galaxy " caveat Emptor" and Buyer beware and READ what teh advertisement REALLY says!!!
" caveat Emptor" and Buyer beware and READ what teh advertisement REALLY says!!!
I checked the monthly sails flyers, I checked the Walther's catalog, I checked the poster in the hobby shop, and I checked the on-line catalog. In combination all of these use one or multiple of the phrases "real metal finish" (like the Super Chief set last December), the actual words "Santa Fe El Capitan Streamlined Car Ready to Run w/Plated Finish", or 'real metal "stainless steel" finish'.
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/932-9730
Any person who has purchased Walthers plated cars before (which I have both the Super Chief and Amtrak cars that used these same phrases) would have reasonably expected these to match.
I won't bother with arguing over ad copy, because as a Rio Grande modeller I don't have a dog in this fight...
However, to me plated models just don't look realistic. In fact, it makes things look downright toy-like. I saw one pic -- a bad one, but good enough to compare -- comparing the finish used on a previous run of Santa Fe passenger cars and this new run from Walthers. The finish LOOKS right, which to me is what counts on a model, right?
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
Texas Zepher I heard the El Capitan cars from Walthers were arriving so I went into Caboose Hobbies today. Sure enough they had about 20 of them on the shelf. I saw the unit and couldn't belive my eyes. The prices are the same as the Super Chief last December, but they are not plated cars. I went back to the Walthers catalog and they are clearly advertised with a metal finish.
I heard the El Capitan cars from Walthers were arriving so I went into Caboose Hobbies today. Sure enough they had about 20 of them on the shelf. I saw the unit and couldn't belive my eyes. The prices are the same as the Super Chief last December, but they are not plated cars.
I went back to the Walthers catalog and they are clearly advertised with a metal finish.
They are advertised with a "metal finifh"...that does not say "plated", "metal" of anything of the sort.
The description SAYS "with a Metal finish" That could mean anything from real metal applied on metal, to real metal applied on plastic, to PAINTED "metalic look" PAINT applied, to anything they consider a "metal finish".
My trailer's roof has a "metal finish" on it...it is a reflective fibergalss/metalic reflective coating to protect the roof from leaking. GOod for 5 years.
"Metal finish" does NOT necessarily mean it is "Metal"!!!
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Motley Rich has a good point. I mean, they do match my first run Super Chief cars. And I could run them interchangeably like the prototype did. But, to be honest, I wanted the look of the new plated Super Chief cars. After I call them sometime today, I'll report back here what I find out.
Rich has a good point. I mean, they do match my first run Super Chief cars. And I could run them interchangeably like the prototype did.
But, to be honest, I wanted the look of the new plated Super Chief cars.
After I call them sometime today, I'll report back here what I find out.
Michael,
If you call, ask for Amy. She pretty much has her finger on the pulse of what is going on at Walthers at all times.
Rich
Alton Junction
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
AntonioFP45 Guys, This may be "hearsay" but according to info on another forum.........the cars are actually plated but exhibit a finish that "supposedly" is designed to help match the "painted" units more closely. IMHO, the best thing to do is to get the info from the horses mouth and either email or telephone Walthers.
Guys,
This may be "hearsay" but according to info on another forum.........the cars are actually plated but exhibit a finish that "supposedly" is designed to help match the "painted" units more closely.
IMHO, the best thing to do is to get the info from the horses mouth and either email or telephone Walthers.
Well, this sure muddies the water even further.
Amy, Walthers Customer Service Representative, can undoubtedly shed some light on this growing mystery.
What are purchasers of these cars looking for or expecting? Plated cars with unique finishes? Plated cars that match the prior painted cars?
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
ho modern modeler I picked up my El Cap RPO car yesterday. By itself the finish is quality, and if the whole train is the same it will be cool, but if we all paid for a plated car I think we got duped. Walthers, you own the Forum, you have the floor.......
I picked up my El Cap RPO car yesterday.
By itself the finish is quality, and if the whole train is the same it will be cool, but if we all paid for a plated car I think we got duped. Walthers, you own the Forum, you have the floor.......
Wow, after reading through this thread, I gotta agree with the above statement. Walthers clearly owes an explanation to its customer base.
As a proud owner of a consist of older, silver colored, plastic Athearn streamlined Santa Fe passenger cars that I originally bought for less than ten bucks apiece a few years back, I truly feel for you guys spending up to $80 or more per car or more and then getting duped, or misled, or whatever.
This really is a confusing situation. As I read through the thread, I counted nine different terms to describe the finish on these Walthers cars: plated, metal finish, metal plated, real metal finish, real metal finish simulating stainless steel, flash of silver, stainless steel finish, realistic metal finish and plated finish.
I cannot even sort this all out. It is totally confusing trying to grasp the finish on the older cars, the newer cars, the Super Chiefs, the El Capitans, the first runs, the second runs.
Are all of these cars plastic? Or, are some actually metal?
hobo9941 Patience is a virtue. I'll wait and pick them up for half price in the sale flyer, like all their other name trains.
Patience is a virtue. I'll wait and pick them up for half price in the sale flyer, like all their other name trains.
Duplicate post see below.
I entered "el capitan" in the advanced search and went to the Walthers section.
The site lists eight cars individually and says "w/Plated Finish" for each. The prices range from $70 to $80.
The deluxe set does not appear to say it is plated, but at $107 average per car, it clearly ought to be. And customers had every reason to believe they would be. If Walthers had chosen not to plate the set, they should have CLEARLY said so.
Ed
Just a thought......
I wonder if Walthers' might have made an unintentional slip up.
In the past (before Walthers started offering plated cars), if I'm not mistaken, Walthers advertised their first Super Chief as having a "realistic metal finish" which appeared to be a silver paint with a very fine, brilliant pigment.
The unit being offered currently is almost identical in finish, except with a slightly higher sheen.
But common-sense "should have" dictated to Walthers marketing rep that his/her passenger train customer base has become very familiar with the plated Pine, Regal, and Super Chief units. So introducing or re-releasing models with the advertised phrase "Real Metal Finish" would likely cause modelers to expect plated finishes. I can't imagine Walthers deliberately misleading customers, considering that so many of us already pinch our hobby dollars.
Do you guys think that this could be the case here?
The prices are actually higher for the El Cap cars, than the Super Chief cars.
Super Chief cars are $64.95
El Cap cars are $79.95
I'm going to contact Walthers tomorrow and see what they say.
I think if Walthers stated real metal finish in the description and people have gotten used to Walthers most recent offerings - newest Superliners and latter run Super Chief, I think buyers would have "assumed" these new El Capitan b-level's would be up to that standard. If they aren't produced that way, I have a feeling Walthers is going to be getting a lot of negative feedback, especially conderning the price. Higher prices people have higher expectations. I know I'd be upset if I forked over a thousand for a train set and it ididn't have the expected finish and looked like basic silver finish paint.
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
Technically Walthers never promised that the metal finish would be plated to look like the re-released Super Chief cars. In fact, Walthers only promised a Real Metal Finish while the re-released Super Chief (and the re-tooled Superliners) promised a Real Metal Finish Simulating Stainless Steel. In both cases of the Super Chief and Superliners, the descriptions/ads tout the cars would have the look of simulating stainless steel. Note the the El Capitan ad/descriptions do not mention stainless steel anywhere.
Note how the El Capitan ad say "Mix & Match w/ Super Chief Cars - Just like the Prototype!" Didn't say they would look the same.
Also note the use of the word "silver" in the first sentence of the description: "Racing the clock between Los Angeles and Chicago, Santa Fe’s El Capitan thunders by in a flash of silver - right on time!" It didn't say a flash of "shiny stainless steel."
CONSPIRACY THEORY... the first run of the Super Chief was not plated and the new El Capitan cars seem to have the same finish despite saying that have a "real metal finish." A few years after the first release, the Super Chief is re-released with a finish that simulates stainless steel after perfecting the technology. Maybe Walthers is trying to sell more products by releasing the El Capitan without a stainless steel look right now and then a few years from now they "re-release" the train again but this time with "stainless steel" plating. So a lot of people buy the El Capitan now only to purchase it again in the future because of the "new" stainless steel finish. Hmm...
What the heck is this all about. I picked up my RPO car yesterday at Caboose Hobbies. I didn't have a chance to inspect it, until I saw this thread.
It's painted all right, in fact it looks like the first run of the Super Chief cars, which I have. They are identical finishes.
These things are expensive, and I assumed they were plated.
On the name train product page, it says:
The HI-LEVEL Train That’s Fun for Everyone! Racing the clock between Los Angeles and Chicago, Santa Fe’s El Capitan thunders by in a flash of silver - right on time! An instant success from its 1938 debut, the popular coach streamliner was refitted in 1956 with its signature Hi-Level cars. Inspired by the new domes on many luxury trains, passengers rode eight feet higher than a standard car, and had a magnificent view through large side windows. Based on El Capitan as it ran from 1956 to 1971, Walthers ninth HO Scale name train features eight new cars, plus matching 37-Class F7s from PROTO 2000® to build an authentic consist!
First Edition Cars come with: * Certificate of Authenticity * Special Equipment History
I picked up my El Cap RPO car yesterday, took it straight home and pulled out the Super Chief RPO for a side-by-side. I swear to Antonio it's (EC) not as shiny and/or unplated. By itself the finish is quality, and if the whole train is the same it will be cool, but if we all paid for a plated car I think we got duped. Walthers, you own the Forum, you have the floor.......
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
While I personally can't say that I have seen the sets for myself, the Walther website says that the that the 9- car set in question does not mention any metal plating (seem image below). The description for the INDIVIDUAL cars says they are suppose to be plated. I'm assuming you are referring to the 9-car set. It would seem silly that they wouldn't sell the set as metal plated but it doesn't say that it is suppose to.
/:550:0]
I went back to the Walthers catalog and they are clearly advertised with a metal finish. Did anyone order a set of these? Is the one that came with your pre-order plated? If not are you disappointed and going to complain or return it to them?