Seriously, what is Rapido thinking

[Murphy Siding]

    Guys-  I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread.  It has reached a point where everyone has had a chance to speak their mind, and the last page or two has consisted mostly of going ' round in circles and making snarky comments.

     I'd like to remind everybody that we ALL need to keep it civil.  Some posters on this thread seem to have forgotten that.  Once the name-calling, snide remarks, and snarky replies start, it's hard for anyone to keep a thread on track and on the up and up.

     We dont come to these forums to have petty, little hissing matches.  We come here because of our common bond of the love of trains, be they 1:1 or scale model.  That being said, let's see if we can work on our civility towards others.

-Norris   user/moderator

[Colorado_Mac]

Edit: Erased my earlier comment because it was pretty snarky...

REAL comment:

Man, I can't look away from this board for a minute.

1. i like Rapido. Bought a car for a friend and both she and i were impressed.

2. I've started and run a couple of small businesses that needed investment.

3. Jason (and the other Rapido guy who's name I forget) - basically you are asking for investment in your company.  This is a time-honored and popular thing to do, but in this case you are doing two things that irk a lot of people.  First, holding their investment (part of the train) hostage, and second, up-ending the way things are done in a hobby that is very set in it's ways.  Then, in a way, your posts here point out what a risk this investment is. I think you should have sold shares with a potential increase in return to raise capital rather than base it on the Canadian.

4.  I don't know jack about the model railroad industry, so the above may be cr*p.

5. I won't buy the train because only about half of it would fit on my switching layout, but I do think it looks to be a quality product, IF things don't go badly.

Good luck to you, but I really wish you hadn't set this potentially dangerous precedent.

[richhotrain]

Jimmydieselfan

You know that this thread is ready for lock down when this character shows up.

 

[blownout cylinder]

Fiiiinnnffffft....

 

[BATMAN]

I'll see your silly cat and raise you to a best friends pic.

 

 

                                                           Brent

[BATMAN]

Sheriff John must be busy thinking up tomorrows topic.

Everyone seems to be sleeping it off now.

 

            Brent

[blownout cylinder]

I was actually going to start posting silly cat pix here....

[selector]

Oh, that "...left the building." 

Crandell

[CTValleyRR]

selector

I am no longer a moderator as of 07 July.

Crandell

That's what I meant!  And funnily enough, you must have been posting your reply after I hit the "reply" button...

[ghonz711]

2 things...

One, I tend to read more than I post, but when I do I try forget about the Cap Lock button for a little while and i never bold-face what I write.  Internet etiquette considers that shouting.

Also, I try to re-read my posts before I submit them to make sure I'm not sounding snotty.

Two, and more in line with the topic at hand, I think most people are forgetting how often BLI, PCM and other manufacturers have had to cancel production runs due to low pre-orders.  I urge everyone who doesn't think so to check http://www.broadway-limited.com/paragon2atsfmodernized2-10-2.aspx and scroll down to take a look at the a) lack of delivery date and b) a request to "Order from your dealer today!"

In other words - Pre-order, or else we aren't producing.

Just my humble opinion...

I just hope that in the future, threads like this wont start rolling, and keep rolling, over everyone's toes.

And just to add, the only reason why I won't be purchasing the Canadian is because I have university tuition to pay for.  Hey if production doesn't start for another 4 years I might be out of school long enough to afford it

- Matt

[Jimmydieselfan]

[selector]

I am no longer a moderator as of 07 July.

Crandell

[CTValleyRR]

don7

Why has this thread not been locked. Discussion is simply repeating itself. This post must be the record for unfounded assumptions.

Mediators, where are you?

Crandall has left the building!

[selector]

tatans

The big mystery @ the "Canadian' is the massive interest in this train from the U.S.  What is the interest in this foreign train?    Nice train, I've been lucky to ride it a few times and the greed of the C.P.R. not to continue passenger service to Canada when they were given untold vast amounts of land in promise of passenger service,  we want our land back.

I am sorry, but this is almost off topic, and just a little myopic.  It certainly has little association with history.  The CPR was the only railroad willing to tackle an immense railroad, coast-to-coast, that the government of the day couldn't pay for, and of course neither could the fledgling CPR.  So, they were given 20 miles on either side of the ROW in perpetuity in lieu so that with that substantial asset they could borrow the money to make what is now tthe trans-continental railroad.  That land was payment.

It's still off topic.

Crandell

[galaxy]

Boy.

Hmm.

It seems to me that this thread WOULD DIE OUT if TA462 and blownout cylinder would "quietly retreat from thier keyboards" and SHUT UP.

[blownout cylinder]

Motley

And why is it not on their website?, where people actually go to get information about the train? (like me)

Once again with this secrete society that only you fellas belong to.

Yes...there was a deep dark conspiracy to keep you in the dark....

Your just mad that you missed the part where they said this..oh..and BTW...there seems to be a lot more people who knew this as well..they must all be a part of this deep dark conspiracy as well....

[Motley]

And why is it not on their website?, where people actually go to get information about the train? (like me)

Once again with this secrete society that only you fellas belong to.

[blownout cylinder]

I will personally be taking these pre-production samples of The Canadian on a cross-Canada tour (by train, of course!) from Halifax to Vancouver in late spring/early summer 2011. Only after everyone has seen the actual model will we close the order desk for The Canadian and take deposits from dealers.

Obviously since they were taking deposits from dealers who do you think the dealers are going to go to?

Oh...BTW...taken from the timeline subsection...only took me about 2 minutes to find it...

[don7]

Why has this thread not been locked. Discussion is simply repeating itself. This post must be the record for unfounded assumptions.

Mediators, where are you?

[Motley]

blownout cylinder

Let me quote from the September 6, 2010 Telegraph newsletter (available on line at http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph27.html "Only after everyone has seen the actual model will we close the order desk for The Canadian and take deposits from dealers." Two things to note here. First, the date of the mention of deposits - September, 2010 - not 6 weeks ago as others have claimed. Second, the statement that we would show actual models before requiring firm deposits. For anybody who has been following along, Jason just spent the last month or more touring dealers in Canada with the samples and Dan and I had them at the National Train Show in Sacramento

Just wanted to make this a little plainer...September 2010...NOT 6 weeks ago.

What? I went and read that entire telegraph, and NO WHERE does it state this? Is it written in clear type?

[tatans]

andrechapelon

tatans:

The big mystery @ the "Canadian' is the massive interest in this train from the U.S.  What is the interest in this foreign train?    Nice train, I've been lucky to ride it a few times and the greed of the C.P.R. not to continue passenger service to Canada when they were given untold vast amounts of land in promise of passenger service,  we want our land back.

 

Service "TO" Canada???? The route of the "Canadian" was entirely WITHIN Canada.

Canadian rail passenger service was taken over by Via some years ago, much as US passenger service was taken over by Amtrak, so what's the big deal? Should the UP return land because it no longer runs the "City of <fill in name>", not to mention MP, Katy, WP, and SP trains.

Andre

Sorry---Service IN Canada--- And "yes''  Railways that were given massive tracts of land ( and  the mineral rights) for free and were obligated to provide passenger service and did not fulfill their obligations should give it back,, they let passenger train equipment  deteriorate then pleaded poor boy to the Governments to let them disband rail travel, (strange, now people are thinking train travel isn't such a bad idea) I wonder if railway companies think the same?

Try and get on a passenger train on the prairies if you live south of the C.N.R. lines, no  passenger rail service on C.P.R. lines except the millionaire line to the Rockies.

[wjstix]

Motley

And once again, you guys keep saying it was clearly communicated with people a long time ago? Really? Who exaclty, is this a secret society in Canada? Why is this information not even on their website? Why do I have to place an order, and then find out about the deposit after the fact?

I may be wrong, but I think the need for the deposit was mentioned in the Rapido ads in Canadian Railway Modeller when it was first announced??

FWIW, if you shop around you might be able to get Intermountain FP's and a set of Con-Cor 85' fluted-side passenger cars in Canadian Pacific, CP Rail, or VIA lettering (including the Canadian's somewhat unusual  vistadome-observation car), for about what you'd have to pay Rapido for the downpayment for their train....certainly not the quality of Rapido but perhaps "good enough" for many folks. You'd have to add interiors but that's part of the "fun" of model railroading (isn't it?)

[blownout cylinder]

Actually the question should be asked why some dealers...Walthers(?)..felt the need to throw that clanger into the machinery to begin with....

[blownout cylinder]

Let me quote from the September 6, 2010 Telegraph newsletter (available on line at http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph27.html "Only after everyone has seen the actual model will we close the order desk for The Canadian and take deposits from dealers." Two things to note here. First, the date of the mention of deposits - September, 2010 - not 6 weeks ago as others have claimed. Second, the statement that we would show actual models before requiring firm deposits. For anybody who has been following along, Jason just spent the last month or more touring dealers in Canada with the samples and Dan and I had them at the National Train Show in Sacramento

Just wanted to make this a little plainer...September 2010...NOT 6 weeks ago.

[Motley]

I think it's time the admin closes this thread please.

[Rapido]

Hi all,

It's been very interesting reading everyone's opinions on this subject.  I'm not going to reply to all of the posts, but I think Brent's question warrants a reply to put things in perspective.

BATMAN

Rapido guys. Any numbers on how many units are expected to be sold in Canada vs: elsewhere?

Based on our current orders for the train and based on what I have been told by our US distributors, the projected split is 92% Canadian orders and 8% rest of the world.  

Best regards,

Jason

[Caso.Sub]

I thought I would weigh in on this thread being a fellow Canuck and Rapido purchaser.

Rapido is trying to produce a once in  a lifetime model, probably more challenging in sales than the Turbo( due to the ability to tap into US sales). So I give them props for this, no doubt a tough task. There is other Canadian projects which will never see the light of day, even some smaller US projects.

Jason noted, they are a small company, just 3 staff, with an offshore factory in China. Most companies of this size would be considered a mom and pop shop in most business sectors, retail, service or other.

So Rapido is requesting 25% deposist for each pre-order. So we will assume $375 per units. So on the need 2,000 piece run that equates to $750k. A fairly large amount of money. So as people have noted and pictures on the net indicate, the tooling is down or close (less minor revisions). So this money  is not being used for R&D or toolling, but simply just a line of credit financed interest free for Rapido to buy materials, and potentially labour based on the cost of goods manfactured margin of selling price 25% of the list.

So in theory all deposists would be financing the project and allowing additional finances to meet expenses.

As for the practice of the deposists. Some Canadian hobby shops which are very reputable take deposists, some have credit cards on file, again that the LHS practices.

This deposist is not going to the dealer but Rapido. So here is where the tricky part begins. As Rapido is most likely an Incorporated business, they have little to no legal liability to creditors, banks and even consumers who place deposists. So in theory if Rapido becomes insolvent, your deposist would not be refunded. Also as your not a preimer creditor, your claim would be close to last. Banks, governments, loans and personal loans would supercede your deposist. I have seen it happen for first hand to a older client of mine who had deposists on a production of products, only to learn from the Bankruptcy in Trustee that her deposist was lost, as the company had more liabilities than assets, as would not considered a secure creditor on the list. Since then all clients have been advised to have legal letter to protect their deposist, in some cases in a trust account.

To answer the main topic, end of the day its upto the modeller to place the deposist in good faith, and hope to recieve product and a reasonable delivery date.

Frankly, I have moderate interest in a Canadian, the more current version. However I do not support deposists to a company ( due to noted client issue). I wish everyone luck, hopefully it will not end up like the Northern. And if anyone thinks I am a Rapido basher I am not. I have close to 8 cabooses, a few ONR cars and all the LRC cars.

Regards,

CASO

[blownout cylinder]

RapidoBill

I've been following this with... some interest. Jason has already cleared up a couple of issues, but I want to address one more. There are several posts that go on about "What if they don't make it?" This, of course, is a legitimate concern from anybody who has not been following the development of this train for any period of time. I could of course mention that I have two years' worth of pay checks to show for the company's commitment to the design process and production requirements, but I doubt that that would convince anybody. So...

Let me quote from the September 6, 2010 Telegraph newsletter (available on line at http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph27.html "Only after everyone has seen the actual model will we close the order desk for The Canadian and take deposits from dealers." Two things to note here. First, the date of the mention of deposits - September, 2010 - not 6 weeks ago as others have claimed. Second, the statement that we would show actual models before requiring firm deposits. For anybody who has been following along, Jason just spent the last month or more touring dealers in Canada with the samples and Dan and I had them at the National Train Show in Sacramento.

So, what can we all take away from this? First, the notion of our asking for deposits is not a new announcment. Second, we have invested a ton (tonne for those north of the border) of cash already in this project which is evidenced by having complete samples of all cars and locomotives that are complete to a point that we are willing to show them publically. Which means, in a nutshell, that we WILL be producing the train. We have invested this much into the train already that it woud make NO sense NOT to make it. We don't need that many expensive paperweights around our offices.

Finally, to the perceived issue of quality on the samples. These samples were hand decorated and assembled at our factory at the end of what was a very long three week visit there by Jason and myself. See http://www.rapidotrains.com/telegraph30.html and http://www.rapidotrains.com/tt_13.html. At the time of the NMRA show they already had several thousand miles of travel on them. Given these factors (hand assembly and travel and display damage), it should be entirley understandable that they show a few imperfections. This, of course, is the danger of showing pre-production samples. We will let the quality of the rest of our recent releases speak for what can be expected.

As I told a friend on e-mail the other night, we won't force you to buy the train, and in order to get it to market we can't change the terms. It is up to you (each) to decide whether it is worth the investment.

Bill Schneider
Product Design
Rapido Trains

From page 2 of this ridiculous thread...try to READ the post....

[blownout cylinder]

Motley

What's my problem? (You are obviously talking to me, because I started this crazy thread.)

My problem is, I was interested in the train, and was looking forward to getting it. But then I was notified that I had to pay a deposit by next week.

And once again, you guys keep saying it was clearly communicated with people a long time ago? Really? Who exaclty, is this a secret society in Canada? Why is this information not even on their website? Why do I have to place an order, and then find out about the deposit after the fact?

 I just noticed that you already did..