Seriously, what is Rapido thinking

[don7]

As I mentioned before I will order a set of the Canadian by Rapido. I will pay the deposit and then wait for the delivery of the set.

I want a set and based on the quality of the Rapido passenger cars I have purchased I have decided I will take the chance.

[galaxy]

I agree this would set a DANGEROUS precedent. I question:

1} what if RAPIDO DECLINES to manufacture the product "due to lack of orders"? Will they REFUND the DEPOSITS paid? And in a TIMELY MANNER?

2} IF Rapido DOES refund to those outlets offering the item, will the OUTLET get the refund back to the orderer in a TIMELY MANNER?

3} What if the quality is garbage when the product arrives and you decide not to pay the balance to complete the order...you MUST OBVIOUSLY be out your $320.00?

4}If the 25% down is $320.00 then the whole package must be $1,280.00.? I dunno, unless it is BRASS I wouldn't pay that for a set.

I say this is a time WE SHOW MANUFACTURERS who is BOSS. AND decline to order this item AT ALL sight un-seen with non-refundable deposit!!!

I hope EVERYONE who wanted one will DECLINE the deposit, OR that the deposits don't equal enough to manufacture the item and RAPIDO does NOT Refund the deposits, SO EVERYONE WILL TAKE NOTICE AND NOT PRE-ORDER AT ALL.

Just my  . Others may differ and I am sure there will be some hobbyists who WILL pay the PReORDER DEPOSIT.

[Rapido]

Motley

Why is Dallas Model Works telling me that the deposit is not refundable, and if I want to cancel the order, too bad.

What's up with that?

I understand your a small company, I didn't realize this until you said so.

$320 is a lot of money, and would if the shipment date slips? How long do I wait unitl I can say, you're not delivering the product, I want my refund back.

I'm thinking about it, I mean I want the train.

Oh and when I ordered, I was told a delivery date of November 2011. Is this still the same?

 

Hi Michael,

I'm glad you want the train.  The November 2011 delivery date was our best estimate at the time - heck when we announced it we were aiming for late 2010 - but then we spent an extra two years doing the R&D.  We had no idea it would be so difficult!  All of the real cars (except for one Park car) have been HEPed (converted to head-end power) and the original steam-heat blueprints were uncatalogued at a Bombardier warehouse in Mississauga.  Then once we got them we discovered that Budd did all their blueprints separately - steam on one, air on another, electrical on a third, AC electrical on a fourth, and water on a fifth.  So untangling that mess took over a year.

Long story short - the tooling is done and is in final tweaking stages right now.  Production will begin in September and our goal is to get the first product number out of the factory before Chinese New Year (mid-January).  The rest of the product numbers will arrive about one every month or two (depending on the size of the production of that number) and all will be here by the end of 2012.  Based on our past production experience, I can't see it taking longer than that.  We've never taken more than a year to do production before - once the tooling is done production moves relatively quickly.  It's the start of production that takes a long time - doing the painting masks, getting the metal parts and PCBs from our subcontractors, etc.  We'll start ordering materials next month after the August 5th order deadline so we have a head start on that.

We actually never stated that the deposits are non-refundable.  It would depend on the situation.  By placing an order and paying a deposit, the dealer makes a commitment to buy the train.  If he cancels within a few weeks, saying he made a mistake, then of course the deposit would be refunded as it is early enough to stop production of his train.  However, If the dealer comes to us two weeks before delivery and says "nah, I don't want it - give me my money back" I suspect we are legally allowed to keep his deposit as he is reneging on a commitment and we have already spent the money on his behalf.  I would have to check with my lawyer as I suspect the laws concerning this differ from province to province.

Best regards,

Jason

[sfcouple]

Forget the money, how about the quality?  I just logged on to the Rapido Website and looked at the photos of this passenger train.

The A unit has what appears to be a sloppy hatch design right to the left of the F.  And glue residue? on the uncoupling lever, immediately to the viewers right of the right front wheel. 

The B unit has hand rails (immediately to the viewers right of "Pacific") that do not line up with the horizontal and sloppy painting right below the F, along with a drooping coupler.  

No, I'm not a rivet counter and if this was my paint job I'd be very pleased.  But when purchasing a reasonably expensive locomotive/cars I expect more.  Yes, these are the first samples but don't they realize first impressions are very important?

http://www.rapidotrains.com/canadian4.html

Wayne

 

[Motley]

Why is Dallas Model Works telling me that the deposit is not refundable, and if I want to cancel the order, too bad.

What's up with that?

I understand your a small company, I didn't realize this until you said so.

$320 is a lot of money, and would if the shipment date slips? How long do I wait unitl I can say, you're not delivering the product, I want my refund back.

I'm thinking about it, I mean I want the train.

Oh and when I ordered, I was told a delivery date of November 2011. Is this still the same?

[Rapido]

Hi Michael,

The issue of deposits for The Canadian has been discussed on this group before, but I will do my best to summarize the situation.

1. The deposits were first mentioned in our newsletter in September 2010, not six weeks ago.  Our direct dealers knew about them in November 2008 (when we first announced the train) and it was my oversight that I forgot to tell my US distributors about them at the time.  We only realized that the distributors were left off the list this past May when some US dealers contacted us about the deposits - they had not heard anything from their distributors about the deposits and were wondering where to send them - and we informed the distributors immediately.  We do admit to being human and we do make mistakes.

2. Rapido is a very small company.  Maybe you think we are in the big leagues with access to millions of dollars of capital.  (I wish!)  We actually only have three full-time employees - Bill, Dan and me.  That's it.  The Canadian is a huge project for us and we simply can't afford to make it without the deposits.  

3. To this date we have not forced anyone to order this train, and we don't plan to.  If you don't like the idea of placing a deposit, don't order it.  There are no other Rapido products that require deposits.

4. Production of The Canadian will start this fall.  All I can give you is my word.  If we do not deliver the train, the deposits will of course be refunded.  The only projects we have not delivered on are projects where the orders were/are too low to start production - the LRC locomotive is a prime example, or the new Super Continental Line passenger cars which were delayed for almost two years because nobody was ordering them during the recession (the first shipment is finally en route now).  The Canadian has enough orders to start production immediately, and there is still over a week to go before the order deadline.

That's it from the horse's mouth.  If you don't approve, you don't have to buy the train.  If you are like me and you have waited a lifetime for an accurate model of this great Canadian icon, then a deposit is not going to change your mind.

Best regards,

Jason

[Flashwave]

I can't say as I can completley diassagree with your concerns, but you are missing the SCOPE. Rapido is a 3 man company with a factory in China. They DON'T HAVE the kind of capital to do the Canadian, but they know people want the train. That's why they are doing the deposit. if you are concerned, and there is history from other companies and that is a massive amount of money, thebn bite the bullet. Hope one shows up on Ebay. That's what it is. Walthers desn't do deposits on trains because they don't need to. Rapido needs to in order to do this project.

And I seem to recall that Rapido announced everything else goes back burner specifically so the Canadian can hit the deadline.  

[Motley]

don7

Interesting news about Walthers deciding not to participate in the wholesale distribution of the Rapido Canadian.

If anyone had followed the ongoing news of the Canadian on the Rapido site, the deposit of 25% was a known fact.

I want one of these sets, so I will forward my deposit, hold my breath and wait for delivery.

OK please tell me where this NON-REFUNDABLE 25% deposit is plastered all over their website?
http://www.rapidotrains.com/canadian.html

[rrinker]

 It's Dallas Model Works saying no refunds - for the simple reason they stated - they will not have the money. Now if Rapido ends up not producing the product, they defintely owe you a refund. You're not paying DMW, the retailer, you are paying Rapido Trains, the manufacturer.

          --Randy

 

 

[Motley]

Yes I was actually thinking about this has to be an illegal business practice.

Take this scenario...

You walk into a Best Buy, shopping for a new TV, you pick out a model, and the sales clerk walks you to the the cashier. You pay for the TV. Then expecting the clerk to bring the TV up front, they say "Oh we don't actually have any TVs here". "we will deliver your TV in a few months, 4, 5, 6 months, hell we don't know but we promise you will get the TV, trust us." And as you're wallking out, they also say "oh by the way, I forgot to tell you, NO REFUNDS!". "Thanks for your business, please come back again".

Now how many people do you think would buy TVs from Best Buy if they did this?

[locoi1sa]

Michael

 While I do agree with you that this is a bad idea, I am not a lawyer but I believe any deposit is refundable by law. When a deposit is required to hold or guaranty a product delivery this automatically becomes a legal binding contract of an arrangement between two parties. This may not apply to out of country agreements. A 25% deposit is very substantial in my book. This will lead me into another direction and manufacturer. This also leads me to think that the company does not believe that putting up their own capital to produce an item is cost effective. Good luck to Rapido. They will be a fallen flag shortly with a policy such as this.

      Pete

[Motley]

Thanks Rich.

And how many of these preorders from other companies do we see, (on almost a daily basis), we hear the delivery dates keep being set back.

I mean, I'm already *** off at this whole preorder thing anyways, but sometimes when I really want something, it's the only way.

But this thing with Rapido is just out of control. I'll keep my money and spend it on other trains that you can actually see and touch.

I love my LHS, if they have what I want, I walk out with it, take it home. Instant satisfaction. No waiting, no hassles, no promises.

[don7]

Interesting news about Walthers deciding not to participate in the wholesale distribution of the Rapido Canadian.

If anyone had followed the ongoing news of the Canadian on the Rapido site, the deposit of 25% was a known fact.

I want one of these sets, so I will forward my deposit, hold my breath and wait for delivery.

[richhotrain]

Even if Rapido ultimately delivers, it certainly does set a dangerous new precedent.

Michael, I agree with you and Walthers on your stance. 

Maybe Rapido will reconsider if enough people take the same position.

Rich

[Motley]

I just received this email that I placed my order for the Candian from Rapido.

---------------------------------------------------------

Hi Michael,

As you may have heard by now, about six weeks ago, Rapido announced that they would require a 25% deposit on all orders of The Canadian – this despite that fact that The Canadian had already been announced two years ago and many, many orders had already been placed by distributors, dealers and model railroaders.

According to Rapido, any orders not accompanied by a 25% deposit would be cancelled.

Our Rapido distributor in the US is Walthers. For weeks, Walthers deliberated whether or not they were going to participate in this unprecedented scheme.

Finally, at the beginning of this week, Walthers decided that no, they were not going to participate and that all orders for The Canadian would be cancelled.

Frankly, I don't blame them at all, given Rapido’s track record of consistently missed deadlines.

Furthermore, this deposit scheme sets a dangerous precedent.

Too many manufacturers already announce products without having any idea of whether or not the market wants said product. Too much time is wasted and disappointment caused when model railroaders order these products and they take years to be released – if ever.

Starting a deposit scheme means the manufacturer puts all of his risk onto the distributor, the dealer and ultimately onto you, the model railroader.

What happens if a manufacturer takes deposits and then goes out of business? You lose your money, that’s what.

At Dallas Model Works, we believe that the customer’s money belongs in the customer’s pocket until the product ships.

That said, we have been in direct contact with Rapido and can still fill your order for The Canadian.

However, that does mean we will need an immediate deposit of 25% ($321.50 USD) to keep your order open.

Please note that is deposit is non-refundable. Even if you cancel your order, your deposit will not be refunded. This is simply because we will not have your money; Rapido will have it.

According to Rapido, The Canadian is supposed to go into production shortly after 26 August and be delivered sometime next year. I stress again that we cannot guarantee when Rapido will actually deliver the product; only that we will ship to you as soon as we receive it.

If you wish to keep your order open and make the deposit, please respond in the affirmative by no later than 1 August 2011.

Your deposit will be taken then. If you do not respond, your order will be cancelled.

You may review your order here.


I apologize for this requirement, but there you have it. We at least wanted to be able to give you the chance to keep your order open.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Are you serious, like I'm willing to bet on a NON-REFUNDABLE $320 that Rapido will actually ship this quality product to me, by when...., who knows?

You have got to be joking, apparently Walthers agrees with me.