CP guy in TX Not really trying to bash the AT&SF.
Not really trying to bash the AT&SF.
Well, you've now told us twice that you are no fan of ATSF.
Me thinks thou dost protest too much.
Admit it, CP guy in TX, you are a closet Santa Fe fan. You want what you can't have. You are a Santa Fe wannabee. Admit it.
Rich
Alton Junction
MerrilyWeRollAlong,
Very good observation regarding the angle that we look at our cars. One facet about layout construction that has been gradually changing over the years is that more modelers are building shelf type layouts that are closer to chest height rather than the traditional "helicopter view" that we've been using since WWII.
This also has an effect on our view of plated/metalized cars. Mine is chest high which, for me, gives me the feel of being closer to a ground level view with the surrounding wall painted a sky blue color.
Good point regarding the prototype blue sky, which brings to mind the view Jason Shron of Rapido makes about using photos taken on overcast days as reference material for plating. Though not perfect, the tone and reflectivity of SS under overcast/clouded conditions appears much more neutral and modelers and manufacturers can more realistically gauge what tints would provide the intended effect.
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
Rich,
It is always best to keep deep DARK beliefs and thoughs to oneself :-)
I will say this though; I do have some AT&SF eqpt, (probably more than is healthy)
After all, let's face it, warnonnet F units can melt the hardest of hearts. That's as close to an admission as you'll get :-/
Seriously though, I'd be somewhat upset if I had laid out a hunred bucks each for those cars. I have a few old con-Cor cars from the 90's with a more realistic finish, in my opinion.
If Walthers really blew it here, I'm hoping that the same thing won't happen to all of us, me included, who will eventually get our $1500.00 CP "The Canadian" sets when Rapido finally get's them done....
Van Hobbies H1b, K1a, T1c, D10g, F1a, F2a, G5a. Division Point: H24-66 Hammerhead, Alco covered wagons A-B-B-A, C-Liner A-B-B-A, EMD FP7A A-B-B.
H1b modified to replicate modern day 2816. All with Tsunamis.
Hey Guys....."Stainless Steal"
Is it too late to rename this thread?
Mine doesn't move.......it's at the station!!!
Motley I still don't know how they claim. To still have a metal finish, but just not as shiny. I think that's BS. Here is a side-by-side photo of my OLD first release Super Chief RPO, and the NEW El Cap RPO. Can you tell me which one is which?
I still don't know how they claim. To still have a metal finish, but just not as shiny. I think that's BS.
Here is a side-by-side photo of my OLD first release Super Chief RPO, and the NEW El Cap RPO.
Can you tell me which one is which?
I appreciate you posting that pic. That helped me make up my mind about buying the Walthers hi level cars. Right now I have an El Cap/Super Chief that I built using Walthers cars, brass car sides, and TSP hi level cars. I was excited when I heard that Walthers was releasing the hi level cars because I wanted to replace everything with the Super Chief plated cars and the Walthers hi level cars (when I thought they were going to have the same plating), especially since Walthers released a true Regal 4/4/2 sleeper.
It looks as if I am just as well off sticking with my current cars and buying one of the TSP/Palace Car Company lounges when they decide to produce some more.
Antonio,
I did take a moment to quickly read through your Alclad thread. Neat stuff.
I'm more the spray can type
Now that I have my BLI Zephyr, I've probably got 95% of all the stainless rolling stock I'll ever have. I plan on painting more in the future, so good to know about your experiments.
AntonioFP45 SNIP As for glare and reflection.....I've been researching and have concluded that with regards to metalizing/plating the plating should be matched to the prototype and instead modelers should change/adjust the lighting. Reflective surfaces tend to scale themselves, especially under daylight corrected lights. This is an aspect of the hobby that should be explored and discussed in greater depth. A significant number of modelers today have layouts that they've invested thousands of dollars in and yet,.................old fashioned 1970s technology shop florescent bulbs or incandescent 60-75 watt bulbs hang glaringly on the ceiling! Unlike a decade ago, lighting options in varying color temperatures for the typical bedroom or basement have expanded greatly and prices are affordable now. High Greens
SNIP
As for glare and reflection.....I've been researching and have concluded that with regards to metalizing/plating the plating should be matched to the prototype and instead modelers should change/adjust the lighting. Reflective surfaces tend to scale themselves, especially under daylight corrected lights. This is an aspect of the hobby that should be explored and discussed in greater depth. A significant number of modelers today have layouts that they've invested thousands of dollars in and yet,.................old fashioned 1970s technology shop florescent bulbs or incandescent 60-75 watt bulbs hang glaringly on the ceiling!
Unlike a decade ago, lighting options in varying color temperatures for the typical bedroom or basement have expanded greatly and prices are affordable now.
High Greens
Yep, that light thing. Problem is it'll never be daylight and it always varies. That's why painting for your layout's lighting makes sense, along with the application of techniques like you discuss.
I'm using the Sylvania equivalent (they're pretty darn close to the GE bulb and that was what I had available cheap) to the GE Chroma 50 fluorescent bulbs in my fixtures. I do have considerable spot/flood lighting with some quartz track lighting, so that helps too. Good tips on the importance of this. Well worth the cost of changing bulbs that needed replaced anyway.
I picked up the Chroma 50 tip from NGSLG author Boone Morrison, who's an architect among his other skills. It's been a few years back, so don't remember the issue, but probably easily found by searching Boone's articles in the Gazette.
My conclusion: Change your bulbs before you paint your train accordingly -- or you'll have to do one over
Mike Lehman
Urbana, IL
My feeling on the finish of the El Capitan cars is this: if you have to look at the cars under special conditions to see the difference between them and ordinary silver painted cars, then Walthesr failed to do anything special to them. In effect, labeling them as "plated" could be contrued to too many modelers at the very least as misleading.
All people can do now if they like the shinier finish of the last run Chief cars is to wait and hope Walthers re-runs the El Cap's and do them "right" the second time. Could be they read the public opinion wrong this time - certainly my viewing of the photo's leads me to wonder what were they thinking? Or are they settling for something much less than ideal just to keep the project from getting further delayed. Unfortunate!
Rio Grande. The Action Road - Focus 1977-1983
CP guy in TX Rich, It is always best to keep deep DARK beliefs and thoughs to oneself :-) I will say this though; I do have some AT&SF eqpt, (probably more than is healthy) After all, let's face it, warnonnet F units can melt the hardest of hearts. That's as close to an admission as you'll get :-/ Seriously though, I'd be somewhat upset if I had laid out a hunred bucks each for those cars. I have a few old con-Cor cars from the 90's with a more realistic finish, in my opinion. If Walthers really blew it here, I'm hoping that the same thing won't happen to all of us, me included, who will eventually get our $1500.00 CP "The Canadian" sets when Rapido finally get's them done....
Gee, never thought of the similarity between the two. Well the pictures of the prototypes sure looked good. Those that saw the Rapido Canadian and reported what they saw were impressed. Will cross my fingers just in case.
For those who are subscribers the Cody's office part 2 of the IHobby show has a segment with the Walther's rep on these new passenger cars. He does use the word "plated" to descibe the finish on the production cars.
Well, I broke down and purchased one of the Walthers hi level cars. I have to say that I am quite happy with it. The only three things that I don't like are the trucks, the seperation between the roof and the body (right below the windows) and the two small imperfections in the roof from the injection molding process (although they are negligible and very tolerable). I haven't had a chance to get a good look at the interior yet, but found it interesting that there are tables between a coupel of the seats. The tinting is a little light, but seems alright. I have seen photos of the prototype cars, and in some photos the tinting was barely noticible, and in some photos, the tinting seems much darker. I suppose it has to do with the lighting in the photos.
The next thing is going to be painting the interiors. I wished there was a way to retrofit the interiors from my TSP hi level cars into the Walthers cars (which there may be, but I haven't even had a chance to take a serious look at that yet). I already have them painted and populated with passengers. I do have detailed info on what the interior colors of the hi level cars were, and will post that info if anyone is interested. This includes the carpeting. I saw some pics of the lounge (unpainted) and it looks great. I am really looking forward to getting my hands on that car.
Next big thing is going to see how this car looks next to the Super Chief cars that I have. I used Floquil bright silver to paint them with a coat of Future. I really would like to use the Super Chief cars that I have since the interiors are already painted and populated with passengers. They are a combination of Walthers cars and brass car sides using details from various manufacturers; in other words, a lot of work and money I would rather not abandon.
I think Walthers got this right, even with some apprehension in the beginning (to include myself). Now if they can just hurry up and get the Budd Sunset Limited on the market, I will be an extremely happy man. Based purely on my own assumptions, I suspect that this train is well on the way from Walthers.
I love the Santa Fe, but a Texas Special would be very nice.
By the way does anyone plan on running their new El Cap cars with their Intermountain cars? One of the things that stands out in my eyes is the silver brace in the middle of the Walthers cars windows is visibly absent from the Intermountain cars. I have been trying to think of a quick and easy fix.
SB
The brace in the windows is gonna be tough. I don't have any expereince with the Intermountain cars, but built several hi level cars using the Trains Station Products kits (Intermountain used those cars for their RTR releases). On the TSP kits, a company called American Model Builders makes laser cut windows/glazing for the TSP cars, and they are masked with the exception of a small strip to simulate the center brace. If you wanted to spend some money and a little time, you could get the AMB windows and spray them silver, so after you remove the masking you have the silver strip in the middle. Then remove the windows that came with the cars and replace them with those. That may be a little more work than it is worth. The AMB windows are a push fit, so that is easy enough. I am not sure how IM secured the windows to the car bodies, and I also heard that those cars are a pain to get apart.
Edit: Below is a pic of one of my cars. It isn't the best pic, but after looking at that, it doesn't seem that the hastle of what I described above would be worth it:
Since this thread came up again, I have to say that I decided to maintain my order until I saw the first car with high sides. It came last week. While I am still disappinted that it does not really match what I was expecting or either of the Super Chief sets, I will be keeping it and accepting the rest of the equipment that I pre-orderd. I still wish Walther's would have been more clear on exactly what we were to be getting, so we were not so surprised. It does make me more hessitant to advance order things in the future (not that I was always that big on doing that anyway).
It will make a fine looking standing alone train set.
When I make a 1969-1971 combine train I will be using the painted Super Chief cars. I will probably sell the plated ones. But that means I need to find three of the rare and illusive "painted" Regal series sleepers. I guess I can only hope in the future the Super Chief cars will be re-run with this finish. Then as a prior posted noted I will probably be hunting up some better looking trucks.
Texas Zepher I heard the El Capitan cars from Walthers were arriving so I went into Caboose Hobbies today. Sure enough they had about 20 of them on the shelf. I saw the unit and couldn't belive my eyes. The prices are the same as the Super Chief last December, but they are not plated cars. I went back to the Walthers catalog and they are clearly advertised with a metal finish. Did anyone order a set of these? Is the one that came with your pre-order plated? If not are you disappointed and going to complain or return it to them?
I heard the El Capitan cars from Walthers were arriving so I went into Caboose Hobbies today. Sure enough they had about 20 of them on the shelf. I saw the unit and couldn't belive my eyes. The prices are the same as the Super Chief last December, but they are not plated cars.
I went back to the Walthers catalog and they are clearly advertised with a metal finish. Did anyone order a set of these? Is the one that came with your pre-order plated? If not are you disappointed and going to complain or return it to them?
I am happy with the train so far except for the window tinting. After receiving my transition car, I installed the Railway classics tint glazing inside the regular windows and the picture is the result. The stainless look matches my Overland cars fairly well so Walthers did a good job overall. The trucks are not the correct wheelbase, but most cannot tell they are 8'6" instead of 9'.
The second picture is an Overland Lounge with a W&R baggage. Both of these match the new El Cap cars closely.
CZ
I've played my violin often over the course of the past three months reading these bellyaches and today a string finally snapped from wear; now I have something to bawl about!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Texas Zephyr,
Respectfully, why "settle" and sell off your beautiful plated cars? You want to keep the silver painted ones? The prototype Super Chief was a gorgeous gleaming work of art:
Have you considered using the Alclad metalizer on your painted Super Chief units to match the plated ones? It's now possible to pick your look.
IMHO, going back to silver on passenger cars is like selling off a newer Atlas GP35 and keeping the older Athearn Blue Box version.
If you decide to take this route, you can contact me off list (PM) and I'd be glad to help you. I've gotten positive feedback and the process is not difficult at all for any modeler that can point and shoot an airbrush.
Texas Zepher Since this thread came up again, I have to say that I decided to maintain my order until I saw the first car with high sides. It came last week. While I am still disappinted that it does not really match what I was expecting or either of the Super Chief sets, I will be keeping it and accepting the rest of the equipment that I pre-orderd. I still wish Walther's would have been more clear on exactly what we were to be getting, so we were not so surprised. It does make me more hessitant to advance order things in the future (not that I was always that big on doing that anyway). It will make a fine looking standing alone train set. When I make a 1969-1971 combine train I will be using the painted Super Chief cars. I will probably sell the plated ones. But that means I need to find three of the rare and illusive "painted" Regal series sleepers. I guess I can only hope in the future the Super Chief cars will be re-run with this finish. Then as a prior posted noted I will probably be hunting up some better looking trucks.
AntonioFP45Respectfully, why "settle" and sell off your beautiful plated cars? You want to keep the silver painted ones? The prototype Super Chief was a gorgeous gleaming work of art:
I can empathize as I stopped working on my layout because I have so many projects on my plate and for a while felt a bit frustrated (4 E-units awaiting painting and/or weathering plus DCC-sound, freight cars needing repairs, track & scenery work, several structure kits, DCC setup, ). So in addition to feeling stress from work, I was actually feeling it in my hobby! Something had to change.
After not touching anything train related for a couple of days, I followed the advice of my wife's cousin, became proactive and have been taking each project one at a time instead of trying to "multi-task". I now do "something" to a project at least 4 days out of my busy week. It's working out quite well as I'm now focusing on metalizing my passenger car fleet and am starting to feel relaxed again. My next project will be those P2K E-units and am looking forward to it even though it could be several months as I have 12 more cars to metalize, weather and detail.
Why not consider a similar approach. Take just ONE car only and give metalizing a shot? You may enjoy it and wind up with a group of cars that will match your plated units.
Anyone else stumped by the interior on the Walthers Step Up coach?
I have been trying to find out if there ever were tables like the Walthers interior has. Can't confirm nor deny. Anyone know for sure?
My interior diagram from a book shows no tables, just chairs:
The Walthers Step Up coach interior has a few tables with the seats facing each other. This set up reminded me of the Amtrak California cars used on the Pacific Surfliner. On the Amtrak cars, there are a few four person seats that face each other with a table. But I've never seen nor read about this on Hi-Level coaches in Santa Fe use.
Matt from Anaheim, CA and Bayfield, COClick Here for my model train photo website
Southwest Chief Anyone else stumped by the interior on the Walthers Step Up coach? I have been trying to find out if there ever were tables like the Walthers interior has. Can't confirm nor deny. Anyone know for sure? My interior diagram from a book shows no tables, just chairs: The Walthers Step Up coach interior has a few tables with the seats facing each other. This set up reminded me of the Amtrak California cars used on the Pacific Surfliner. On the Amtrak cars, there are a few four person seats that face each other with a table. But I've never seen nor read about this on Hi-Level coaches in Santa Fe use.
The seats in the hi level cars were reversible, so it is easy enough to explain that. As far as the tables go, many passenger cars had brackets on the walls that were made for small stowable tables (stowed in a closed when not in use). I am not sure if that is the case here or not. I was sort of baffled by the table myself. Someone somewhere had to have seen a table in a photo somewhere, unless they consulted someone to assist with the interior layout that was mistaken about tables being used in these cars.
Those look good. If I can figure out how to get the cars apart I will order some from AMB.
Thanks
The instructions are in the box for taking the cars apart.
Southwest ChiefMy interior diagram from a book shows no tables, just chairs:
While we are talking about interiors, any one know that proper color to paint the chairs and carpet?
I`m dissapointed that Walthers is doing more western trains than eastern trains.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Actually, I bought them off ebay and there are no instructions in the box.
Texas Zepher While we are talking about interiors, any one know that proper color to paint the chairs and carpet?
This is the info I have for the upper level:
Floor: Mottled brown and coral carpet
Chairs: Turquoise fabric
It seems that east has been king in the model train world for ages, so I'm happy to see western getting caught up personally. That also includes all the PC&F box cars and tunnel motors from Athearn as well BTW.
The disappointing thing for me about the hi level cars is that they are doing Amtrack phase I and II, but not phase III. The step down bi level cars used on the Amtrak California Zephyr was phase III paint, and Walthers shouldn't leave out such a major train!
riogrande5761 The disappointing thing for me about the hi level cars is that they are doing Amtrack phase I and II, but not phase III. The step down bi level cars used on the Amtrak California Zephyr was phase III paint, and Walthers shouldn't leave out such a major train!
I would be shocked if we don't see phase III and a few phase IV (plus Pacific Parlour car) paint from Walthers. It's just going to take time.
Heck, the Santa Fe versions are not even fully out yet.
Plus Walthers will have to alter the ends of the cars a bit to match the HEP conversions which phase III and above had.
So it's just going to take a little time. But I'm 99% sure we'll see at the very least a coach dorm in phase III and a Pacific Parlour car in phase III, IV, and the newest IVb.
Thank God I didn't order these. I saw them yesterday and they look cheap. I'll buy them on sale in a year.
On the other hand, I Plunked down all my stupid money on Rapido's new set almost two years ago, and I'm waiting with baited breath for it to get here.
If THAT set is bad, I'm gonna be very unhappy.
csmith9474 I am interested in the interior color information you mentioned in your March 7 post.