I had to chuckle when a comment was made on the "Buying Track" thread on brass track still being a good alternative to nickel track. Then the inevitable anti-brass comments started. This argument has played out at least a couple of times since I started on this forum a year or so ago.
It is like the what is best? Ford or Chevy? You will never convince me that nickel is better and I will never convince you that brass is fine to use. So, those new folks trying to make the decision can either look up the old threads on "brass track" or we can relist all the pros and cons of each type.
Then there's steel track. Hey, the real thing uses steel.....
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
Thanks for reminding me I need to break out the CMX car and clean my track this weekend....
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
eaglescout It is like the what is best? Ford or Chevy?
It is like the what is best? Ford or Chevy?
Well...yes it would be like that if say 99.9% of people bought Fords and 1/10th of 1% drove Chevys, and every car magazine and TV show pointed out that Chevys were known to have serious faults that made them difficult to keep running properly.
megh...
I use both...yards in brass, mainline in nickle silver...both work fine by me.
Some people get wrapped around the axle all too easily about things like this...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
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If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof?
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
wjstix eaglescout: It is like the what is best? Ford or Chevy? Well...yes it would be like that if say 99.9% of people bought Fords and 1/10th of 1% drove Chevys, and every car magazine and TV show pointed out that Chevys were known to have serious faults that made them difficult to keep running properly.
eaglescout: It is like the what is best? Ford or Chevy?
And you ignore the imports being better than both.
But hey I thought this was a model trains forum - why are we talking about cars and trucks?
Most of us use what we're comfortable with. We don't change until it's not available or something is demonstrated to be better - at least for us.
In the case of brass, nickel silver and steel all 3 can work, but availability of brass and steel is way down with a few exceptions (mostly large scale and 3 rail O gauge). So for practical purposes the market place has largely settled on nickel silver.
Enjoy
Paul
If you want the best track, perform the following test:
1- Obtain a 3 foot section of each type.
2- Clean both with the same bright-boy cleaning block.
3- Run the same loco back and forth on each three times.
4- Store both in the same place in the same orientation with the rails up for six months.
5- After that time, perform step number 3 and then decide which track is best.
No cheating. No track dusting or cleaning with ANYTHING. Just hook up the power and run the loco. You should clean the loco wheels before you start, and between each track test.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I can see people rationalizing not replacing brass track that was already installed or because they got it cheap.
I can't see where there's an argument that brass track is better at conductivity, is easier to maintain, or looks as realistic as N-S. Brass corrodes so that it doesn't conduct electricity as well, while N-S's corrosion is limited and conductive. Brass isn't available in code 83 or 70, which many modellers prefer for a more realistic profile.
Now if you're just arguing about your right to use brass, go for it. But as others have noted, the market has spoken. Brass is cheap, because most consumers realize N-S's superior performance is worth the extra cost. The brass track market is flooded with used track, which does make it a good value, until you factor in the elbow grease required to maintain it.
Me, I just prefer to spend my time building models, rather than cleaning track or putting up with the irritations of brass.
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
I don't know if the advantages or disadvantages of brass, nickle silver, or steel alloy track are really going to show themselves by running a train now and then on 3 foot sections.
All three types of track have been over the years been given very extensive and thorough opportunities to show their attributes in fair comparisons on large and well maintained model railroads in all sorts of conditions.
Dave Nelson
Well, have been using nickle silver since it was first offered and find it vastly superior to brass in maintenance and operating satisfaction. That said, my "train room" is my basement, with sheetrock walls, tile ceiling, carpeted or tile floors and no other distractions so the railroad runs just fine with little maintenance other than running a track cleaningCMX train around if I haven't operated in a couple of months (happens very rarely). Have been in HO since 1959 when I graduated from college and moved into my first basement (home). Have used brass, steel (blah, eck) and then nickle silver and nickle silver wins hands down for me.
I will throw another bone in the pile, I also do garden railroading in the backyard and I use aluminum track (Llagas Creek) and the switches are nickle silver. Why? because I run radio control/battery pack in the diesels, so maintenance is removing sticks, leaves, and an occasional pile of poop left by a squirrel, cat, or whatever. Guess what? Have the best operation in the backyard.
Bob
I use steel everywhere on my layout except in the staging where I use nickel silver. I wouldn't trade the steel for anything. The color of the nickel silver just doesn't sit right with me, even if the track is weathered and only the top of the rail is bare. If there is any extra maintenance and cleaning needed on the steel rail over the nickel silver it is barely noticeable. What is noticeable - traction on grades. Steel wins, hands down. Not even close.
Check out the Deming Sub by clicking on the pics:
LION buys cheapest tracks. Works fine. Him was given some brass, and did use it but it was the old flex track with the fiber ties. Used it only in straight sections in yards. It is gone now. The yards were replaced with a new four track mane lion. They did not remove as easily or as intact as NS even though it was never painted or ballasted.
It will be used in the PENN STATION exhibit on my layout. That will be a static exhibit showing off my older passenger cars and locomotives.
ROAR
The Route of the Broadway Lion The Largest Subway Layout in North Dakota.
Here there be cats. LIONS with CAMERAS
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Clearly Ford, they didn't need government money and are doing very well. And they build more pickup trucks in a month or two then Toyota builds in a year, and their quality ratings are as high as Honda, and unlike recall king Toyota their recall numbers are very low. And over the last five years they have reduced their own internal warranty expense by more than 50%. But facts like that should never get in the way of emotionally driven opinion. Sheldon
Clearly Ford, they didn't need government money and are doing very well. And they build more pickup trucks in a month or two then Toyota builds in a year, and their quality ratings are as high as Honda, and unlike recall king Toyota their recall numbers are very low. And over the last five years they have reduced their own internal warranty expense by more than 50%.
But facts like that should never get in the way of emotionally driven opinion.
Sheldon
Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I have some brass track on my layout and it gets no dirtier than my NS track. But, I run my trains everyday so that helps.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
IRONROOSTER And you ignore the imports being better than both. Paul
Imports? Most of the Toyota's, Honda's, BMW's, etc, etc, sold here are made here?
And all those companies make good cars, It's just shame they don't make cars that suit my needs.
I prefer cars that yout "get into" rather than "put on" and I require pickup trucks with 8' beds. So for me it really does not matter how good some of those brands are.
As for brass track, it does not suit my needs either.
gandydancer19 If you want the best track, perform the following test: 1- Obtain a 3 foot section of each type. 2- Clean both with the same bright-boy cleaning block. 3- Run the same loco back and forth on each three times. 4- Store both in the same place in the same orientation with the rails up for six months. 5- After that time, perform step number 3 and then decide which track is best. No cheating. No track dusting or cleaning with ANYTHING. Just hook up the power and run the loco. You should clean the loco wheels before you start, and between each track test.
That's no good way to test track, by firstly ruining it with a bright boy.... I would call the test satisfying if the rail was wiped with alcohol before the test cycle.
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I continue to chuckle as the controversy still rages. I was surprised to see an entry for steel track in the fray. Can't argue with it being the most prototypical and you wouldn't have to mess with weathering it, just leave it outside on a couple of humid days. Maybe Obama will give me a subsidy for recycling brass track rather than using up more natural resources and energy to produce nickel track.
The biggest enemy to brass track was the brass wheels that was used on locomotives these wheels gathered dirt faster then a hound does fleas which resulted in spotty operation and IMHO there lays the confusion about brass track.
Also one was wise to paint brass track in order to kill the brass look..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
pastorbobI will throw another bone in the pile, I also do garden railroading in the backyard and I use aluminum track (Llagas Creek)
Yep.
Brass is teh Evilz...
it is a very poor conductor..makes one wonder how people ever managed to get anything working on it.
it could not be cleaned to save your neck...wonder how anyone managed to clean it and run stuff on it with no problems..maybe they were all lying....
You could not have it on any grade because...well..the wheels would slip and all that..of course, no one bothers to check out how prototypical that is...
watch?v=xhG1bm7D Q&feature=relmfu
Like I said before...I've used both brass and n/s for awhile now..and no real issues to deal with...
watch?v=ihCHzS4jTM&feature=related
Of course locomotives like the T-1's had issues like that too....
My train room is actually the family room and is located on the main floor of my house.
My layout has two yard areas that are predominately brass and the mainlines of the layout are mainly nickle silver with some steel trackage. The reason for the brass is that years ago I was given a large number of crossovers, double slip and number 6 switches all which were brass.
I clean my tracks with a quick spray of an ignition spray and wipe the exposed tracks with a cotton rag. I then run a set of Bachmann track cleaners for a few rounds around the layout and and a bit of the yard areas that are not occupied with cars. This takes me about 10 minutes top for time. I also use Wahl clipper oil about every six months
I run my layout about once a week, both sound and non sound engines and can certainly verify that the sound engines are more likely to react to dirty track than non sound engines. All freight and passenger cars have metal wheels.
I clean my track about every other month even though none of the engines run indicate any hesitation nor do the engines with sound have any adverse sound distortions that I have noticed.
I can not seen any difference with the oxidation of the track between the nickle silver, the brass or the steel.
If the track was placed outside of course I would see oxidation but that is not where the layout is.
BATMAN Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
blownout cylinderBrass is teh Evilz... it is a very poor conductor...
it is a very poor conductor...
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I think don7 is closest among the brass track enthusiasts to the truth -- it really depends on your environment. Moist or pollution-laden climates will have more problems with brass track. However, some people will use it and never notice the difference. The reason? The environment differs.
You roll the dice using brass track if you're not certain that it holds up well in the environment at your location. If you go with N-S, you can be certain this won't be an issue. If you use brass and have no problems, then the outcome is merely lucky, not controversial.
So I guess I still am missing what the controversy is. Brass corrodes and this doesn't conduct. N-S oxidizes, but it's a conducting oxidant that forms. If you like cleaning track regularly, brass is what you pick. Again, if that's part of model railroading for you, no problem.
I have a few pieces of Atlas brass track that sits in a box from 4 decades ago. I look at it from time to time and it just keeps getting darker. Sort of like a shrunken head, it's curious, but not something I'd bother laying to run trains on. Maybe the off-gassing acid in the Athearn cardboard box it's in is contributing to this? That just reinforces the point I made earlier.
If you are happy with brass, then by all means, use it. Your choice. Mine just happens to be NS after years of using about everything there is.
Texas Zepher BATMAN: Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes. Hey, I think I've been there. Is that Tomichi Pass up toward the Alpine Tunnel of the D&SP?
BATMAN: Agreed! However I have a brass Ford and it is always dirty. It could be the environment I use it in. Chasing Railroad Ghost can be a dirty business sometimes.
Hey, I think I've been there. Is that Tomichi Pass up toward the Alpine Tunnel of the D&SP?
Nope. It is on the Kettle Valley line somewhere between Rock Creek and Penticton B.C.
By the way I don't take my Wench with me either, she hates driving along the top of 1000' high cliff's. After this trip, upon returning home, my little guy told her that when he looked out the window he couldn't even see any road next to the truck, just a long drop into the river below. He can't wait for our next trip boldly going where even the railroad gave up.
PS; Keeping on topic I didn't find any brass track along the old roadbed.
I'm waiting for someone to come up with copper rail....
simon1966 If you are a die-hard brass user, happy with it, and ecstatic that the hobby assigns little value to it. Why on earth would you want to ruin this perception so that the used market for this track goes through the roof?
It seems you have not tried to buy used brass track lately, it's almost impossible to buy and I believe the answer is the pro-non-brass people simply throw the old brass track in the dump. Will it be long that brass track will be sold along with brass locomotives? ?