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WALTHERS TO ANNOUNCE NEXT PASSENGER TRAIN... Locked

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Posted by conford on Wednesday, July 18, 2012 8:28 PM

Well I am hoping for the Pere Marquette, but I guess the George might be interesting too. Some of us Northern Region people think that is the Thornapple River Bridge there, but then the Pere Marquettes were fairly short trains with no sleepers.

More C&O equipment would make all of us happy!

Cheers

Peter

Modeling Grand Rapids Michigan, C&O, PRR and NYC operations circa 1958.
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Posted by fmilhaupt on Thursday, July 19, 2012 6:14 AM

 

I'm with Peter on hoping for more 1950 Pullman Standard C&O cars. We could use another run of the skirted, half-fluted coaches, and for them to bring out the C&O-style 10-6 sleeper that about half a dozen roads eventually owned.

There were some neat cars in that order that got around to a lot of other railroads.

 

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by mobilman44 on Thursday, July 19, 2012 7:11 AM

I would love to see the IC City of New Orleans but that will never happen.

ENJOY  !

 

Mobilman44

 

Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central 

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Posted by Rapido on Thursday, July 19, 2012 10:11 AM

My vote is for the CN Tempo.  I need all 20+ cars for my layout and I know of at least THREE other people who want them too.  That means sales of at least FOUR complete trains.  It will be a hit... 

Big Smile Angel

-Jason

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Thursday, July 19, 2012 2:22 PM

Sorry Jason, MobileMan By the cover of the 2013 catalog, it will be the C&O George

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by 7j43k on Thursday, July 19, 2012 2:59 PM

I'm far from a C&O expert. BUT:

 

The car behind the locomotive is an ACF baggage-mail car.  It's a model of a GN car.  I don't find C&O owning any ACF lightweights at all.  

So, since Walthers has always made the proper cars (pretty much) for each name-train, I don't see any C&O name-train in the near future.  Or PM, for that matter.

But it does appear they're going to do a PM E unit and at least one car painted to match.

 

Ed

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Posted by sakel on Thursday, July 19, 2012 3:03 PM

maybe it's amtrak, with the metroliner and the new consists.

Samuel A. Kelly

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:53 PM

If it will be the George Washington, then based on that photo, it would be with inaccurate equipment.

A 1950s George Washington would be an interesting departure for Walthers, as it would have to be a mix of heavyweight and streamlined cars. The George never had a "clean" all-streamlined consist.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by BRAKIE on Friday, July 20, 2012 8:08 PM

Forty Niner

Bet you'll have to bake it yourself though...........nothing is ever RTE!!

Mark

WGAS

Am I to understand you never had any of the "instant railfan meal in a can"? Laugh

Larry

Conductor.

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Saturday, July 21, 2012 2:46 PM

Well, because the D&RGW around 1950 took over some C&O orders for passenger cars when the C&O decided to back out after ordering too many, I am hopefull that possibly new C&O based cars may also be usable by D&RGW fans.

The D&RGW assumed slots originally ordered by C&O for Pullman Standanrd cars which were fluted on below the window line.  So far Walthers has run only one car that is a near match to the C&O PS car, the 52 seat chair car, which I picked up from Walthers when they were blowing out the first run for $16 each.  Now of course you gotta pay 60+ for the latest run of the same car, and not improved that I can see.  Anyhow, $60 for a new Walthers plastic passenger car beats $550 for a Division Point brass model that won't run on a layout anyway!

So I do hope these are C&O cars and can can be used by D&RGW fans to match up to a few more cars used in the Prospector series.  I honestly don't know if the C&O ran cars which were direct matches to the D&RGW cars or if Rio Grande took over slots that were not duplicated by the C&O.

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Saturday, July 21, 2012 5:58 PM

riogrande5761

Well, because the D&RGW around 1950 took over some C&O orders for passenger cars when the C&O decided to back out after ordering too many, I am hopefull that possibly new C&O based cars may also be usable by D&RGW fans.

Here are the 25 cars that the D&RGW took over from the C&O's large PS order, and the corresponding cars the C&O actually accepted:

Plan 4167 10-6 Sleeper* - D&RGW #1270-1273 - C&O #2600-2655
Plan 7596 Lunch Counter-Buffet-Lounge - D&RGW 1290-1292 - C&O #1903
Plan 7600 Coach - D&RGW #1240-1247 - C&O #1610-1668
Plan 7601 Coach-Baggage - D&RGW #1230-1231 - C&O #1403
Plan 7603 Mail and Express - D&RGW #1200-1202 - C&O canceled the rest
Plan 7608 Diner - D&RGW #1280-1281 - identical to existing PM #10-11, C&O canceled  the rest
Plan 7609 Baggage-Express - D&RGW 1210-1212 - C&O canceled the rest

*Within a year of delivery, the D&RGW converted these into 5-5-6 sleepers, swapping five roomettes for five sections. 

 

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Sunday, July 22, 2012 12:58 PM

fmilhaupt

 riogrande5761:

Well, because the D&RGW around 1950 took over some C&O orders for passenger cars when the C&O decided to back out after ordering too many, I am hopefull that possibly new C&O based cars may also be usable by D&RGW fans.

 

Here are the 25 cars that the D&RGW took over from the C&O's large PS order, and the corresponding cars the C&O actually accepted:

Plan 4167 10-6 Sleeper* - D&RGW #1270-1273 - C&O #2600-2655
Plan 7596 Lunch Counter-Buffet-Lounge - D&RGW 1290-1292 - C&O #1903
Plan 7600 Coach - D&RGW #1240-1247 - C&O #1610-1668
Plan 7601 Coach-Baggage - D&RGW #1230-1231 - C&O #1403
Plan 7603 Mail and Express - D&RGW #1200-1202 - C&O canceled the rest
Plan 7608 Diner - D&RGW #1280-1281 - identical to existing PM #10-11, C&O canceled  the rest
Plan 7609 Baggage-Express - D&RGW 1210-1212 - C&O canceled the rest

*Within a year of delivery, the D&RGW converted these into 5-5-6 sleepers, swapping five roomettes for five sections and gaining a small restroom window near the door on one side. The old Lambert "C&O 10-6" brass sleeper has this added window.

If I understand your list correctly, there are 4 cars which the D&RGW bought which matched cars the C&O took delivery of, the first 5 on your list.  So there is no chance of getting the Mail & Express car, the Diner or the Baggage-Express cars duplicated by the possible C&O cars which may be offered by Walthers.  Well, I'll take what I can get.  The typical latter day prospector had a baggage, coach-baggage, coach, diner and sleeper.  If I'm lucky I could get a coach-baggage and a sleeper out of the deal, but will still be minus the diner.  Only the Pere Marquette got like dinners then?

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Monday, July 23, 2012 5:31 AM

riogrande5761

 

 

If I understand your list correctly, there are 4 cars which the D&RGW bought which matched cars the C&O took delivery of, the first 5 on your list.  So there is no chance of getting the Mail & Express car, the Diner or the Baggage-Express cars duplicated by the possible C&O cars which may be offered by Walthers.  Well, I'll take what I can get.  The typical latter day prospector had a baggage, coach-baggage, coach, diner and sleeper.  If I'm lucky I could get a coach-baggage and a sleeper out of the deal, but will still be minus the diner.  Only the Pere Marquette got like dinners then?

Yup, the Pere Marquette got its two diners in 1946 when it launched its streamliner of the same name. The 1950 order cars were built to the same design, and aside from the ones the D&RGW took over, the C&O canceled them.

Based on timing and price, I'm thinking that the Metroliner and upcoming Amfleets will occupy the "name train" slot for the foreseeable future. Based on that, I've pared back my expectations to some new paint jobs on E7s and a new bridge.

I'll definitely be asking at the National Train Show in a couple of weeks, though.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by riogrande5761 on Monday, July 23, 2012 3:49 PM

No worries Fmilhaupt,

I tend to keep my expectation low and am very happy when something good comes along.  As it is I have a list if items I haven't been able to afford to buy as they hit the market so it's not like I have surplus cash laying around and still need to chip away at acquiring rolling stock issued in the past 12 months or so!

We'll keep a weather eye on the passenger car releases - if Walthers does do C&O, I'll see if anything matches!

Rio Grande.  The Action Road  - Focus 1977-1983

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Posted by De Luxe on Monday, July 30, 2012 8:48 PM

So are there any news about that North Coast Limited train? When I look at the Walthers news, that won´t be the case for 2013. But I hope they´ll bring out that train in 2014. After the Twin Cities Hiawatha and Empire Builder, it would seem logical to me that they would do a third "Northwest of Chicago" train in order to fullfill that MILW-GN-NP main northwestern roads topic. Releasing the cars in both the 1948 Pine Tree and the 1954 Two Tone Green scheme would indeed be very welcomed!

 

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Monday, July 30, 2012 9:48 PM

According to a Walther's rep I spoke with recently, the announcement on the new train will be made Friday.

(And no, this person hasn't leaked it to anyone.)

Over the longer term, Walthers' new RailTech DCC and Sound sets may be the bigger news this week. The first ones are already up on their web site, with an example set at http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/931-891

 

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Wednesday, August 1, 2012 2:42 PM

Curious,

I've always noticed that Walthers puts their current name train on the cover.  If it's not the C&O PM this year, then they are breaking with their previous trends.

But given their trend, it is to be likely an east coast train as they alternate between east and west, and last time was west.

 

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by railbaron18 on Wednesday, August 1, 2012 4:20 PM

Though I model the ACL, I'd like to see someone do the American Freedom Train, though it'd  probably be in 2026- our 250th birthday if they produced it.

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Friday, August 3, 2012 2:27 PM

<dupe> Sorry.

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Friday, August 3, 2012 2:28 PM

<dupe>

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by DigitalGriffin on Friday, August 3, 2012 2:28 PM

I called it. It's the C&O PM.

 http://www.walthers.com/exec/page/pere_marquette

The catalog cover is always a dead give away.

Walthers must have known I have a massive C&O passenger collection:

 

2 FP- 7

1 E-7 (PM)

2 E-8

4-8-2 Heavy Mtn C&O George

and 52 Passenger cars (including RPO, baggage, etc)  All C&O

They saw me coming.  Too bad it's not the C&O Geroge.  It would have been fun to build a triple overpass bridge or a Richmond Station. *sigh*

 

I wonder if they will offer a station for the PM

Don - Specializing in layout DC->DCC conversions

Modeling C&O transition era and steel industries There's Nothing Like Big Steam!

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Posted by 7j43k on Friday, August 3, 2012 8:23 PM

DigitalGriffin

I called it. It's the C&O PM.

 

 

Well, no, it isn't.  It's a bunch of cars PAINTED for PM.  Though I think the baggage is correct.  So, they did 1/7th. of the PM.

 

Ed

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Posted by FlyingCrow on Friday, August 3, 2012 8:38 PM

There were NO sleepers on the PM's.   Second, the first and last cars were identical so that the consist didn't have to be turned in Chicago.   Third....who are they kidding?    

AB Dean Jacksonville,FL
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Posted by De Luxe on Saturday, August 4, 2012 6:14 PM

Well, I think you can model the George Washington without any problems with these new cars. Just don´t use the PM lettered RPO and take an older Walthers C&O lettered RPO, and a couple of smooth side sleepers and coaches and there goes a nice streamlined George Washington. It would be interesting for me to know what car type was more present in a GW consist: fluted or smooth side cars?

By the way: Too bad C&O sold it´s domes intented for the Chessie to the D&RGW! I think the George Washington would have looked great with a dome car and round ended observation, painted into the matching colors...

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Posted by csmith9474 on Saturday, August 4, 2012 6:30 PM

I really wish the Chessie would have become a reality. I really love the coal turbine, but that locomotive alone costs an arm, leg AND first born.

Smitty
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Posted by fmilhaupt on Sunday, August 5, 2012 8:58 AM

I look at this release as being like the UP City of Everywhere release from a couple of years ago. This has Walthers releasing several cars that C&O modelers can use, which are usable all over the C&O system, not only in Michigan.

Car-by-car:

* The baggage car - Used at one time or another all over the system. These two cars kept their Pere Marquette lettering, though later lost their fluting and skirting.

* The coach - the 52-seat coach was the backbone of the C&O passenger car fleet after 1950, allowing the C&O to retire or sell off lots of older coaches. Not all of them, though. They started to have their fluting removed in the 1960s, but started losing their skirting the mid-to-late 1950s. Walthers has that covered with the two coach variants.

* The coach-diner - This was a clever move by Walthers. All it required was a new interior and a roof vent for the 52-seat coach. I performed a kitbash like this a number of years back for the PMHS' newsletter. The coach-diners made it to many places on the C&O during their careers.

* The C&O 10-6 sleeper - This was the standard C&O sleeper. It pushed all of the heavyweights off of C&O trains, and appeared nearly everywhere on the C&O system where there were sleeper-equipped passenger trains (the Hto Springs branch was chiefly the domain of the 11-double bedroom cars). This is the car I've been going on about for years as the "missing link" that modelers of a number of other roads can use. The 10-6 was used on the Resort Special from Chicago to Petoskey.

* The Tavern-Lounge - On the C&O it was a one-of-a-kind. While it spent many years between Grand Rapids and Chicago as either the only food service on a train or at times augmenting a diner, it also found its way to the "traditional C&O" on occasion. This is a car I've wanted for years, but not enough to spring for a brass model.

* The RPO - Not a C&O car, not a PM car. 'just wears the paint and fills out the train. I'm overlooking it in my pleasure at their bringing out the other cars.

I think that this train was a smart move by Walthers. You can make an accurate consist for some of the post-1953 Pere Marquette streamliners (not all Pere Marquettes ran with an RPO), and can use the cars for other C&O trains.

Given production constraints and some question (in my mind, at least) of the wisdom of bringing out another 10-14 car train in the current market, this release makes sense. A small version of the GR-Detroit train from this era would have baggage car, optionally an RPO, two or three coaches and a coach-diner.

A GR-Chicago train would have a baggage car, optionally an RPO, two or three coaches and either a coach-diner or Chessie Club.

A Chicago-GR-Petoskey Resort Special would have a baggage car, coaches, Chessie Club (as far as Grand Rapids), one or more 10-6 sleepers, and frequently sleepers (heavyweight or streamlined) from other roads.

Plus, Walthers already makes the heavyweight baggage car that appeared on these trains fairly often.

Finally I can get more of the as-delivered fluted coaches with skirting. I've had use for about four more and haven't been able to find them recently.

My only disappointments are that according to a Walthers rep, the bridge will not be released as a product (it was strictly a photo prop), and that they went with an inaccurate car for the RPO. Alternatives to the RPO are the venerable Rivarossi heavyweight RPO, or a car made from a brass sides kit for the 80-90 series C&O heavyweight RPO that will be available in limited release later this summer from a Detroit-area modeler.

I'm quite happy with the outcome.

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Sunday, August 5, 2012 9:07 AM

De Luxe

Well, I think you can model the George Washington without any problems with these new cars. Just don´t use the PM lettered RPO and take an older Walthers C&O lettered RPO, and a couple of smooth side sleepers and coaches and there goes a nice streamlined George Washington. It would be interesting for me to know what car type was more present in a GW consist: fluted or smooth side cars?

I don't think that the C&O actually took the fluting off any of its 10-6 sleepers. At least I haven't seen any photos of the 10-6 sleepers in service on the C&O with smooth sides. The other railroads that bought the cars second-hand (such as the B&O and the IC) tended to remove the fluting, though.

Some of the the 5-double-bedroom-buffet-lounge-observation cars ran without fluting in the 1960s, though. Might those be the cars you're thinking of?

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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Posted by wojosa31 on Sunday, August 5, 2012 10:31 AM

I do not believe that any of the 10-6 C&O sleepers lost their fluting while in C&O service. The B&O cars bought direct from C&O, there were 4 10-6, until the late 1960s. The 10 B&O sleepers delivered direct from PS were delivered with smooth sides. The 4 5db-observations C&O sold to the B&O retained their fluting into Amtrak.

I appreciate the information concerning the usefulness of the cars for other C&O service.

 

 

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Posted by De Luxe on Sunday, August 5, 2012 4:31 PM

@ fmilhaupt:

could you probably give me an early 50´s consist of the George Washington, formed with these new Walthers cars?

About the fluted C&O sleepers: I never saw a photo of such cars as well, I just thought that they maybe exist (maybe because I saw older non prototypical Walthers C&O sleepers). I´m not too familiar with C&O streamliner equipment yet, although the C&O is by far my favorite eastern road and passenger paint scheme (I´m more a SP, SF, T&P & MILW fan in general).

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Posted by fmilhaupt on Tuesday, August 7, 2012 6:44 AM

De Luxe

@ fmilhaupt:

could you probably give me an early 50´s consist of the George Washington, formed with these new Walthers cars?

Well, while my focus is the Michigan operations, one of the passenger car books I have has some consists for the George. Its consist changed as it progressed across the system in the 1950s, with cars added and removed. It typically ranged from 7 to 12 cars. Is there a particular stretch of its trip that you're interested in?

For example, on the stretch between Clifton Forge, Virginia and Hinton, West Virginia, you'd typically have:

* One or two baggage/express cars - Most typically the heavyweight car Walthers is discounting right now.

* Three coaches - The new Walthers streamlined coaches. Add one more if the train is running on Friday.

* A Lounge/Diner - This would be either the heavyweight car Walthers already has released, or one of the streamlined blunt-end observation cars built for Chessie connecting service. The streamlined car has not been released in any form. The Walthers heavyweight is your best bet- it's not an exact match, but it's the closest stand-in out there.

* Five 10-6 sleepers - The new Walthers streamlined sleepers. You could substitute an NYC 10-6 sleeper for one of these, since one car was an interline movement to St. Louis via the NYC.

The consist book information indicates that a full diner ran between Washington and Charlottesville, and that an RPO ran between Hinton and Cincinnati.

 

-Fritz Milhaupt, Publications Editor, Pere Marquette Historical Society, Inc.
http://www.pmhistsoc.org

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