Just looked at the first page of General Discussions and Layout Building and saw generally 0-20 replies on many topics I might actually employ on my layout. On the much replied to "How to Series. . . there are over 100 replies to the first, 50 to the second and a just now third segment recently posted. I would expect that maybe a precious few viewers would ever employ such a method yet hundreds might use other modeling methods discussed in far less replied to posts.
I am not griping on complaining. I'm just saying it is amazing the time we will spend replying to something we will never utilize but another poster wants some legitimate feedback on an aspect of the hobby many might use and there are only a half dozen replies. Maybe it is similar to why folks rubber neck at accident scenes and the news is full of mostly bad news. Our base instinct is towards the bad and negative rather than the good and positive.
I feel much better now that I blew off some steam and will spend the remainder of the evening looking at the less replied to posts.
Well, speaking just for me, I've read and posted on two of the three "How To" threads because they're just so darn amusing. I suppose it's a combination of the way the OP chooses to present the topics and himself, coupled with how others have responded. Maybe I shouldn't find those topics so entertaining, but I do and apparently so do many others.
As far as those fewer replies threads, if I don't think I have anything more to contribute than is already there, I don't reply.
Mark P.
Website: http://www.thecbandqinwyoming.comVideos: https://www.youtube.com/user/mabrunton
I found those "how to" topics rather interesting seeing the methods dates back to the 50s.
However..
I have used sectional track on several 6' ISLs over the years because I found that was the better choice since there would be a lot of cutting and fitting with the same amount of rail joints if I used flex trax..
I use sectional track for fillers on larger ISLs with zero problems.
Think of this Atlas still make sectional "snap" track,Kato,Atlas and Bachmann makes the sectional track with road bed so,somebody is using it. or it would be dropped from their product line.
So,one man's thoughts is usable by others.
This is what forums are for.
As far as the low count replies some times the question has been answered or I'm not sure of the answer.Somes the answer could be found with a simple .com and click to a manufacturers web page.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I look at most of the threads posted (unless they name a product or process I don't use) and reply to quite a few. If somebody is showing a better way to do something or suggesting an idea which I find useful, I'll acknowledge that if I can do so without simply saying, "Me, too." If someone is handing down Stone Tablets from Zion, I may reach for my hammer and chisel, especially if they simultaneously trash something I have been doing for a half-century or so. The same goes for the posts announcing the reinvention of the square wheel. Knocking a few chips off the corners might help it roll better.
If I can't contribute to the topic, whether with hard information, a reality check or a bit of humor, I bite my tongue and sit on my fingers.
Note that one person's bad news may be another person's good news.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
BruntonAs far as those fewer replies threads, if I don't think I have anything more to contribute than is already there, I don't reply.
Yep, I quickly ran out of original material. There's a reason why business refer to things like "best practices"
It's because things has already been figured out, don't waste time or resources reinventing the wheel.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam It's because things has already been figured out, don't waste time or resources reinventing the wheel.
I wonder where we would be today if the wheel wasn't reinvented by those that pushed old ideas?
Take a close look there's nothing in the hobby that hasn't already been done.
We already had freight and passenger cars and the locomotives to pull them.
Somebody reinvented the wheel by adding spokes(details)..
We already knew how to build mountains but,the wheel was reinvented using foam.
We already had sectional track yet,it was reinvented with plastic roadbed..
Even DCC wouldn't be here if the wheel wasn't reinvented..We ran trains using block system and did quite well.
For reasons perhaps best understood by psychologists there are certain topics that some people seem to get really upset over - even feel really threatened by. Using sectional track seems to be one of these.
Some others are:
Building a 4x8 layout.
Some of the O scale people get really bent over a track gauge of 1.25" (instead of 1.17").
Some years back S scale felt they had to change from .875 gauge to .883 gauge - that's 8 thousands of an inch.
Using code 100 in HO scale
Not weathering.
RTR
For example - ask a question about building trees for your 4x8 layout and at least a dozen people will tell you why you shouldn't be building a 4x8 layout. They apparently never see that the question was about trees.
It's a funny old world.
Enjoy
Paul
IRONROOSTERThey apparently never see that the question was about trees.
Good point..Maybe they can't see the trees because of that 4x8'?
Your other points are well taken but,boils down to choice the modeler must make based on his/her needs.
I wasn't going to mention this but,I think it fits.
On another 1 x 6' ISL I used 2 snap switches as a crossover..It worked fine but,I don't recommend it because that "S" curve between the switches look like a Tooterville trolley crossover--whew!
Thankfully I was using a Mantua 0-6-0T I built from a kit and 36' MDC cars.
eaglescout I would expect that maybe a precious few viewers would ever employ such a method yet hundreds might use other modeling methods discussed in far less replied to posts.
Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.
[ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer.
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
DSchmitt Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer. So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect.
Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by?
Just because you or I may think the answer is wrong may not make it so if we lack general all around knowledge and that type of knowledge doesn't come by a article or book written by a "expert" but,must come from first hand knowledge based on hands on experience.
Our hobby is so simple a kid or newbie can build a simple 4x8' layout and enjoy it for years.
BRAKIE Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by? Just because you or I may think the answer is wrong may not make it so if we lack general all around knowledge and that type of knowledge doesn't come by a article or book written by a "expert" but,must come from first hand knowledge based on hands on experience. Our hobby is so simple a kid or newbie can build a simple 4x8' layout and enjoy it for years.
Actually there are some fairly rigid rules and guidelines although they evolve and are not set in stone. The NMRA standards are one (but not the only) example. Before they developed their standards and manufactures largely accepted them very few products from different companys would play well together.
What you say is true about modeling techinques, materials, even what elements make a good track plan and philosphy of running/operating model trains. Before one strikes out on their own it is a good idea to know what the "experts" say and understand their reasoning. They can steer one toward good practices and away from things that really won't work. One has a better chace if succeeding if they have some idea of what has worked for others. Determining who really is an "expert" is often difficult.
I have seen numerous cases where there are really correct and incorrect answers especially about the prototype (answers about prototype locomotioves and cars are prime examples) , and also about model railroad products.
To the OP..................
AMEN !
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
DSchmitt Before one strikes out on their own it is a good idea to know what the "experts" say and understand their reasoning. They can steer one toward good practices and away from things that really won't work. One has a better chace if succeeding if they have some idea of what has worked for others. Determining who really is an "expert" is often difficult.
Again looking at the very basics of the hobby anybody can build a simple 4x8' layout without advice from "experts"(which begs the question who made them a "expert"?) so,again there is no real need to complicate the hobby by listening to those so called "experts" that may flip flop on their teachings.
I found several truths about this hobby over the last 55 plus years I've been in the hobby and there's two that stand out..This hobby is as complicated or as simple as you want it.
I agree I seen some railroader wanna bes and operation "experts" answers on a switching that required several unneeded moves.I seen some answers that would get the conductor and engineer fired.
I've seen some modeling replies so complicated I had to laugh.
Speaking for myself and my replies in the "How to series..........
I am not 100% certain I understand exactly what problem Sux is trying to solve. Most of my comments are aimed at figuring out the problem that requires his solution. I assume his problem is unique, since he is not using conventional methods, and I'm trying to disect what that uniqueness is.
So far...the best that I've come up with is that he doesn't want seams in his grass mat scenery, but he hasn't acknowledged that drives his method.
As far as the number of posts.......
I think the reason there are so many replies is that his basic concept is very simple. Tracing, cutting, and gluing really doesn't go much beyond 4th grade art class; so almost everone already understands what he is doing. Many people understanding a topic leads to many replies, both positive and negative.
Contrast that with the more specific posts you feel lack replies, and it may just be a function of there not being that many folks who feel confident about their knowledge of the topic to offer a comment, so the thread receives few replies.
- Douglas
I'm amused that people will reply to a thread that originated in 2008, and the last post was in 2010.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
I'll agree folks reply to questions they have the most experience and interest in but the "flaming posts" tend to attract those that like to see a good argument keep going and won't allow others to have a differing opinion.
My preacher once told me the best way to end a confrontation as well as a tug-o-war is to let go of the rope.
eaglescout I'll agree folks reply to questions they have the most experience and interest in but the "flaming posts" tend to attract those that like to see a good argument keep going and won't allow others to have a differing opinion. My preacher once told me the best way to end a confrontation as well as a tug-o-war is to let go of the rope.
There you have a point, combining knowledge and interest with passion and then you get your "flaming posts". And those subjects are pretty well identifiable, such as Internet sales vs LHS, 4x8 layout, DCC vs DC, Sound vs NonSound, death of our hobby, how to keep the hobby growing,etc.
I have not read any of the How To posts but I'm sure they will help some. Keep in mind that at any point in time there are usually only 30 to 50 people online here. Several are very helpful and hopefully that will increase the number of those actively online.
I agree with those who say this hobby can be as hard or easy as you want it. I also agree that there are some legit right/wrong answers and I don't like to post when my posting adds little. Only so much time in a day.
Richard
Medina1128 DSchmitt Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer. So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect. I'm amused that people will reply to a thread that originated in 2008, and the last post was in 2010.
And yet some people get all bent out of shape because the new to model railroading person did not use the search function. It seems like they cannot win.
BRAKIE Again looking at the very basics of the hobby anybody can build a simple 4x8' layout without advice from "experts
Again looking at the very basics of the hobby anybody can build a simple 4x8' layout without advice from "experts
Actually many newbe's do start out with advice from one or more "experts" For instance my first serious HO modeling started in the very early 1960's with with Atlas sectional track and Atlas plan books (many of the plans 4x8 or smaller) written by John Armstrong. Many Model Railroaders still start with them or with published plans by other "experts". Armstrong's Atllas plans are a good start and have the advantage over many other published plans of being buildable.
While there are many who many who strongly advocate against the 4x8 footprint, there have been many excellent 4x8's built in the past, being built currently, and many will be built in the future. It is often said that the 4x8 results in poor space utilization, but depending on the space available this is not always true.
I am considering building a 40"x76" N scale layout (accessable from 3 sides) to fit on the upper bunk of a bunk bed in a 12x12 room. Because of book/display shelves on 3 walls and a work table, an along the walls plan is not feasible. The plan is based on 4x8 HO plan from a 1950's Boys Life magazine. Based on a much posted rule of thumb I should be able to run 80' cars, although appearnce will suffer because of the tight curves.
Eric97123 And yet some people get all bent out of shape because the new to model railroading person did not use the search function. It seems like they cannot win.
I have found much useful information and learned many interestng things because they posted their questions instead of using the search function. .
DSchmittI am considering building a 40"x76" N scale layout
That's a good side layout and -if my math isn't off-you should have 18" curves which is a very wide curve and 80' cars should look rather nice..
I'm not sure if I would want to body mount the couplers on those 80' cars though..Many would but,I'm gun shy when it comes to body mounting couplers on 80' and longer cars regardless of scale but,that's my old school thinking for HO curves less then 30-36" and 24"-26" curves in N..
I have modeled in both scales and still like N even though I gave N up last fall for several reasons.
Fairly new to this forum and have used the search function with mixed results. The problem with most forums, regardless of the subject, is thread "creep". That is, invariably the original intent of the OP tends to get lost after numerous replies. This sometimes makes searches rather difficult. With the use of on-line "how to" videos most of my question can be easily answered not just by text, but by actual visual demonstrations. This was basically not available back in the 1970s and 1980s unless one purchased the fleetingly available VHS or DVDs.
I seen outstanding 4x8 layouts. This is what sustains the hobby as it entices new blood infused into the community. Eventually some will either expand or rebuild larger layouts depending on available space and most importantly the probability of completing a larger layout.
Tim
Medina1128I'm amused that people will reply to a thread that originated in 2008, and the last post was in 2010.
Timh Fairly new to this forum and have used the search function with mixed results. The problem with most forums, regardless of the subject, is thread "creep". That is, invariably the original intent of the OP tends to get lost after numerous replies. This sometimes makes searches rather difficult. With the use of on-line "how to" videos most of my question can be easily answered not just by text, but by actual visual demonstrations. This was basically not available back in the 1970s and 1980s unless one purchased the fleetingly available VHS or DVDs. Tim
Just like the advise you get here, be careful of the youtube experts. My daughter is one for make up and I think she has 10,000 followers.
BRAKIE DSchmitt Texas Zepher [ I am actually amused sometimes that after a question has been answered very well that people will still continue to answer. So am I, and often the additional answers are incorrect. Since our hobby has no hard set rules then by whose standards do we judge a answer by? Just because you or I may think the answer is wrong may not make it so if we lack general all around knowledge and that type of knowledge doesn't come by a article or book written by a "expert" but,must come from first hand knowledge based on hands on experience.
Depends what the question is, Brakie. Some questions might not have a "wrong" answer, or at least not a single "right" answer.
However some questions most definitely do have a single right answer (example: show a picture of an engine, wondering "what kind of engine is this?"). I've seen many cases of this sort of thing (all over the place, not just here) where the question will be answered correctly, and in detail, and yet 10 posts futher down the line some moron is still throwing out what is obviously no more than a random guess because it's so completely wrong. (Although the guessing poster makes no indication that he doesn't really know what he's talking about, so God help the poor newbie who's trying to figure out what this thing is and gets 5 completely different answers all from people who appear to be quite sure what it is.)
Chris van der Heide
My Algoma Central Railway Modeling Blog
BRAKIE DSchmittI am considering building a 40"x76" N scale layout That's a good side layout and -if my math isn't off-you should have 18" curves which is a very wide curve and 80' cars should look rather nice.. I'm not sure if I would want to body mount the couplers on those 80' cars though..Many would but,I'm gun shy when it comes to body mounting couplers on 80' and longer cars regardless of scale but,that's my old school thinking for HO curves less then 30-36" and 24"-26" curves in N.. I have modeled in both scales and still like N even though I gave N up last fall for several reasons.
The original HO 4x8 plan is a folded dogbone with a mix of 15" and 18" radius. The tightest mainline radius on my N scale version would be a 13" although most of the curves are larger. The 13" radius is pushing it as far as operating N scale 80' foot cars but I hope I can make it work. If it does't work, I will be still be satisfied with 40'-50' cars.
cv_acrso God help the poor newbie who's trying to figure out what this thing is and gets 5 completely different answers all from people who appear to be quite sure what it is.)
I do my utmost to handle newbies with kid gloves..
As a example.
What is this engine?
My simple reply will be ( say) That's a GP38-2-I also mention railroaders must not know either since they put the locomotive type under the number on the cab..They usually get a chuckle out of that..I leave off the advanced-phase 3 with blah,blah,blah..The phase type and detail can come later-its a milk now and meat later thing.
I have notice a lot of newbies already have the basic understanding about building a simple 4x8 layout with 2 or 3 sidings since most train sets includes some form of track plan as a sales pitch for the purchase of more track and switches..
My brother in law wanted DCC from the start since he read about in MR and I showed him Bachmann's DCC videos on you tube since it covered the basics.I explain the basic CV settings.I did steer him toward a Digitrax Zephyr though.
Today's newbie can get volumes of information from you tube from track laying to decoder install and may never find the need to join a forum,buy MR,RMC or a how to modeling book..
eaglescout I am not griping on complaining. I'm just saying it is amazing the time we will spend replying to something we will never utilize but another poster wants some legitimate feedback on an aspect of the hobby many might use and there are only a half dozen replies. Maybe it is similar to why folks rubber neck at accident scenes and the news is full of mostly bad news. Our base instinct is towards the bad and negative rather than the good and positive.
A large part of it is rubbernecking.
A legitimate "how do I...." post can often get a comprehensive set of advice in a few answers. The number of answers is no gaurantee of quality. The number of views is often indicitive of the general interest of the subject or how dramatic the title is.
Another factor is how the OP interacts with the people who post. Most "how do I..." threads, the OP is looking for feedback and it happy to get answers. The OP may post follow up questions but in most cases will not get into a disagreement with the responders. The people answering the question are more likely to get into an arguement with each other as they offer competeing or contradictory answers. Most of that is caused when the original question is very general or vague, allowing a wide range of answers. A very direct question gets a very direct answer. One caution is that i quite often see a question answered with one most common answer (that covers 99% of the circumstances) followed by 20 edge case answers that while technically "correct", are atypical of what normally happens (falling into the remaining 1%).
The "What I did..." posts are a different animal. The poster isn't asking directly for feedback. The phenomenon regarding the number of replies is directly related to how the OP deals with feedback, especially suggestions to modify or improve the process. If the feedback is recieved with minimal controversy, the thread either tends to have fewer replies or can morph into a bigger discussion on the alternatives. If the feedback isn't recieved well (what happened in the original SUX thread) it can become antagonistic and spiral into a less useful discussions. The resulting column of smoke and circling vultures from the wreckage attracts curious people.
In answering a "what I did..." thread one has to weigh one's personal experience with what is being done. I've been modeling for over 40 years. I've made a ton of mistakes. Is it wrong to offer advice on what I've done wrong or what I've found to work better? That gets to the "reinventing the wheel" dicussion. It also is related to the self esteem, everybody's a winner approach. Some people will weather a car where it looks like they dipped it in a bucket of mud. Is it better to give the modeler 20 pats on the back and "Good job!" posts or to tell them it looks like they dipped the car in the mud and here's some ideas how they can try it next time? The high self-esteem crowd can get pretty offended pretty quick.
In any thread, if one of the posters gets all puffed up and takes a position that is less defensible or obviously out on a limb, it becomes more tempting to poke the "offended" poster with a stick to get a reaction, just for the sport of it. Childish? Yes. Do we still do it? You betcha. (And I freely admit I am as guilty as anybody else). Some of the posts to the various sectional track on cork threads are just that, poking the OP with a stick to get a reaction.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
Hopefully newbies have enough common sense to evaluate the responses they get to their questions. As a newbie a couple of years ago I asked a question about using brass track that started a flame and I got many and numerous responses. I did more research and finally made my decision taking into account all the pros and cons.
The post that get me is someone who is working on their layout on a particular problem and want the answer right now so they can continue. Now if they take the first answer they get they will have a 50/50 chance of it being right or at least solving the problem without doing major damage. If they wait a day or two and evaluate all the responses they may have a much better chance of choosing the best solution.