mlehman tatans: simon1966: If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof? It seems you have not tried to buy used brass track lately, it's almost impossible to buy and I believe the answer is the pro-non-brass people simply throw the old brass track in the dump. Will it be long that brass track will be sold along with brass locomotives? ? No that'll never happen. You see, the Anti-Brass Conspiracy (ABC) is actually after your brass locomotives, too! Cleverly and sneakily making brass track disappear is just the first step. Next, the ABC will be calling for a ban on all imported brass. Then they'll pick off the few remaining all-American brass craftsmen, surrounding them with ATF hit squads, while claiming to have warrants based on evidence of flux-sniffing provided by clandestine informants, before bashing down the door to their workshops. After they take down the last cottage brass fabricator, then they'll show up on your block to pry the last piece of hot brass from your dying hands... It's that bad folks. I'm taking the next UFO outta town with all my brass Ks. I should passed on the brass and stuck to the Blackstones -- but I couldn't help myself.
tatans: simon1966: If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof? It seems you have not tried to buy used brass track lately, it's almost impossible to buy and I believe the answer is the pro-non-brass people simply throw the old brass track in the dump. Will it be long that brass track will be sold along with brass locomotives? ?
simon1966: If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof?
If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof?
It seems you have not tried to buy used brass track lately, it's almost impossible to buy and I believe the answer is the pro-non-brass people simply throw the old brass track in the dump. Will it be long that brass track will be sold along with brass locomotives? ?
No that'll never happen.
You see, the Anti-Brass Conspiracy (ABC) is actually after your brass locomotives, too! Cleverly and sneakily making brass track disappear is just the first step. Next, the ABC will be calling for a ban on all imported brass. Then they'll pick off the few remaining all-American brass craftsmen, surrounding them with ATF hit squads, while claiming to have warrants based on evidence of flux-sniffing provided by clandestine informants, before bashing down the door to their workshops.
After they take down the last cottage brass fabricator, then they'll show up on your block to pry the last piece of hot brass from your dying hands...
It's that bad folks. I'm taking the next UFO outta town with all my brass Ks. I should passed on the brass and stuck to the Blackstones -- but I couldn't help myself.
Hey ! by golly, I think you are right, I saw some guys out lurking in my yard, could be them, anyway, I like brass track, and they like non-brass track and we are all happy, happy, happy eh? and I'm not telling anyone about all the beautiful brass locomotives available for $250 to $300 that no one seems to want, thanks guys.
I think this forum may soon be ending, 'nuff said !
Who said you can't get brass code 70 rail. I have some. (It's probably older than the poster who said you can't get it...)
My main objection to steel is that it doesn't solder worth beans. OTOH, it IS magnetic...
As I type I have several trains sitting in staging - on brass rail. (Bumper ends of back-in spurs, one length of NS back from the stopping diode gap.) OTOH, most of my cars have NS wheels(!)
Originally, the big selling point for NS was that it looked like steel, and brass didn't. All the whoop-de-do about cleaning didn't start until later.
The biggest reason that small-section rail isn't made in aluminum or copper is that both are too soft and would deform under even minor stress.
If you don't have to put power through the rails they can be anything - wood strips, plastic, cardboard...no, strike cardboard. Insufficient dimensional stability.
I'd like to see somebody make Code 83 rail in stiff rubber, for use on a ribbonrail train...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on whatever works)
don7,
If I was you, I'd do exactly the same thing. If the brass Shinohara is working for you, stick with it, makes no sense to do otherwise.
That brings up another variable that might be at play. It's entirely possible the the brass Shinohara used works better for our purposes. I know there are variations in the metallurgy of N-S, but they have more to do with how it works physically than it's ability to conduct current reliably after exposure to various environmental conditions. N-S just works regardless of that, which is why some people won't consider anything else.
For instance, how many successful brass users live near the seashore? I'll bet that would leave you looking for N-S, because I've heard of people with exactly that problem.
So, there is reason to have faith in brass if it works for you. The issue remains an important one for those planning a large layout. This is not something you want to find you have a problem with after you have the first 1,000' of brass down, for instance...
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Alco Fan,
Did you even read my post? I suggested folks read the archives past threads to view the arguments on both sides. I have posted exactly one additional comment out of 35 posts. That is really keeping it going.
As I mentioned earlier my layout is a mixture of n/s, brass and steel.
The brass portion of my layout is mainly Shinohara double slips, crossovers and number 6 switches. At that time this was the best quality available.
I was given the majority of the brass Shinohara pieces by an elderly neighbour who was dismantling his layout and getting ready to move into a retirement home. I used to visit him on occassion and he would show me his layout and also his latest acquistions which were mainly HO brass. I assume that he sold the brass engines and railroad rolling stock.
Just before he left he sent over a box which had all of the Shinohara track and switches.
That is the brass pieces I have used in my layout. I have only used about 1/2 of the switches which were in the box The n/s is mainly the track I bought for my mainlines and the steel track was given to me by a friend so I made sure I used it in building the layout.
If i was to start a new layout I would of course use the remaining pieces of Shinohara switches etc. I certainly would not go out and buy n/s switches when I have all of this new "old stock" As far as any other track I needed I would likely buy n/s as that is all that is available.
However, if I was to come across new "old stock" brass at a good price I would buy that and use the money I saved to buy scenery items and of course rolling stock.
.
Nickel silver Rules,and that is not a Ghost Story.
Russell
tatans simon1966: If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof? It seems you have not tried to buy used brass track lately, it's almost impossible to buy and I believe the answer is the pro-non-brass people simply throw the old brass track in the dump. Will it be long that brass track will be sold along with brass locomotives? ?
eaglescoutI continue to chuckle as the controversy still rages.
It only "rages" because _you_ started the thread and are working to keep it going. You brass track guys sure seem defensive about it.
I had both on a layout and the nickel silver worked better for me with less cleaning required. You want to use brass, great.
Everybody wants to be a persecuted minority these days ... sheesh.
MisterBeasley Thanks for reminding me I need to break out the CMX car and clean my track this weekend....
Thanks for reminding me I need to break out the CMX car and clean my track this weekend....
Track cleaning? What's that? I STILL haven't cleaned my track, and I can crawl around with no headlight flicker or sound dropout. I think running the heavy brass RS-3 cleaned off the last specs of paint in the yard area that I missed, since the MTH FA's ran great.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I can't say I have looked to purchase any, but there always seems to be boxes of sectional brass track on the floor under the tables at the train-shows I attend. I'll probably pay more attention to it now to see if it is in fact brass.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
simon1966 If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof?
I'm waiting for someone to come up with copper rail....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Texas Zepher BATMAN: Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes. Hey, I think I've been there. Is that Tomichi Pass up toward the Alpine Tunnel of the D&SP?
BATMAN: Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
Hey, I think I've been there. Is that Tomichi Pass up toward the Alpine Tunnel of the D&SP?
Nope. It is on the Kettle Valley line somewhere between Rock Creek and Penticton B.C.
By the way I don't take my Wench with me either, she hates driving along the top of 1000' high cliff's. After this trip, upon returning home, my little guy told her that when he looked out the window he couldn't even see any road next to the truck, just a long drop into the river below. He can't wait for our next trip boldly going where even the railroad gave up.
Brent
PS; Keeping on topic I didn't find any brass track along the old roadbed.
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
If you are happy with brass, then by all means, use it. Your choice. Mine just happens to be NS after years of using about everything there is.
Bob
I think don7 is closest among the brass track enthusiasts to the truth -- it really depends on your environment. Moist or pollution-laden climates will have more problems with brass track. However, some people will use it and never notice the difference. The reason? The environment differs.
You roll the dice using brass track if you're not certain that it holds up well in the environment at your location. If you go with N-S, you can be certain this won't be an issue. If you use brass and have no problems, then the outcome is merely lucky, not controversial.
So I guess I still am missing what the controversy is. Brass corrodes and this doesn't conduct. N-S oxidizes, but it's a conducting oxidant that forms. If you like cleaning track regularly, brass is what you pick. Again, if that's part of model railroading for you, no problem.
I have a few pieces of Atlas brass track that sits in a box from 4 decades ago. I look at it from time to time and it just keeps getting darker. Sort of like a shrunken head, it's curious, but not something I'd bother laying to run trains on. Maybe the off-gassing acid in the Athearn cardboard box it's in is contributing to this? That just reinforces the point I made earlier.
blownout cylinderBrass is teh Evilz... it is a very poor conductor...
it is a very poor conductor...
Like I said before...I've used both brass and n/s for awhile now..and no real issues to deal with...
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BATMAN Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
My train room is actually the family room and is located on the main floor of my house.
My layout has two yard areas that are predominately brass and the mainlines of the layout are mainly nickle silver with some steel trackage. The reason for the brass is that years ago I was given a large number of crossovers, double slip and number 6 switches all which were brass.
I clean my tracks with a quick spray of an ignition spray and wipe the exposed tracks with a cotton rag. I then run a set of Bachmann track cleaners for a few rounds around the layout and and a bit of the yard areas that are not occupied with cars. This takes me about 10 minutes top for time. I also use Wahl clipper oil about every six months
I run my layout about once a week, both sound and non sound engines and can certainly verify that the sound engines are more likely to react to dirty track than non sound engines. All freight and passenger cars have metal wheels.
I clean my track about every other month even though none of the engines run indicate any hesitation nor do the engines with sound have any adverse sound distortions that I have noticed.
I can not seen any difference with the oxidation of the track between the nickle silver, the brass or the steel.
If the track was placed outside of course I would see oxidation but that is not where the layout is.
watch?v=ihCHzS4jTM&feature=related
Of course locomotives like the T-1's had issues like that too....
Yep.
Brass is teh Evilz...
it is a very poor conductor..makes one wonder how people ever managed to get anything working on it.
it could not be cleaned to save your neck...wonder how anyone managed to clean it and run stuff on it with no problems..maybe they were all lying....
You could not have it on any grade because...well..the wheels would slip and all that..of course, no one bothers to check out how prototypical that is...
watch?v=xhG1bm7D Q&feature=relmfu
pastorbobI will throw another bone in the pile, I also do garden railroading in the backyard and I use aluminum track (Llagas Creek)
The biggest enemy to brass track was the brass wheels that was used on locomotives these wheels gathered dirt faster then a hound does fleas which resulted in spotty operation and IMHO there lays the confusion about brass track.
Also one was wise to paint brass track in order to kill the brass look..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I continue to chuckle as the controversy still rages. I was surprised to see an entry for steel track in the fray. Can't argue with it being the most prototypical and you wouldn't have to mess with weathering it, just leave it outside on a couple of humid days. Maybe Obama will give me a subsidy for recycling brass track rather than using up more natural resources and energy to produce nickel track.
gandydancer19 If you want the best track, perform the following test: 1- Obtain a 3 foot section of each type. 2- Clean both with the same bright-boy cleaning block. 3- Run the same loco back and forth on each three times. 4- Store both in the same place in the same orientation with the rails up for six months. 5- After that time, perform step number 3 and then decide which track is best. No cheating. No track dusting or cleaning with ANYTHING. Just hook up the power and run the loco. You should clean the loco wheels before you start, and between each track test.
If you want the best track, perform the following test:
1- Obtain a 3 foot section of each type.
2- Clean both with the same bright-boy cleaning block.
3- Run the same loco back and forth on each three times.
4- Store both in the same place in the same orientation with the rails up for six months.
5- After that time, perform step number 3 and then decide which track is best.
No cheating. No track dusting or cleaning with ANYTHING. Just hook up the power and run the loco. You should clean the loco wheels before you start, and between each track test.
That's no good way to test track, by firstly ruining it with a bright boy.... I would call the test satisfying if the rail was wiped with alcohol before the test cycle.
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IRONROOSTER And you ignore the imports being better than both. Paul
And you ignore the imports being better than both.
Paul
Imports? Most of the Toyota's, Honda's, BMW's, etc, etc, sold here are made here?
And all those companies make good cars, It's just shame they don't make cars that suit my needs.
I prefer cars that yout "get into" rather than "put on" and I require pickup trucks with 8' beds. So for me it really does not matter how good some of those brands are.
As for brass track, it does not suit my needs either.
Sheldon
I have some brass track on my layout and it gets no dirtier than my NS track. But, I run my trains everyday so that helps.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Clearly Ford, they didn't need government money and are doing very well. And they build more pickup trucks in a month or two then Toyota builds in a year, and their quality ratings are as high as Honda, and unlike recall king Toyota their recall numbers are very low. And over the last five years they have reduced their own internal warranty expense by more than 50%. But facts like that should never get in the way of emotionally driven opinion. Sheldon
Clearly Ford, they didn't need government money and are doing very well. And they build more pickup trucks in a month or two then Toyota builds in a year, and their quality ratings are as high as Honda, and unlike recall king Toyota their recall numbers are very low. And over the last five years they have reduced their own internal warranty expense by more than 50%.
But facts like that should never get in the way of emotionally driven opinion.
LION buys cheapest tracks. Works fine. Him was given some brass, and did use it but it was the old flex track with the fiber ties. Used it only in straight sections in yards. It is gone now. The yards were replaced with a new four track mane lion. They did not remove as easily or as intact as NS even though it was never painted or ballasted.
It will be used in the PENN STATION exhibit on my layout. That will be a static exhibit showing off my older passenger cars and locomotives.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
I use steel everywhere on my layout except in the staging where I use nickel silver. I wouldn't trade the steel for anything. The color of the nickel silver just doesn't sit right with me, even if the track is weathered and only the top of the rail is bare. If there is any extra maintenance and cleaning needed on the steel rail over the nickel silver it is barely noticeable. What is noticeable - traction on grades. Steel wins, hands down. Not even close.
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Well, have been using nickle silver since it was first offered and find it vastly superior to brass in maintenance and operating satisfaction. That said, my "train room" is my basement, with sheetrock walls, tile ceiling, carpeted or tile floors and no other distractions so the railroad runs just fine with little maintenance other than running a track cleaningCMX train around if I haven't operated in a couple of months (happens very rarely). Have been in HO since 1959 when I graduated from college and moved into my first basement (home). Have used brass, steel (blah, eck) and then nickle silver and nickle silver wins hands down for me.
I will throw another bone in the pile, I also do garden railroading in the backyard and I use aluminum track (Llagas Creek) and the switches are nickle silver. Why? because I run radio control/battery pack in the diesels, so maintenance is removing sticks, leaves, and an occasional pile of poop left by a squirrel, cat, or whatever. Guess what? Have the best operation in the backyard.