"Hey, Do We Have Baggage or What !?!?"
Baggage car #7715 on Montauk bound train #4
You know, I was sitting here the other day browsing the web, looking at pictures of people's layouts and such-- and it struck me, I don't think I've ever seen a baggage car on a model railroad that actually had baggage in it! Sure, you see baggage piled up high at the stations, out on the platform or on the baggage trolleys, maybe even a porter or two lugging the stuff around... but when does it ever get loaded on the train??? surely it can't stay there on the dock forever!
Speaking of porters, that's another thing I was thinking about this week... people on the layouts. Personally, I think they really add something to a scene. Round it out-- make it "tell a story", as we're so often directed. Plus they make our towns and cities and rural communities look "lived in", not to mention give our trains some "life" as well-- make 'em look like they're actually engaged in commerce and the business of transporting passengers. On the other hand, I also think they can kill an otherwise great-looking scene in a hurry. It's kind of one of those double-edged sort of things... Speaking only for myself, I can't recall ever seeing an HO scale (or any other regular hobby scale) person that actually looked "natural", or "life-like" (Life-Like brand, notwithstanding...) They always look a bit stiff and "plastic" to my eye. What do you think?
So, Those are my questions for this week!
As usual, I'm looking forward to your thoughts and opinions, photos too if you got 'em!
John
Sure, you see baggage piled up high at the stations, but when does it ever get loaded on the train??? surely it can't stay there on the dock forever!
Ah, a problem! Because it does stay there forever. Except I vaguely recall Lionel or American Flyer once had an operating accessory where baggage was actually loaded (or appeared to be) on a conveyor or something.
But yes usually, it just sits there, as does almost everything ecept the trains.The trains move, and sometimes there is another animation-- usually a repeating cycle. I saw someone who had an animated minature backhoe that dug and dug. But the hole never got any deeper.
I wouldn't be so much of a problem on a model of a passenger station that has dozens of trains a day. The bags that are still around after the 7:15 leaves are there for the 7:33 apparently.
However, that wouldn't work for my passenger station which only has two trains a day. So I need to live with some kind of compromise. Some passengers and baggage but not so many as to look astonishingly out of place during the long intervals.
I want to model both day and night operations...
And that presents a problem. Some scenes that are part of a great scene just do not work at night. Not so much of a problem vice versa. I can turn the lights on in my pleasure pier nightclub for the night scene.
Turn them off for the day scene and the interior disappears. Same for the red lights at the Hot-cha-cha gentlemen's club.
But a beach with hundreds of bathers sunbathing at night doesn't look quite right. Maybe can find some way to keep them scrupulously unlighted-- though I will want to have streetlights on the seawall boulevard.
I think posing figures creatively can help- poses that suggest a relationship more than an impossibly frozen action. So can "casting" figures like character actors in a movie. Finding an imagined role and character, and then detail painting or modifying the figure to fill out that chracter-- like costuming and putting makeup on an actor.
Yes, it's still a compromise. But isn't all art?
(Shameless copout)
I supposed I did emphasize the baggage-on-the-platform aspect, but my original thought is that you see an occasional boxcar rolling with its doors open, and sometimes modelers take advantage of the opportunity to model some crates, or maybe some leftover rubbish from the previous shipment. You see folks do that even more often with gondolas and flat cars-- most likely since cargo in those cars are typically out in the open for everybody to see. But you occasionally (used) to see a baggage car on the prototype rolling past with its door open, or maybe partially open, and could get a peek or two at the stuff inside. For some reason though, that's not an element that many people choose to model. They do diners, coaches, sleepers, pullmans and business and RPO cars-- sometimes they'll even do the interior of a baggage car-- but not so often do they model them engaged in hauling baggage.
Thanks for the reply. I always enjoy the pictures you post, especially the ones showing your meticulously detailed interiors. You've sure got a good concept going, and a really well-defined place you're modeling!
Back when my extra duties included loading mail in mail storage cars, we worked hard to keep everything AWAY FROM the car doors - even during the Christmas rush.
As for the loaded bags and unmoving passengers on the platform, I recall a display I saw shortly after WWII that used a three-sided scene surface - a little, then some, then a lot - then back to a little. Building something like that into a station platform should be possible, but it would only be worthwhile for a display like Miniatur Wunderland (sp?)
I have seen some very lifelike figures. They were made by the modeler, building up material around a bent-wire `skeleton' a la John Allen. No bases (one leg bone was long enough to put in a hole in the scenery surface) and the clothes were muted colors oversprayed with dullcote. One advantage was natural appearance - the roofer pounding shingle nails looked as if he was really working on a sloped roof. Experimenting with that technique is on my `to do' list - several inches below the operating TBM...
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)
This thread has given me an idea for (future) use.
I can't quite see streamliners speeding past with baggage doors open to display the interior (except in the case of fantrips with photographers' car...)
AND I would not normally want to set and reset little figures and details all over the layout during normal operating sessions to make the details and figures "right" for that particular moment in the operation- train arrival and departure for example.
But IF I had a baggage car with doors that could be opened, it might be worthwhile to model the inside as if in the process of handling baggage or more especially, express. When the train arrives at destination, express car could be moved to REA office and it would take only 2 or 3 seconds to open the door and create an instant scene to play out during time car is laying over. Simply close door to prepare car to go in departing train.
Thanks for (goading me into) the idea.
Baggage cars generally only have their doors open at the station, and most models don't allow you to have open doors without doing some surgery. This old Mantua car, though, does have sliding doors built in.
Now you can see why it's a good idea to keep the doors closed.
On the other hand, I love to modify loading docks so that the doors are open and you can see the activity inside. I removed the molded-on doors from this DPM freight house, cut them in two and remounted them in an open position. Then I applied my usual computer-printed graphics to the floors and walls, and added "stuff" to the scene.
At night, this kind of mini-scene stands out.
I still have a lot of old figures from my childhood layout. Most of them are stiffly posed, as if modeled after military figures standing at attention. I've repainted many of them (how many guys do you see in hunter green business suits, after all?) and I use them as "extras" in station scenes, or as the occupants of buildings when I do interiors. (See two pictures up.) Newer figures are better posed. I particularly like these Preiser figures, who all came in one set.
Being "at rest" rather than posed walking or running, the scene looks more real, rather than a snapshot frozen in time by the camera.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
Unlike boxcars, most baggage cars don't have movable or opening doors. At least I haven't seen any. (Maybe I wasn't looking either.) Therefore one just has to use their imagination that there is actually baggage in the baggage car.
As far a people on a layout goes, the ones that look the most realistic are the ones that are not posed moving. That is, if the person is just standing there, or in another pose that doesn't suggest movement, I think they would look more realistic. This is what I have been thinking about when getting figures for my layout.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
MisterBeasley Now you can see why it's a good idea to keep the doors closed.
HA! I *love* it!! That's hilarious
So what's for desert?
Er... Plastic Moose!
MisterBeasley On the other hand, I love to modify loading docks so that the doors are open and you can see the activity inside. I removed the molded-on doors from this DPM freight house, cut them in two and remounted them in an open position. Then I applied my usual computer-printed graphics to the floors and walls, and added "stuff" to the scene. At night, this kind of mini-scene stands out.
Very nicely done Sir!
It looks great!
gandydancer19 Unlike boxcars, most baggage cars don't have movable or opening doors. At least I haven't seen any. (Maybe I wasn't looking either.) Therefore one just has to use their imagination that there is actually baggage in the baggage car. As far a people on a layout goes, the ones that look the most realistic are the ones that are not posed moving. That is, if the person is just standing there, or in another pose that doesn't suggest movement, I think they would look more realistic. This is what I have been thinking about when getting figures for my layout.
Since when has molded-on doors ever stopped a real Model Railroader??? (Or anybody at all with an x-acto knife, for that matter??)
(Just kidding)
Actually, several of the baggage cars I have do have sliding doors. Particularly on the Bachmann Spectrum series cars-- I have to actually tape them shut on some of them they're so easy to open. After reading some of the other replies, I'm definitely going to have to try my hand at putting some baggage in there.
Quote from MisterBeasley: "On the other hand, I love to modify loading docks so that the doors are open and you can see the activity inside. "
I had an old Heljan/ Concor cold storage warehouse I picked up cheap at a used stuff table. Used it to fill out a diorama for posing rolling stock pictures. Just to make it look different from the stock kit, I cut off the tower. I also cut open the doors which were glued shut.
For an interior, I had an old plastic something-- part of a case or box I guess. I save these things for "junk-bashing." Made a shallow "box" to fit inside open loading doors, with a few boxes and "stuff."
Wood cut up to make stacked "cartons" arranged in rows and aisles to line up with door. That metal thing with the numbers 226 858 H973 is something I got oiut of scrapped consumer electronics thingy. I cut craft paper into little squares to make 2D stacks on "cartons" on the backdrop of th shallow scene.
Not detail, just impression.
Interesting questions to ponder for this weekend, so here are my thoughts.
I love baggage cars personally. I always saw them as a neat passenger car that one can include in many different consists. I personally love seeing photos, real and modeled, of passenger trains with numerous baggage cars whether they'd be at the head-end of a railroad's high-class all Pullman flagship train or a lowly baggage and mail extra. All the same, gotta love those baggage cars! But one thing I notice in those photos, the baggage cars, those I've seen, never have open doors unless they're stopped at the station. So I suppose that's one reason they're not usually modeled that way. Also, many baggage car models have doors that are part of the body molding or present some significant difficulty to being modeled in the open position. To bad though, I'd been looking at the two I have and thought that it'd be be neat if they could be modeled in the open position, particularly if you can show them full of REA-branded crates and other wares. Alas, not anytime soon.
About modelling people on our layouts. I've found for myself that to often figures are not painted particularly realistically, they lack shadows and any sense of depth the way they're painted, and I've seen as such on well-known layouts (no I am not naming any) or in photos of layouts where everything else looks good, structures, scenery, the trains themselves, but then the figures seem rather toylike in their finish work. They do need to be well positioned, something requiring experimentation and practice by modelers so that one's skills in composition grow (think of creating photos and other artistic works) and as the OP said, so they look like a natural part of the scene. Otherwise, if poorly placed, they'd look quite out of place.
Alvie
Baggage is much like any load. If it is visible it ought to be going somewhere, and not coming back. My layout started as a logging operation and one of the things that puzzled me was how to make a realistic load that only travels from the timber operation to the mill (logs are rarely hauled back to the logging camp, right?). Maybe baggage that just hangs around the station starts to look a little odd, too.
My solution was to broaden the scope of my railroad so that there are occasional log loads, but more boxcars than anything. The passenger train operates with a self-service baggage process - passengers carry it on and stow it, then carry it off; the only baggage you see is in the possession of a tiny passenger waiting at the station.
Regarding people, I find the key in the colors of paint chosen. Most commercially painted figures are too brightly clothed to seem real. I paint mine myself and use subdued shades of blue, brown, gray, tan, etc. I also give them a good coat of dullcoat (people are generally not glossy). I know that they are still just representations, at best.; still, figures draw viewers into our scenes. I think it's human empathy that has us look at a 3/4" person and imagine their world - with figures a layout becomes more than a model; it becomes a place.
Myself, I'm very satisfied with the figures that we have available for purchase, today (except that the colors are a little bright). Their poses seem realistic every day/any street-corner poses. If you look at folks in the 1:1 world, most of the time they're not doing much - usually standing, walking, sitting and usually in small groups. One way to make figures look more realistic is to bunch them together in little clusters.
Here are a few shots of my drab little people:
I like this scene a lot, it just seems natural.
This guy actually has a job: he's there to indicate the position for the turntable polarity switch - when he faces the front the switch should be up.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
jwhitten
...just made a computer wallpaper by cropping apx. 80% of the camera/cover picture with IrfanView, and then resizing with "no aspect ratio" and "best fit to desktop" setting -- The perspective of the camera straps really adds pizazz along with the trackside workers. Here's the original MRR-issue.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
tgindy jwhitten: ...just made a computer wallpaper by cropping apx. 80% of the camera/cover picture with IrfanView, and then resizing with "no aspect ratio" and "best fit to desktop" setting -- The perspective of the camera straps really adds pizazz along with the trackside workers. Here's the original MRR-issue.
jwhitten:
Try this one (image), it's a lot of fun. I was going to go with that one at first but I wasn't sure about its status.
I have a few cars built with operating doors, so occasionally take advantage of that opportunity.
A Tichy car with "grain doors":
Sometimes it's necessary to move a car before crews have finished unloading it (another Tichy car):
It looks like the unloading crew has gone for a break until the truck comes back to the team track (Red Caboose X-29 boxcar):
A lot of my "empty" open cars aren't truly empty (Intermountain composite gondola):
...and I do have a combine with operable doors (originally a Rivarossi diner - shortened somewhat). Since it's usually in mixed train service, there's more freight than luggage in the baggage compartment:
I don't have a lot of people on the layout yet, although most vehicles on the roads do have drivers and sometimes passengers, too. I leave the vehicle body separate from the chassis, in case I need the vehicle for a parking lot scene. The joyriders can be removed, although I have to make sure that their carcasses get put back in the proper vehicle, as amputations are customised to suit.
Wayne
doctorwayne Wayne
So how much extra did they have to pay to keep their legs and feet???
As usual, I love your layout photos!
jwhitten So how much extra did they have to pay to keep their legs and feet??? As usual, I love your layout photos! John
Thanks for your kind words, John. The guy driving the Jordan Products Essex does have his legs, but the feet are gone. I think that my knife-and-file work on his hat would have been more distressing, had he not been anesthetized at the time. He never budged, though, even when I ended his need for haircuts. It's a pity they build these modern automobiles with such limited headroom.
doctorwayne jwhitten: So how much extra did they have to pay to keep their legs and feet??? As usual, I love your layout photos! John Thanks for your kind words, John. The guy driving the Jordan Products Essex does have his legs, but the feet are gone. I think that my knife-and-file work on his hat would have been more distressing, had he not been anesthetized at the time. He never budged, though, even when I ended his need for haircuts. It's a pity they build these modern automobiles with such limited headroom. Wayne
jwhitten: So how much extra did they have to pay to keep their legs and feet??? As usual, I love your layout photos! John
No, actually I think its a quite sensible approach. I've often wondered why they put so much leg room into modern automobiles. You know, given the range of variation in size and shape of the general population it would make so much more sense, from a manufacturing point-of-view, to simply make all the cars one size and then trim the customer to fit. Additionally, considering how weight-conscious our society has become, it would likely be a terrific selling feature as well-- buy a new car and lose 40 lbs., all at the same time!
You might just be on to something...
jwhitten Try this one (image), it's a lot of fun. I was going to go with that one at first but I wasn't sure about its status.
Thanks again! We've got another desktop wallpaper winner!
jwhitten But you occasionally (used) to see a baggage car on the prototype rolling past with its door open, or maybe partially open, and could get a peek or two at the stuff inside.
An RPO with the small door opened going by a station, might be the closest I would allow for safety reasons. Any train crew opening or allowing an open door on a baggage or combined car to stay open while the train was moving would find their plasticky little selves looking for employment elsewhere.
Oh the other hand, a half loaded baggage car in front of the REA building as a static display could be very interesting.
As for the plasticky little people, it is one of the downfalls of a small scale. The only tiny people I am happy with are minatures I created for Dungeons and Dragons. It took about 20 hours each for them. There is no way I can justify that much time for each figure on a normal model railroad requirement.