I mentioned a photo of a similar MoPac car, the only comparable prototype that has been mentioned in this thread at all. In that photo, it was obviously in use as a caboose, and the sliding door was probably for L.C.L. in its original form. Later use in M-O-W service makes sense. The plastic model versions were sold as part of a M-O-W set, but that might have more to do with marketing than prototype practice.
Tom
This type of car, whether wood or steel side was used in MOW service.
Also, reading through this old thread, I feel obligated to make a small correction. The original car pictured is not, in fact, a Tru-Scale, Train-Miniature, or Walthers car--or even the original Silver Streak kit. It appears to be a combination of two Silver Streak kits, the original bay-window-boxcar kit and a caboose. The end platform railings have the wiggly s-curve pattern on the side facing the end steps, a feature found only on Silver Streak caboose kits. The platforms match as well. Likely, the work car kit was built with a longer wooden stick through the center of the bottom to allow for the installation of caboose platforms.
Resurrecting an old thread for sure! But an interestring one. I wasn't aware of it until now.
Nobody ever answered the original question, which was whether there was a prototype for this kit. Lucius Beebe & Charles Clegg's "Mixed Train Daily" (originally published 1947) has a photo on page 333 which sort of answers the question. The photo shows Missouri Pacific car 1014, which looks about the same except for two windows behind the bay window, and open platforms on both ends. Beebe says it was borrowed by the shortline Doniphan, Kensett, & Searcy in Arkansas. I suppose it is possible that MoPac may have had cars that were an exact, or closer, match.
It is fairly certain that the first bay window cabooses were built in the shops of the Akron Canton & Youngstown Railroad between September, 1921 and August, 1923. Eleven cars were rebuilt from old wood boxcars, seven with bays and four with cupolas, under the direction of AC&Y Superintendent of Motive Power H. F. Grewe, following an idea first presented by AC&Y General Superintendent J. M. Hood. The original cars had vertical wood siding, and small off-center bay windows that provided for viewing forward and back, but NOT to the side. Side windows were later added to the bays. The side bays extended about 8" beyond the side wall, increasing the car's total width by about 16". The floor of the bay was higher than the floor of the car because this provided extra clearance for workers on the ground between tracks. I have never understood why so many later bay window designs had full-height bays, in light of this safety issue. The AC&Y rebuilds were featured in the August 11, 1923 issue of Railway Age, and it was claimed that they were an unprecedented design. I have never seen this claim successfully refuted.
These cars are described in the current Morning Sun book on the AC&Y, and in a more in-depth article in the AC&Y Historical Society News, Vol.VI, No. 3, Fall, 1999. Full disclosure: I wrote the article.
BTW: Mixed Train Daily should be in the collection of everybody with an affection for vintage shortlines.
(edited)
Here's a caboose made from a boxcar, with a small bay window and round portholes(!)...
Here's a WP caboose w/bay window, made from a boxcar:
Of course, both of those have the bay windows centered, not off-set.
By the way there is a prototype for an offset bay window caboose, although a more modern one.
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/ble/ble1955dsa.jpg
Rick J
Rule 1: This is my railroad.
Rule 2: I make the rules.
Rule 3: Illuminating discussion of prototype history, equipment and operating practices is always welcome, but in the event of visitor-perceived anacronisms, detail descrepancies or operating errors, consult RULE 1!
Yes I have two of them. Found luckily at a hobby shop where a guy was putting up some things for consignment still in kit form in the box. I have the NYC version in NYC green and run it with my Bachmann 2-6-0 in transfer service. I just got the tool car and supply caboose given to me by a guy at our train club who was getting rid of old stuff. Both are in MofW orange. I plan to repaint both of them into Seaboard Air Line MofW colors. When running my NYC caboose I always get asked about it. I wish somebody still made these.
mcfunkeymonkey You've almost convinced me to tender-drive my 2-6-0 when I finally get around to building it.Tender-drive looks so ugly, though (guess I could put some drapes and a fireman to help mask it) But a moving mogul is better than a motionless mass of metal. Thanks for showing!
You've almost convinced me to tender-drive my 2-6-0 when I finally get around to building it.Tender-drive looks so ugly, though (guess I could put some drapes and a fireman to help mask it)
But a moving mogul is better than a motionless mass of metal.
Thanks for showing!
Yep, a visible drive shaft is really small price to pay for an excellent performing loco.
I should add that the Gizmozone gearhead comes attached to a 3v motor identical in size to the (supposidly 12v) motor that comes with Kato Power Chassis. In the video I'm using the 3v motor as I don't have proper tools to trim and notch the motor shaft on the Kato motor, otherwise that would be the way to go. Additionally, the universal used for the drive shaft is also modified from the Kato power chassis.. AND the worm gear.
Yes, the Kato power chassis is one glorious thing of beauty with nearly an infinite number of uses (hint KatoUSA.. import these again!).
-Mark
www.MarkWatson3D.com
Great work, Mark!
I don't remember you having that much room for all those cars on your modules: were you placing cars on the track as the mogul moved?
M.C. Fujiwara
My YouTube Channel (How-to's, Layout progress videos)
Silicon Valley Free-moN
Great work! MDC Roundhouse used to offer freight cars of similar vintage as what you've scratch built. However, obviously, you don't need kits, anyway. Very nicely modeled!
The re-gear question has me stumped, also! You would think the manufacturers would understand this!
I had a Rivarossi Casey Jones 4-6-0 that was either stopped or running at interstellar speed! Northwest Short lines provided a re-gear kit that made it a great runner. Changing wasn't a simple process; but, doable. It's just that it shouldn't have been needed to start with!
The caboose looks great!
NP 2626 "Northern Pacific, really terrific"
Northern Pacific Railway Historical Association: http://www.nprha.org/
Thanks Darren. :)
Here's the almost finished Supply Caboose taking up the rear of this entirely scratch-built freight train.
The Atlas 2-6-0 Mogul is undergoing a motor upgrade with gearhead reduction. (WHY IS THIS NOT STANDARD?!?!) Without the gearhead, the loco has two speeds; stopped and turbo. With the gearhead, it has 3 speeds; stopped, almost stopped, and PERFECT!
watch?v=nNI3 s26eVg
Nice Work Mark!
Darren (BLHS & CRRM Lifetime Member)
Delaware and Hudson Virtual Museum (DHVM), Railroad Adventures (RRAdventures)
My Blog
The N.P. converted a few old box cars into Bay windowed cabooses. I think it may have been fairly common to do this.
Incredible work Mark. A true craftsman.
Remember its your railroad
Allan
Track to the BRVRR Website: http://www.brvrr.com/
Gidday, I presume the interior detail will include the train crews bacon and eggs cooking on the stove!
Seriously, well done to the Watson Railroad Workshops.
Cheers,The Bear.
"One difference between pessimists and optimists is that while pessimists are more often right, optimists have far more fun."
Thanks for the photos Phil. I don't think I've ever seen a roof walk with center approach boards! (Not sure what the correct term is, but "approach" works right?)
Tonight I completed the veranda. It took two attempts to get the steps correct. I had to dig out the really thin styrene sheet. Now just a few grab irons away from being ready for paint. Oh, and it needs a smoke stack too! AND an interior!!
I'm digging your scratch-building project. Keep posting your progress.
I built one of the Silver Streak kits a while back. The bay windows make it too wide to fit through the tunnels on my layout, so (as you can see) it mostly gathers dust. I do recall that the kit included something about a prototype, but I don't remember any specifics except that it was described as a backshop project.
Regarding the Silver Streak kit, you can see that there were no end platforms and that the boxcar door had been replaced with a smaller door.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
A fellow in our club in the Azores way back when Custer was a cadet had one of these turkeys; he used it in work train service. I never knew where it came from but, thanks to rail Mark Watson, now I do.
There was a guy in my club in Taxachusetts circa 1965 who had grafted a bay window section immediately forward of the rear platform as well as a sliding door section into the middle of a LaBelle wooden passenger car. He also confined this beast to work train service. It was an interesting car; this was rather early in my model railroading venture and there were certain things that had yet to spring to light and it did not dawn on me until much later that this may have been a freelance job as opposed to a having a prototype.
Anybody ever see anything like this before.
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
It's partially obscured, but it's in the back row of this family photo.
I remember saving for and finally buying this whole set when I was a teenager. They came in gray, as most of them I've seen, but also in a bright "safety orange" that looked downright unnatural.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Looking good! I might try kitbashing my own version of one.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Great to see someone who likes to build models!! I was under the impression building models was frowned on, today (You know, man, why would I build it when I can buy one for $40.00, ready to plop on the track and go!!)
Well I had a set back with the bay window. Once I brought everything together I realized the bays stuck out about 4 feet on each side! It looked like Dumbo, if ever a railcar could. Thankfully the fix wasn't difficult at all. Here are all the sides separate with the door details complete (perhaps you can see how much the bays extrude here). And here's the body assembled with fixed doors. After I fixed the bays, then the doors stuck out too much! (Notice how thick they are?). So, rubbed the doors on sand paper to thin them up then glued thin strip styrene in an L and made OPERATING DOORS! Here's the last two of the night on the layout (Posing next my beloved Nebraska Belt Line boxcar! ). With luck, this might be complete by tomorrow night.
Bear, Thanks! Glad I was not dreaming that up, thanks for the info!
Yeah, Mark you are doing an excellent job! -rather very immediately like! -as Ja Bear pointed out.
It looks Great! I can't wait to see more of it!
ChadLRyan Mark, Interesting topic, thanks to everyone for their input, nice pictures & info! Isn't the Walthers one set to be re-released? I thought I saw something on that a while back, & it caught my eye, but I can't remember if it had the end platforms?
Mark,
Interesting topic, thanks to everyone for their input, nice pictures & info!
Isn't the Walthers one set to be re-released? I thought I saw something on that a while back, & it caught my eye, but I can't remember if it had the end platforms?
Gidday, I gather that Walthers purchased Train Miniatures in 1985 and that Walthers rehashed the Train Miniatures Work train set, shown by Mark in one of his earlier posts, because the same "supply caboose" is part of Walthers Work Train #2 set of six cars I bought some years ago.
Mark, I was slightly tongue in cheek when I said I could visualize a scratchbuilt version behind your 4-4-0, having viewed your scratchbulit box cars i wasn't doubting your abilities, just blown away with the speed and efficiency of your work shop!!
Cheers, The Bear.
Yeah, the Walthers cars I'm guessing will still be the wrong scale. ;)
Construction has begun on a Supply Caboose of the proper scale (N scale). :p
Built using styrene strip and Car Siding sheet.
Undercarriage
Basic Walls Cutting the windows by hand really takes it out of you.
The bay actually came together much easier than I feared. :)
Walthers also made that car as one of their "Work Train" sets (they had two different ones, in multiple RR's, including MOW), which came later than the Silver Streak and Tru-Scale set - made in plastic. I just got one of the sets off deBay a few months back (in the MOW grey set). I doubt that (in theory) they were used on a regular freight train - more likely (for the few such critters that may have really existed) that they would be on a work train where the RR was laying a new area of track (or doing major repairs, say after a big train wreck knocked out some track in the process).
My of semi-information...
Jim in Cape G.
Cool!!!
Thanks for the help everyone!
I was able to do some better searching from the info and found that the car is apparently called a "Supply Caboose", and part of early work trains.
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/trainminiature/id169.html
I still haven't been able to find any prototype info on it, but I think I have enough info and reference on the model to begin a scratch-build in N. I kinda like a single veranda version as that's rarely seen for a caboose.
Here's some more photos I was able to dig up:
(notice those looong out dated prices)