Texas Zepher Some questions people ask have real and correct answers which are not subject to judgement. Once someone has answered that question, there is no further need of other people to "continue" to answer it.
Some questions people ask have real and correct answers which are not subject to judgement. Once someone has answered that question, there is no further need of other people to "continue" to answer it.
Some questions may have other answers then those posted that may be a easier way to do things..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Texas Zepher ... Some questions people ask have real and correct answers which are not subject to judgement. Once someone has answered that question, there is no further need of other people to "continue" to answer it.
...
Yeah, but there are fewer of those than many people think.
Enjoy
Paul
Paulus Jas "Don't ask me what I think about you I might give an answer you don't want me to" from a song by Fleetwood Mac Smile Paul
"Don't ask me what I think about you
I might give an answer you don't want me to"
from a song by Fleetwood Mac
Smile
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
This thread should be renamed FORUMERS' Psychology.
BRAKIETexas ZepherThe laws of mathematics and physics. There are many answers to the questions people ask that involves the simple application of Ohm's law, Watt's law, application of geometry, or trigonometry. TZ, By golly I guess I missed the train because in my 55 plus years in the hobby I never had to use those laws..In fact I been out of school for so long I have long forgotten those laws since I never used them in life. A MRC power pack and two wires is basically what I been using even with by old DCC on my past ISLs and few loop layouts..I'm now using a MRC Tech 6 and yup-two wires to the track.. When I do use blocks Atlas selectors gets the job done.Even wiring a Tortoise switch machine doesn't require a degree in electronics. Complication or simplicity.
Texas ZepherThe laws of mathematics and physics. There are many answers to the questions people ask that involves the simple application of Ohm's law, Watt's law, application of geometry, or trigonometry.
A MRC power pack and two wires is basically what I been using even with by old DCC on my past ISLs and few loop layouts..I'm now using a MRC Tech 6 and yup-two wires to the track..
When I do use blocks Atlas selectors gets the job done.Even wiring a Tortoise switch machine doesn't require a degree in electronics.
Complication or simplicity.
A user can only delete his posts if there are no replies. What SUX did was edit his posts to remove content and replaced it with a dash or period.
The moderators deleted the actual threads.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Not all the threads started by SUX are gone. Looks like just his How To's and the rant when he quit.
Threads are locked and removed by admintrators.
His using 3M Command Strips for temporary track placement appears to be a good idea, but the How To was too complicated.
Awhile back another member got mad and quit. He edited all his posts to remove the content.
One thread I started was removed. They sent me a notice and explantaton. I think the administrator was overzealous and disagreed with the reason, but accepted it and went on. Still enjoy this Forum.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
hi gentlemen,
though earlier today i saw one of SUX's threads locked, they are all vanished by now.
Is some-one able to delete his (or her) own threads or is it done by an administrator?
BTW Byron Henderson's remarks about applauding machines came into my mind, as well as an other one:
BRAKIE I always like to show the other side of the coin for consideration since there's always other possible ways of doing things..Nothing in this hobby is cut and dry since there's several correct answers to the same question.. I know of two right now..Your way and my way and both ways are correct.Now add 2 or more pages of opinions then you have the trigger for a discussion. Things can be discussed without being called "trolling".
I always like to show the other side of the coin for consideration since there's always other possible ways of doing things..Nothing in this hobby is cut and dry since there's several correct answers to the same question..
I know of two right now..Your way and my way and both ways are correct.Now add 2 or more pages of opinions then you have the trigger for a discussion.
Things can be discussed without being called "trolling".
eaglescoutHopefully newbies have enough common sense to evaluate the responses they get to their questions. As a newbie a couple of years ago I asked a question about using brass track that started a flame and I got many and numerous responses. I did more research and finally made my decision taking into account all the pros and cons.
Good lord, I'll second that. A few months back I asked a blazingly stupid question, got a well-reasoned and interesting response, and offered a viewpoint that was, without really meaning to be, powerfully offensive to the person trying to help me. He got mad (rightly, I see now in retrospect). Response received, evaluated, idiocy and blame fully mine, point taken, will endeavour to not repeat the mistake. RichHOtrain, If you're still irritated with me, I am sorry.
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
rdgk1se3019 BRAKIEThings can be discussed without being called "trolling" Isn`t that when you stick an electric motor on a bass boat to go fishing?
BRAKIEThings can be discussed without being called "trolling"
Isn`t that when you stick an electric motor on a bass boat to go fishing?
I guess I better take my trolling motor off my 14' jon boat..
Geared Steam BRAKIE Texas ZepherThe laws of mathematics and physics. There are many answers to the questions people ask that involves the simple application of Ohm's law, Watt's law, application of geometry, or trigonometry. TZ, By golly I guess I missed the train because in my 55 plus years in the hobby I never had to use those laws..In fact I been out of school for so long I have long forgotten those laws since I never used them in life. Larry As a brakeman, you never used math? You never counted cars, divided added, multiplied? Physics you say? I bet you knew how far a car would drift with a shove of the loco based on your past experiences of that empty vs loaded boxcar, on the incline/grade/ on certain sidings? I bet you also used geometry, more than your cared to admit or realized. No matter anyways, I heard that Elvis has left the building, to the tune of Frank Sinatra's "My Way" playing in the background.
BRAKIE Texas ZepherThe laws of mathematics and physics. There are many answers to the questions people ask that involves the simple application of Ohm's law, Watt's law, application of geometry, or trigonometry. TZ, By golly I guess I missed the train because in my 55 plus years in the hobby I never had to use those laws..In fact I been out of school for so long I have long forgotten those laws since I never used them in life.
TZ, By golly I guess I missed the train because in my 55 plus years in the hobby I never had to use those laws..In fact I been out of school for so long I have long forgotten those laws since I never used them in life.
As a brakeman, you never used math? You never counted cars, divided added, multiplied?
Physics you say? I bet you knew how far a car would drift with a shove of the loco based on your past experiences of that empty vs loaded boxcar, on the incline/grade/ on certain sidings?
I bet you also used geometry, more than your cared to admit or realized.
No matter anyways, I heard that Elvis has left the building, to the tune of Frank Sinatra's "My Way" playing in the background.
Basic math like counting cars is child play.90% of the time there was no need since you know your cut will be between C&O 456320 and ATSF 765652..See how easy? You pulled the cars and stop to make the cut..Of course that was back in the day..
As far as kicking cars..No math needed at all..Shove 'em west for the kick 6133,that will do 6133! pull the pin and watch the car roll..Next car is ready for the kick..Take 'em east 6133 that will do..6133 Shove 'em west for the kick,that'll do 6133.If the car stop before the joint the next car will shove to the joint if not,we'll push the cars to the joint.
Doing it your way and you might switch 90 cars in 12 hours.
Doing it the way I was taught a heads up crew could flat switch 300-400 cars in 12 hours..
Simple as pie and twice as easy..
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
BRAKIEDSchmittTexas Zepher I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect.Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by?.
DSchmittTexas Zepher I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect.
Texas Zepher I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.
Doughless Larry, Just for your records, I like ISL's, sectional track, and prefer DC control with few electrical complications. My ISL is about 35 feet long, with two loops at each end for continuous running for simple display. It may not look like the typical switching layout, but it operates the same. The size presents some issues that aren't typically found in layouts with such a simplistic operating scheme, so I have gotten use to needing to forge my own path to accomplish some things. Conventional solutions that are typically offered for a layout of my size end up being way overkill for my situation, because the operation is different than normal. I have about 100 feet of track. Probably 25 percent is sectional for various reasons that suit me. But that is for another thread..
Larry,
Just for your records, I like ISL's, sectional track, and prefer DC control with few electrical complications. My ISL is about 35 feet long, with two loops at each end for continuous running for simple display. It may not look like the typical switching layout, but it operates the same. The size presents some issues that aren't typically found in layouts with such a simplistic operating scheme, so I have gotten use to needing to forge my own path to accomplish some things. Conventional solutions that are typically offered for a layout of my size end up being way overkill for my situation, because the operation is different than normal.
I have about 100 feet of track. Probably 25 percent is sectional for various reasons that suit me.
But that is for another thread..
And...DC is much less expensive to implement. I may have added way too many blocks in my 1x4 N-scale layout, but I wanted future flexibility. I have a companion 1x4 staging yard for later use.
Keeping with the spirit of this thread, is the trend to move everything towards DCC?
Tim
BRAKIE Geared Steam It's because things has already been figured out, don't waste time or resources reinventing the wheel. I wonder where we would be today if the wheel wasn't reinvented by those that pushed old ideas? Take a close look there's nothing in the hobby that hasn't already been done. We already had freight and passenger cars and the locomotives to pull them. Somebody reinvented the wheel by adding spokes(details).. We already knew how to build mountains but,the wheel was reinvented using foam. We already had sectional track yet,it was reinvented with plastic roadbed.. Even DCC wouldn't be here if the wheel wasn't reinvented..We ran trains using block system and did quite well.
Geared Steam It's because things has already been figured out, don't waste time or resources reinventing the wheel.
It's because things has already been figured out, don't waste time or resources reinventing the wheel.
I wonder where we would be today if the wheel wasn't reinvented by those that pushed old ideas?
Take a close look there's nothing in the hobby that hasn't already been done.
We already had freight and passenger cars and the locomotives to pull them.
Somebody reinvented the wheel by adding spokes(details)..
We already knew how to build mountains but,the wheel was reinvented using foam.
We already had sectional track yet,it was reinvented with plastic roadbed..
Even DCC wouldn't be here if the wheel wasn't reinvented..We ran trains using block system and did quite well.
Uh yea, okay, interesting.
Let me use your angle if I may, Just because someone is doing something different than everyone else doesn't make it a good idea. There must be some knowledge and experience to >improve< on what there already is. Key word here.....>improve<
So I want go ahead and make square wheels because the round ones are just too darn expensive. Would you hop on board that build thread too?
(maybe I should put in disclaimer so no one can sue me first?)
Whatever Larry....whatever...
- Douglas
Doughless But if a person posts a response with the intent of picking a fight, I consider that trolling. Sometimes in a discussion with differing opinions, you can tell the difference between a response that is sincere, and one that has a hidden purpose.
But if a person posts a response with the intent of picking a fight, I consider that trolling. Sometimes in a discussion with differing opinions, you can tell the difference between a response that is sincere, and one that has a hidden purpose.
Agreed..I've seen both types and have in times pass been accused of trolling only because my opinion was the other side of the coin that is seldom mention..Of course some of my thoughts goes against the grain but,I just happen to know they work and if it didn't I would never mention it.
I won't answer DCC or electrical questions because I know just enough about DCC to get what I need done..Electrial..Want advice on wiring a Atlas selector or Atlas switch controller? That's where my electrical knowledge bus stops and that's all I need to know.I can run a bus and drop feeders but,I prefer controllers for block wiring-1 wire to each block..Simple no?
My DCC wiring been 2 wires to the track .That works quite well for small ISLs and probably 4x8' layouts.
BRAKIE Doughless I think some people enjoy the tug of war. Sometimes, when you step back and look at things in total, you can see that their replies and tone can suggest they are even cleverly disguising a cordial trolling for conflict. Those threads tend to linger because the trolling goes undetected compared to those that are more direct and less cordial. I always like to show the other side of the coin for consideration since there's always other possible ways of doing things..Nothing in this hobby is cut and dry since there's several correct answers to the same question.. I know of two right now..Your way and my way and both ways are correct.Now add 2 or more pages of opinions then you have the trigger for a discussion. Things can be discussed without being called "trolling".
Doughless I think some people enjoy the tug of war. Sometimes, when you step back and look at things in total, you can see that their replies and tone can suggest they are even cleverly disguising a cordial trolling for conflict. Those threads tend to linger because the trolling goes undetected compared to those that are more direct and less cordial.
I think some people enjoy the tug of war.
Sometimes, when you step back and look at things in total, you can see that their replies and tone can suggest they are even cleverly disguising a cordial trolling for conflict.
Those threads tend to linger because the trolling goes undetected compared to those that are more direct and less cordial.
Larry, I understand that conflict and differences of opinion is not considered trolling.
eaglescoutNow if they take the first answer they get they will have a 50/50 chance of it being right or at least solving the problem without doing major damage.
Or they can go to you tube and watch a video on how its done in less time it takes to do a topic and wait on the replies and the difference of opinions it brings.
The newbie has options that has never been available before and I think they may be a tad smarter then ever before.
I've had non modeling teenagers during the week of the fair ask about DCC and how sound works..
How did they find out?
When I ask that question I was told "I saw it on you tube".
So,you tube may be a ambassador for our hobby.
Hopefully newbies have enough common sense to evaluate the responses they get to their questions. As a newbie a couple of years ago I asked a question about using brass track that started a flame and I got many and numerous responses. I did more research and finally made my decision taking into account all the pros and cons.
The post that get me is someone who is working on their layout on a particular problem and want the answer right now so they can continue. Now if they take the first answer they get they will have a 50/50 chance of it being right or at least solving the problem without doing major damage. If they wait a day or two and evaluate all the responses they may have a much better chance of choosing the best solution.
eaglescout I am not griping on complaining. I'm just saying it is amazing the time we will spend replying to something we will never utilize but another poster wants some legitimate feedback on an aspect of the hobby many might use and there are only a half dozen replies. Maybe it is similar to why folks rubber neck at accident scenes and the news is full of mostly bad news. Our base instinct is towards the bad and negative rather than the good and positive.
I am not griping on complaining. I'm just saying it is amazing the time we will spend replying to something we will never utilize but another poster wants some legitimate feedback on an aspect of the hobby many might use and there are only a half dozen replies. Maybe it is similar to why folks rubber neck at accident scenes and the news is full of mostly bad news. Our base instinct is towards the bad and negative rather than the good and positive.
A large part of it is rubbernecking.
A legitimate "how do I...." post can often get a comprehensive set of advice in a few answers. The number of answers is no gaurantee of quality. The number of views is often indicitive of the general interest of the subject or how dramatic the title is.
Another factor is how the OP interacts with the people who post. Most "how do I..." threads, the OP is looking for feedback and it happy to get answers. The OP may post follow up questions but in most cases will not get into a disagreement with the responders. The people answering the question are more likely to get into an arguement with each other as they offer competeing or contradictory answers. Most of that is caused when the original question is very general or vague, allowing a wide range of answers. A very direct question gets a very direct answer. One caution is that i quite often see a question answered with one most common answer (that covers 99% of the circumstances) followed by 20 edge case answers that while technically "correct", are atypical of what normally happens (falling into the remaining 1%).
The "What I did..." posts are a different animal. The poster isn't asking directly for feedback. The phenomenon regarding the number of replies is directly related to how the OP deals with feedback, especially suggestions to modify or improve the process. If the feedback is recieved with minimal controversy, the thread either tends to have fewer replies or can morph into a bigger discussion on the alternatives. If the feedback isn't recieved well (what happened in the original SUX thread) it can become antagonistic and spiral into a less useful discussions. The resulting column of smoke and circling vultures from the wreckage attracts curious people.
In answering a "what I did..." thread one has to weigh one's personal experience with what is being done. I've been modeling for over 40 years. I've made a ton of mistakes. Is it wrong to offer advice on what I've done wrong or what I've found to work better? That gets to the "reinventing the wheel" dicussion. It also is related to the self esteem, everybody's a winner approach. Some people will weather a car where it looks like they dipped it in a bucket of mud. Is it better to give the modeler 20 pats on the back and "Good job!" posts or to tell them it looks like they dipped the car in the mud and here's some ideas how they can try it next time? The high self-esteem crowd can get pretty offended pretty quick.
In any thread, if one of the posters gets all puffed up and takes a position that is less defensible or obviously out on a limb, it becomes more tempting to poke the "offended" poster with a stick to get a reaction, just for the sport of it. Childish? Yes. Do we still do it? You betcha. (And I freely admit I am as guilty as anybody else). Some of the posts to the various sectional track on cork threads are just that, poking the OP with a stick to get a reaction.
cv_acrso God help the poor newbie who's trying to figure out what this thing is and gets 5 completely different answers all from people who appear to be quite sure what it is.)
I do my utmost to handle newbies with kid gloves..
As a example.
What is this engine?
My simple reply will be ( say) That's a GP38-2-I also mention railroaders must not know either since they put the locomotive type under the number on the cab..They usually get a chuckle out of that..I leave off the advanced-phase 3 with blah,blah,blah..The phase type and detail can come later-its a milk now and meat later thing.
I have notice a lot of newbies already have the basic understanding about building a simple 4x8 layout with 2 or 3 sidings since most train sets includes some form of track plan as a sales pitch for the purchase of more track and switches..
My brother in law wanted DCC from the start since he read about in MR and I showed him Bachmann's DCC videos on you tube since it covered the basics.I explain the basic CV settings.I did steer him toward a Digitrax Zephyr though.
Today's newbie can get volumes of information from you tube from track laying to decoder install and may never find the need to join a forum,buy MR,RMC or a how to modeling book..
BRAKIE DSchmittI am considering building a 40"x76" N scale layout That's a good side layout and -if my math isn't off-you should have 18" curves which is a very wide curve and 80' cars should look rather nice.. I'm not sure if I would want to body mount the couplers on those 80' cars though..Many would but,I'm gun shy when it comes to body mounting couplers on 80' and longer cars regardless of scale but,that's my old school thinking for HO curves less then 30-36" and 24"-26" curves in N.. I have modeled in both scales and still like N even though I gave N up last fall for several reasons.
DSchmittI am considering building a 40"x76" N scale layout
That's a good side layout and -if my math isn't off-you should have 18" curves which is a very wide curve and 80' cars should look rather nice..
I'm not sure if I would want to body mount the couplers on those 80' cars though..Many would but,I'm gun shy when it comes to body mounting couplers on 80' and longer cars regardless of scale but,that's my old school thinking for HO curves less then 30-36" and 24"-26" curves in N..
I have modeled in both scales and still like N even though I gave N up last fall for several reasons.
The original HO 4x8 plan is a folded dogbone with a mix of 15" and 18" radius. The tightest mainline radius on my N scale version would be a 13" although most of the curves are larger. The 13" radius is pushing it as far as operating N scale 80' foot cars but I hope I can make it work. If it does't work, I will be still be satisfied with 40'-50' cars.
BRAKIE DSchmitt Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer. So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect. Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by? Just because you or I may think the answer is wrong may not make it so if we lack general all around knowledge and that type of knowledge doesn't come by a article or book written by a "expert" but,must come from first hand knowledge based on hands on experience.
DSchmitt Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer. So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect.
Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.
[ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.
Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by?
Just because you or I may think the answer is wrong may not make it so if we lack general all around knowledge and that type of knowledge doesn't come by a article or book written by a "expert" but,must come from first hand knowledge based on hands on experience.
Depends what the question is, Brakie. Some questions might not have a "wrong" answer, or at least not a single "right" answer.
However some questions most definitely do have a single right answer (example: show a picture of an engine, wondering "what kind of engine is this?"). I've seen many cases of this sort of thing (all over the place, not just here) where the question will be answered correctly, and in detail, and yet 10 posts futher down the line some moron is still throwing out what is obviously no more than a random guess because it's so completely wrong. (Although the guessing poster makes no indication that he doesn't really know what he's talking about, so God help the poor newbie who's trying to figure out what this thing is and gets 5 completely different answers all from people who appear to be quite sure what it is.)
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog