Why would someone ship an airplane by flatcar?

[Hamltnblue]

I guess it would also be the same reason they have shark carrying cars

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/81-99007

 

[DSchmitt]

BF&D

Lots of semi plausible answers - but for me those flatcar airplane loads are in a league with Official US Army Missile Launcher Car and other such toy trains stuff.

Missile Launch car the real thing

http://www.themilitarystandard.com/missile/peacekeeper/railcar.php

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peacekeeper_Rail_Garrison_Car

An earlier proposal

http://books.google.com/books?id=cyYDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=rocket+launch+railroad+car&source=bl&ots=pBaYpOPsor&sig=mgKJjp-it8IyUJHnQWhKP2BvFuc&hl=en&ei=oM-DTe2qM4W-sAOQ-f3wAQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=rocket%20launch%20railroad%20car&f=false

[Forty Niner]

Hamltnblue

I guess it would also be the same reason they have shark carrying cars

http://www.mthtrains.com/content/81-99007

 

They have "sharks" that carry cars????? Talk about exploitation!!!!!!!! I wonder if they also carry "grudges"........;-)

Mark

WGAS

 

[Forty Niner]

I'm not familiar with other states but here in Missouri at the main shops of the National Guard they had a rail line that ran into it and they received almost all of their equipment by "rail", including helicopters for the Air Guard across the Missouri River at the airport.

They built new shops about 15-20 years ago outside of town but it also has a rail siding run into it and I would imagine that they are still receiving everything by rail, thankfully for the rest of us.

So although that Athearn car may be as realistic as the old Giraffe car it's premise may be sound as I'm sure that more than one "new" small aircraft was delivered by rail back years ago and may still be for all I know, really just never gave it much thought until now although I would think that any "new" aircraft would be "crated" not only to protect the load but also for ease of handling.

The Interstate Highway System brought about a lot of changes, not all of them for the better. Maybe the high cost of fuel will put a large percentage of it back on the rails where it belongs.

Mark

WGAS

[Lateral-G]

TA462

The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy.   It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again.

sayyyy whaaaat?

 

You're joking, right?

 

[buoyboy]

The reason that Athearn introduced this car is that in the late 1950's for a year or two, Lionel's HO line was made by Athearn. Lionel, which was just going into their 'missle launcher' phase, came out with a flatcar with an airplane on it in O gauge, along with a flatcar with a cabin cruiser type boat. Apparently Lionel wanted these cars in their HO line and so had Athearn produce them, along with an "Auto-Loader" 50' flatcar and a Virginian rectifier electric (which used the 'GP-9' chassis).

It wasn't until about 1958 or '59 that Lionel began producing their own HO trains. I believe that some of the Lionel HO from the mid-'50's was also manufactured by Rivarossi and sold under the Lionel brand name.

[Flashwave]

buoyboy

The reason that Athearn introduced this car is that in the late 1950's for a year or two, Lionel's HO line was made by Athearn. Lionel, which was just going into their 'missle launcher' phase, came out with a flatcar with an airplane on it in O gauge, along with a flatcar with a cabin cruiser type boat. Apparently Lionel wanted these cars in their HO line and so had Athearn produce them, along with an "Auto-Loader" 50' flatcar and a Virginian rectifier electric (which used the 'GP-9' chassis).

It wasn't until about 1958 or '59 that Lionel began producing their own HO trains. I believe that some of the Lionel HO from the mid-'50's was also manufactured by Rivarossi and sold under the Lionel brand name.

That cabin cruiser is also a popular re-release for Athearn. From a marketing standpoint, you are buying two piees in one here,  not only the flatar, but those kids can also play with the plane as well. There will be a company on my layout who ships out those Cabin Cruisers (and other modeartley small yachts) by flatcar, as well as a few other things. One, their location in steep river valley makes Semi traffic nigh impossible.  

I understand the recertification part about making sure tey are put on orrectly, but what's the big deal about taking the wings OFF? Yeah, I know they didn't use a tab and slot, but I don't feel like riviting an HO model, and a removeable wing seems like a good idea to me. In fact, I may just have to model a short string of these things as a through train, going to some dealer somewhere.

[jwhitten]

 

>> Why would someone ship an airplane by flatcar?

 

For spite...

 

John

[jwhitten]

Railphotog

 

Forty Niner:

 

And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?

P.S. I don't text mail either........

 

 

I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here.   This has been around a long time, before texting.  BOHICA!

 

 

Yeah, RTFM !

(I suggest you don't look that one up :-)

 

John

[jwhitten]

steemtrayn

 

Packers#1:

 

 

Forty Niner:

And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?

 

 

To answer that would require breaking forum rules of no swearing. However, ROFLOL means rolling on the floor laughing out loud. Not much of a jump.

 

 

Aww, go ahead, tell him. This would be an ideal time to test the limits of the new moderator.

DILLIGAF?

 

Oh, I'm already quite familiar with the phrase!

 

John

[Forty Niner]

jwhitten

Railphotog:

 

Forty Niner:

 

And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?

P.S. I don't text mail either........

 

 

I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here.   This has been around a long time, before texting.  BOHICA!

 

 

 

Yeah, RTFM !

(I suggest you don't look that one up :-)

 

John

I read the first three manuals but I just ran out of time before I could "Read The Fourth Manual"!!!

Mark ;-]

WGAS

[jwhitten]

Forty Niner

 

jwhitten:

 

 

Railphotog:

 

Forty Niner:

 

And having spent many years in the military I understand the love of abbreviations but what the heck is "ROFLMAO"?

P.S. I don't text mail either........

 

 

I suggest Googling the text, as forum censors might take offence if what it means was spelled out here.   This has been around a long time, before texting.  BOHICA!

 

 

 

 

Yeah, RTFM !

(I suggest you don't look that one up :-)

 

John

 

 

I read the first three manuals but I just ran out of time before I could "Read The Fourth Manual"!!!

Mark ;-]

WGAS

 

Nicely done!

 

John

[PennCentral99]

jwhitten

 

For spite...

 

John

To create a thread in a forum and see how many pages it goes.......

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

TA462

Lateral-G:

TA462:

The only reason a plane would be shipped by rail is because it isn't air worthy.   It would cost to much to have a planes wings removed and then reattached and the recertified to fly again.

 

sayyyy whaaaat?

 

You're joking, right?

 

 

Nope.   It would be cheaper to fly a plane to it's final destination then it would be to ship it by train.   Think about it, you would have to disassemble it so it would fit on a truck.  The truck would deliver it to the yard where it would be loaded onto a flat car then loaded back onto a truck to be delivered to its final destination.   That's a lot of people involved just to move a plane from point A to point B.  It's cheaper to fly it.   Once it was put back together it would have to be reinspected to make sure it was air worthy again.   What?  You think you can just bolt the wings back on and go for a ride?  LOL.

Well, maybe or maybe not.

It might depend on how far you are taking it and why.

I have not been able to find a railroad freight rate, either now or in 1960, to transport such a load from LA to New York, but based on the known info about the Beechcraft Bonanza 35, it would take one pilot, nearly three days to fly from LA to New York, stopping at least twice to refuel, layover, sleep.

The trip is roughly 3000 miles, the range of the Bonanza 1060 miles, fuel tank hold 80 gallons, around 250 galons for the trip. How much is aviation fuel? The plane has a top speed just over 200 mph, more likely a practical crusing speed (for max fuel mileage) of between 130 and 160.

The flight time would be three 6-8 hour "legs". I don't know what such a pilot would get paid, but it would likely include his return travel expenses. And now the plane has 18 or more additional hours on the engine.

Fuel, pilot, hotels, return air (or train) fare, ground fees at layovers, sounds like about $4,000 to $5,000 in todays money, maybe more.

AND, I admit, I have no idea about the other costs of disassembly, reassembly, etc, but I know a flat car load from LA to NY does not cost $3,000.

So there remains the big question - If I buy a new airplane, how do I get it? Is it only sold for "customer pickup" at the manufacturers air field? Do they have "authorized dealers"? Who might be doing the reassembly and certification?

And, what is the cost of a flat car load from LA to NY?

Sheldon

 

[fec153]

reads like our government in action.  

flip

 

[Lake]

fec153

reads like our government in action.  

flip

No, it does not.

This is not a "Bash the Government" forum. Nor a political forum.

Last I read it is a model train forum and a question about shipping an aircraft by train.

[jeffhergert]

I have a booklet titled, "I.C.C. Commodity Code Numbers in Alphabetical Order."  It was put out by the Rock Island around 1960, give or take a few years.  I'm sure other railroads also had similiar booklets for their use.

It's a listing of freight articles and their ICC commodity class code number.  In this booklet, 625 is used for Airplanes.  There are quite a few different listings.  One is for "Airplane fuselage with power" which I would take as being a small single engine aircraft.  Another is for "Airplane fuselage without power" which could be a small aircraft or part of a larger aircraft.  Then there are the other various listings for the parts of airplanes; wings, elevators, propellors, etc.  All are under commodity code number 625.

So, for whatever reason someone must have sent enough small airplanes to rate an ICC classification.  When it comes right down to it, I'm sure all the railroad would care about is that the check clears when payment is made.

Jeff        

[Lake]

Jeff,

Thanks for the information. This has been an interesting topic.

[g&gfan]

I know the plane isn't the same as on the Athearn flatcar, but DeHavilland used to ship crated airplanes from Toronto, ON to the ports on the east and west coasts of Canada during the 1950s.

In CN Lines V10 No. 2, Stan Svihla wrote an article covering this practice, complete with pictures from de Havilland/Bombardier. The planes mentioned were the Beaver and the Otter. One photo shows a crated Beaver destined for Mobil Oil in Tripoli, Libya. The crated Otter is labelled for Ideroes (sic), Norway..  I'm not sure that either plane would be able to make the flight overseas without special modifications. 

The plan was to crate the planes, ship them overseas to the nearest port, assemble them by company representatives and fly the planes to their destination. This was after the planes had been built, tested and disassembled at the factory.

[Flashwave]

HEY! GUESS WHAT I FOUND ON GOOGLE!

 

[quote user= "Caption"]Aircraft at the isolated Plant No. 1 had to be assembled during construction, taken apart, traansported to an airfield, reassembled, and test flown. Then they were either taken apart again and finally moved to the waiting customer or just flown to the customer[/quote] Source

 

[steinjr]

g&gfan

I know the plane isn't the same as on the Athearn flatcar, but DeHavilland used to ship crated airplanes from Toronto, ON to the ports on the east and west coasts of Canada during the 1950s.

In CN Lines V10 No. 2, Stan Svihla wrote an article covering this practice, complete with pictures from de Havilland/Bombardier. The planes mentioned were the Beaver and the Otter. One photo shows a crated Beaver destined for Mobil Oil in Tripoli, Libya. The crated Otter is labelled for Ideroes (sic), Norway..  I'm not sure that either plane would be able to make the flight overseas without special modifications. 

 Wideroes is Norway's third airline - "small and green between the clouds" has been used to describe both their airplanes (and sometimes how their passengers have been feeling).

 It could be a rather religious experience to land in strong side winds and sudden down drafts in small aircraft (like the DHC2 Beaver, the DHC3 Otter and later the DHC6 Twin Otter) on small municipal airports nestled between the mountains and the fjords along Norway's rather weatherbeaten coast. 

 Grin,
 Stein

 

[jwhitten]

 

Airplanes on trains:

 

Here's something you don't see every day...

 

 

John

[Mike Kieran]

I just figured that the planes can't fly without their wings, so we put them on a freight car.

[Owendubya]

In the post WW2 era I know that many of the former German V-1 and V-2 as well as Me 161,262 and others were crated and covered and sent by rail to a secure fascility for reassembly and flight testing.. some 1/72 models covered with tissuepaper and broken down would make an interesting train.

 

 

[Lake]

As has been stated by others, "There is a prototype for almost every thing".

It is amazing that some one will reply to a post as what the poster is stating is impossible and will never be or never has been. Then, bam, boom, some one finds an example of it in real life.

It makes model railroading much more enjoyable when this happens.

 

[tugboat95]

They do here in eastern NC.  A new aerospace plant just opened up (Kinston) and they ship fuselages by rail to Morehead City to ship overseas to France (Airbus).  I think they actually go to Ireland for assembly.  The first one shipped about 6 months ago.  They actually paid to have a major overpass as well as some power lines raised in the town I live in (New Bern) so they would clear.  Its a sight to see a plane going right through downtown in the middle of our historic district.  Thats a big hunk of metal very close to 200 (at least) year old buildings.

[B&O SteamDemon]

jwhitten

 

Airplanes on trains:

 

Here's something you don't see every day...

 

 

John

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

Ray

[Mike Kieran]

Hey John, boy UP really is taking over everything. Pretty soon they'll assimilate the Borgs.

[jwhitten]

B&O SteamDemon

 

jwhitten:

 

 

Airplanes on trains:

 

 

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

 

Ray

 

They're not my photos, just pics I found on the net. But they are from the Boeing plant in Washington state, near Seattle I think.

Here's a site that gives a lot more information about it: http://alongtherails.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-airplane-train/

 

john

[B&O SteamDemon]

jwhitten

B&O SteamDemon:

 

jwhitten:

 

 

Airplanes on trains:

 

 

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

 

Ray

 

 

They're not my photos, just pics I found on the net. But they are from the Boeing plant in Washington state, near Seattle I think.

Here's a site that gives a lot more information about it: http://alongtherails.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-airplane-train/

 

john

I was wondering, they looked like 737's that's why I asked. 

Ray