ATLANTIC CENTRAL I think they will go out of business within a year. All the skeptics said that about Athearn when Horizon bought them and pulled Athearn from all the distributors, including Walthers - Athearn is doing better now than they have in 15 years. Sheldon
I think they will go out of business within a year.
All the skeptics said that about Athearn when Horizon bought them and pulled Athearn from all the distributors, including Walthers - Athearn is doing better now than they have in 15 years.
Sheldon
pastorbob I feel fortunate that having been in this hobby (HO) that is since 1957, I have about all the trains and related "stuff" secure in my basement, and at my age I will just enjoy it. I even have unopened kits that I can pull out and build, the railroad is running well, I have track supplies, extra decoders, life is good. So I can disregard the Sheldons who have the world of business all figured out and locked up. I do feel sorry for the newbies in the hobby who will not have the access that my generation has had to materials. Back to the days of only a few companies controlling the hobby. I can be honest and I don't care or I can be compassionate and feel sorry for those who will never enjoy the hobby the way I have. Life ain't so good some of the time. Bob
I feel fortunate that having been in this hobby (HO) that is since 1957, I have about all the trains and related "stuff" secure in my basement, and at my age I will just enjoy it. I even have unopened kits that I can pull out and build, the railroad is running well, I have track supplies, extra decoders, life is good. So I can disregard the Sheldons who have the world of business all figured out and locked up.
I do feel sorry for the newbies in the hobby who will not have the access that my generation has had to materials. Back to the days of only a few companies controlling the hobby. I can be honest and I don't care or I can be compassionate and feel sorry for those who will never enjoy the hobby the way I have.
Life ain't so good some of the time.
Bob
Bob,Old dogs like us has seen the many changes in the hobby over the years from the death of cheap brass locomotives and locomotive kits to the end of the BB kits and this direct sales is the next coming thing we are going to witness either that or a $100.00 RTR flat car and a $299.99 DCC ready diesel locomotive will soon be on the horizon since manufacturers are in the business to make money for the owner(s)..At those prices there won't be that many newbies entering the hobby.
I fully believe the manufacturers needs to find a way to hold prices and still make a profit so that mythical $100.00 RTR flat car or $299.99 DCC ready diesel locomotive doesn't become a reality..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
CP5415The costs have risen for this hobby because of all the RTR items we allegedly wanted.
There will always be a high end. Fortunately as has been discussed ad-nauseum on this forum there are many manufacturers catering to a more budget conscious modeller.
IMO Exactrail did not go direct initially because they discovered that you can significantly increase volume when you sign up a bunch of retailers and sell them inventory for their shelves. Once you have established a market presence and have hoisted yourself up on the back of the retailer then you can drop them and go direct. This happens all the time in many industries. It is very hard indeed to build a market presence on your own with nothing but a web retail site and a monthly advertisement in the hobby press.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Marketing costs can run as high as 50% to 70% particularly when you include packaging, freight from China, sales, returns, customer service, advertising, instructions, etc. The price of oil is driving a lot of this. I work with Chinese companies and their costs are going up a lot from labor and oil. Oil is used in the production of plastic, transportation--touches a lot of areas in mfg and distribution.
The idea of kit vs complete unit is valid and so if Exactrail offered a kit, they could cut prices to the end users--Proto and many others have done this as pointed out earlier. So, this is not ONLY a cost driven decision, it has to reflect their customer base which has been willing to pay a pretty high price already for a complete unit. It would be surprising if they didn't do customer research before the announcement. Ebay and other online sites have been threatening LHSs for a while. Just look at Best Buy and how they are restructuring to fight the same kind of issues from a consumer point of view.
They will need to advertise more however since there won't be anything to see when I walk through the aisles of the many LHSs I visit in a year.
Richard
Richard,ExactRail does make undecorated kits for few dollars less then a decorate car.
As a example.
The undec kit.
http://www.exactrail.com/p-s-5344-box-car-undecorated-kit
The decorated RTR.
http://www.exactrail.com/p-s-5344-box-car-tm
A $6.00 difference in price-just about enough to cover the decals but,not the needed paint..
Would the decorated kits sell? Probably if there was more then $6.00 in price between the kit and RTR..
Exactrail is trying to survive in an industry that is evolving. They are employing a proven business strategy that should allow them to remain in business.
Is it a popular strategy? Probably not if you own a hobby shop. But if you enjoy owning/operating Exactrail equipment, the chances are you will like their direct-to-consumer strategy.
None of us like the disappearance of LHSs. But if we are to remain active consumers in the hobby, we may have to adjust our personal preferences.
I don't think I own any Exactrail equipment. But it has made me look at their website; and I must say that I like their 4427 covered hoppers. So, an unintended consequence of their action has gotten them a potential customer.
Exactrail's cars are very good. I have a large number. But I don't like it when I need or want an item and find out it is all sold out. But then I go to a dealers list (currently) and find exactly what I want at a lower price. That is the story to date. Exactrail seems to be trying to now take it all back under their control, but I for one will not order when the item I want is "out of stock".
ExactRail does make nice stuff, and in my opinion, it's among the best of the current makers. The guys that went into and formed ER had years of experience with Athearn and others and were able to take all that experience and design equal or better cars.
What I like is ExactRail is offering a lot of 1970's and 1980's freight cars such as the PC&F beer cars, the 5200 50' double door box cars, the 3-bay grain hoppers, the Vert-a-pac's. I've gotten 2 or more of most of those so far and am planning on adding more while I can and before this Direct Order thing kicks in. So far things I'm interested has all come out from them and I still need catching up. If ER does something going forward I really really want, I'll probably get one or two but mostly things they've already run.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
riogrande5761 ExactRail does make nice stuff, and in my opinion, it's among the best of the current makers. The guys that went into and formed ER had years of experience with Athearn and others and were able to take all that experience and design equal or better cars. What I like is ExactRail is offering a lot of 1970's and 1980's freight cars such as the PC&F beer cars, the 5200 50' double door box cars, the 3-bay grain hoppers, the Vert-a-pac's. I've gotten 2 or more of most of those so far and am planning on adding more while I can and before this Direct Order thing kicks in. So far things I'm interested has all come out from them and I still need catching up. If ER does something going forward I really really want, I'll probably get one or two but mostly things they've already run.
Then there's the Southern PS waffle side boxcar nobody else makes..
Then that Louisiana Midland was a first...I don't recollect that road name being produce before.
If they would release a blue Aberdeen & Rockfish boxcar I'm good for two.
Yes, actually the Southern Waffle is on my list to find and acquire still. It's unique and very recognizable and yes, I've seen them in D&RGW freight trains so have to have at least one!
Well I really hope ExactRail does well, but as of yet I don't have even one piece of their product.
At this point they only have one piece that is even in my modeling era - the B&O wagon top box car, and I have a bunch of those from F&C kits and from Fox Valley. I only buy models that fit my layout theme and era.
I can't say I like the direct marketing move, or the direction the industry seems to be headed in, but I do understand it - if that means I have it "all figured out", well maybe I do. I had family in the hobby business when I was growing up, then I worked in this business from teen to young adult, and have maintained contact with a number of people on the "business" side of this hobby.
That combined with spending most of my life self employed does give me a natural interest in the business side of this hobby and useful knowledge of how it works.
Model trains have ALWAYS been manufactured in short run, "limited" batches. The only difference now is the manufacturers tell us that and use it to prompt sales. Back in the day Athearn would have NEVER told the general public what was in stock or sold out at the factory and relied on the distributor and dealer network to actually "keep it in stock" hopefully until the next batch was made so as to provide a sense that the product was always available.
Now everyone want to "sell out" with no regard for that customer who comes along between production runs. Dealers can't aford big standing inventories, distributors are dieing, manufacturers are trying to "sell out" quickly on each run. Not a good business model in my view - as I have discussed on here before.
So if direct marketing means that the excess product sits at a SINGLE distribution point - the manufacturer - waiting for those "in between the run" customers, that might be better - then having to hunt down the dealer who still has what you are looking for. The big question may be pricing - single point distribution tends to level off pricing and direct to consumer marketing tends to raise prices to the highest price the market will bear. We will see.
I have seen some of their product, it is very nice. Again, hope they do well.
Exactly right. Back in the early days, it was people like Rollin Lobaugh and Fred Icken on the high end. Take a look at the prices on Lobaugh locomotives and then hit up an inflation calculator. The prices on those make today's Overland brass seem cheap. It's no coincidence that many of the people back then with 'complete' layouts were professions like doctors and lawyers. The lest well to do had a string of cars and a loco or two built completely or mostly from scratch.
It's all a trade off in time and money. If you have loads of time, you ca scratchbuild with basic tools and do so very inexpensively. If you want to fill a basement up and have enough locos and cars to handle multiple operators, and do so in a couple of years, you're going to either need more expensive specialty tools to speed the scratchbuilding, or buy kits or RTR.
In general, this is not exactly a cheap hobby to be inManufacturers have tried cheap over the years. Some are still out there. Always with devestating results, as often as not driving peopel away as bringing in new blood. Oh sure, a Blue Box loco might have been $15 - but there were entire train sets for that price, with a loco, 4-5 cars, track, and a power pack. No question the BB was a far better product, but people bought those train sets. And promptly shelved them when they failed to run reliably as often was the case.
It's all relative, really.
--Randy
simon1966 There will always be a high end. Fortunately as has been discussed ad-nauseum on this forum there are many manufacturers catering to a more budget conscious modeller. IMO Exactrail did not go direct initially because they discovered that you can significantly increase volume when you sign up a bunch of retailers and sell them inventory for their shelves. Once you have established a market presence and have hoisted yourself up on the back of the retailer then you can drop them and go direct. This happens all the time in many industries. It is very hard indeed to build a market presence on your own with nothing but a web retail site and a monthly advertisement in the hobby press.
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Model trains have ALWAYS been manufactured in short run, "limited" batches. The only difference now is the manufacturers tell us that and use it to prompt sales. Back in the day Athearn would have NEVER told the general public what was in stock or sold out at the factory and relied on the distributor and dealer network to actually "keep it in stock" hopefully until the next batch was made so as to provide a sense that the product was always available. Now everyone want to "sell out" with no regard for that customer who comes along between production runs. Dealers can't aford big standing inventories, distributors are dieing, manufacturers are trying to "sell out" quickly on each run. Not a good business model in my view - as I have discussed on here before. Sheldon
Sheldon that is a very interesting observation. These days once you hear the words "limited run" you tend to buy stuff you think you might need some day almost out of a sense of panic -- you snooze, you lose.
From the perspective of what this or that local hobby shop carried, it almost didn't matter back then that Athearn and other manufacturers created their stuff in production runs -- because they shut up about what was out of stock. That mean there was no panic to buy anything, with the result that old and new stuff could co-exist on the shelves. Sometimes you'd see the old yellow boxes in the same stacks as the blue boxes. Even brass was sold that way. Of course back then even the explicitly limited run "1 of 5000" Ambroid kits could be found on the shelves because, after all, 5000 was still alot of kits!
The only manufacturer I can think of that follows that philosophy now is Micro Engineering. When the stuff runs out it runs out, but they'll get around to another batch ... eventually. So if Walthers is all out of a M-E item maybe your LHS has plenty. No panic.
Dave Nelson
Dave,
Back when I ran the train department of a hobby shop many items were considered staples - like milk and bread. You bought as much as you could aford to stock with no "fear" of not selling it. Atlas track, blue box kits (and yes I remember the yellow boxes), CalScale, Kadee, MDC kits, Campbell buildings, etc, - you just tiried to stock these lines as completley as you could - like the grocery store stocks food.
You did not try too much to "guess" what people would want, you stocked stuff and replaced what sold. If it sold fast you bought 3 or 6 the next time rather than one. Maybe you sold at some sort of small discount, but you virtually never had a "clearence" sale.
Athearn was bought direct by some big dealers, but most of us just bought it from three to four regional distributors. They had to buy case lots and had big inventories, we always had hundreds of pieces of Athearn in stock in our store, and we were not a big store by any means.
Inventory was seen as money in the bank, not as a liablity. The more impressed your customers were with your selection, the more they bought, the more they came to you rather than the other guy - even if they did have to special order that one thing they wanted now and then. Sure, when aproduct seemed "dead" in the market you likely did not reorder it, but that was rare.
BUT, all that cannot be done at the small margins many of today's dealers are working on because of the demand for discounting. Retail rents are high, Employees who know their stuff expect reasonable pay, retail hours are hard work - for 0nly 20%-30% gross margins - I don't think so.
New product was slow to come to market, but did always sell well and help drive interest in the hobby, nothing new there.
We could see in the 80's the new product growth starting to change the market. We new then you would have to "be big" or stay home. So what is going on now, is old news to me - I lived its beginings and evolution.
As I read this I am building an Accurail kit and have 2 others sitting on my desk that will be next. The exactarail cars are nice but not generally in the price range of what I am willing to spend on freight cars. I am planning to build a large layout that will have more than 600 freight cars. Train length will be 30 to 40 cars. From what I saw of their prices in the 40.00 range that puts each train at about 1500 to 1900 dollars counting motive power and caboose. Accurail cuts that by a bit over half.
The exactarail cars look nice and if I was building a small switching layout that would have less than 100 cars they would definitely be an option. I also like building the kits. I guess each persons situation will determine his or her choices.
My Santa Fe in Oklahoma has a heavy investment already in ExactRail, particularily in the grain cars and auto parts cars. In fact, the grain car inventory includes 156 Exactrail ATSF cars, not to mention all the other grain cars I have liberated from them. Maybe I overinflated their business plan, but that is ending. My layout is large, and I usually have around 800-900 total cars on the layout at a given time. The rest are on shelves and I "shuffle" them back and forth between op sessions.
This is interesting, I usually stay away from participating in topics like this, however, I want to make a couple points.I like modelling, & try to do some 'nice to me' custom builds, I enjoy kits, scratch building & kitbasing!I try very hard to model a quality unit & when I buy one, I hope to know what I am getting & Exact Rail delivers to that extent in their model line up & grades.I have built a couple of the Exact Rail 72' bridges for a project, & enjoyed them, but at the time, they were hard to find, & held me up for a bit. (before many dealers were on-line with Exact Rail).
I have a couple Exact Rail Gons, Boxcars & their Magor hoppers. I really was impressed with each product.
At first I was really awestuck when I read this, as I had the availability issues before. Then after some thought, & if, IF!, they do it right, it could, & just may work for them.Hopefully they will put in place a great internet sales site that takes Paypal, & other internet compatible payment forms, & may consider an 'auction' site avenue, in their sales portfolio.They also need to be extremely Price competitive & market fair, we all know what we are paying now... & that is the stated reason for the change in the business model.
I really hope this does work for them, & is a positive thing for their future!I enjoy the limited number of their units I have, & would not want to see them go away, due to this transition.
Just my thoughts.
J.Rob As I read this I am building an Accurail kit and have 2 others sitting on my desk that will be next. The exactarail cars are nice but not generally in the price range of what I am willing to spend on freight cars. I am planning to build a large layout that will have more than 600 freight cars. Train length will be 30 to 40 cars. From what I saw of their prices in the 40.00 range that puts each train at about 1500 to 1900 dollars counting motive power and caboose. Accurail cuts that by a bit over half.
It sounds to me that you care more about populating a large layout with approximate and generic freight cars in long trains where you don't care or don't notice the individual cars, nor whether they match real freight cars that you watched as a railfan.
In contrast, there are those who have done enough observation of real trains and or railfanning through photographs, magazines and DVD's that they know what many of the typical freight cars of the region and era should look like. The good news for folks who want fairly accurate freight cars is there has been a major trend during the past 10 to 15 years for companies like Athearn, Walthers, and especially Intermountain, Genesis, ExactRail etc. to offer many cars that are close matches.
I'm not saying there isn't a place for Accurail, MDC, Athearn blue box, and other lower cost HO trains and if you look carefully, you'll find some of those happen to be fairly close to some prototypes, even if more crude than the costlier models, AND, they do provide a way for people to enjoy the hobby. That said, I would be naive to suggest that ExactRail offers only 100% freight cars which are accurate matches to real freight cars in every case. One example I recall discussed, that allegedly doesn't match any prototype, was ExactRails depressed center flat car. Of the cars I have been interested in, mainly 1970's cars, they appear to be fairly good models of specific prototypes such as the 60' auto box cars, 50' 5200 double door box cars, 62' PC&R beer box cars, and of course the Vert-a-pac's that carried Chevy Vega's from California across the Rockies to points east!
Nothing wrong with kits of course, and they do provide ways to build a sizable fleet at lower cost. And some kits are reasonably accurate. I have some Accurail cars myself, but have been picky about which ones I've bought - mainly the CF4600 3-bay hoppers - which are accurate for a number of prototypes, even if not finely detailed. The box cars seem to be harder to match to the prototype, and are more generic.
But, if people are looking for ways to save money, my way to save is to try to avoid the "fantasy" models, of which there are many out there, especially from many of the traditional kit makers. I used to buy anything that I liked but since not having a place to build a layout right now, much of my hobby is research and finding out what models match cars of my location and period. ExactRail makes alot of cars which fit that goal, as does Genesis, and Atlas etc. Walthers is very hit and miss, but if you look, you can find many nice Walthers cars which are matches too.
But, if people are looking for ways to save money, my way to save is to try to avoid the "fantasy" models, of which there are many out there, especially from many of the traditional kit makers.
-----------------------------------
Some times a "fantasy" car may be better then nothing especially for some road names.Of course these "fantasy" cars helps pay the bills so more models can be produce.
Of late I been favoring Atlas Trainman cars over the like brand cars but, I won't pass up a Athearn or Walthers RTR car either if I need a particular car or road name.
The way I see it one needs to buy the cars that fits his modeling style and budget.
riogrande5761,
Your reply to J.Rob begs a few questions and comments:
What if no accurate model exists of the freight cars you need for a desired operational scheme? You yourself comment earlier about the impracticality of building everything from craftsman, or even shake the box kits for a large layout?
"It sounds to me that you care more about populating a large layout with approximate and generic freight cars in long trains where you don't care or don't notice the individual cars, nor whether they match real freight cars that you watched as a railfan."
Some of us are more intersted in the "big picture" or capturing the feel of big time railroading, or in acting out an operational scheme - OR simply finding a reasonable afordable balance in all aspects of the hobby. I have no interest in only pulling 12 cars with my ABBA F3 diesel sets.
"watched as a railfan" - I model a time period from before I was born? Personally I find modern railroading pretty boring.
ExactRail makes great stuff, and as stated earlier I wish them all the best, but since they are not providing hardly anything in the era I model, it does not matter if I am willing to spend $35 on a single freight car or not.
After 40 years of study and modeling, I'm reasonably well schooled on the era and railroads that interest me, but I gave up rivet counting years ago in favor of a more balanced approach to the whole of the hobby. My layout is even designed to provide good continious loop display operation along with "real" operation. And I still find more fun in freelancing mixed with prototype modeling than obsessing over the number ribs on the end of a box car.
ATLANTIC CENTRAL riogrande5761, Your reply to J.Rob begs a few questions and comments: What if no accurate model exists of the freight cars you need for a desired operational scheme? You yourself comment earlier about the impracticality of building everything from craftsman, or even shake the box kits for a large layout?
The answer is simple, you go without if it isn't practical to scratchbuild, which is the case for many of us. Or if you can deal with it, use some sort of "stand-in" freight cars and let your imagination make up for it. In the past, the situation of "no accurate models" was much more common, but in the past 15 to 20 years, a great deal of nice models has come out so it is easier to find what you need, although not 100% possible.
And I acknowledge that in my earlier post. That is a decision based on the modeler preference. Back in the 1980's, I was interested most in building the Rio Grande Zephyr as best I could with what was available, mainly Athearn F units and Concor dome cars. For the freight trains that it passed on the D&RGW mainline, I was more interested in modeling them in a fairly generic sense. But over the years as I've researched and read about the D&RGW, my interested has refined into specifics and I've moved way from wanting generic freight trains to run past the Rio Grande Zephyr to having trains that ran freight cars which I can identify and make them more realistic too.
It is what it is. If a company doesn't make what you need, you don't buy from them. What else can you say.
After 40 years of study and modeling, I'm reasonably well schooled on the era and railroads that interest me, but I gave up rivet counting years ago in favor of a more balanced approach to the whole of the hobby. My layout is even designed to provide good continious loop display operation along with "real" operation. And I still find more fun in freelancing mixed with prototype modeling than obsessing over the number ribs on the end of a box car. Sheldon
Sheldon, I don't rivit count either, otherwise I would have a different outlook on modeling than I do. Sounds like your older than me but at 53 I have a good idea of the prototype vs the modeling world and lets both agree that model railroading is a continuum that involves varying degree's of compromise. Although I know what rivit counting is, I don't engage in it and don't care to. What I do care to do is identify models that "look" like common freight cars, such as many of the SP PC&F or lumber cars. I look at the photo and then the model and say, "yep, thats it", and don't look too much deeper. I'm not really sure what that has to do with obsessing over ribs on a box car honestly. But some folks do what their model to look pretty much like the real thing so thats where people have to say what is good enough.
Hopefully you get my drift, and don't think I'm not about balance, but recognize some folks are more toward the generic look and some focus in a bit more. Neither is right or wrong, but when people come into a topic about a company and say, nah, I don't care about replica's, generic is good enough - I ask myself what that has to do with ExactRails decision to go to direct sales. It sounds more like a person comforting themself that this won't affect them. Whatever... if we have to wax philosophical, then lets just say we all model on our own terms and be happy.
Actually, I'm nearly the same age as you, I will be 55 in a month. But I grew up with this hobby, my father built a very nice layout for me at age 8, by age 10 it was mine to learn on, change, by age 12 I was building Silver Streak wood kits, buy age 14 I was the repair person/sales clerk at the local hobby shop. At age 20 I was running the train department in another hobby shop. During that time I was learning from the old masters at the somewhat well known and published Severna Park Model Railroad Club.
No disagreement here with anything you said, but thanks for clarifing some of it.
Maybe J.Rob is just justifing his choices, but the future of ExactRail is linked to the price vs detail question - otherwise they might have simply decided to raise prices - they didn't, they chose cost control - that says something.
I have a lot of rolling stock (800 freight cars +/-), of every price, age, material, level of detail and accuracy, etc. But I am in no way motovated to replace all my blue box (and yellow box before that) Athearn 40' steel box cars with $35 or $40 RTR cars. In fact I still buy Athearn all the time - NOS blue box or new Ready to Roll.
I have some high end freight cars, Fox Valley, Intermountain, Kadee, but to model the era I model, a lot of stuff has not been done in "high end" cars. Sure some important holes in my era have been filled over the last decade or two, but the fact is a lot of the correct cars for my era are only available in medium detail Accurail, Athearn, Bowser, MDC grade shake thebox kits, or as craftsman kits - of which I build my share.
I'm filling an 800 sq ft room with two levels, modeling for overall effect.
And I hope ExactRail stays in business long enough to offer me something other than B&O wagon tops. Because if they do, I will likely buy their stuff, direct from them would be no problem to me, especially if it keeps prices down.
I guess many of us are alike in that way. I grew up with trains since I was a toddler while Kennedy was still President, and my dad built a Lionel layout for me which I got for Christmas at age 4, but after that it was pretty much up to me to try to do some modeling on my own since he was in the Air Force and gone on TDY much of the time. I too have worked in a few hobby shops over the years and rubbed shoulders with folks in the hobby and ate up MR magazines since my early teens. I don't have any "credentials" but have been an avid reader and researcher in the hobby most of my adult life.
For me the hobby has been an evolution from just liking trains in general as a kid to watching the prototype SP growing up in California and later traveling around the US - I think I counted 45 of the 50 states so I've covered some ground, but I still harken back to the western spaces of my teens and twenties for what motivates me the most. Because of that evolution, I have found that as I learned more about the prototypes, I began to notice models which I had bought because they were painted for SP or D&RGW or whatever and found they didn't match anything either RR owned. I had been vaguely aware of this in my younger years, but became accutely aware of it when I bought some Morning Sun Books such as the Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment and others. Since there have been times when I had no place to build a layout, I focused on researching and refining my collecting, which meant selling off quite a bit, and slowly replacing cars with those which better matched. I don't think I have as many freight cars as you (I haven't counted them) but what I've managed to collect will help me build trains that look like those in my books, and that is cool.
What I personally enjoy building trains that look like the real thing, in some cases nearly car for car from what I can identify in some shots - of course not entire trains but what I can see. I have examples of most everything you mentioned except Fox Valley - but I have plans to get one of those SOO's eventually!!! It sounds like you are back in the 40's and 50's era so I realize the manufacturers have been covering mostly 60's-present lately, probably what they feel will sell. ExactRail tends toward the that niche. Since I grew up mostly watching real trains in the 70's and 80's as a teen and twenty something, that is what jazzes me the most - which I suppose is most common. I realize there are a few folks, like yourself, that may model time periods before you were born. I do admit, my exposure to real steam on several occasions make me wish I was alive back then to see those beasts in action, but the personal connection with the 70's and 80's is to strong for me to over come, and rely on video's and books to connect. Even as it is, I have relied on those media together with my own memories as inspiration.
I do hope ExactRail can remain accessable to the fans and hobbiests because the do produce excellent products, among the best IMO, and they have been filling many area's in the HO and N scale that were missing or needed a quality model.
Cheers.
Bowser still makes kits too.
And what about all the smaller companys that make laser cut and resin kits too?
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
rdgk1se3019 And what about all the smaller companys that make laser cut and resin kits too?
Since I model 1900, there are precious few "quality" shake-the-box or RTR cars available that are even reasonable generic matches. The Roundhouse Old Timers are fair representations for 1910 onwards, but require significant work to backdate.
There are quite a few small manufacturers of accurate, well-detailed wood, laser-cut, and resin kits that are era-suitable. And I buy them. And I'm very glad they are there, as I haven't mustered the courage to get into scratch-building yet. But as several posters have brought up, there is a trade-off of time to build and finish these "craftsmen" kits. Most of us simply don't have the time to build every car from a craftsman kit if we hope to complete a mid-size to large layout in our lifetimes.
There are 3 resource constraints to layout building - money, time, and space. Some are much more constrained by time than space or money - for them RTR or easily built kits can allow them to build larger rosters to use in operations or other pleasurable activities. And reality is that these folks form the majority of the model railroading market. There wouldn't be much variety or model availability if manufacturers had to count on the purchases of the likes of me to make a living. Yet I benefit greatly from those who have larger budgets and rosters because of the variety and number of models available.
In my case, all 3 resources are pretty tightly constrained. So a small layout, populated with relatively few cars that are time-consuming to build works out rather well for me - but not necessarily for anybody else.
I am very glad that model railroading is a spectrum of choices, and I encourage all to enjoy the hobby their way.
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
Is it just me? There seems to be a rip-tide of trying to analyze our hobby as if we were all MBAs and the most important thing any company can do is to keep the bean counters and model railroaders both happy at the same time -- an impossible task.
ER will either succeed or not in this. I have strong doubts about it myself, but ultimately what really matters is whether they build something I want or not. And I don't care if they slap some unreal roadname on the side or not. I can figure that out and if someone buys one that way because I won't, so much the better as it subsidizes my personal level of pickiness about accuracy.
I think there's something a bit pathological at work in American life when so many of us seem inclined to analyze our hobby as if it were a business plan, rather than fun and recreation. I'm actually kind of disgusted in myself for even contributing my "who cares?" sentiment here after reading the massive waste of energy on another forum and having put my two cents in there, too. Ugh...
Imagine if all the energy that went into these discussions was devoted to modeling?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Mike, Confess I am victim to getting caught up in the analyzing thing, although my masters is not in business, but rather geological sciences, so perhaps I should leave the analysis to those more qualified! And I find myself reaction to comments made in topics which seem either "off topic" or trying to make up excuses why not to buy ER, which makes them off topic. If they only buy kits, or ER doesn't make era correct cars, then why bother commenting unless they are just lining up to watch the show - get your popcorn and lemonade and chase lounges eh? =P
Most of the major forums seem to be having a lot of hand wringing and debate over the economy, the cost of the hobby and now ER's descision to migrate to direct sales. I guess since I live in a place with no nearby hobby shops, my trains come from either mail order or train shows so this thing with ER shouldn't be a huge change for me, it's more mental or psychological. We Americans are conditioned to thinking of products in terms of MSRP vs the best price you can find. ER does remove that part of the bargain hunting from the equation, so that turns many of us out of our comfort zone.
Anyhow Mike, people like me jibber jabber on forums because I don't have a basement or workshop and probably won't for a few more years. I collect, I research and fantasize while I live in a tiny shoebox. I can see you have a nice place for a beautiful layout, so count your blessings - you are fortunate.
mlehman Is it just me? There seems to be a rip-tide of trying to analyze our hobby as if we were all MBAs and the most important thing any company can do is to keep the bean counters and model railroaders both happy at the same time -- an impossible task. ER will either succeed or not in this. I have strong doubts about it myself, but ultimately what really matters is whether they build something I want or not. And I don't care if they slap some unreal roadname on the side or not. I can figure that out and if someone buys one that way because I won't, so much the better as it subsidizes my personal level of pickiness about accuracy. I think there's something a bit pathological at work in American life when so many of us seem inclined to analyze our hobby as if it were a business plan, rather than fun and recreation. I'm actually kind of disgusted in myself for even contributing my "who cares?" sentiment here after reading the massive waste of energy on another forum and having put my two cents in there, too. Ugh... Imagine if all the energy that went into these discussions was devoted to modeling?
Imagine if we were all willing to pay retail at well stocked hobby shops with helpfull friendly counter staff - we would not be having this conversation.
I'll put my 30 plus years of business experiance, some of it in this business, up against the average MBA anytime.
Nobody compells you to read or replay to stuff that is of no interest to you, I skip over 85% of this forum, and its the only train forum I read.
Imagine if the internet closed down and all the time speni on it went to more productive activities.
Personally, I'm only on here this much this past week due to a personal comitment that has made the computer available and other more desirable activities not available - I'll be much more quiet next week.
Mike, to be honest I enjoy this stuff, after all we are talking about business' that are serving our hobby. I would like to think that the individuals that run these business' are actually running them as more than a hobby themselves. (not always the case in this hobby). Furthermore, having been in sales, marketing and distribution my whole working life, and now run my own business which uses distribution channels, I find this stuff fascinating. These guys are making decisions that I have either faced myself, or will have to face at some time in the future. There are significant consequences to making these decisions and it will be interesting to see how it pans out.