I will ask at My LHS if they have styrene parts tomorrow maybe but in the meantime I was curious about it, and the various pieces like windows, etc. that are out there.
I was curious how does one go About scratchbuilding buildings, and what would one use.
I was planning on building this station it's a former NP station currently used by amtrak and the shortline railroad Puget sound and pacific this is the reason for my curiosity. I've been watching videos made by a gentleman who scratchbuilds his own stuff. also to convert the building to N scale would I divide by 160 to get scale ft?( n scale)
Thank you in advance.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
Styrene sheet and plastic windows, doors, etc make it easy to build all kinds of buildings. N scale is a bit more of a challenge. I use Grandt Line windows and doors in HO, but believe they also do some in N scale.
That said, I'd try something a little less complex than the station you have pictured as a first try. Being brick, it will require a little more care in cutting and fitting doors and windows to look tidy. The tile roofing may be available from Plastruct or another supplier, but will also be a little more complex to fit than a oplain old shingle roof.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
well I could always build my parents and my grandpas house. wouldn't be to hard I think, hehe I'd also like to do an industry.
Personally I think your nuts if you've never scratch built a structure before.
How about this station here: http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/322-639
Just search the internets, maybe you find this on ebay or something.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Even though the variety of kits available today reduce the need for scratch building, I still see the desire to scratch build a structure as strong, at least among a segment of the model railroading hobby.
And, although I have yet to scratch build anything, I have to believe that practice makes perfect.
I am currently contemplating scratch building a lift bridge and if I ever get to build my Dream Layout, it will require the scratch building of several trackside structures for which no kits are available.
It just seems to me that scratch building is a natural evolution of talents as a model railroader.
Even Motley has already tried his hand at scratch building his background round house.
Rich
Alton Junction
Styrene sheet is great stuff, a very good scratch building material! I say: have at'r!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
I just built a Walther's station that looks almost exactly like the one you want. I would scratch build things not available in kits and start with something a little less detailed than a large station.
I have to agree that building that station as your first project would be a mistake. Try something simpler and smaller. You'll learn as you go, so if you screw-up, it won't be such a financial hit. I'm not sure what's available in windows and doors in N scale, but check both Tichy and Grandt Line. Even if they don't have N scale stuff, many windows will work for scales other than the one for which they're intended, and most doors are fairly easy to scratchbuild.
Once you have a couple of small projects under your belt, you can move on to something more ambitious. Evergreen offers a good range of strip and sheet material, including structural shapes and sheet siding in various styles. Walthers, and perhaps others, offer brick-patterned styrene sheets, and various types of roofing are available. I use lacquer thinner as a solvent cement for styrene, applying it with a brush sized to the particular job.Initially, you'll probably have a large outlay for materials, as most is pre-packaged in multiples, often more than you'll need for a single structure, but eventually you'll accumulate enough to complete many projects as-yet unthought of. If you have an interest in building large structures, it's often more economical to buy plain sheet styrene in 4'x8' sheets - look in the yellow pages under "Plastic Suppliers". While I model in HO, I've gone through several such sheets, mostly .060" thick.
To illustrate, here's part of my shop. The homemade case for the Evergreen strip material contains probably $300.00 or $400.00 worth of material, with multiple packages in each plastic sleeve in most of the dimensions offered. Sheet material is stored elsewhere, as are windows, doors, and detail parts. Assembly of larger structures is done elsewhere.
Here are a few scratchbuilt structures. While I used to build windows from scratch, too, the ready-made ones are generally better-looking than what I could do, and I use them exclusively nowadays.
A simple crossing guard's shanty - Evergreen strip and siding, Campbell shingles:
A similar one, elevated (the stairs are from Central Valley):
A coal dealer's storage bins and ice house - I built four of each to a standard design, altering them to fit their locales, as there's one in almost every town on the layout:
Here's a more elaborate coal dealership. Mostly Evergreen strip and structural shapes, with the lattice-work columns and stairs from Central Valley. The corrugated siding is from Campbell:
This former coal dealer's elevator was built from Evergreen sheet siding, with the lean-to built-up board-by-board with Evergreen distressed strips. The foundation is Model Die Casting parts:
Stockyard, mostly Evergreen strip material, and lots of it. Most towns on the layout have a smaller version for local shipping and receiving. The roofed pens were done with Campbell's corrugated panels:
Larger structures, like this station (grey building) are where the large styrene sheets are really useful. It's all scratchbuilt from .060" sheet, except for the doors and windows, which were left-overs from Walthers kits (used to build the P&M Languay factory, at right:
And finally, this crane. I built it in the early '70s, mostly from sheet styrene, including the motors, gear cases and electrical cabinets. The handrails are basswood structural shapes, as I was unaware of anything similar in styrene at the time. It languished in a shoebox for many years, until my current layout was built. Originally intended to be one of two in a blast furnace casthouse, that project ran out of both time and money, not to mention space in our small apartment of that time.
Wayne
Scratch building is enjoyable. Styrene is an excellent modeling material, cuts easily, quite strong, glues well, takes paint well, and lots of detail part castings (doors, windows, chimneys, etc) available. I have to agree with a previous poster, that station is pretty ambitious for a first project, getting those roof dormers right is going to be hard. I'd suggest a simpler structure for a first try.
I always work from plans. Used to be the hobby press was full of plans. Now a days I have to draw my own plans from photographs. The compleat modeler will take a long steel tape, a camera, a brightly painted stick of known length and a notebook. Take photos of all four sides, with the camera looking right straight at the structure. Place the stick in the photo to give something to scale off of. Measure everything you can reach, length and width, size of windows and doors, height of eaves. Draw your plans full sized on squared paper.
David Starr www.newsnorthwoods.blogspot.com
interesting, ok I'll try something. I haven't scratch built anything yet because I started in april of last year, nt going to lie but I'm slightly intimidated now. not yet sweating bullets but slightly intimidated.
If you're familiar with Sketchup, it has an Unfold plugin that can help make a template for complex roof shapes. Make a 3D model based on plans and unfold it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkeoQh0PBFU
If I can throw my two cents in here I agree with everyone that start with something simple. There have been a number of articles in MR about scratch-building and they include plans of simple structures to get the feel of it. I have 19 industries on my railroad and 16 of them are scratch built. Some are better than others but I learned better methods as i went along. I'll probably go back someday and pull the bad ones out and rebuild them.
I think between operations and scratch building I like building more.
John
The Dames Point Industrial Railroad
http:\\dpirr.blogspot.com
A simple scratchbuilding project mostly in styrene- my late mother-in-law's 3-room house in Hutchinson, Kansas. Part cut from a photo-etched fire escape provided the metal grillwork for the front porch.
I'd say go for it; it's not like it would be the end of the world if you messed up. I scratchbuilt all the structures on my modules; starting with the biggest one. This was my first attempt at scratchbuilding a major structure (have done several 'junk box' scratchbuilds and loads/details). The building is pretty simple, basically two boxes, with no complicated angled walls/roofs; its about 38" long, 8" deep and maybe 10" tall. (I haven't looked at my Shutterfly account, but there are some pics of my FreeMo modules, possibly some of the buildings, in progress) It's not a link, but copy/paste my signature into your address bar.
I probably should have started with a smaller building; and made (and stuck to) an accurate plan. The major dimensions all look ok, but as they say, the devil is in the details. It's not hard, but there are things I've learned...at least the remaining smaller buildings should go pretty ok. lol
I made plenty of sketches but decided to 'wing it' because of the deceptively simple lines of the industrial buildings. It worked out, but it was a bit more work than if I had made a detailed (dimensioned) plan. I am a CAD user by profession but thought I'd save time and jump right in. During construction, when I found an issue, I had to stop and do some research and make a decision (which could have been avoided if I had a better plan). People say the building turned out pretty good, but I can see every mistake I made.
One trip to the hobby shop, I spent almost $100 in Evergreen strip and sheets. I've since been back several times (but didn't spend as much) to replenish my supplies. It is intimidating when you cut into your only 12"x24" sheet of .040 styrene, but rewarding when I look at the large industry for my HiCubes.
Go for it! Have fun, you will learn a useful skill that will serve you well forever. Oh, as far as cost, I think it's about the same as buying modern kits--I built 6 large buildings for probably $200-$300 (including glue, paint and an acceptable amount of leftover stock for future projects). Don't rush it and if you have any questions, search the 'net...it might take a while, but there are a lot of good articles out there and you will learn a lot!
http://delray1967.shutterfly.com/pictures/5
SEMI Free-Mo@groups.io
all right, I'll check it out when I go to my LHS tomorrow. I also will be bringing my vomit bonnet along because I told the fellow who was in there the other day I'd bring it once it arrived.
One thing which I forgot to mention in my previous post is that your first purchase, if you're planning on doing any scratchbuilding, should be a scale ruler. It will have N scale "feet" marked on it, making it very easy to transfer dimensions from prototype drawings to your building materials. If the plans from which you're working are drawn in another scale but without prototype dimensions, there are scale rules available which cover all the usual scales: simply measure the drawing using the appropriate scale, then use the same dimension on the N scale section to mark the material for cutting.
I almost never work from drawings, although I might make a sketch to figure out a roof angle or something similar.
I am modelling the late 1950's in Southern California so the typical brick building kit won't work (brick construction is easily damaged in an earthquake so was not used much in SoCal). Since most of the buildings in the areas I'm modeling have been replaced, or at least heavily modernized since the 1950's, I'm not trying to model exact copies of these structures. I start by determining how much space I have on the layout and sketch out a quick building footprint. Comparing the available footprint to one of the building photos/Google Map Street Views helps me decide which building to model for that spot.
I use an architectural CAD program to draw a floor plan including all door and window locations. I then work up elevations based on the floor plan and my building photos. The final step is to draw up the roof structure. Once I have the drawings complete, I print them on cardstock, cut them out, then glue/tape everything together into a 3D mock-up. I place the mock-up in its intended position on the layout and then examine whether the scale version of the structure appears to have the "right" proportions. Horizontally compressed structures often look too tall. Roof heights and angles can be adjusted to correct these proportional imperfections. If my proportional corrections are significant, I will adjust my drawings and print out another mock-up. Once, I'm happy with the mock-up, I then construct the building using styrene. Although I prefer to use commercial door and window castings, I have had to scratch build several storefront style window systems.
The greatest advantage to my "mock-up first" approach is that I can quickly mock up an entire City block before I do any work in styrene. It is far easier and cheaper to alter/modify my cardstock mock-ups to achieve the desired look. I then replace each mock-up with a final styrene structure while maintaining the rest of the mock-up buildings in place until I can complete all of the styrene versions. Even better, I can temporarily locate the displaced mock-ups elsewhere on the layout until I can create final structure designs for those areas. So far, I have scratchbuilt the Santa Fe depot and freight house in Santa Ana and half a City block in Costa Mesa. I must have gotten pretty close on my version of the Santa Fe depot based on the rather enthusiastic reactions of a former mayor of Santa Ana. My father, a retired architect, also fell in love with my version of Mesa Liquor in Costa Mesa stating that the architecture was perfect for a new SoCal commercial structure in the late 1950's.
Probably the most important thing to keep in mind is that YOU WILL MAKE MISTAKES! Don't sweat it though. Achieving the final product through all the challenges is what makes scratchbuilding so satisfying. We've all seen a particular kit structure that seems to appear on every layout. If you can keep such popular kit structures off of your layout by creating your own structures, you'll be that much ahead of the next model railroader.
Hornblower
ok, scale ruler and avoid popular kits got it. I will ask tomorrow.
Although you don't NEED one for scratch building, a digital caliper is an excellent tool for measuring things and will help in all things modeling.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
Hi BN#24,
As other have already stated don't be intimidated and start small and get some experience first before you tackle that dream station.
I might suggest a intermediate step. Have you thought about kitbashing? This can involve some if not most of the skills you will need for scratch building. Another question to ask, how are your present kit building skills? Make sure you are pretty comfortable and cracker jack at kit building before moving on.
Good Luck
Derek
Sheet styrene is a great material to work with, I bought a sheet 2'x4' years back and had never used it before, I built 3 large scale Frank Lloyd Wright houses with nothing but cut- to- fit styrene, I made windows, doors, roofing, siding, gutters, doorsteps etc etc , roofs were etched with an x-acto knife as was siding and bricks and stone work, easy to do and fun, painted with acrylic paints they almost look real. Just carried on in a smaller scale (HO) and make all my buildings, bridges, etc out of styrene, a sheet is cheap at a plastics store. easy to cut, sand, bend, shape and glues up instantly, go ahead try it.
Unfortunately the selection of N scale brick styrene sheets is rather limited, but here is one example that is reasonably priced:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/405-37964
Here is some styrene tile roofing
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/570-91640
Here is the selection of N scale windows that Walthers offers:
http://www.walthers.com/exec/search?category=Part&scale=N&manu=&item=&keywords=windows&words=restrict&instock=Q&split=30&Submit=Search
As for starting with the station as a first project, my prediction would be that you will get it right on the second try, or maybe the third. Getting it wrong will get expensive. That is one reason why several people have suggested choosing a simpler project to learn on. I did make the mistake that you might be about to make. I dove into a large engine service shop using too much glue around the windows (I was trying to fill light gaps). The result was that the excess glue caused the window frames to swell which resulted in the muntins warping and breaking. There were only about 50 large windows affected. No big deal!
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I know this discussion is about styrene but do consider paper textures. They are especially effective for brick buildings. Here are some sources. Just the desired texture, pay for it, download to your computer and you can print as much as you need:
Clever Models http://clevermodels.squarespace.com/
Scale Scenes http://scalescenes.com/
You can purchase Brickyard a program that has 20 styles of brick and stone from Evans Design http://www.modeltrainsoftware.com/ Their Model Builder program as many textures, (Brick, Wood, Metal, Doors and Windows) In Model Builder you can design brick textures, controlling color, mortor thickness, and adding weathering effects.
A free website that lets you genererate and print may styles of brick is Brickpaper http://paperbrick.co.uk/index.php?action=home
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RSLaser makes laser cut wood peel & stick brick sheets http://www.rslaserkits.com/N-Details.html
I tried to sell my two cents worth, but no one would give me a plug nickel for it.
I don't have a leg to stand on.
thanks for all of the links I will check them out, I can build kits I'm just waiting on some special tweezers for the finer pieces like the ones I will be working with While I superdetail my GP15-1, my project has changed from the station to maybe some thing slightly smaller like my house, kitbashing, at the moment I'm trying to figure out how to get a tichy rotary plow and a lifelike BN F7 shell together to look like a BN prototype.
thank you for all the responses.