Mark R. I take a slighly different approach .... Say somebody has something I've been interested in and it's priced at $100. To me, it's not worth any more than $80. So, out of sight, I pocket my extra cash leaving only $80 cash in my wallet. I then approach the seller ready to deal and offer $75. Obviously, that doesn't fly and he maybe counters with $90. I then open my wallet to count my cash and he clearly sees all I have is $80 (and maybe a couple bucks in change). At this point, he thinks / knows I'm tapped out at $80, so it's either going to be $80 or no sale. Not a guaranteed method, but has worked many times ! Mark.
I take a slighly different approach ....
Say somebody has something I've been interested in and it's priced at $100. To me, it's not worth any more than $80. So, out of sight, I pocket my extra cash leaving only $80 cash in my wallet. I then approach the seller ready to deal and offer $75. Obviously, that doesn't fly and he maybe counters with $90. I then open my wallet to count my cash and he clearly sees all I have is $80 (and maybe a couple bucks in change). At this point, he thinks / knows I'm tapped out at $80, so it's either going to be $80 or no sale.
Not a guaranteed method, but has worked many times !
Mark.
I've done that exact thing. Not really negotiating, I just ran out of money, showed the seller that was all that I had, and he was willing to sell it for what I had on me. I've been 3 for 3 with this method.
I guess haggling goes both ways. If the seller thinks you have more and will buy now or come back later. he may hold out. Not so if he knows you don't have any more.
Got better deals than I expected to get.
I've also considered just putting a small amount in my wallet, and leaving more money in my pocket, then showing my wallet and claiming that was all I had. But that crosses the line between negotiating and out right lying, so I'm happy to say that I haven't done that.
- Douglas
Dear Corey
I've been to about three train shows, and didn't stay longer than forty-five minutes at any of those, so I don't have a feel for buying and selling at such a place.
But I am forty-three years old and have that much experience in this world. He's set up to be a seller to the general public. He should expect a wide variety of responses to what he's selling. You're not obligated to offer him anything at all for what he's selling. You might offer to take a piece home to save him the embarrassment of doing it.
In my opinion, he has all the "right" in the world to get upset. He's a person living in 2012, so who knows how he might respond. He's certainly entitled to his emotions. Whether what you offer him is pleasant, and whether his reaction is pleasant, are not things that must be one way or the other.
That guy might not want to take ten times list price for the piece, or he might be willing to pay for your ticket to the show and parking if you'll save him the trouble of having to keep it. You won't know until you ask. Maybe you asked him to sell it for an amount less than what it's really worth. Gee, would you be the first person to do that in a market-type situation? That guy might threaten to harm you, or he might be just as slick as you are and stick to his price with class.
As a consumer dealing with a retail merchant, there's no way to find fault with your offer. But a retail merchant who needs to be able to get along well with his buying public should have been able to handle your offer without huffing and puffing.
I wouldn't want that fellow representing me.
--Jaddie
alco_fan Going with the "I could get it cheaper on EBay" ploy is probably the reason it went bad. Keep it classy, dude.
Going with the "I could get it cheaper on EBay" ploy is probably the reason it went bad. Keep it classy, dude.
jrbernierI suspect that this was new stock(the MSRP is $100 for that engine). The dealer price is about $60, so selling it for less is a money losing situation unless the dealer has sold lots of them
Jim,The dealers I know that attends train shows is there to make extra money for their shop and to dump old stock..Let's say he has a Athearn CF7 that's been collecting dust since the engine was release he can and will drop the price even if he breaks even or makes 5-10% profit after all that engine is worthless collecting dust in his shop..Of course he is happier if a modeler waltzes up to his table and flops down the full MSRP.
Now recall he is already in the red from the table rent and will need to cover that before covering his other expenses and if he sets on his prices his competitors will beat him out and he will lose money..
Selling at train shows is highly competitive and one better be willing to negotiate prices with prospective buyers or risk losing the sale to another dealer and here's their only trump card..They know 90% of the show's attendees is in such a hurry they won't bother to haggle the price even though they are willing to take less if they are asked..
Make no mistake the dealers know each other by name,they may have had breakfast together that morning and may have even bought items from each other but,once the show opens its all business.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Hi,
No, you were certainly not wrong, but you might have worded your offer better and/or the seller could have used a better mood. Said another way, both of you might have practiced better "tact and diplomacy"
I attended a negotiation class and brought up my Dad's old saying......... "tact and diplomacy all comes down to telling someone to go to hades (spell), and have them look forward to the trip"
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I've been doing shows for about 6 years and it isn't all about the money in my opinion, its the hobby that we are keeping alive. At one show a little boy came to my table and was looking at a Amtrak loco that I had bought from a friend that sold out because of health issues. He said that another vender wanted 30.00 for the loco alone, I asked him how much he had and he said it was birthday money and it was 20.00. His dad was with him and I could see the same look I had when I was his age. I told him for 10.00 I could set him up with everything to run trains, The look was worth more than I made that day and He has been back to the shows to collect more trains. A modeler for life most likely and a friend for life and a warm hand shake from a smiling father is something you can't put a price on. Jim.
Corey,
There are a couple of items to consider:
I did not go to the show today, as it is just a re-hash of the old GATS shows for the most part. I will be making the long trip to Trainfest next week - A lot more stuff!
Jim
Modeling BNSF and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin
All of you are missing one simple negotiation tactic: misdirection. Scan the seller's items, note what you really really want, and start haggling over something other than what you're interested in. Wear him/her down a bit, act ready to walk away, then casually pick up the item you' actually want and start on that one. Nine times out of ten, the seller will fold like fresh laundry. Heartless? Yes. Pisses sellers off? Yes. But it works.
Stu
Streamlined steam, oh, what a dream!!
If you are upper middle aged you might remember the wonderful Myron Cohen, a story teller/comedian who used to appear on the Ed Sullivan show. I still remember this story.
The lady goes to the butcher and says "I'd like a pound of lamb chops." The butcher says, "Sure. They're $8 a pound." The woman yells "$8 a pound! Schwartz has them for $6 a pound." The butcher says "So? Buy from Schwartz." The lady says "Well Schwartz is all out." Butcher says "Lady, if I was all out they'd be $5 a pound."
Dave Nelson
Don't think you did anything wrong. As above, it never hurts to ask. I've picked up a random road name Athearn RS-3 (it was L&N) for $25, I just needed another pwoer chassis so didn;t care what road name the shell had, so keep looking, you may find the one you want for a reasonable price.
On the other hand, my very first Timonium show after my no so voluntary time off from the hobby, in the very first row (when I do that show, I start at the far end and work back towards the middle) was a guy with a NIB Proto 2000 GP7, Reading. Marked at $25, a steal as marked. I immediately picked it up and went to the seller. He looked at the price tag, and said "give me $15 and it's good." Well, I wasn;t going to argue, and so started rebuilding my collection.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
LION bought his first set of subway cars at a train show. They were selling at Trainworld for $120 at the time, and he wanted $110. and I looked at them the way only a LION or a kid short of funds could look at them and then I wandered away.
I came back to look at them again, and then walked away again. I did not really have all that much money with me. But the man said they were mine for 90, and indeed they were!
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I always remember what my father once said,
" A retail price is never written in stone."
It never hurts to make an offer to the seller. It is part of the buyer/seller process.
It appears in your case that a retailer is trying to extend his store prices off site to the train show floor.
When I go to a train show, I expect a price lower than that found within a brick and motar store for a given product.
Bob
I don't think it hurt to ask. I went out Saturday 10:15 to noon, and like Art I didn't see much of anything I wanted, save for a truck tuner, which I intended to grab on my way out. Naturally, I walked right by and went home. Probably should have gone back (only 2 miles from home) but lazy usually wins out. Gary
ctyclsscs And...it's one thing to ask about a discount if you're buying something that's fairly high in value or if you want to purchase multiple items. It's another thing to try and beat the price down on a brand new $3.98 item where the vendor isn't making that much at full list price. Jim
And...it's one thing to ask about a discount if you're buying something that's fairly high in value or if you want to purchase multiple items. It's another thing to try and beat the price down on a brand new $3.98 item where the vendor isn't making that much at full list price.
Jim,$3.98 isn't worth haggling over.I only haggle on the higher price items I also have experience in horse trading and know that the seller probably took that geep in trade,bought from another dealer or from a modeler selling his collection and I suspect his markup is 50-60% above what he paid.
Here's another thing..You start the show in the red(table rent,hotel or motel room,meals gas etc,) and if you having a bad day then you better start dealing just to break even or make a small profit.
Make no mistake on a good day with a nice selection of reasonably price models you can make over $1,200.00.
I'll haggle a little bit sometimes. Depends on the item. Small stuff under $10 I don't want to take the time - I just move on if I don't like the price. If it's a current item and he's already got a decent discount or offers one while I'm looking at it then I'll buy it at that price. Otherwise I'll make an offer if he's close to what I'll pay. Sometimes I'll offer for 2 items together.
What I don't do, is bring in extraneous stuff like what it's selling for on eBay, Micro-Mark, ten years ago, etc. To me that's irrelevant along with what he sold the last one for, his inability to make a living, what he can get for it in Jersey, etc.
But I don't see anything wrong with making a low offer, even it's a fire sale price. He can always say no and you can move on.
Enjoy
Paul
¡ uʍop ǝpısdn sı ǝɹnʇɐuƃıs ʎɯ 'dlǝɥ
One thing about quoting an eBay price is there is always the shipping costs to be added. So the eBay $60.00 price probably would have been higher.
I've never haggled myself, I don't think there is anything wrong with it, its just not something I'm wired to do. A model railroad friend of mine seemed to live to get a deal on everything and anything. That's all he talked about in the hobby, not about modeling, prototype, nothing. All about the great deals he got. To each his own I guess.
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
I'd say that your offer of $60 was better than the other 50 people who may have looked but just moved on. I always offer less than their sticker.
I suppose when you mention what you can get it on ebay for, or point out that the seller is not budging off of msrp, the seller might take it as criticism of his price, rather than just haggling, hence the cold shoulder.
Guys,Haggling is a art..
Here's my method..
Let's say the seller has a Atlas yellow box GP7 for $65.00 since I know my price I start by looking at the Geep and then ask,What's the least you will take for this engine?
Let's say he replies $55.00.
I will counter would you take $50.00 cash?
I find 90% of the time its the delivery.
What I hate is the following.Same geep.
What's the least you will take for this engine?
Seller:: Make me a offer.
You see he has the advantage and will haggle the price up so,I lowball 'I'm by offering (say) $40.00.
He will offer a counter-probably $55.00,I counter $50.00 and most of the time its a done deal.
Remember this..Be fair,polite and be nonchalant.The worst thing you can do is look like you're chomping at the bits to take that model home.
One dealer wouldn't back off his counter offer so I said,"Let me think about it" and started to walk off..I bought the engine at my price offer.I made it about 5 steps before he called me back and we closed the deal.
I've generally found that large dealers aren't usually willing to negotiate on prices but smaller sellers such as individuals clearing out their extra stuff or small dealers are more willing to accept less than the marked price. I've even had people offer items at a lower price late in the day or if something's an oddball item that no one else has shown interest in. Your mileage may vary.
Bill
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig"
Train shows in my area,when i look at something long enough the seller most of the time will say he will do better on the price.
Russell
You offered what it was worth to you. He stated what it was worth to him. If you can't come to terms there is no sale. He has no right to be upset no matter what you offered. You have no right to be upset that he refused your offer. Move on.
Dave
Lackawanna Route of the Phoebe Snow
I've never haggled but i don't think you did the wrong thing. it seems pretty simple to me they got three options 1. you could buy for less than what they want. 2. they may never sell it because you walk away and nobody else bothers looking at it. 3. in the event that somebody doe buy it, the seller may have to go through the same situation.
there may be more but I'm not really gonna play the what if game.
SP&S modeler, 1960's give or take a decade or two for some equipment.
http://www.youtube.com/user/SGTDUPREY?feature=guide
Gary DuPrey
N scale model railroader
You're one up on me. I was there, sorry I didn't see you, and I didn't even see anything to bid on. I went to Beckers to get what I needed and went home. I have had good luck with bidding at flea markets by NEVER at a show.
AntonioFP45 Hello Secondhand, I had a similar experience to yours when at a train show I saw a Walthers structure kit that I had been looking for. The seller had it priced MSRP at $24 and I offered $15 and willing to go as high as $18. When I pointed out that her price was msrp, she became irritated and made it clear that she wasn't going to budge on the price so I simply said "Ok," and I walked away. I don't think you were wrong for offering a lower amount, however, it sounds like the seller you were dealing with became pretty irritated when you quoted ebay and you didn't sympathize with him after he stated that he had to "pay tax" on the item. Expect that reactions like his come with the territory, so you have to be emotionally prepared to deal with it. Some sellers are quite flexible and willing to negotiate, while others have the charm of Fred Flintstone on a diet. To be fair to the sellers, consider what happens at these train shows. Typically a number of modelers show up expecting "super sweet deals". So, following hours of haggling with buyers, it stands to reason that some of the sellers become a bit irritable after a while. I've seen it happen at train shows in my neck of the woods. When I see a model I want and decide to negotiate, I greet the seller in a friendly manner to gauge his/her attitude. I don't try and pounce a deal right away. Re your comment: "They aren't even making that anymore". Loosely, that's a Catch-22 statement in our hobby. Remember that (thanks to outsourcing and Limited Runs) a number of "run of the mill" models that were produced just a few years ago that are no longer made are still sought after. The Athearn RTR FRISCO SD45 with the L-shape windshield comes to mind as does the Atlas U30C in the Rock Island scheme. Currently they rarely show up on ebay and when they do, you'll see quite a number of bids on those. So, in some cases, sellers are willing to hang on to some of those out-of-production units and only drop the prices to unload them when a manufacturer announces that a new batch of that particular model will be produced. Watch how fast ebay fills up with the older run version then! I remember years back when Athearn stopped producing the old Blue Box FP45 in the red & silver War Bonnet scheme. Some were selling at $75-$80 on ebay. When the Genesis version was announced, virtually piles of BB FP45s showed up on ebay for days on end, lol! I remember seeing some going for $14.
Hello Secondhand,
I had a similar experience to yours when at a train show I saw a Walthers structure kit that I had been looking for. The seller had it priced MSRP at $24 and I offered $15 and willing to go as high as $18. When I pointed out that her price was msrp, she became irritated and made it clear that she wasn't going to budge on the price so I simply said "Ok," and I walked away.
I don't think you were wrong for offering a lower amount, however, it sounds like the seller you were dealing with became pretty irritated when you quoted ebay and you didn't sympathize with him after he stated that he had to "pay tax" on the item.
Expect that reactions like his come with the territory, so you have to be emotionally prepared to deal with it. Some sellers are quite flexible and willing to negotiate, while others have the charm of Fred Flintstone on a diet.
To be fair to the sellers, consider what happens at these train shows. Typically a number of modelers show up expecting "super sweet deals". So, following hours of haggling with buyers, it stands to reason that some of the sellers become a bit irritable after a while. I've seen it happen at train shows in my neck of the woods.
When I see a model I want and decide to negotiate, I greet the seller in a friendly manner to gauge his/her attitude. I don't try and pounce a deal right away.
Re your comment: "They aren't even making that anymore".
Loosely, that's a Catch-22 statement in our hobby. Remember that (thanks to outsourcing and Limited Runs) a number of "run of the mill" models that were produced just a few years ago that are no longer made are still sought after. The Athearn RTR FRISCO SD45 with the L-shape windshield comes to mind as does the Atlas U30C in the Rock Island scheme. Currently they rarely show up on ebay and when they do, you'll see quite a number of bids on those.
So, in some cases, sellers are willing to hang on to some of those out-of-production units and only drop the prices to unload them when a manufacturer announces that a new batch of that particular model will be produced. Watch how fast ebay fills up with the older run version then!
I remember years back when Athearn stopped producing the old Blue Box FP45 in the red & silver War Bonnet scheme. Some were selling at $75-$80 on ebay. When the Genesis version was announced, virtually piles of BB FP45s showed up on ebay for days on end, lol! I remember seeing some going for $14.
AntonioFP45 I don't think you were wrong for offering a lower amount, however, it sounds like the seller you were dealing with became pretty irritated when you quoted ebay and you didn't sympathize with him after he stated that he had to "pay tax" on the item.
I didn't bring up ebay until the end of the conversation. The show was the Great Train Expo with mainly Minnesota dealers. This guy had a hobby shop here in Minnesota I guess so I suppose that WAS a good price to him. I was friendly about it and said, "I don't suppose you'd take $60 cash, would you?" It was the beginning of a two day show so my timing probably stunk!
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"