My local LHS still has 3 or 4 Hobbytown chassis's, they look to be "old new stock" from an LHS that closed.
I know one was for a SD40-2. If anyone is interested PM me and I will give you their phone number.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
Geared Steam NP2626Manufacturing is capable of fantastic things, tight tolerances and fantastic speed, that has never been better! So, what gives? We are talking about toys and a hobby, the bean counters know what the breaking point is, and we demand affordability in our models. NP2626 I built many Athearn, MDC Roundhouse, Bowser and Mantua kits. The quality of these "kit" locomotives far exceeds the quality of the RTR locomotives available today You apparently have never built an MDC Shay, Climax or Boxcab kit. Locos today, for the price we pay, are better than ever, in detail, running characteristics, everything. No concerns here, most of my locos have a lifetime warranty, that is what it is for. If you get a problem, return the problem.
NP2626Manufacturing is capable of fantastic things, tight tolerances and fantastic speed, that has never been better! So, what gives?
We are talking about toys and a hobby, the bean counters know what the breaking point is, and we demand affordability in our models.
NP2626 I built many Athearn, MDC Roundhouse, Bowser and Mantua kits. The quality of these "kit" locomotives far exceeds the quality of the RTR locomotives available today
You apparently have never built an MDC Shay, Climax or Boxcab kit.
Locos today, for the price we pay, are better than ever, in detail, running characteristics, everything.
No concerns here, most of my locos have a lifetime warranty, that is what it is for.
If you get a problem, return the problem.
Solid, profitable, sales always makes the "Bean Counter" happy. Sales of defective product, causing returns and warranty work does not and if the "Bean Counter" stays unhappy, it shouldn't be too long before the company fails!
Nope, never built the Shay, understood it had its' problems, so stayed away. Read some articles on modifying it, to make it run better and thought about doing so; but, never did.
Obviously you don't do any further work your locos (add decoders, sound systems, add engine crew, weather, add coal and lettering) as if you did, throwing them back in the box and sending in for replacement would be somewhat more painful.
I'm glad that some of you are happy with the current offerings of locomotives! However, reading over the posts here, puts you in the minority.
As far as this thread eventually being locked, wouldn't that be a sad state of affairs, not being able to voice an opinion on the products available to the model railroader, today?
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Lucky me, I spent today at the train show with the grandson rather than reading this stuff again.
And I bought more of that China made junk everybody complains about.
Andre is right, you get what yo pay for, but with just a little work, (way less work than building a Hobbytown or Bowser kit) all my junky Spectrums and Proto2000's run just great.
And the "more expensive" brands of junk (like BLI/PCM) have given me more trouble than the "cheap" ones like Bachmann.
My view, which I will repeat for the 435th time, it is hard to judge whole product lines, they all make some duds, they all make some winners.
I listen to so many on here complain about recent production Athearn locos, and wonder what is up with that? All my Athearn locos, even new ones, run great - BUT, because of my modeled era and interests, I only have Athearn Genesis F units and a few RS-3's. The rest of it is of no interest.
My large fleet of Bachmann runs great, but I don't have some that I know are problematic - the K4, etc.
I also have a large fleet of Proto2000, mostly older, and I will take that over most of the brass diesels I have seen or owned in my 43 years of model trains any day of the week.
Well I just added two more of those Spectrum junkers to the steam fleet today. Say what you will, they are inexpensive and generally run well. Sometimes they need a little fix here and there, at these prices that's OK.
I picked up an N&W J for $63 and a 2-10-2 for $65.
Happy complaining guys, I'm headed to the train room to work on some kit bashing on these RTR wonders.
Sheldon
I volunteer to fix HO locomotives for a local railroad museum's layout. They get lots of hours on them in a hurry. Usually there are two or three a month that need some work, mostly four axle power from various makes. To me, quality is a drive that 1; runs a long time. 2; is easy to fix. and 3; parts are readily available.
Here are my opinions:
1. The last of the Athearn blue box kits were probably the best they or anyone made for the above criteria. The drives are bulletproof, the chassis falls apart easily, and parts were readily available. Any moving part on the locomotive could be renewed / replaced with no problem, even using junker used Athearns from shows. Many of the parts were common for 30 or more years of production. With some tuning, current draw can be brought down to around 1/4 amp.
Also the blue box kits have metal handrailings that don't bend and break if you look at them crooked.
2. Athearn ready to run is probably next. Most of the parts are compatable with or can be replaced by blue box parts. There are two weak areas, both having to do with the drives. The new plastic worm gears (the red ones) are very soft and subject to deterioration even from plastic compatible lubricants. The white plastic and especially the brass worms were much better. They are all interchangable.
The second is the drive shaft between the flywheels and truck towers. The very small diameter driveshaft looks flimsy but we haven't had to replace a broken one yet. The hexagon thing on the drive end is hard to lubricate and seems to wear out. It's easy to replace but a pain to have to do so. The old drives and universals were much better. This is one part I can't rig up a substitute or rebuild. The best I can do if I can't get an exact replacement part is take a long one and cut it shorter, splicing it with some plastic tubing.
I like the new machined wheels compared to the old sintered wheels. They collect much less dirt.
I have never liked the plastic handrailings.
3. P2K. Parts are usually not directly available, but many are directly compatable with corresponding Athearn parts. The splitting gears were a problem but this seems to have gone away on newer locomotives. Athearn gears are a drop in replacement. The biggest thing is getting at the parts through all the weights and so on, along with all the wires strung all over the place.
4. Everyone else. Unless I'm missing something can motors usually don't allow the brushes to be replaced and the motor has to be trashed when the brushes wear out. Drive parts aren't compatible with anything and replacing those parts is difficult at best. When one of these goes bad, we replace it with a chassis made from Athearn parts. Many times there is an Athearn chassis that is almost drop on compatible. The Atlas and Bachman Spectrum locomotives run beautifully but eventually they wear out and are difficult to fix.
Walthers Trainman also runs well new and they are cheap enough to buy an extra to cannabilize it.
5. Finally with the exception of some older Mehano IHC locomotives, I haven't seen a steam locomotive yet that equals the reliability of even the cheapest diesel. Sort of like the real thing.
What's really funny is that my cheap chinese Bachmanns are more reliable than my american Athearn BB diesels. The Bachmanns just keep on going, smooth as can be, but those Athearns have needed more maintenance and tune-ups than anything else I own! Except my Genesis 2-8-2 (one of Athearn's most failure prone engines). That thing is smooth as silk, and just keeps on going, and going, and going...
The main problem for split gears is materials that were not aged properly, pressed on too tight a shaft, or were still too warm when pressed on. I've even had a thick Bowser steam engine gear split before! So, it doesn't matter where it's made. What matters is if who makes it did it right.
_________________________________________________________________
I did a rebuild on a RTR today i used the guts of a old athearn BB fits like a glove the only dilema is the flywheels you have to use old flywheel desighn
IRONROOSTER The problem is not just model trains, it's all products that are out sourced overseas. The importer has to do quality inspection and reject products that are not right. The problem with China and other places is that they lack experience and expertise. Sure they're cheap, but they are learning on our dime. Historically, cheap overseas production went first to Japan, later Korea and Taiwan, now it goes to China and lately Vietnam and others. Each time the country starts out with low prices and quality issues. Over time the workforce becomes educated, manufacturing expertise develops, quality rises, but so do prices. Many companies move to the next cheap place. Meanwhile these countries use their new knowledge and experience to develop their own companies which in many cases have a reputation for quality goods. And they now compete in the world market. Many model railroad products for over 20 years now have followed the move to cheaper places strategy. But this requires more diligence on their part and a willingness to not accept shoddy work - some do, some don't. Some don't care as long as it is cheap. Since no one does a Consumer Reports type test of model railroad products, all we have is word of mouth and personal experience. Paul
The problem is not just model trains, it's all products that are out sourced overseas.
The importer has to do quality inspection and reject products that are not right.
The problem with China and other places is that they lack experience and expertise. Sure they're cheap, but they are learning on our dime. Historically, cheap overseas production went first to Japan, later Korea and Taiwan, now it goes to China and lately Vietnam and others. Each time the country starts out with low prices and quality issues. Over time the workforce becomes educated, manufacturing expertise develops, quality rises, but so do prices. Many companies move to the next cheap place. Meanwhile these countries use their new knowledge and experience to develop their own companies which in many cases have a reputation for quality goods. And they now compete in the world market.
Many model railroad products for over 20 years now have followed the move to cheaper places strategy. But this requires more diligence on their part and a willingness to not accept shoddy work - some do, some don't. Some don't care as long as it is cheap.
Since no one does a Consumer Reports type test of model railroad products, all we have is word of mouth and personal experience.
Paul
Paul is almost there with what the answer to this question really is.
It's true that those who build model locos, etc are competing in a global market, but increasingly it's not one country after another that rises, but everyone competing against all. There's is less and less tolerance of bad quality. You can't start out selling junky stuff much anymore, you have to hit the ground running with decent products and they have to get better from there.
There's no reason to blame "those folks" overseas, either. Almost all the model companies we know are American, with only a few, notably Bachmann, among the big model train companies that is owned by overseas interests. Sure, the factories and workers are over there, but they only build what's asked of them. They also don't do much of the design work, people here still draw and spec it or at a minimum review R&D work for accuracy, as well as approve samples.
In the end, it is the IMPORTER who is primarily responsible for what you get when you open the package. Good, bad, or indifferent, they signed off on it, paid the freight, sprung it from Customs, shipped it to your retailer.
Yes, each product is the results of decisions that locked in its feature and deficits while immersed in a stream of constantly changing economic circumstances to make, transport, market and distribute it. Some companies get that pretty much right all the time, some not so much, and everywhere in between. You know what I'm saying based on your own experience.
There is a difference between a Bachmann DCC/Onborad loco and a Blackstone K-27. But both are built in China by the same builder. Amazingly, Bachmann has made steady improvements despite having not too good a reputation until very recently. Blackstone? Little to improve, I'm sure they'll do it if needed in the rare cases it is. Very different price points. Why? Detail, etc specific to each model is part of it. But a large part of it is the importer insisting on a certain quality standard and holding their manufacturing partner accountable. That cost money and takes time and effort. No more than 3 rejects out of a thousand? That's going to cost more than an item where 10% attrition will still leave the beancounters happy.
Yet, there are still folks who insist that trains cost too much. Well, better take the cheap ones out and test them while the paperwork is still fresh. That's one of the big reasons that vendors don't make changes -- a lot of locos go home and sit on someone's shelf. And there is no changing a bad run once it's out, just swapping things as best you can. All you can do is hope to have enough surplus to replace the funky ones showing up in dealer returns. Unlike other products, the short runs and differing decoration makes it very difficult to replace models one for one, too. In any case, take those locos for a test run or more. If there's a problem, it's best to get it sorted our sooner than later. Getting changes for the next batch, of there will be one, needs to be done asap to be effective.
But please don't blame "those folks" who build them They work cheaper than you'd ever believe or agree to, I'm sure. And they make them as they're told by someone right here in the good ol' USA, not on a whim.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Seems like everybody has had different experiences!
I love my Mantua steamers, but I;ll never get back the hours it took to detail them and make them run like they do.
My Athearn BB engines are bulletproof, but to get one to run like my Atlas or Kato engines, again its a time consumer.
My Bachmann's have been a mixed bag o nuts. 1 consolidation has been a dream, Another fried a motor with less than 4 hours of run time. My Decapods are now dark, the lighting circuits have 1 by 1 died. More time waster when I fix that. The rest of the diesels are noisey, except the S2 with sound.
Every one of my 13 Proto units are now sporting Athearn gears, otherwise they are good.
My Intermountains, Stewart, and Walthers units all have been good...............................so far!
It's kinda like the old Ford, Chevy, Dodge, Nissan, Toyota Etc arguments. Everybody gets a good one now and then, everybody gets a bad one now and then.
Karl
NCE über alles!
Interesting...
In N scale locomotives, from personal experience, and what appears to be a consensus here, there is no doubt that quality is WAY up compared to 20 years or more ago, with regard to running smoothness and power, visual details, materials, everything.
In HO scale, I have no direct experience, but the opinions definitely seem mixed, and leaning towards declining quality.
I don't know if there was ever much high volume production of N scale locomotives in the US, maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe N scale suffered through the offshore teething problems earlier than HO?
Andy
Well here are my stats:
45 Bachmann locos, mostly steam, mostly Spectrum, only 3 duds - Bachmann replaced them all to my satisfaction. Most of the Bachmann fleet has under gone some kit bashing, tender swapping and minor improvements I have shared on here repeatedly.
56 Proto2000, mostly diesel, many had cracked gears - BUT I REPLACED THEM ALL WITH PROTO PARTS - never has a repalcement wheel set cracked. The steam has all been perfect.
9 Intermountain F units - all perfect.
6 Genesis F units - all perfect.
3 Athearn RTR RS-3's - all perfect.
1 three unit old Athearn BB F7 set - completely super detailed and rebuilt from the ground up - can motors, Proto replacement wheel sets, GSB cab interiors, American Limited diaphrams and close coupling - a fun project but a lot of work and expense to even get near a set of Genesis or Intermountain F units.
1 Genesis 2-8-2 - still running fine on the factory gear - but I did disassemble it to add a lot of weight.
9 BLI/PCM - Some diesel, some steam - 2 were a complete mess, problems developed AFTER they had been run a while. 1 came missing parts - it took two requests to get those parts, 2 required minor mods to run well - only one was "perfect".
I could go on........................
I got my first job in a hobby shop in 1970, at age 13. In just a few years I was doing most of the repairs, and selling all the latest products, Athearn BB, Mantua kits, etc,etc,etc.
In those days you had better learn some mechanical skills real fast if you wanted a nice running loco - because out of the box, few of them were.
Quality? Most were a good starting point for a skilled modeler. No offense to anyone, but that would leave a lot of todays modelers in the cold.
Not to mention the issues of detail and correctness.
Still not complaining about prices or quality. And when I get the decoders out of these two latest locos there will be a great deal on ebay for two Bachmann decoders.
And remember, we dare not complain too loudly about quality - we don't want anything to happen to any of our little China friends who make our trains.
One other thought - every time this comes up, there are a few who rave about Atlas and Kato, and there is no question they make good products.
BUT, if many of us had to design our modeling around the locos made by these two companies we simply would not be in this hobby.
My modeling interest is the 1950s - I don't give a rats butt about 97.8% of the locos that Atlas or Kato have made - they are not in my era or interest.
As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar.
All you need to do is read reviews of locomotive kits in old MR's to find out about all the tweaking, fiddling and adjustments you need to make to those old models (especially steam) to get them to run halfway decently. Check out the June, 1959, issue of MR for a review of the then new MDC ATSF 2-6-2. It starts on page 10.
Here are a few of my comments which have nothing to do with what has to be done to make the locomotive run right.
1. The locomotive bears no resemblance whatsoever to any locomotive the Santa Fe ever owned. You might be able to use the mechanism to semi-scratchbuild a Milwaukee Road K-1.
2. The tender is incorrect. It's actually a 12,000 gallon tender which instead of the more common 8500 gal or 9000 gal. tender.
3. The boiler is incorrect. It's the boiler off the MDC ATSF 4-4-2. In fact, the only thing correct about the engine is the cab.
4. All of Santa Fe's 2-6-2's (with the exception of a couple of small second hand engines) had the main rod connected to the #2 driver pair whereas the MDC model connects it to the #3 pair.
5. The overwhelming majority of Santa Fe 2-6-2's had 69" drivers (the 1000 and 1050 class originally had 80" drivers before being rebuilt). In any case, the 1000 and 1050 class 2-6-2's had driver axle spacing for 80" drivers.
The "model" is of a locomotive that never existed. MDC wanted $32.50 for it in 1959. That's the equivalent of $256 today. By comparison, the BLI models of the USRA light and heavy 4-6-2 and 2-8-2 go for a MSRP of $299. The 4 BLI locomotives all have the virtue of representing locomotives that actually existed and existed in the form represented by the models.
For all the dewy eyed nostalgia, the "good old days" weren't all that good. Athearn diesel truck side frame castings barely resembled a Blomberg truck. The GP9 (actually a GP7) hood was overwidth and the handrails grossly oversized. Varney's "brute" diesel only vaguely represented an F2/Phase 1 F3. For the most part, "model" steam locomotives were little more than generic lumps of metal. You were lucky if you were a Pennsy fan, what with Penn-Line.
Andre
ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar. Sheldon
I agree with you on the Kato. They make probably the best rendition of the most common locomotive ever; but they do a run once a decade or two...
I'm suprised you didn't mention the Atlas/Kato RS1s, RS2s, RS3, RS11s or GP7s or the stewart/kato F-units... I think they still have the RS2 molds..
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
andrechapelonthe "good old days" weren't all that good.
I suppose that will depend on who you ask..Things was a lot less complicated back then and the majority of us accepted the flaws and enjoyed what we had.
To my mind the "good old days" was buying certain types of brass steam engines for less then $50.00..
To my mind going to a train show that actually had models on display and there was trading and buying between modelers with no vendors..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I model 1939. Lucky for me Kato makes an NW2 which are in great supply and cheap and correct for the year (I let slide some of the paint schemes. I own 4 of these. I own 3 Proto steamers, two 0-8-0 and one 0-6-0, around 15 Spectrum (only thing that has died on one is I lost a board on an 0-6-0 but was able to scrap the board and it runs fine. I have a few brass and two of the MDC shays run 10 times nicer, the other one I haven't really worked on (it was a RTR). A surprising great runner is the MDC critter of which I own two. I have sold all my IHC, Mantua and other MDC stuff, also my more recently bought Athearn steamers, just did not run as well or look as good. Best runners by far are the Proto 2000 steamers, these run ever so slightly better than even the Katos.
You mean that RTR brass models of actually existing prototypes that weren't all that more expensive than the generic lumps of cast zamac that were widely available because Japanese labor was so cheap?
Incidentally, that $50 brass locomotive may seem cheap now, but when you adjust for inflation, it's not.
The January, 1959, MR had an ad for a new release PFM Southern Ps-4. Price was $49.50. Equates to about $390 today.
I had a paper route back then. Made about $35/month working 7 day weeks for about 2 hours/day. (roughly 61 hours/month. Works out to 58 cents/hour (about $4.58/hour in today's currency).
Yeah, those were the "good old days".
andrechapelon ... For all the dewy eyed nostalgia, the "good old days" weren't all that good. Athearn diesel truck side frame castings barely resembled a Blomberg truck. The GP9 (actually a GP7) hood was overwidth and the handrails grossly oversized. Varney's "brute" diesel only vaguely represented an F2/Phase 1 F3. For the most part, "model" steam locomotives were little more than generic lumps of metal. You were lucky if you were a Pennsy fan, what with Penn-Line. Andre
...
You go, buddy! LOL!!
I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread....
"quality over quantity"
I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
andrechapelon had a paper route back then. Made about $35/month working 7 day weeks for about 2 hours/day. (roughly 61 hours/month. Works out to 58 cents/hour (about $4.58/hour in today's currency). Yeah, those were the "good old days". Andre
had a paper route back then. Made about $35/month working 7 day weeks for about 2 hours/day. (roughly 61 hours/month. Works out to 58 cents/hour (about $4.58/hour in today's currency).
Sorry to hear you was making $35.00 a month.Terrible wages-cowboy's monthly pay in the 1880s was $30 and found..Found means 3 meals and a cot in the bunkhouse.
When I was 15 I was making $150.00(before taxes) a week during the summer unloading boxcars.I lied about my age and all you really needed back then was a poker face and a Social Security card.
I never worked a paper route because the pay was so low.I cut grass one summer and average $20.00 a week.
You can't really compare today with the 60s since the jobs varied in pay and there was lots of high paying union factory jobs that many seems to ignore when comparing today with yesteryear..
Try quiting a job today and finding a job tomorrow.Good luck.
Packer ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar. Sheldon I agree with you on the Kato. They make probably the best rendition of the most common locomotive ever; but they do a run once a decade or two... I'm suprised you didn't mention the Atlas/Kato RS1s, RS2s, RS3, RS11s or GP7s or the stewart/kato F-units... I think they still have the RS2 molds..
That is a pretty limited selection of locos in my era compared to the full history of Proto2000, in which I have PA's, FA's(1&2), GP7's, SD9's, BL2's, GP9"s, SD7's, E8's, E7's, E6's, S1's, F7's, SW's (in various versions) and more.
The other problem with Atlas is preordering - I have never had to preorder a Proto loco to get what I wanted.
As for Stewart F units, I never understood why they did not come with handrails, at least asa user applied part. Pay top dollar and still ave to buy extra detail parts. My Proto, Genesis and Intermountian F's all came with superior detail and run just as well in my view for the dame or less money.
And RS11's are too new for me.
Burlington Northern #24 I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread.... "quality over quantity" I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model.
Again, in HO those companies don'r even have a selection of locos in the era I model - so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading.
Andrechapelin, What you refer to as my "Dewy Eyed" nostalgia trip, is in reality a look back at the quality of the mechanisms that were available 15 to 20 years ago, compared to what is available today. This is a realtime look at these two things and certainly not a nostalgia trip! In my original post, I stated that the locomotives of today are highly detailed. So your point about the MDC Prairie, is moot.
My point, the point I am attempting to make with this thread is; American manufacturing is expected to send to its' customers, parts with Zero Defects! If we are expected to produce Zero Defect, I expect everything I buy to be Zero Defect, also. (I've worked in the manufacturing trades long enough to know that expectations and reality, are two different things).
What prompted this post was the fact that I decided to empty my roundhouse and look at all my locomotive's mechanical qualities. Off the seventeen locomotives I own, four of them either squealed when running; or, failed to run all together and all of those which failed are newer designs. This is a failure rate of 23%. That's not a good ratio. These numbers speak for themselves! Is my ratio higher than normal? I guess that's for everyone else to determine.
Here is my roster over my 10 year experience in the hobby:
Steam
Bachmann Spectrum - Bought four, ultimately returned two under lifetime warranty, got different locos.
Proto Heritage - Bought three, all run without problem.
BLI - Bought six, retuined two for repairs, then sold off the two as unreliable, other four are fine.
Diesel
Atlas - Bought seven, never had a problem with any of them.
Proto 2000 - Bought 21 of them, never had a problem, that is why I bought so many.
Athearn RTR - Bought four of them, all junk, sold them off for pennies on the dollar.
Athearn Genesis - Bought eight different F7s and F3s, all good quality, no problems.
BLI Paragon E-units - Bought five of them, superb quality, no problems.
BLI Blueline - Bought two F7s, nice units, no problems.
Intermountain - Bought four of them, reliable, no problems.
*********************************
Recap:
Best Steamers: Proto Heritage
Best Diesels: (tie) Atlas and Proto 2000
Worst Steamers: Bachmann Spectrum
Worst Diesels: Athearn RTR
Worst Loco Ever Owned: My Spectrum 4-8-2, my beloved Thumper - R.I.P.
Alton Junction
ATLANTIC CENTRAL so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon
so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading.
Sheldon,Forgive but,what era do you model?
Atlas does make a RS3,RSD4/5,GP7,RS11 the Alco S series which as you know are older releases and far from being modern locomotives..Kato made a NW2 and RS2.
richhotrain Worst Diesels: Athearn RTR
Rich,To date all 38 of my Athearn RTR has been excellent runners.Sorry to hear you bought four bad apples.They're not Atlas or Kato and I knew that when I bought 'em but, I very pleased with them..
Sorry to hear about the passing of your beloved 4-8-2 "thumper".
BRAKIE Sorry to hear about the passing of your beloved 4-8-2 "thumper".
Larry, I appreciate those kind words.
Thumper was born crippled and nothing the surgeons tried made any difference. Doctor Wayne even offered to make a house call when Thumper could not longer travel. Surgeon General (and Chief Bachmann Cheer Leader) Sheldon offered his professional services pro bono but, alas, nothing could save Thumper who sufffered from Terminal Driver Wheel Misalignment and other assorted maladies. Upon return to Bachmann, their only reply was: Pick something else, there is nothing that we can do for Thumper.
He is buried just outside Philadephia, near Bachmann's headquarters.
Rich
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Burlington Northern #24 I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread.... "quality over quantity" I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model. Again, in HO those companies don'r even have a selection of locos in the era I model - so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon
Wasn't wages. Paperboys were supposedly"independent" entrepreneurs who bought papers from the publisher and then sold them to the people who they were delivering to. It was probably a way to get around child labor laws. I'm not sorry. It was better than doing nothing and getting paid nothing. Besides, it was "character building".
In any case, I was only 13 years okd.
You're taking this awfully personally, especially when I didn't have any one individual in mind when I used that phrase.
As Sheldon and others have pointed out, it used to be you had to have some mechanical skill to get something to run well, so the impression that things were better back in "the good old days" is a phenomenon reflecting faulty memory more than anything else.
ZERO DEFECTS? Who resurrected that old saw? I remember that from signs on hangars at the Air Force base I served at in the late 60's. The term was invented by Phil Crosby. You ought to read some of his public rear-end kissing of then ITT head (and well known micromanager) Harold T. Geneen. I remember all the sturm and drang when management introduced the Crosby program at the company I used to work for. It lasted less than 6 months because the overwhelming majority of people thought it was just another one of those idiotic "quick fixes" so beloved of managers who've never actually worked in the trenches (and they were right).
I've actually read some of Crosby's crap. W. Edwards Deming was much, much better at quality assurance. He's the one who taught the Japanese all about quality in the postwar period. My employer finally realized that Crosby was a load of bovine fecal matter and introduced Deming's methods. Of course, we were selling million dollar plus microchip making capital equipment and about 20 chip manufacturers represented 80% of our business, so it was kind of a necessity to sell reliable equipment.
As for the problems with your locomotives, I'd start troubleshooting if I were you. It may not be a problem with the design, but with the assembly. May actually be easy to fix. Or not. I don't know since they're not my locomotives.
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, and Andre, you made me think of this when you mentioned Japan.
Brass. OMG! Talk about deficient mechanisms. Especially when you consider the investment!!
My 2-8-4 Kanawah. 4-8-4 Potomac, 2 Baldwin Sharks and a Baldwin DRS 4-4-1000 have ALL gotten complete overhauls just to make decent runners out of them. Only the Sunset H9 consolidation was a runner right out of the box. I flat gave up on a Tenshodo geep, when I realized the only was to fix it was cutting away some of the frame to get a different mechanism in it. Much worse than a 23% failure rate! Lets see, 7 failures out of 8 locos, 87.5 % failure rate.
But the reason we've had the (plastic) models made in Japan, then Korea, now China is cost, not quality. believe me, Bachmann and such can afford to give away a few engines under warranty for what they are paying for them.
If you really want bulletproof drivelines, you gotta do it yourself! NWSL is your best friend!