Paul_in_GA Ken, it has 15 and 18 inch turns. This is just the first layout done on a 4 x 8 sheet and it will teach me a lot. After it is completed I will put it away or tear it down and build a better one and will have learned something in the process. Plus it'll go up pretty fast. I'm not gonna use ALL WS stuff, just the stuff I can't make myself. I'll use the building foam for sure.
Ken, it has 15 and 18 inch turns. This is just the first layout done on a 4 x 8 sheet and it will teach me a lot. After it is completed I will put it away or tear it down and build a better one and will have learned something in the process. Plus it'll go up pretty fast.
I'm not gonna use ALL WS stuff, just the stuff I can't make myself. I'll use the building foam for sure.
Paul, before you buy anything more () stake the track down on the plywood and see what happens with the tight turns. I still think they will bite you in the caboose!
Your Friend Ken
I hate Rust
cudaken Paul, this is the time you should have up the fact the Atlas Layout Kit you bought has 15 radius turns! While your Roundhouse 2-8-0 and switcher will make the turn I think in the long run they will be a mistake. Have you tried any of the engines with rolling stock in tow? Have you tried to work in the 12 inch clearness you are allowing your self? (I am assuming he has got his lumber) per our phone conversazione. Sorry about hijacking the thread! When Paul and I talk, half the time it is about cars. Ken
Paul, this is the time you should have up the fact the Atlas Layout Kit you bought has 15 radius turns! While your Roundhouse 2-8-0 and switcher will make the turn I think in the long run they will be a mistake. Have you tried any of the engines with rolling stock in tow?
Have you tried to work in the 12 inch clearness you are allowing your self? (I am assuming he has got his lumber) per our phone conversazione.
Sorry about hijacking the thread! When Paul and I talk, half the time it is about cars.
Ken
Paul_in_GA I have discovered that this hobby isn't just one hobby, it's a million hobbies in one.
I have discovered that this hobby isn't just one hobby, it's a million hobbies in one.
Amen.
And, a whole bunch of skills - - - carpenter, electrician, artist, designer, builder, landcaper, you name it.
Rich
Alton Junction
CTValleyRR First of all, Gents, while the car pix are cool, it's a textbook thread hijack. Please start your own thread somewhere else. To return to the subject at hand: I hope, Paul, that you are off building some small layout somewhere. You are right in that there is a LOT to learn. But your brain is probably like ours: it can't possibly absorb the huge volume of information being thrown at it. This is why it's so critical that you get out and build something, doing as many parts as possible -- benchwork, foundation, tracklaying, scenery (as many different things as possible), and operations. This allows you to do two things: 1) break the process down into bite-sized pieces, and 2) some of the information and techniques will be acquired, so you don't have to think about them next time around. You can read a bunch of stuff on benchwork construction, then go build it. You will make some mistakes (like forgetting bracing, leveling, not allowing space for cross members, etc.). As long as it functions, don't worry about mistakes. Next time you do it, you won't be worried about basic screw-and-glue techniques (because your brain will have already learned them), and you can focus on getting it level. Or whatever. Then you can tackle the Plywood vs. Foam debate for your foundation. If you build it with foam, you will encounter certain issues, which may lead you to want to try plywood next time, and vice versa. So I hope, by this time, you've abandoned the "one time and perfect" approach. In this hobby, a lot of the fun is in the journey.
First of all, Gents, while the car pix are cool, it's a textbook thread hijack. Please start your own thread somewhere else.
To return to the subject at hand: I hope, Paul, that you are off building some small layout somewhere. You are right in that there is a LOT to learn. But your brain is probably like ours: it can't possibly absorb the huge volume of information being thrown at it. This is why it's so critical that you get out and build something, doing as many parts as possible -- benchwork, foundation, tracklaying, scenery (as many different things as possible), and operations.
This allows you to do two things: 1) break the process down into bite-sized pieces, and 2) some of the information and techniques will be acquired, so you don't have to think about them next time around.
You can read a bunch of stuff on benchwork construction, then go build it. You will make some mistakes (like forgetting bracing, leveling, not allowing space for cross members, etc.). As long as it functions, don't worry about mistakes. Next time you do it, you won't be worried about basic screw-and-glue techniques (because your brain will have already learned them), and you can focus on getting it level. Or whatever. Then you can tackle the Plywood vs. Foam debate for your foundation. If you build it with foam, you will encounter certain issues, which may lead you to want to try plywood next time, and vice versa.
So I hope, by this time, you've abandoned the "one time and perfect" approach. In this hobby, a lot of the fun is in the journey.
I agree. So this is what I have done so far. Got the room prepped.
Bought all the hardware I need to make a perfect 4 x 8 table, buying the wood tomorrow. Building the table will be nothing for me as I have been doing that for 40 years.
I now have a bunch of track including turnouts.
I have three locos and some rolling stock.
I am going to build the WS layout from the DVD & companion book.
I am starting small, 4 x 8. I have ideas now of what I want later but for now I'm just taking it one step at a time.
Getting together all the materials has been the problem.
First I build the table tomorrow. Then I lay track on the flat of the table and run trains.
I have already learned how to program CV's, install modules, install couplers, and ran the trains successfully.
One step at a time.
After the track is down then I will get the WS risers and foam system according to their parts list. This will give me a lot of experience.
So I'm well on my way, and happy about it. In the meantime, I read all the books I have accumulated, highlight what I think is important, and keep plugging away.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
I was GM all the way w/ all my Chevelles (SS375/396, LS5 and 6) they were great cars but once going to MOPAR, there was no going back. I just love those 340s, My 69 GTS would run circles around my Chevelle LS6 and w/ far less headaches. But that Chevelle could handle, yet ride like a Caddy.
Always loved the "Vette", but thought it too impractrical for my use. Even had someone want to swap my Chevelle LS6 out for a '63 split window- boy was I really "stupid" in my youth. Why would I want an old Corvette needing tons of work and give up a car w/ 6k on it. Dah, was I an idiot! He even had the Rotchester mechanical injection off the Vette and stored in a garage. Say Rare Vette?
Matbe we should get back to the other hobby, trains I think!
Modeling B&O- Chessie Bob K. www.ssmrc.org
Paul_in_GA Eric97123 richhotrain Paul_in_GA I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there. You do that, Paul in GA, and you will have become a model railroader. Rich I agree.. and by laying a main line down you will then get an idea of how much space you have to work with and what space you have left over to put things. You will find what on paper looks good will not work in real life and what looks like it is too crowded on paper is actually more than enough room to add a siding or a building. Very few folks have every detail planned out on paper actually put it all down on the layout. On my layout just last week I moved a few trees, moved a couple building and added a couple sidings, Now I have a new grain facility and my pond looks a lot better with more trees around it. When I started my current layout a couple years ago I had some general ideas but once I got the mainline down I could then seen what I got to work with. I think I'm JUST beginning to get the hang of it. Today I actually recieved John Armstrong's book and BOY, and I mean BOY OH BOY!!!! do I have a LOT to learn. Man, this can get complicated.
Eric97123 richhotrain Paul_in_GA I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there. You do that, Paul in GA, and you will have become a model railroader. Rich I agree.. and by laying a main line down you will then get an idea of how much space you have to work with and what space you have left over to put things. You will find what on paper looks good will not work in real life and what looks like it is too crowded on paper is actually more than enough room to add a siding or a building. Very few folks have every detail planned out on paper actually put it all down on the layout. On my layout just last week I moved a few trees, moved a couple building and added a couple sidings, Now I have a new grain facility and my pond looks a lot better with more trees around it. When I started my current layout a couple years ago I had some general ideas but once I got the mainline down I could then seen what I got to work with.
richhotrain Paul_in_GA I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there. You do that, Paul in GA, and you will have become a model railroader. Rich
Paul_in_GA I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there.
I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there.
You do that, Paul in GA, and you will have become a model railroader.
I agree.. and by laying a main line down you will then get an idea of how much space you have to work with and what space you have left over to put things. You will find what on paper looks good will not work in real life and what looks like it is too crowded on paper is actually more than enough room to add a siding or a building. Very few folks have every detail planned out on paper actually put it all down on the layout. On my layout just last week I moved a few trees, moved a couple building and added a couple sidings, Now I have a new grain facility and my pond looks a lot better with more trees around it. When I started my current layout a couple years ago I had some general ideas but once I got the mainline down I could then seen what I got to work with.
I think I'm JUST beginning to get the hang of it. Today I actually recieved John Armstrong's book and BOY, and I mean BOY OH BOY!!!! do I have a LOT to learn. Man, this can get complicated.
Don't worry, you'll get the hang of it. I started with a rather complicated layout right out the door, and while not my best idea, I am doing alright. If there is one thing that I would change about it, I would add a staging yard to my layout, to make less of a headache of removing and adding trains to a layout.
The Lehigh Valley Railroad, the Route of the Black Diamond Express, John Wilkes and Maple Leaf.
-Jake, modeling the Barclay, Towanda & Susquehanna.
Colorado_Mac cudaken Paul_in_GA I restore Corvettes and airplanes YOU ARE A CHEVY PERSON, DEAL OFF! Being a Mopar Person you are the enemy! Oh, c'mon ken. The coolest cars GM makes are Corvettes! "Mopar or No Car (unless it's a 'Vette)"
cudaken Paul_in_GA I restore Corvettes and airplanes YOU ARE A CHEVY PERSON, DEAL OFF! Being a Mopar Person you are the enemy!
Paul_in_GA I restore Corvettes and airplanes
YOU ARE A CHEVY PERSON, DEAL OFF! Being a Mopar Person you are the enemy!
Oh, c'mon ken. The coolest cars GM makes are Corvettes! "Mopar or No Car (unless it's a 'Vette)"
Nice pics. Seems there's a lot of Mopar people here. I'm just a Vette fanatic. Have been since I was a kid. Someone could GIVE me a (fill in the blank) very expensive car and to me it would be a yawner. I'd just trade it in on Vettes. You don't drive a Vette you wear one. LOL!
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler
John, It is a real Daytona of a friend of mine I helped with, it was one of three sent to Canada. It is the only other Charger I worked on that had more Rust than my R/T. R/T in my case stood for Rusted Trash! Only thing that did not rust was the glass!
I was going to make my Charger a Daytona Clone.
But the person that was making the parts moved like a snail. I pulled the 70 Charger front clip (69 Daytona's used 1970 sheet metal) and other parts and sold them after waiting 2 years, and bought the GMC 6-71.
Here is another Real Daytona I did at my shop. It is a 1 owner!
Sadly I have worked on and driven 4 real Daytona's, but none for me!
Cuda Ken
I've modified my track plan a couple times since building my layout--even to the point of tearing up Kato track that had been glued to foam insulation sheet with Liquid Nails--and I subsequently threw away all my Kato (manual) turnouts except one remaining number 6 turnout that is in a trailing position. (I was experiencing voltage drop across the turnouts--after a couple years in place they did not conduct electric current reliably, and playing with the hand throw to try to improve the voltage drop was becoming more and more of a challenge. With the turnouts gone, everything runs very well now with no engine stalling.
Needless to say my trackplan is ridiculously simple for most people, and I'm hoping to make up for it as the scenery (an ongoing work) improves.
John
Cudaken--
Ok, now you've done it. I always wanted a Charger R/T but am not handy with cars at all--I'd have to buy a good driver that was already redone...
But is that really your Daytona? Is it a real Daytona, or a modified regular Charger?
Sorry train fans--I had to know!
YOU ARE A CHEVY PERSON, DEAL's OFF! Being a Mopar Person you are the enemy!
OK, I will still help, after all if it was not for Belly Buttons I would not have anyone to pick on!
If you do your own body and paint (I ran a body shop for 20 years) there some tricks from that trade that helped me with model railroading.
Talk to you Thursday.
PS, I would not have posted the car pictures here, but you cannot send photos in conversations.
Dont try to run before you can walk.. MRRing is not hard.. but don't bite off more than you can chew. Start with a loop first, you are going DCC right out the door and it can be a bit frustrating at first until you get the hang of your system, how the CV's work, how to consist locos and speed match them if they run at different speeds. You don't need to build an empire right out the door, or even pick and era or railroad. Spend this time tuning your skills. I have found there is almost no right or wrong way of doing a model railroad, just some ways work better than other.
Colorado_Mac Paul_in_GA I'm just gonna start real small and keep plugging away at it till I get it. Perfect. Paul_in_GA My problem is I'm EXTREMELY logic-based like Mr. Spock so when it comes to creative, artistic stuff I'm almost at a loss. I will just have to wing it. It's amazing the amount of logic/creativity overlap that most endeavors have. I write novels, play jazz, used to code software, I've restored old muscle cars and - of course - I model railroads. Each one lies somewhere different on the scale from purely logical to purely artistic, but all require both and by jumping in and doing, I've improved my skill sets in each area. After reading all your posts in this thread, I'm pretty sure you're going to love this hobby and thrive. I'm looking forward to seeing that CSX diesel hauling some cars, even if it's just around a circle of track on the floor!
Paul_in_GA I'm just gonna start real small and keep plugging away at it till I get it.
I'm just gonna start real small and keep plugging away at it till I get it.
Paul_in_GA My problem is I'm EXTREMELY logic-based like Mr. Spock so when it comes to creative, artistic stuff I'm almost at a loss. I will just have to wing it.
Holy cow! I could have written these words. I too started in the 80's with computers, self taught every language out there, I restore Corvettes and airplanes, I write novels, two in the works right now! Amazing coincidence!
cudaken Paul, that is what I did! What I did on my last section is I found a plan that would fit on to the spaces I was adding. Started building, saw a fair good sizes spaces where there was nothing and decided I need a Coal Mine! What I plan on doing with you is help avoid some of the pit falls and making the mistakes I did on my way. While I am going to do a plan for you, once you get started you may go "Hey, I think this will look better over there". I strongly recommend getting some sectional track and start running your engine and pulling your car. On rolling stock, look on E Bay and look for Athearn Blue Box cars. I am guessing you paid around $25.00 for the one car you bought. Athearn no longer makes there Blue Box Kits, most of us here grew up with them and they where the standards of there time. When I started there kit's where in the $4.00 to $7.00 range. While not super detailed they look fine and work well with a little work. Just watch shipping cost, a bargain can easily be lost with stupid shipping cost. Be thinking about what industry you want on the railroad. I know you want a coal mine, we all do! Start looking at buildings! Far as coal mine I really like the Walther's http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3017 Took me 10 to 15 hours to build. But,I did paint all the window sills, that took some time! So if you get a little bored with running your engine, you can build buildings Will talk to you soon. Ken
Paul, that is what I did! What I did on my last section is I found a plan that would fit on to the spaces I was adding. Started building, saw a fair good sizes spaces where there was nothing and decided I need a Coal Mine!
What I plan on doing with you is help avoid some of the pit falls and making the mistakes I did on my way. While I am going to do a plan for you, once you get started you may go "Hey, I think this will look better over there".
I strongly recommend getting some sectional track and start running your engine and pulling your car.
On rolling stock, look on E Bay and look for Athearn Blue Box cars. I am guessing you paid around $25.00 for the one car you bought. Athearn no longer makes there Blue Box Kits, most of us here grew up with them and they where the standards of there time. When I started there kit's where in the $4.00 to $7.00 range. While not super detailed they look fine and work well with a little work. Just watch shipping cost, a bargain can easily be lost with stupid shipping cost.
Be thinking about what industry you want on the railroad. I know you want a coal mine, we all do! Start looking at buildings! Far as coal mine I really like the Walther's
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/933-3017
Took me 10 to 15 hours to build. But,I did paint all the window sills, that took some time!
So if you get a little bored with running your engine, you can build buildings
Will talk to you soon.
VERY nice! I like it.
steinjr Paul -- Relax. This is a hobby. Something you do to relax and have fun. Not something that has to be perfect from the get-go. Nothing catastrophic will happen if you have to redo some things or if you decide that you want to do some things in a different way. The challenge of wanting to get plans extremely detailed (down to step-by-step checklists) before you start is that it takes a long time, and you will still miss things. It takes many iterations to make fairly bullet proof detailed check lists. It is usually worth the effort if you are spending billions and risking human lives to land humans on the moon or if you are starting up a nuclear power station, but not to build a model railroad. It is usually more important to learn to recover from mistakes, and to not be afraid to experiment a bit. If you want to build scenery - build scenery. Don't expect the first iteration to be perfect. The next iteration will be better. The next one after that even better. If you want to run trains in a loop, run trains in a loop. If not, don't. There are dozens or hundreds or thousands of ways to do things - there is no single correct way that is the only acceptable way. Others can suggest some approaches that has worked for them, but if you don't want to do it that way, try something else. Most approaches lead to some result. Most approaches lead to learning. Smile, Stein
Paul --
Relax. This is a hobby. Something you do to relax and have fun. Not something that has to be perfect from the get-go. Nothing catastrophic will happen if you have to redo some things or if you decide that you want to do some things in a different way. The challenge of wanting to get plans extremely detailed (down to step-by-step checklists) before you start is that it takes a long time, and you will still miss things. It takes many iterations to make fairly bullet proof detailed check lists. It is usually worth the effort if you are spending billions and risking human lives to land humans on the moon or if you are starting up a nuclear power station, but not to build a model railroad.
It is usually more important to learn to recover from mistakes, and to not be afraid to experiment a bit. If you want to build scenery - build scenery. Don't expect the first iteration to be perfect. The next iteration will be better. The next one after that even better.
If you want to run trains in a loop, run trains in a loop. If not, don't. There are dozens or hundreds or thousands of ways to do things - there is no single correct way that is the only acceptable way.
Others can suggest some approaches that has worked for them, but if you don't want to do it that way, try something else. Most approaches lead to some result. Most approaches lead to learning.
Smile, Stein
I'm just gonna start real small and keep plugging away at it till I get it. My problem is I'm EXTREMELY logic-based like Mr. Spock so when it comes to creative, artistic stuff I'm almost at a loss. I will just have to wing it.
NeO6874 Paul_in_GA Well, this is Paul. I KNOW I lack .. (stuff) Stein's comments weren't directed (entirely) at you. 1. You're focused on the details (landscape, etc), but have no reason for a railroad to exist other than "I kinda want to use these trains I got from the LHS". Now, in the other thread you mentioned a coal company of some sort (amongst other things). A small railroad hauling coal from "Black Lung Coal Mining, Inc." down a mountain to "Hades' Coal and Heating Co." in Somewhereville, USA has a purpose for existing, which will be more "fun" than just watching your U23B or GE 44-tonner go roundy-roundy on a table (not that there's anything wrong with roundy-roundy. -- but it's outgrown extremely fast). 2. This one's definitely not directed at you 3. I can understand having a plan ... and having a plan helps a lot, but as with anything, your plan will change the minute you make your first cut in the plywood (or foam, or whatever). Just look at any of the Discovery Channel "specials" on making a new ship or building or something -- how many times does "so, yeah ... these two sub-assemblies are supposed to fit together, but the pipes/bulkheads/whatever aren't lining up correctly, so they've had to get one of the guys to burn away some of the offending pieces so these two sub-assemblies can fit together". Dead-on accurate can be done with your wiring or your benchwork ... but as soon as you're getting to trackwork/scenery (which is more of an "art" than anything), you'll find that sometimes aesthetics (or simply visibility) force your hand in how things are placed. For example, let's say we have this scene ====\\ <--siding=========== <-- track+++<- some building (which blocks your view of the siding/turnout)---------- <-- road/parking lot/whatever Bet it looked great on paper, and might have even looked great on the layout ... but "looks" go to pot the second (or third, or whatever) time that you smash into a car that you didn't see on the siding and break something... or even worse, think the turnout (switch) is set for the main, when you've accidentally set it to the siding, and hit it with a double/triple-headed consist of locomotives and rip up the scenery/building/etc. So, you modify the plan+++++ <-- Building ------------- <- road/parkinglot=====\\ <-- siding || <-- road===============||==== <-- mainline (road crossing shown with "||" )------------------------------------------------- <-- road (edit) Or even this: +++++ <-- Building ------------- <- road/parkinglot===============||==== <-- mainline (road crossing shown with "||" )=====// <-- siding || <-- road------------------------------------------------- <-- road Now, you can see the siding, AND have been able to incorporate a grade crossing that you might not have had otherwise...
Paul_in_GA Well, this is Paul. I KNOW I lack .. (stuff)
Well, this is Paul. I KNOW I lack .. (stuff)
Stein's comments weren't directed (entirely) at you.
1. You're focused on the details (landscape, etc), but have no reason for a railroad to exist other than "I kinda want to use these trains I got from the LHS". Now, in the other thread you mentioned a coal company of some sort (amongst other things). A small railroad hauling coal from "Black Lung Coal Mining, Inc." down a mountain to "Hades' Coal and Heating Co." in Somewhereville, USA has a purpose for existing, which will be more "fun" than just watching your U23B or GE 44-tonner go roundy-roundy on a table (not that there's anything wrong with roundy-roundy. -- but it's outgrown extremely fast).
2. This one's definitely not directed at you
3. I can understand having a plan ... and having a plan helps a lot, but as with anything, your plan will change the minute you make your first cut in the plywood (or foam, or whatever). Just look at any of the Discovery Channel "specials" on making a new ship or building or something -- how many times does "so, yeah ... these two sub-assemblies are supposed to fit together, but the pipes/bulkheads/whatever aren't lining up correctly, so they've had to get one of the guys to burn away some of the offending pieces so these two sub-assemblies can fit together".
Dead-on accurate can be done with your wiring or your benchwork ... but as soon as you're getting to trackwork/scenery (which is more of an "art" than anything), you'll find that sometimes aesthetics (or simply visibility) force your hand in how things are placed. For example, let's say we have this scene
====\\ <--siding=========== <-- track+++<- some building (which blocks your view of the siding/turnout)---------- <-- road/parking lot/whatever
Bet it looked great on paper, and might have even looked great on the layout ... but "looks" go to pot the second (or third, or whatever) time that you smash into a car that you didn't see on the siding and break something... or even worse, think the turnout (switch) is set for the main, when you've accidentally set it to the siding, and hit it with a double/triple-headed consist of locomotives and rip up the scenery/building/etc.
So, you modify the plan+++++ <-- Building ------------- <- road/parkinglot=====\\ <-- siding || <-- road===============||==== <-- mainline (road crossing shown with "||" )------------------------------------------------- <-- road
(edit) Or even this:
+++++ <-- Building ------------- <- road/parkinglot===============||==== <-- mainline (road crossing shown with "||" )=====// <-- siding || <-- road------------------------------------------------- <-- road
Now, you can see the siding, AND have been able to incorporate a grade crossing that you might not have had otherwise...
I like your coal idea. I just got a little perturbed, sorry, was having a very bad day. Sometimes this model RR stuff is really intimidating. I think I'm just gonna lay some track in a circle and go from there.
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
I'd say that the core challenges are 1) that Paul still lacks a basic understanding of railroads and model railroading, so he lacks the ability to distinguish between conceptual issues and details. His focus is still on details - like how soon he can get to using his Woodland Scenics inclines, risers and other products, or how to draw a curve with a given radius, and not so much on the overall concept of his layout,
Paul probably should read e.g Pelle Soeborg's book on scenery (since that is what seemingly inspires him the most - and that could let him get started quickly building a couple of small mountain railroading dioramas) and John Armstrong's book on track planning (to learn more about the basic concepts of railroads and model railroad track planning). Maybe also Tony Koester's book on Mountain Railroading - also for inspiration.
2) he gets conflicting advice in two different threads, much of it from people who don't listen and ask questions to try to get him to decide on what he wants to do, but instead just jumps in and tell him what he should do based on their preferences,
and
3) he is seemingly (from my point of view) somewhat overly focused on getting together a very detailed step by step exact plan, so everything will be perfect from the get-go - no mistakes, no deviations from the plan, no experimentation. Model railroading doesn't normally work that way - it is an iterative creative process where there is quite a bit of improvisation and changes as you go along, and where it is very normal to tear a part out again and start over in a different way or to change your goals.
Some people like to dive right in and start improvising, others make more detailed plans, but most understand that the plan and the layout may have to be changed as you go.
Anyways - just some random thoughts on the subject. Hope I have not stepped on anyone's toes too badly. Smile, Stein
Well, this is Paul. I KNOW I lack the level of understanding you do, you were in my shoes once you know!
I'm trying to LEARN all this stuff, I even have learning kits coming. So I can LEARN! I also bought John Armstrong's book.
What's wrong with wanting a detailed plan? It can be done. What's so wrong with my approcah in that I like to follow detailed plans? Every single item on this Earth was designed before building it. I just don't want to waste a ton of money over and over again.
Yeah, my toes were stepped on, but I can handle it. I mean I came here for advice. Just because I'm new and ask questions you don't have to slam me about it. I can do it. I have done a lot of things in my life especially when people told me I couldn't. Nothing gets me angrier than when someone tells me you can't do this or that.
Remember, you too were new at this once. I'm still trying to get a feel for what I'd like to do and I still have a lot of the books all of you recommended I buy on order.
cudaken Paul, I could not open the picture in conversions so I opened it here. Ken
Paul, I could not open the picture in conversions so I opened it here.
Try re-drawing the desk in scale. It is a lot bigger than you get an impression of in Paul's drawing. See e.g my to-scale concept drawings illustrating a couple of possible ways of fitting a layout with 24" radius curves into the room in the other thread Paul has running in the Layouts forum:
Hey
Charles I'm hardly the one to tell anyone how to load pictures, but I joined Photobucket and created an album.
I click on the photo I want, to in large it, then click on image link, this copies the link I then come back to my post where I paste it in the insert image thing. Click insert and Bingo! I open two pages , one for Model railroad and one for Photobucket.
Happy railroading.
Lee