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Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Burlington Northern #24 ATLANTIC CENTRAL BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon Sheldon,Forgive but,what era do you model? Atlas does make a RS3,RSD4/5,GP7,RS11 the Alco S series which as you know are older releases and far from being modern locomotives..Kato made a NW2 and RS2. Larry, I model 1954, and ALCO road switchers are low on my list of need/want, but I do have both Proto1000 and Athearn (retooled MDC) RS units that run great, As well as Proto2000 s-1's. Why mix brands if I don't have to? Because they have the same drives, my Proto GP7's un well with my BL2's, etc - all Proto. Atlas and Kato are greared tard the modern crowd - that's fine. Sheldon I tried looking for Atlantic central this morning in N scale couldn't find anything, I agree with you that Kato and atlas are both modern loco manufacturers. I'm just curious when I start my next layout could I ask for your help with signalling?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon Sheldon,Forgive but,what era do you model? Atlas does make a RS3,RSD4/5,GP7,RS11 the Alco S series which as you know are older releases and far from being modern locomotives..Kato made a NW2 and RS2. Larry, I model 1954, and ALCO road switchers are low on my list of need/want, but I do have both Proto1000 and Athearn (retooled MDC) RS units that run great, As well as Proto2000 s-1's. Why mix brands if I don't have to? Because they have the same drives, my Proto GP7's un well with my BL2's, etc - all Proto. Atlas and Kato are greared tard the modern crowd - that's fine. Sheldon
BRAKIE ATLANTIC CENTRAL so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon Sheldon,Forgive but,what era do you model? Atlas does make a RS3,RSD4/5,GP7,RS11 the Alco S series which as you know are older releases and far from being modern locomotives..Kato made a NW2 and RS2.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon
so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading.
Sheldon
Sheldon,Forgive but,what era do you model?
Atlas does make a RS3,RSD4/5,GP7,RS11 the Alco S series which as you know are older releases and far from being modern locomotives..Kato made a NW2 and RS2.
Larry, I model 1954, and ALCO road switchers are low on my list of need/want, but I do have both Proto1000 and Athearn (retooled MDC) RS units that run great, As well as Proto2000 s-1's.
Why mix brands if I don't have to?
Because they have the same drives, my Proto GP7's un well with my BL2's, etc - all Proto.
Atlas and Kato are greared tard the modern crowd - that's fine.
Gary, ATLANTIC CENTRAL is my own fictional freelance roadname, I buy mostly undecorated locos and paint and letter them.
And that brings up anotherr problem with Atlas, it seems every time I am ready to buy a loco, Atlas undecorated locos are no where to be found.
I also model B&O, C&O and Western Maryland.
1. You can have it fast and cheap, but it won't be any good.
2. You can have it fast and good, but you're going to pay through the nose for it.
3. You can have it good and cheap, but you're going to wait a looooonnnnnngggg time for it.
We say the same thing in construction.
andrechapelon I hope I'm miss-interpreting what I think you're trying to say, which is: Companies produce junk at times; so, you've got to man-up and accept the good with the bad; or, that high rates of failure are acceptable! You're totally missing the point. I know the origin of the whole Zero Defects idea and also know that it's a crock. I've read the works of Phil Crosby, who came up with the idea and it's the type of pabulum that appeals to people who have no hands on experience (i.e. managers who came out of business school and never actually did anything resembling what a worker would call real work). You ought to familiarize yourself with the life and works of W. Edwards Deming. If any one persion is responsibile for the rapid rise in quality of Japanese made goods in post-war Japan, Deming is it. Deming's pretty much where the whole idea of statistical quality control originated. Are you familiar with statistical quality control? Here's some of Deming's ideas in a nutshell (unfortunately, you actually need to read in greater depth to understand what he was really getting at). http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp Brief bio of Deming from the American Society for Quality: http://asq.org/about-asq/who-we-are/bio_deming.html Zero Defects is a crock. It's unattainable. It's the deification of perfectionism without a rational mechanism to achieve perfection. Making it even worse, it doesn't distinguish between trivial defects and those which can and do impede the functioning of whatever product is being discussed. I hope I'm miss-interpreting what I think you're trying to say, which is: Companies produce junk at times; so, you've got to man-up and accept the good with the bad; or, that high rates of failure are acceptable! No, that's not what I'm saying at all, not by a long shot. What I have said for years is that people want perfection, but snivel, moan and whine when they can't get perfection for cheap. It's the unrealistic expectation that model trains should be simultaneously low cost and absolutely free of any problems whatsoever. It's an impossible task for manufacturers. I worked for a Fortune 500 manufacturing company for nearly 20 years. I have at least a working knowledge of quality control concepts. Trying to push the concept of Zero Defects is only going to cause me to snort with derision. You (and others) seem to think it's all the manufacturer's fault. They're caught between the rock of the demand for the highest quality and the hard place of the demand for low price coupled with the demand for nearly unlimited variety . During my days in IT, we had 3 principles of software development. 1. You can have it fast and cheap, but it won't be any good. 2. You can have it fast and good, but you're going to pay through the nose for it. 3. You can have it good and cheap, but you're going to wait a looooonnnnnngggg time for it. Would you be willing to pay $500 for a BLI USRA light 4-6-2 if it were manufactured to Six SIgma (i.e. 3.4 defects per million) standards? Given that BLI light 4-6-2's are manufactured in significantly lower quantites than a million, the likelihood of getting a defective one would approach zero. EDIT: I forgot to mention such non-quality issues as economies of scale, which do arise in the model railroad industry because of a relatively small customer base fragmented further by issues of scale, era gauge, etc. Andre
I hope I'm miss-interpreting what I think you're trying to say, which is: Companies produce junk at times; so, you've got to man-up and accept the good with the bad; or, that high rates of failure are acceptable!
You're totally missing the point. I know the origin of the whole Zero Defects idea and also know that it's a crock. I've read the works of Phil Crosby, who came up with the idea and it's the type of pabulum that appeals to people who have no hands on experience (i.e. managers who came out of business school and never actually did anything resembling what a worker would call real work).
You ought to familiarize yourself with the life and works of W. Edwards Deming. If any one persion is responsibile for the rapid rise in quality of Japanese made goods in post-war Japan, Deming is it. Deming's pretty much where the whole idea of statistical quality control originated. Are you familiar with statistical quality control?
Here's some of Deming's ideas in a nutshell (unfortunately, you actually need to read in greater depth to understand what he was really getting at). http://www.skymark.com/resources/leaders/deming.asp
Brief bio of Deming from the American Society for Quality: http://asq.org/about-asq/who-we-are/bio_deming.html
Zero Defects is a crock. It's unattainable. It's the deification of perfectionism without a rational mechanism to achieve perfection. Making it even worse, it doesn't distinguish between trivial defects and those which can and do impede the functioning of whatever product is being discussed.
No, that's not what I'm saying at all, not by a long shot. What I have said for years is that people want perfection, but snivel, moan and whine when they can't get perfection for cheap. It's the unrealistic expectation that model trains should be simultaneously low cost and absolutely free of any problems whatsoever. It's an impossible task for manufacturers.
I worked for a Fortune 500 manufacturing company for nearly 20 years. I have at least a working knowledge of quality control concepts. Trying to push the concept of Zero Defects is only going to cause me to snort with derision.
You (and others) seem to think it's all the manufacturer's fault. They're caught between the rock of the demand for the highest quality and the hard place of the demand for low price coupled with the demand for nearly unlimited variety . During my days in IT, we had 3 principles of software development.
Would you be willing to pay $500 for a BLI USRA light 4-6-2 if it were manufactured to Six SIgma (i.e. 3.4 defects per million) standards? Given that BLI light 4-6-2's are manufactured in significantly lower quantites than a million, the likelihood of getting a defective one would approach zero.
EDIT: I forgot to mention such non-quality issues as economies of scale, which do arise in the model railroad industry because of a relatively small customer base fragmented further by issues of scale, era gauge, etc.
Andre
I've spent 44 years involved in manufacturing! I know who Demming and the rest of them are. I've fought with customers about what Zero Defect is and also know it is impossible! I can't believe you can get into such a hissy fit, when you have miss-interpreted what I said FROM THE GET GO!!
I told you I don't want to have this turn into a P------ match; but, man you won't read whats been said and just go on and on in attempts to make a point that I can't disagree with! WOW! Oh, and by the way, your missing my point!
Go lecture some one who gives a crap about what you have to say!
You win, you win, Andre, I give up!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
andrechapelon .... 1. You can have it fast and cheap, but it won't be any good. 2. You can have it fast and good, but you're going to pay through the nose for it. 3. You can have it good and cheap, but you're going to wait a looooonnnnnngggg time for it. .... Andre
....
And if you want it very fast you don't get good or cheap.
Paul
selector Zero defects is unrealistic in a toy industry, particularly scale items that are meant to work for some time with all their moving parts. Even the brass market with their $1000-$2500 steamers have duds. If we want perfection, the cost would at least double, and THAT would kill the industry faster than a nuke. Crandell
Zero defects is unrealistic in a toy industry, particularly scale items that are meant to work for some time with all their moving parts. Even the brass market with their $1000-$2500 steamers have duds. If we want perfection, the cost would at least double, and THAT would kill the industry faster than a nuke.
Crandell
In reality, it costs less to make good products then it does to make bad. Every industry should aspire to making every item they make as perfect as possible. Don't be confused into thinking that a perfect model would be a perfect recreation of the prototype, that is not the case. I guess my suggesting Zero Defect is confusing to people because they do not read my caveat below where I mentioned the phrase.
Please, lets move on!
I don't buy all the older stuff was just better. And all you guys just need to quit being grumpy'
In the old days just about every engine you bought needed adjustment before it ran well. I even have a very nice piece of brass from the early 80's that had realistic flexible side bolsters on the tender. As soon as I took it out of the box, the coil springs popped out. Four hours later, I still didn't have them back in.
I also have a Varny Docksider. It's great if you don't care about detail. It also runs at two speeds: 0 and way too fast.
Lets see what we got in the last 20 years:
1. Knuckle Couplers
2. Brass Engine Flywheels
3. Can Motors of ever increasing quality
4. LED Lighting
5. Directional lighting
6. Better detail
7. More accurate detail
8. Gear towers so your train doesn't go 150 smph and creeps along better as slower speeds
9. Sound & DCC control
10. RP25 wheels so you can run on Code 55 track without issue.
11. Standardized turnout dimensions via NMRA.
Locomotive maintenence is just a way of life. You have to deal with it or get out of the hobby.
The following companies still have issues:
Bachmann Steam - Their drive lines constantly fail on me. It's quite frustrating be it the 4-8-2 Mountain, or the H-4 H-5 class they just fail with time. And yes I'm lubing them! As far as parts go, Bachmann has improved this situation considerably the last couple years. You can get MANY replacement parts online via their website. No one else but Athearn offers this!
BLI - They are beautiful engines but very hit or miss in quality sadly, or I would not hestitate to recommend them as my #1 choice.
Athearn: Their bulbs are cheap and burn out way too easily. But the driveline is highly dependable, especially on their 4 axel diesels.
Walthers doesn't really have a problem with cracked gears anymore. They fixed the mfg issue. They also standardized the gear ratio. I am frustrated that Walthers doesn't really carry parts for their motive power.
Loose journals, bushings and bearings allow for wheels to ride out more inconsistent (rough) trackwork.
What you guys may be noticing is that as our "toys" get more realistic, they also tend to get more fragile and finicky about what track they run on. So I have NO clue what you guys are complaining about.
If you want realiable and toy like, buy nothing but Lionel Tinoplate 4 axel f units and run it on code 100 track. You can run them day in and day out.
If you want realistic, deal with the time it takes to make it work.
You think the real railroad didn't have to do maintenance?
Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions
Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Hello NP2626, Jeez, a Varney Docksider. I see you got your's about the same time I got mine. Bought it at a hobby and bike shop in Chicago on W. 79th St. I gave the owner a buck to hang on to it for me (1960's layaway?) until I had saved enough money from my stock boy job at the Jewel Tea store across the street. I think I paid $11 or $13 dollars for it. Ran it on my carpet layout in my bedroom and marveled at it's cute wiggle as it ran down the straightaways. It's now sitting on my son's layout, drive wheels permanently frozen in place from many layers of thick paint. Some day, I'll work on it, but I don't think it'll ever happen.
dti406 Atlas and Athearn do pretty well in supplying replacement parts, but Walther's and Botchmann are woefully non responding in the quest for replacement parts.
Atlas and Athearn do pretty well in supplying replacement parts, but Walther's and Botchmann are woefully non responding in the quest for replacement parts.
Yep, I agree with you on Atlas and Athearn. They are the best for replacement parts.
I truly agree with you on Walthers, and that is a shame because when they acquired Life Like they had a good precedent to follow - - but didn't.
As far as Bachmann is concerned, it is truly troubling when one immediately recognizes Botchmann as a pseudonym for Bachmann rather than a typo. LOL
So, I guess that I agree with you on all four counts.
Rich
Alton Junction
Well, if they are not going to supply perfection, then at least have a ready supply of replacement parts so we can fix those duds to our satisfaction.
And the part situation will get worse what with preordering so they will not have as many replacement parts available as in the past.
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
kbkchoochBrass. OMG! Talk about deficient mechanisms
Without a doubt the worst of the worst had to be the KMT drives found in Alco Models,Trains Inc and Hallmark diesels of the 60s still I bought and manage to use Alco Model's RS1,a Trains Inc SW9 and RS1350..All were screamers and true coffee grinders.
The PFM and United steam locomotive drives was excellent as was the Tenshodo steam locomotives..
Never could figure out why brass diesels was the worst runners..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
andrechapelon Andrechapelin, What you refer to as my "Dewy Eyed" nostalgia trip, is in reality a look back at the quality of the mechanisms that were available 15 to 20 years ago, compared to what is available today. This is a realtime look at these two things and certainly not a nostalgia trip! In my original post, I stated that the locomotives of today are highly detailed. So your point about the MDC Prairie, is moot. You're taking this awfully personally, especially when I didn't have any one individual in mind when I used that phrase. What prompted this post was the fact that I decided to empty my roundhouse and look at all my locomotive's mechanical qualities. Off the seventeen locomotives I own, four of them either squealed when running; or, failed to run all together and all of those which failed are newer designs. This is a failure rate of 23%. That's not a good ratio. These numbers speak for themselves! Is my ratio higher than normal? I guess that's for everyone else to determine. As Sheldon and others have pointed out, it used to be you had to have some mechanical skill to get something to run well, so the impression that things were better back in "the good old days" is a phenomenon reflecting faulty memory more than anything else. My point, the point I am attempting to make with this thread is; American manufacturing is expected to send to its' customers, parts with Zero Defects! If we are expected to produce Zero Defect, I expect everything I buy to be Zero Defect, also. (I've worked in the manufacturing trades long enough to know that expectations and reality, are two different things). ZERO DEFECTS? Who resurrected that old saw? I remember that from signs on hangars at the Air Force base I served at in the late 60's. The term was invented by Phil Crosby. You ought to read some of his public rear-end kissing of then ITT head (and well known micromanager) Harold T. Geneen. I remember all the sturm and drang when management introduced the Crosby program at the company I used to work for. It lasted less than 6 months because the overwhelming majority of people thought it was just another one of those idiotic "quick fixes" so beloved of managers who've never actually worked in the trenches (and they were right). I've actually read some of Crosby's crap. W. Edwards Deming was much, much better at quality assurance. He's the one who taught the Japanese all about quality in the postwar period. My employer finally realized that Crosby was a load of bovine fecal matter and introduced Deming's methods. Of course, we were selling million dollar plus microchip making capital equipment and about 20 chip manufacturers represented 80% of our business, so it was kind of a necessity to sell reliable equipment. As for the problems with your locomotives, I'd start troubleshooting if I were you. It may not be a problem with the design, but with the assembly. May actually be easy to fix. Or not. I don't know since they're not my locomotives. Andre Andre
Andrechapelin, What you refer to as my "Dewy Eyed" nostalgia trip, is in reality a look back at the quality of the mechanisms that were available 15 to 20 years ago, compared to what is available today. This is a realtime look at these two things and certainly not a nostalgia trip! In my original post, I stated that the locomotives of today are highly detailed. So your point about the MDC Prairie, is moot.
You're taking this awfully personally, especially when I didn't have any one individual in mind when I used that phrase.
What prompted this post was the fact that I decided to empty my roundhouse and look at all my locomotive's mechanical qualities. Off the seventeen locomotives I own, four of them either squealed when running; or, failed to run all together and all of those which failed are newer designs. This is a failure rate of 23%. That's not a good ratio. These numbers speak for themselves! Is my ratio higher than normal? I guess that's for everyone else to determine.
As Sheldon and others have pointed out, it used to be you had to have some mechanical skill to get something to run well, so the impression that things were better back in "the good old days" is a phenomenon reflecting faulty memory more than anything else.
My point, the point I am attempting to make with this thread is; American manufacturing is expected to send to its' customers, parts with Zero Defects! If we are expected to produce Zero Defect, I expect everything I buy to be Zero Defect, also. (I've worked in the manufacturing trades long enough to know that expectations and reality, are two different things).
ZERO DEFECTS? Who resurrected that old saw? I remember that from signs on hangars at the Air Force base I served at in the late 60's. The term was invented by Phil Crosby. You ought to read some of his public rear-end kissing of then ITT head (and well known micromanager) Harold T. Geneen. I remember all the sturm and drang when management introduced the Crosby program at the company I used to work for. It lasted less than 6 months because the overwhelming majority of people thought it was just another one of those idiotic "quick fixes" so beloved of managers who've never actually worked in the trenches (and they were right).
I've actually read some of Crosby's crap. W. Edwards Deming was much, much better at quality assurance. He's the one who taught the Japanese all about quality in the postwar period. My employer finally realized that Crosby was a load of bovine fecal matter and introduced Deming's methods. Of course, we were selling million dollar plus microchip making capital equipment and about 20 chip manufacturers represented 80% of our business, so it was kind of a necessity to sell reliable equipment.
As for the problems with your locomotives, I'd start troubleshooting if I were you. It may not be a problem with the design, but with the assembly. May actually be easy to fix. Or not. I don't know since they're not my locomotives.
Who is taking WHAT personally?
I'm not interested in ill will between us!
Zero defect is a good idea for all companies to aspire to! Like I said: (I've worked in the manufacturing trades long enough to know that expectations and reality, are two different things).
Truth be told, I'm uncertain what it is you are really trying to say?
But the reason we've had the (plastic) models made in Japan, then Korea, now China is cost, not quality. believe me, Bachmann and such can afford to give away a few engines under warranty for what they are paying for them.
That's true, but people still want a Lexus.
They just want to pay a Yugo (remember those?) price for it.
One thing I forgot to mention earlier, and Andre, you made me think of this when you mentioned Japan.
Brass. OMG! Talk about deficient mechanisms. Especially when you consider the investment!!
My 2-8-4 Kanawah. 4-8-4 Potomac, 2 Baldwin Sharks and a Baldwin DRS 4-4-1000 have ALL gotten complete overhauls just to make decent runners out of them. Only the Sunset H9 consolidation was a runner right out of the box. I flat gave up on a Tenshodo geep, when I realized the only was to fix it was cutting away some of the frame to get a different mechanism in it. Much worse than a 23% failure rate! Lets see, 7 failures out of 8 locos, 87.5 % failure rate.
If you really want bulletproof drivelines, you gotta do it yourself! NWSL is your best friend!
Karl
NCE über alles!
Sorry to hear you was making $35.00 a month.Terrible wages-cowboy's monthly pay in the 1880s was $30 and found..Found means 3 meals and a cot in the bunkhouse.
Wasn't wages. Paperboys were supposedly"independent" entrepreneurs who bought papers from the publisher and then sold them to the people who they were delivering to. It was probably a way to get around child labor laws. I'm not sorry. It was better than doing nothing and getting paid nothing. Besides, it was "character building".
In any case, I was only 13 years okd.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Burlington Northern #24 I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread.... "quality over quantity" I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model. Again, in HO those companies don'r even have a selection of locos in the era I model - so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading. Sheldon
Burlington Northern #24 I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread.... "quality over quantity" I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model.
I seem to have been the only N scale participant of this thread....
"quality over quantity"
I will always go with Kato and Atlas, and I'm not above repainting and decaling a locomotive for one of the railroads I model.
Again, in HO those companies don'r even have a selection of locos in the era I model - so what do you suggest? That I change eras to buy their product? I would give up the hobby first. I have no interest in modern railroading.
BRAKIE Sorry to hear about the passing of your beloved 4-8-2 "thumper".
Sorry to hear about the passing of your beloved 4-8-2 "thumper".
Larry, I appreciate those kind words.
Thumper was born crippled and nothing the surgeons tried made any difference. Doctor Wayne even offered to make a house call when Thumper could not longer travel. Surgeon General (and Chief Bachmann Cheer Leader) Sheldon offered his professional services pro bono but, alas, nothing could save Thumper who sufffered from Terminal Driver Wheel Misalignment and other assorted maladies. Upon return to Bachmann, their only reply was: Pick something else, there is nothing that we can do for Thumper.
He is buried just outside Philadephia, near Bachmann's headquarters.
richhotrain Worst Diesels: Athearn RTR
Worst Diesels: Athearn RTR
Rich,To date all 38 of my Athearn RTR has been excellent runners.Sorry to hear you bought four bad apples.They're not Atlas or Kato and I knew that when I bought 'em but, I very pleased with them..
Here is my roster over my 10 year experience in the hobby:
Steam
Bachmann Spectrum - Bought four, ultimately returned two under lifetime warranty, got different locos.
Proto Heritage - Bought three, all run without problem.
BLI - Bought six, retuined two for repairs, then sold off the two as unreliable, other four are fine.
Diesel
Atlas - Bought seven, never had a problem with any of them.
Proto 2000 - Bought 21 of them, never had a problem, that is why I bought so many.
Athearn RTR - Bought four of them, all junk, sold them off for pennies on the dollar.
Athearn Genesis - Bought eight different F7s and F3s, all good quality, no problems.
BLI Paragon E-units - Bought five of them, superb quality, no problems.
BLI Blueline - Bought two F7s, nice units, no problems.
Intermountain - Bought four of them, reliable, no problems.
*********************************
Recap:
Best Steamers: Proto Heritage
Best Diesels: (tie) Atlas and Proto 2000
Worst Steamers: Bachmann Spectrum
Worst Loco Ever Owned: My Spectrum 4-8-2, my beloved Thumper - R.I.P.
Packer ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar. Sheldon I agree with you on the Kato. They make probably the best rendition of the most common locomotive ever; but they do a run once a decade or two... I'm suprised you didn't mention the Atlas/Kato RS1s, RS2s, RS3, RS11s or GP7s or the stewart/kato F-units... I think they still have the RS2 molds..
ATLANTIC CENTRAL As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar. Sheldon
As for Kato - well they are really an N scale company that dabbles in HO from time to time, they don't make enough HO to even be on my radar.
I agree with you on the Kato. They make probably the best rendition of the most common locomotive ever; but they do a run once a decade or two...
I'm suprised you didn't mention the Atlas/Kato RS1s, RS2s, RS3, RS11s or GP7s or the stewart/kato F-units... I think they still have the RS2 molds..
That is a pretty limited selection of locos in my era compared to the full history of Proto2000, in which I have PA's, FA's(1&2), GP7's, SD9's, BL2's, GP9"s, SD7's, E8's, E7's, E6's, S1's, F7's, SW's (in various versions) and more.
The other problem with Atlas is preordering - I have never had to preorder a Proto loco to get what I wanted.
As for Stewart F units, I never understood why they did not come with handrails, at least asa user applied part. Pay top dollar and still ave to buy extra detail parts. My Proto, Genesis and Intermountian F's all came with superior detail and run just as well in my view for the dame or less money.
And RS11's are too new for me.
andrechapelon had a paper route back then. Made about $35/month working 7 day weeks for about 2 hours/day. (roughly 61 hours/month. Works out to 58 cents/hour (about $4.58/hour in today's currency). Yeah, those were the "good old days". Andre
had a paper route back then. Made about $35/month working 7 day weeks for about 2 hours/day. (roughly 61 hours/month. Works out to 58 cents/hour (about $4.58/hour in today's currency).
Yeah, those were the "good old days".
When I was 15 I was making $150.00(before taxes) a week during the summer unloading boxcars.I lied about my age and all you really needed back then was a poker face and a Social Security card.
I never worked a paper route because the pay was so low.I cut grass one summer and average $20.00 a week.
You can't really compare today with the 60s since the jobs varied in pay and there was lots of high paying union factory jobs that many seems to ignore when comparing today with yesteryear..
Try quiting a job today and finding a job tomorrow.Good luck.