A few simple thoughs my daddy taught me:
There are things in this life that if you must ask "how much", then you can't aford them - on that list:
Boats, fancy, old or fast cars, swimming pools, houses bigger than you need, pets, hobbies like model trains.
For most of us, it is true in this life that you can have ANYTHING you want with some hard work - but no matter how hard you work or how lucky you are, it is unlikely that you will have EVERYTHING you want - so it is likely a good idea to figure out early what you REALLY want.
What you really want - that one amazes me with people who buy stuff, own it a while and then sell it to buy the next thing they don't really want.
When it comes to trains, I know what I really want and have been steadily working toward the same goals for 35 years now - Rome was not built in a day - and the journey is as much fun as the destination.
Sheldon
My next project is building the wife the dollhouse she always wanted. I stopped by the local dollhouse emporium today to scout for accouterments. single 1"=1' china cabinet, that doesn't even have any traction effort, can set you back more than many of today's locos. I 'spect I'll be scratchbuildin' a lot.
John - W Jackson County GA
Modeling Milwaukee Road up to the 60's
Aikidomaster Just my 2 cents worth. What is your opinion or ideas on the subject??
Just my 2 cents worth. What is your opinion or ideas on the subject??
That this topic comes at least 3 times a year on the forum like clockwork.
Bottom line: MRRing is as expensive as you want it to be. There are cost-cutting measures you can find so you don't end up paying full MSRP. Scratch-building is also a great way to save $$$ and hone your modeling skills at the same time.
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
tstage Aikidomaster: Just my 2 cents worth. What is your opinion or ideas on the subject?? That this topic comes at least 3 times a year on the forum like clockwork. Tom
Aikidomaster: Just my 2 cents worth. What is your opinion or ideas on the subject??
Yeah, another bored modeler. Back to model railroading. Got to much to do on too many items.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I had some more time to think about it today, here is my final .
There are many more expensive hobbies out there (try crashing a $2000 model airplane) and in a way, it is good that mfr's products aren't inexpensive. It shows that they are employing good technology, high quality materials and generally taking pride in their work. Low prices=Crappy products. And be glad that discount websites (trainworldonline is my fav.) exist. They can save you at least a good 15% or more.
I go back on what I said earlier. Happy modeling!
Acela
The timbers beneath the rails are not the only ties that bind on the railroad. --Robert S. McGonigal
Acela026 I had some more time to think about it today, here is my final . There are many more expensive hobbies out there (try crashing a $2000 model airplane) and in a way, it is good that mfr's products aren't inexpensive. It shows that they are employing good technology, high quality materials and generally taking pride in their work. Low prices=Crappy products. And be glad that discount websites (trainworldonline is my fav.) exist. They can save you at least a good 15% or more. I go back on what I said earlier. Happy modeling! Acela
12 feet Su27 with Turbines in the Tarmac, as a friend of mine experienced set him back a cool 30 000 bucks!!! You can also build cheap models that you can crash without to much expense......
This is a factor in ALL hobbies, it can be as expensive or cheap as YOU decide it to be!
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
My Railroad
My Youtube:
Graff´s channel
It can be expensive. Then again there is something in this hobby for just about any sized budget. I now have the layout of my dreams, but in all fairness, I had just as much fun years back scratch building my first structure and constructing an Ambroid box car kit complete with glue, couplers, and trucks for just a few bucks.
This hobby is about imagination. There ain't nothin' wrong with purchasing a $35 RTR freight car and most of us do, but it really does not require much imagination to unbox the car and place it on the rails. Scratch building or kit building a similar car does require imagination, but the expenditures are only a fraction of the RTR car and the enjoyment level (at least for me) is considerably higher. Mostly there is the pride and feeling of accomplishement......That don't cost much!
Skill level??? Horse pucky!!! I have seen over the years many who have discovered skills and talents they had no idea existed until they entered this hobby. Co- running a large model train show for the last 30 years.....I have seen much of the above and in spades.
HZ
tomikawaTT IF: Your bank has foreclosed on your mortgage and you are now living in your car. Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on a shoestring)
IF:
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - on a shoestring)
I see you are an avid reader of the "Elliots Trackside Diner" forum .
MRR is dirt cheap! Transportation cost are minimal. Maybe the occasional trip to the train store or cost of going to the club.
In 2010 the cost of driving a 2010 Dodge Caravan was about $.65 a KM. There are not many hobbies that let you off with little or no driving.
I use to fly R/C planes and what I spent on transportation to the airfield alone, was way more than I spend on trains, and I pretty much spend what I want.
Excuse me while embark on that 50 foot trek to the train room. Oh the wear and tear on my socks.
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
It's only too expensive if it causes you to let the kids go hungry, not pay the heating bill, not pay the mortgage, etc.
You can do this hobby in a low cost way. See these sites for some ideas
http://carendt.us/index.html
http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/
I've noticed that Athearn and Roundhouse kits for under $10 at train shows this year. I've seen Roundhouse and Bowser kits in antique stores for under $10.
Atlas still makes a station, lumberyard, signal tower, and water tower kit for under $20 MSRP each.
Some Athearn diesels are discounted under $50.
Some track and a few switches and you're in business - you can even start on a kitchen table.
Enjoy
Paul
Double post, sorry.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
We didn't have the luxury of plaster cloth when I started building my layouts, I used strips of newspaper or papertowels (the brown kinds) anjd plaster of paris, it probably cost me less than one roll of plaster cloth to do a whole layout (4x8 back then). As others have said, the key is imagination and being open to learning new ideas and skills to accomplish what the lack of money can't. I have yet to buy a rtr anything.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
It's not the hobby, it's our wishes which are too expensive. When we were married we decided for some pocket money for us. Our mark was the budget from a smoker. Well, now I have still about $70 per month. I guess cigarettes are more expensive.
The other hobby question is time. How much time do you sit in front of the tv? I'm in the basement.
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
Sure, it can be easy to make plaster cloth out of newspaper and plaster paris or scratchbuild a freight car instead of buying an RTR, but not everything can be built from scratch.
I just fried a decoder that cost me $30, and it is going to cost me another $30 to replace it. Who has the skills to build a decoder from scratch?
Alton Junction
TA462 I don't know why this topic keeps coming up all the time. Hobbies are a luxury and if MRing is to expensive then pick a new hobby. I don't understand why people try to live beyond their means and then complain about it.
I don't know why this topic keeps coming up all the time. Hobbies are a luxury and if MRing is to expensive then pick a new hobby.
I don't understand why people try to live beyond their means and then complain about it.
Is that really what the OP said? The notion of people living beyond their means by spending too much on hobbies somehow got thrown in the mix along the way.
I believe that the OP's original point was that the growing cost of the hobby makes it difficult for youngsters who are on a limited budget or allowance.
The topic keeps coming up because of "sticker shock" every time you set out to make a purchase.
Granted, sticker shock is relative.
TA462 If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period.
If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period.
That simply is not true. if a 13 year old cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, that kid is still entitled to be part of our hobby. Maybe the kid cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, but that shouldn't stop him from getting into the hobby at the entry level where boxcars are a lot less expensive than $30 and locomotives are a lot less expensive than $200.
[quote user="TA462"]
If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period. Now if the same kid would go out and cut grass or shovel snow or what ever else to earn some cash then he has earned the right. There are things the same kid could do to do the hobby on the cheap but the kid is still going to fantasize about that 200 dollar loco that he can't afford.
Tell him to shop on Ebay. That's were I go.
Justin
TA462 richhotrain: TA462: If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period. That simply is not true. if a 13 year old cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, that kid is still entitled to be part of our hobby. Maybe the kid cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, but that shouldn't stop him from getting into the hobby at the entry level where boxcars are a lot less expensive than $30 and locomotives are a lot less expensive than $200. Rich UMMM, didn't I say that? "There are things the same kid could do to do the hobby on the cheap but the kid is still going to fantasize about that 200 dollar loco that he can't afford." The thing with hobbies is that you want to strive to be the best and own the best equipment. It doesn't matter if it's MRing or mountain biking or even playing baseball. You really think a 20 dollar plastic baseball glove would cut it? LOLOLOL.
richhotrain: TA462: If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period. That simply is not true. if a 13 year old cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, that kid is still entitled to be part of our hobby. Maybe the kid cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, but that shouldn't stop him from getting into the hobby at the entry level where boxcars are a lot less expensive than $30 and locomotives are a lot less expensive than $200. Rich
TA462: If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period.
UMMM, didn't I say that? "There are things the same kid could do to do the hobby on the cheap but the kid is still going to fantasize about that 200 dollar loco that he can't afford." The thing with hobbies is that you want to strive to be the best and own the best equipment. It doesn't matter if it's MRing or mountain biking or even playing baseball. You really think a 20 dollar plastic baseball glove would cut it? LOLOLOL.
No, you said, "then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period".
richhotrain TA462: If a 13 year old kid can't afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive then the kid can't afford to be in the hobby, period. That simply is not true. if a 13 year old cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, that kid is still entitled to be part of our hobby. Maybe the kid cannot afford a 30 dollar boxcar or a 200 dollar locomotive, but that shouldn't stop him from getting into the hobby at the entry level where boxcars are a lot less expensive than $30 and locomotives are a lot less expensive than $200. Rich
And here is the philosophical difference that is root of all these price discussions.
Where I come from you are only "entitled" to what you can earn and what you can defend. As for a 13 year old - they may me "entitled" to a reasonable upbringing, they are not "entitled" to model trains - that, would be for their parents to decide - and provide.
OR
Allow for and provide reasonable means for them to EARN some model trains.
"Entitled" - that's what is wrong with the whole world today - too many people think they are "entitled" to something - at someone elses expense.
Russell,
Where were those train shows located?? Would love to go sometime.
Craig North Carolina
I would agree with the general philosophy that there can be cost barriers to entering any hobby (skiing, old car restoration, yachting, stamp collecting, you name it). About the only one that doesn't is sitting on your porch watching the world go by (although you could argue that this requires you to purchase a house and a chair....).
I wouldn't go so far as to say "too" expensive. With everything else, it's a matter of balance. If you decide on Monday that you need a basement-sized empire, fully sceniced, with a scale replica of downtown Chicago and a fleet of 100 brass locos and 2000 pieces of rolling stock, and you want it up and running by Saturday, then, yeah, you'd better be prepared to shell out some serious money.
On the other hand, if you're prepared to adopt a saving plan and are prepared to accept the fact that you can't have everything you want today, then it's not a wallet busting hobby. I can only set aside $50 a month for my hobby, but I have the discipline to save until I can afford what I really want, or compromise on price and quality and get something different today.
OK, our hypothetical 13 yr old with no job (although I had a paper route at that age -- what is the world coming to) may not be able to set aside $50 a month. My 8 yr old gets $10 a month for allowance, and he's learning to save it until he can afford what he really wants.
I also reject the argument that it is necessary to have your own layout to "participate" in the hobby. I remember model rocketry as a boy -- I desperately wanted to participate, and I did so by helping and watching some of the older kids in my neighborhood until I could afford my own set-up.
It's the "instant gratification" impulse that causes the problem, not the cost of the hobby.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Fred,
I agree with all that you said. The articles in Model Railroader with respect to new layouts does not explain How to run the railroad! No one explains how to couple and uncouple cars (unless they show you that "stick thing"). Those same articles should help one trouble shoot such points as engine performance, cleaning, etc!!
Most of us who have been in the hobby for awhile have worked our way threw these problems ourselves. But, for beginners, I see it as a potential turn off. NOTHING worse than having a model railroad (no matter what size) and the thing WON'T RUN!! Good way to loose people's interest!!
Brakie,
I do not pay MSRP. I am lucky, my local hobby shop stocks a lot of equipment. ALL of it is priced at 15% below MSRP. How many hobby stores do that? This train store is "The Little Choo Choo in Spencer, NC. They have been in business for more than 25 years. I WANT to support my local hobby shop to help keep them in business. But when I lived in Roanoke, VA, "The Railyard" was strictly 100% MSRP. I would by things that were hard to order, but by in large, I would order my items from "discount" stores found in Model Railroader. The beginners do not have all of this experience at shopping and may not take the time to do it before they quit the hobby.
Aikidomaster Russell, Where were those train shows located?? Would love to go sometime.
Russell
Trainobsessed,
I hope that you stay with the hobby. There is a lot of interesting skills to learn. We ALL want to have a model railroad that looks like those seen in the magazines. That is the goal for a lot of us. But, it is something to strive for, it may or may not be achieveable, but THE TRYING is what makes it fun!! I would love to see my layout in Model Railroader some day, but if not (and I LIKE my layout) then who cares? Keep with it. The hobby can last you a life time.
Swampsavage,
Good luck with building the dollhouse. I built one about 15 years ago for my daughter. It took me about 700 hours to build the structure alone!! I scratchbulit several items and built the furniture from kits (another 200 hours or so). It came out great!! Our daughter is grown and we still have the dollhouse. She is going to keep it "forever". It was worth the time but I did not think that it would take that long to build. Again, good luck.
The beginners do not have all of this experience at shopping and may not take the time to do it before they quit the hobby.
----------------------------------
And that's the scary part unless they already know about Internet hobby shops..
That's one reason I mention there are cheaper ways whenever these cost of hobby discussions come up...
Some may recall I use to rant and rave about the "robber baron prices" untill I realize the best approach was to "fight fire with fire" and point out the cheaper ways of combating the ever increasing cost of the hobby.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Howard,
I have found that scratchbuilding is both fun and less expensive. It is nice to have structures on the layout that no one else has. It is also the answer to having the structure that "you need" but there are no kits that even come close to what you are building. I am a long time admirer of your work. I have seen it through your book and Allen Keller's 3 Great Model Railroad videos. When are you going to write that next book?
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Where I come from you are only "entitled" to what you can earn and what you can defend. As for a 13 year old - they may me "entitled" to a reasonable upbringing, they are not "entitled" to model trains - that, would be for their parents to decide - and provide. OR Allow for and provide reasonable means for them to EARN some model trains. "Entitled" - that's what is wrong with the whole world today - too many people think they are "entitled" to something - at someone elses expense.
Sheldon,
I think you hit a good vein on the entitlement issue. When I was a kid and getting into trains about 13 years ago I was introduced in typical fashion by my parents with a train set one birthday. At that age I loved the trips to the hobby shop a couple times a year on special occasions when they would get me a blue box car. Once I got to be 11 or 12 years old that 'gravy train' so to speak stopped. I was old enough to work for my parents around the house and earn money, which I could spend or save how I pleased, or work for neighbors doing odd jobs and taking care of their yards while they were away. Simply due to my parents ability to finance me buying models I did not feel entitled to more and more trains. At age 15 I had a real summer job and was saving up my money for some years. I'm 20, almost 21 now and a senior in college. When I go to the train shop I'm far and away the youngest customer, save the dads with their toddlers (but their kids don't count as they aren't actually buying anything). Unless a model is something I received as a gift at Christmas, it was paid for myself through one job or another.
Sure, our hobby is not inexpensive, I'm sure I've spent a couple thousand dollars on trains and my layout since 2007 or so. Over those years since I have been buying things for myself I have accumulated a nice collection of rolling stock and locomotives to use on my layout. If I had some more direction when I started to seriously approach layout building I probably would have saved some more money by buying a more limited scope of models, but hey, they're trains and I like them all the same.
Young people can get into model trains but in order for the involvement to be meaningful it requires a sense of having earned something, not being entitled to it. I think other factors are more likely to keep young folks away from model railroading like physical space to build a layout, something I have had to think about as I have a not so portable layout in my parents' garage. I often ask myself if it is worthwhile to invest more in my layout when I'll be moving out soonish (plus I'm only home 3 months of the year). Thus I can see why my friends and I often pursued other hobbies.
Cahrn