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Why would someone ship an airplane by flatcar?

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Posted by Trynn_Allen2 on Thursday, June 28, 2012 11:17 AM

jwhitten

 Mike Kieran:

Hey Poeet, couldn't they use giant slingshots?

 

 

Lawn darts anyone..???

Captain

John

Well it's no wonder how the Starfighter got it's nickname if that's how they were shipping them.

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Posted by tin can on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 6:12 PM

In the mid 80s five F-8 Crusader hulks were shipped from the Arizona airplane graveyards to the Vought aircraft plant in Grand Prairie, TX on flat cars.  The fuselages were shipped separately from the wings; all were well packed in wooden forms.  At Vought, they were remanufactured into a variant of the A7 which was to enter into a competition with the F16 for a new Air Force ground attack fighter (which Vought lost).  I have pictures of these on the flat cars, somewhere....

I'm guessing that the same procedure was used to transport F8s to Grand Prairire to create the numerous A7s that were built  in the 60's for the Navy and the Air Force for use in Vietnam.

Remember the tin can; the MKT's central Texas branch...
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Posted by tomikawaTT on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 3:20 PM

Why would someone ship an airplane by flatcar?  Because it's too difficult to unload one from a gondola with a forklift.

Of course, those 737 fuselage assemblies are taken off the car with overhead cranes.

Taking the wings off a small, general aviation aircraft usually involves disconnecting control and electric cables and fuel lines, then removing a couple of bolts.  Reassembly is well within the capabilities of an airframe mechanic, and the facility's chief mechanic/inspector can certify airworthiness with a stamp and signature on the appropriate form.  Paying a pilot, and eating up engine hours, would cost a lot more.

Chuck (Former USAF QC inspector modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)

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Posted by sakel on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 2:13 PM

Hey! Just noticed. Welcome to the forum Kim Zuters.Welcome

Samuel A. Kelly

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:52 PM

It's kinda like saying 'why do they ship automobiles by rail, when they could just drive them to where they're going?'.

If the planes could fly themselves, it would make sense. You'd have to hire a pilot to fly the plane to where it was to go, plus pay his expenses (hotel stays, meals, train or plane tickets back home) plus fuel for the plane to get there. If you sell a lot of planes, that's a lot of money with pilots constantly in transit.

It would pretty soon be clear I think that it would be easier and cheaper to just ship it by rail. Plus of course the manufacturer would have to take the loss if anything happened to a plane in transit, whereas if a plane was damaged on a train, the railroad would be liable.

 

Stix
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Posted by sakel on Wednesday, June 27, 2012 1:22 PM

papasmurf

Not unusual, as NASA had several shuttle components shipped via rail, which were just small enough to fit through all rail line tunnels. My 2 cents. TTFN....Old Tom aka papasmurf in NH

I know this because it derailed on a short line near my house.

Samuel A. Kelly

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Posted by Kim Zuters on Saturday, May 26, 2012 4:30 PM

Not true gang.

The De Havilland Beaver and Otters were both shipped by rail since their manufacture began in 1947 at the Downsview (Toronto) plant.  The reason, they didn't have the range to fly over oceans so were tested, disassembled to major components, crated, shipped by rail to pacific coast or Atlantic coast ports where they were shipped by vessel to foreign ports.  There is a great article in  CN Lines, Volume 10, #2 about the process.

Cheers,
Kim Zuters
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, Terra, Sol, . . .

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Posted by Allegheny2-6-6-6 on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:53 AM

Answer: because it wouldn't fit in a caboose?

I seriously doubt one owuld be able to name one thing that has not been shipped my train. Years a go I was in Arizona waiting at an intersection with a buddy on our motorcycles and a flatbed tractor trailer goes through the intersection we were at with the fuselage of a B-24 and a pair of wings strapped to it's side. Of course being some what of an aviation buff and having a sense of curiosity that has often gotten me in trouble from time to time my friend and I decided to follow it. So after a few miles the driver pulls in to a rest area and the two of us along with maybe 4 or 5 other overly curious followers walked up tot he guys truck to have a look see. He laughed and said this thing is like an ice cream truck for grown men. Every time I stop when i carry one of these a flock of guys come around. He told us he was headed to a rail yard as the plane was going to California to be restored.Why not drive it, who knows maybe it was cheaper by rail I don't really know but the driver told us this wasn't the first old plane he had taken to the rail yard.

Just my 2 cents worth, I spent the rest on trains. If you choked a Smurf what color would he turn?
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Posted by Mike Kieran on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:52 AM

There was a shortage of rubber bands for the props, but I heard that they're on their way. There maybe some kids with problems with their bracesWhistling

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Posted by BATMAN on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 10:28 AM

[quote user="Flashwave"]

HEY! GUESS WHAT I FOUND ON GOOGLE!

http://www.sandptnavsta.org/BOEING-IMAGES/Shipping-Plane.jpg

 

[quote user= "Caption"]Aircraft at the isolated Plant No. 1 had to be assembled during construction, taken apart, traansported to an airfield, reassembled, and test flown. Then they were either taken apart again and finally moved to the waiting customer or just flown to the customer[/quote] Source

 

[/quote]

Hey is that the new F-35 Raptor that the Canadian Air force is getting??? I did hear there were delays in shipping from the plant.Travel

 

                                                                         Brent

Brent

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Posted by jwhitten on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:40 AM

Mike Kieran

Hey Poeet, couldn't they use giant slingshots?

 

Lawn darts anyone..???

Captain

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by Mike Kieran on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 9:28 AM

Hey Poeet, couldn't they use giant slingshots?

__________________________________________________________________

Mike Kieran

Port Able Railway

I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.

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Posted by R. T. POTEET on Wednesday, March 23, 2011 1:15 AM

In '06 I encountered the carcass' of a Grumman TBF/TBM Avenger and a razorback Republic P-47 "Jug" being transported east to New Jersey aboard a trio of flatbeds. These were obviously lacking airworthyness certificates. 

From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet

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Posted by Gil Janus on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 8:03 PM

That's because they are. Just go to http://www.railpictures.net/ and search for Boeing 737 in the Keyword Search box. You will get back 26 pictures. They are made in the Boeing factory in Wichita, KS and are bound for the Boeing factory in Renton, WA. They will be assembled there.

 

Gil, known as Bill somedays ... Cool

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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 7:00 PM

jwhitten

 B&O SteamDemon:

 

 jwhitten:

 

 

Airplanes on trains:

http://alongtherails.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/airplane-10.jpg

 

 

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

 

Ray

 

 

They're not my photos, just pics I found on the net. But they are from the Boeing plant in Washington state, near Seattle I think.

Here's a site that gives a lot more information about it: http://alongtherails.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-airplane-train/

 

john

I was wondering, they looked like 737's that's why I asked. 

Ray

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Posted by jwhitten on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:41 PM

B&O SteamDemon

 

 jwhitten:

 

 

Airplanes on trains:

http://alongtherails.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/airplane-10.jpg

 

 

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

 

Ray

 

They're not my photos, just pics I found on the net. But they are from the Boeing plant in Washington state, near Seattle I think.

Here's a site that gives a lot more information about it: http://alongtherails.wordpress.com/2010/10/16/the-airplane-train/

 

john

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by Mike Kieran on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:24 PM

Hey John, boy UP really is taking over everything. Pretty soon they'll assimilate the Borgs.

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Mike Kieran

Port Able Railway

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Posted by B&O SteamDemon on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 5:00 PM

jwhitten

 

Airplanes on trains:

http://alongtherails.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/airplane-10.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2487/3854706338_c196ab201d.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4057/4707611985_cca41c55a0.jpg

 

Here's something you don't see every day...

http://aviationhumor.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/TrainPlane.gif

 

Smile, Wink & Grin Smile, Wink & Grin Smile, Wink & Grin

 

John

I was just curious where did you take the pictures of the passenger planes on railcars?  Do you know what manufacturer built them and where they were heading?

 

Ray

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Posted by tugboat95 on Tuesday, March 22, 2011 12:07 AM

They do here in eastern NC.  A new aerospace plant just opened up (Kinston) and they ship fuselages by rail to Morehead City to ship overseas to France (Airbus).  I think they actually go to Ireland for assembly.  The first one shipped about 6 months ago.  They actually paid to have a major overpass as well as some power lines raised in the town I live in (New Bern) so they would clear.  Its a sight to see a plane going right through downtown in the middle of our historic district.  Thats a big hunk of metal very close to 200 (at least) year old buildings.

Now we're tugboatin!
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Posted by Lake on Monday, March 21, 2011 10:51 PM

As has been stated by others, "There is a prototype for almost every thing".

It is amazing that some one will reply to a post as what the poster is stating is impossible and will never be or never has been. Then, bam, boom, some one finds an example of it in real life.

It makes model railroading much more enjoyable when this happens.Geeked

 

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

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Posted by Owendubya on Monday, March 21, 2011 2:47 PM

In the post WW2 era I know that many of the former German V-1 and V-2 as well as Me 161,262 and others were crated and covered and sent by rail to a secure fascility for reassembly and flight testing.. some 1/72 models covered with tissuepaper and broken down would make an interesting train.

 

 

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Posted by Mike Kieran on Monday, March 21, 2011 9:56 AM

I just figured that the planes can't fly without their wings, so we put them on a freight car.

__________________________________________________________________

Mike Kieran

Port Able Railway

I just do what the majority of the voices in my head vote on.

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Posted by jwhitten on Monday, March 21, 2011 9:12 AM

 

Airplanes on trains:

 

Here's something you don't see every day...

 

Smile, Wink & Grin Smile, Wink & Grin Smile, Wink & Grin

 

John

Modeling the South Pennsylvania Railroad ("The Hilltop Route") in the late 50's
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Posted by steinjr on Monday, March 21, 2011 5:39 AM

g&gfan

I know the plane isn't the same as on the Athearn flatcar, but DeHavilland used to ship crated airplanes from Toronto, ON to the ports on the east and west coasts of Canada during the 1950s.

In CN Lines V10 No. 2, Stan Svihla wrote an article covering this practice, complete with pictures from de Havilland/Bombardier. The planes mentioned were the Beaver and the Otter. One photo shows a crated Beaver destined for Mobil Oil in Tripoli, Libya. The crated Otter is labelled for Ideroes (sic), Norway..  I'm not sure that either plane would be able to make the flight overseas without special modifications. 

 Wideroes is Norway's third airline - "small and green between the clouds" has been used to describe both their airplanes (and sometimes how their passengers have been feeling).

 It could be a rather religious experience to land in strong side winds and sudden down drafts in small aircraft (like the DHC2 Beaver, the DHC3 Otter and later the DHC6 Twin Otter) on small municipal airports nestled between the mountains and the fjords along Norway's rather weatherbeaten coast. 

 Grin,
 Stein

 

 

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Posted by Flashwave on Monday, March 21, 2011 5:07 AM

HEY! GUESS WHAT I FOUND ON GOOGLE!

 

[quote user= "Caption"]Aircraft at the isolated Plant No. 1 had to be assembled during construction, taken apart, traansported to an airfield, reassembled, and test flown. Then they were either taken apart again and finally moved to the waiting customer or just flown to the customer[/quote] Source

 

-Morgan

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Posted by g&gfan on Sunday, March 20, 2011 4:50 PM

I know the plane isn't the same as on the Athearn flatcar, but DeHavilland used to ship crated airplanes from Toronto, ON to the ports on the east and west coasts of Canada during the 1950s.

In CN Lines V10 No. 2, Stan Svihla wrote an article covering this practice, complete with pictures from de Havilland/Bombardier. The planes mentioned were the Beaver and the Otter. One photo shows a crated Beaver destined for Mobil Oil in Tripoli, Libya. The crated Otter is labelled for Ideroes (sic), Norway..  I'm not sure that either plane would be able to make the flight overseas without special modifications. 

The plan was to crate the planes, ship them overseas to the nearest port, assemble them by company representatives and fly the planes to their destination. This was after the planes had been built, tested and disassembled at the factory.

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Posted by Lake on Sunday, March 20, 2011 3:56 PM

Jeff,

Thanks for the information. This has been an interesting topic.

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

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Posted by jeffhergert on Saturday, March 19, 2011 8:17 PM

I have a booklet titled, "I.C.C. Commodity Code Numbers in Alphabetical Order."  It was put out by the Rock Island around 1960, give or take a few years.  I'm sure other railroads also had similiar booklets for their use.

It's a listing of freight articles and their ICC commodity class code number.  In this booklet, 625 is used for Airplanes.  There are quite a few different listings.  One is for "Airplane fuselage with power" which I would take as being a small single engine aircraft.  Another is for "Airplane fuselage without power" which could be a small aircraft or part of a larger aircraft.  Then there are the other various listings for the parts of airplanes; wings, elevators, propellors, etc.  All are under commodity code number 625.

So, for whatever reason someone must have sent enough small airplanes to rate an ICC classification.  When it comes right down to it, I'm sure all the railroad would care about is that the check clears when payment is made.

Jeff        

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Posted by Lake on Saturday, March 19, 2011 7:32 PM

fec153

reads like our government in action.  

flip

No, it does not.

This is not a "Bash the Government" forum. Nor a political forum.

Last I read it is a model train forum and a question about shipping an aircraft by train.

Ken G Price   My N-Scale Layout

Digitrax Super Empire Builder Radio System. South Valley Texas Railroad. SVTRR

N-Scale out west. 1996-1998 or so! UP, SP, Missouri Pacific, C&NW.

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