Doughless davidmbedard: Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours. Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item. That's a great point David. While I agree with those who are comfortable bidding their highest price then forgetting about it, they could possibly have had the same item for much less if they just waited unitil the final few seconds to bid their highest price.
davidmbedard: Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours. Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.
Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours.
Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.
That's a great point David. While I agree with those who are comfortable bidding their highest price then forgetting about it, they could possibly have had the same item for much less if they just waited unitil the final few seconds to bid their highest price.
Of course, that presumes that another last-minute bidder isn't trying the same thing, in which case our bidding bots will automatically bump the bids up to above the lower bidder's maximum. If I bid $100 early, and you bid $101 at the last second, you win at $101. If we both bid at the last minute, with the same maximums, you still win at $101.
If, on the other hand, the starting bid is $50, and I bid $100 five days early, and no one else bids on the item before it closes, I get it for $50.
It's whatever works for each person.
"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes
tatans how many you need email I will send them. I tried for an hour and don't know how to contact you off-line. tatans
how many you need email I will send them.
I tried for an hour and don't know how to contact you off-line. tatans
Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.
Not necessarily true in either case. A single bidder does not drive up the price of an item. The price of an item is set by the second highest bidder, not the highest bidder. It therefore takes 2 or more bidders to drive the price of an item - regardless of when bids are placed.
As for sniping, say the maximum on my early bid is $90, because I think that's what the item plus shipping is worth. To snipe me, you have to have a maximum of $91 or more. It doesn't matter whether you place that $91 max bid 5 days or 5 seconds prior to auction end - you win at $91. The only way you can get a better deal by sniping is if I set my early bid max at $75 instead of the $90 that I actually think the item is worth (admittedly a common mistake). An early set and forget at my real maximum takes away the snipers supposed advantage.
Which is what the snipers have been complaining about in this thread. With my early bid of $90, if somebody else joins me in early bidding the price quickly goes up to whatever the other bidder's maximum is, or $91, whichever is lower. Which is discouraging to the snipers hoping to snag the item for $70 or less.
So sniping only gains a low price when the early bidders don't set high enough maximums. Not worth it for the 3-4 items I buy on eBay a year. Being a contrarian can be fun.
Fred W
The make an offer option is there for just that..... for people to make offers. You could have offered $298 and he could have declined it if he wanted.... The seller may have been waiting to see if someone would make a better offer. If you want try it again and see what happens.
When listing an item with the make an offer option the seller can also set the "fields so ebay will automaticly refuse or accept an offer. Here is an example:
I sell something for BIN of $100 or make offer. I can set it up so it will automaticly refuse any offers less than say $80 and will automaticly accept offers over $90. If you offer $85 it would give me the option to think about it and either refuse or accept. I usually dont sell with that option anyway, but you can also set it up so you as the seller has to manually refuse or accept all offers.
I have gotten some good deals makeing offers on things, and yet others I have offered only $10 below asking and still wasnt accepted by the seller. As with everything you just never know.
I want your Snowplows!!!!!
Click on "Start Conversation" in the lower part of the message block -- what used to be called PMs are now conversations. But you have to edit your user profile to allow conversations, and you haven't done that.
HELP ! OK, OK, How do I respond to a reply on this forum, I tried everything, I even phoned MR and was told to go to Q&A with no response, why the mystery to contact another poster? any help out there?
What irked me most was a recent experience where I don't think the seller was quite ethical --
A G-scale items was listed for a "Buy It Now" price of $299 or "Make An Offer." I made an offer of $200. The time ran out and the item apparently did not sell because it is listed again for another 30 days under the same terms --
Is this legal under e-Bay policy? It seems to be, or should be, against E-Bay policy for someone to do this.
eaglescout I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar. My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item. Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want. It is also pretty funny that anyone can ship a car in a flat rate box for $4.95 to anywhere in the lower 48 but others want$10 or more to ship one car.
I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar. My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item. Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want. It is also pretty funny that anyone can ship a car in a flat rate box for $4.95 to anywhere in the lower 48 but others want$10 or more to ship one car.
That's not necessarily a "shill". That sounds like a sniper. There are programs available that will place a last-second bid for you, which eBay then compares to the other bids for the item and places a bid one notch higher than the highest maximum bid, up to your maximum amount. For example if there's an item showing a bid of $3.50, and there have been 4 bids placed, the highest bid has the highest maximum amount, which might be $5. With 15 seconds to go in the bidding, your software places a bid on the item for $10, your maximum that you'd be willing to pay. eBay then compares your bid to the high bid so far. it then adds the increment amount (the minimum increase allowed for that item, usually $1) to that high bid and you get the item for $6.
While it may seem unfair to the guy who loses what he thought was a sure thing, it's not. If he bid the maximum he was willing to pay, and someone else was willing to pay more, them's the breaks. The software is free (google JBidwatcher for a good example, or "auction sniping" for full information). Even though I use it myself, I've been beaten, either by someone who came in earlier with a higher amount, or by someone who uses the "buy it now" option. It's a crap shoot either way, so if you're not willing to go with the roll of the dice, don't step up to the table.
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Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com
===================================
"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins
http://fhn.site90.net
I dislike the sniping concept, personally. If I see an item, I just set my bid and forget it. If you win the auction by a sniping tool, then it means you were still willing to pay more for it than I was, in which case, enjoy it. No hard feelings, c'est la vie, and all that. I also don't buy on eBay enough to worry about any special tools for it.
It's all just stuff, and not really worthy of too much concern. If I've lived the last 51 years without it, then it's a good bet I can live another 51 years without it, too. I can always wait for another auction, if it's an item I'm very interested in.
Yeah. I'm planning on living until 102, at least. The retirement payout I get from my company is pretty pathetic per month (once I actually retire), but it's for the rest of my life. I fully intend to live long enough to make up in longevity what I don't get in monthly outlay. Dadburnit, the company is going to pay for my retirement model railroad, one way or another!
davidmbedard Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours. Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.
- Douglas
Howard, I was generalizing about the internet including Ebay because a lot of the dealers on Ebay run online stores. I know the hobby has suffered over the years, video games and rc vehicles [Helicopters lately] have a huge following. my kids play Xbox as well, but they still love the layuot and are very involved in it's upkeep and operation. I run a small rail museum here and recently we recieved a 17'x 11' N scale layuot as a donation. I had it assembled right in the main lobby, and since we get a large number of young visitors, it makes a big impression on them. I had to deal with a few old RRers who wanted the museum to remain for exhibits only, but I explained to them that the museum needed to go in this direction in order to keep the interest of the younger crowd. We have quite a few of the local kids here involved with the layout now, and I expect that the hobby will do quite well in my town at least.
Oh... 1 more thing.... I dont know what the dollar amount is, but as the price of the item goes up it eventually requires more than just $1 to win. I want to say once it goes over $100 then over $500 or something like that. Higher dollar items say a real car for example require the winning bidder to place a minimum bid in excess of say $100 to win. I'm sure someone else can elaborate better.
The auction will automaticly tell you what the minimum bid needs to be to "try" to win.... or I should say up the bid???? It may still not be high enough as a previous bidder may have put in a substantually higher bid.
I hope that makes sense...LOL
bgard, I've tried for an hour to contact you off-line. How do you do it?
PlowGuy Seller C will get the item because he had the higest bid regardless of when the bid was placed.
Seller C will get the item because he had the higest bid regardless of when the bid was placed.
Okay, thanks. Answered my question.
Regards
If you are mad because you lost a bid by $1 then you either set your maximum bid too low or you are showing symptoms of bidder's syndrome and would be susceptible of overbidding if you were bidding at the end of the auction.
If I find an item I want I use a two step process. (1) Bid what I would like to get it for right away. That way I am covered if I forget to go back and bid later. (2) In the last few seconds I may bid what I am willing to pay for the item.
So far I have not seen a snipe program I am willing to use. I do wish I had wrote one of those programs since the people really coming out with snipe programs are the ones charging a percentage of the auction amount for people to use it.
HO & N scale. Digitrax DCC. Mostly L&N (Louisville and Nashville) railway using a mix of brands. Back in the hobby after a looooong absence.
I think Ebay is a good thing for several reasons. Most hobby shops (both retail and online) seem to have little to offer in the way of kits. RTR is fine for some, but not what I enjoy. Therefore, I go to Ebay. I recently sold some equipment on Ebay that didn't fit my scheme/layout. Where else am I going to sell it? Back to the hobby shop? I don't think so. I sold the items and will use the money from this to purchase other model railroading supplies, some from hobby shops, some online, and probably some from Ebay.
I enjoy visiting hobby shops and have been to many across this country over the last 20 years. However, few of these have what I consider to be a large selection to choose from. Caboose Hobbies (Denver), Des Plaines Hobbies (Chicagoland), Milepost 38 (LA), Mohawk Valley (Albany, NY), these shops are more of an exception than the rule.
One common misconception people have with ebay is that" I lost by only a dollar.... Yes, but no. If an Item goes up today for sale starting at a buck, and I put a bid in for $1000!!!!! It will show me winning it for $1. If two people put sniper bids in 3 days from now to end 5 seconds before the auction ends, 1 at $40 and one at $45 I will win at the end for $46. The system dosent care who put what bids in first even if its down to a few seconds.... the winning bid goes to whoever put in the highest bid before it ended..... Period! It may look like I only won by a dollar, but in fact I would have won regardless unless your snipe was over $1000.
I have tried the sniping in the past but never felt comforable giving my ebay password away. When the snipe was over I changed my password immediatly. Waiting till the end is the best way to try to keep the price down, however I have also seen a highly saught after item with no or little bids "magicly disapear" aka backdoored as the seller got scared it wasnt going to sell high since there were no bids. Some people need to learn that patience is a vertue. I list all the time and usually nothing happens till the end like others have said. To prevent this I usually put in a small bid, sometimes just the starting price to "show interest" There are a lot of crooked people out there, and usually if an item has a bid they wont end it early, but even then it does happen. I usually send them a message asking why the ended the item and that its worth more than what they were probably offered. 9 times out of 10 it gets relisted.
Echoing again what others have said, Ebay is a great place to find things I just ant get from LHS, shows, or other collectors. Know the going rate for what you want, shop smart and wait for the deals. If you miss something.... keep checking , another will come along!
I too always check shipping costs before bidding, FULLY READ the description, I ask lots of questions etc.
Ebay is a good tool if you know how to use it. If you try to hammer a nail with a saw of course your gona get hurt!!!
Just my $0.02 [;)
bgard tatans: What type of people use ebay? I needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were 8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00. with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee. how many you need email I will send them.
tatans: What type of people use ebay? I needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were 8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00. with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee.
What type of people use ebay? I needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were 8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00. with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee.
Not being really familiar with the E-bay process, I guess I have a hypothetical question. Let's suppose that there are no bids on an item. Now let's suppose that there is a bidder C who bids early on with one of those "I'll raise the last bid by $1.00" escalating bids with a maximum bid of $50 and a starting bid of $10. And then there are no further bids until the end.
Now let's assume that there are two snipers out there with their software set to make their bids 5 seconds before the end of bidding, and that sniper A sets his bid at $40 and sniper B sets his bid at $45.
So what happens? If the $40 sniper's bid gets there first and time runs out does he win the bid; or if both sniper bids get there at the same time does sniper B win with his $45 bid; or does C automatically win with his I'll top the last bid with a winning amount of $46?
Or are E-Bay's computers smart and fast enough to say "wait a second, let me take a break for a second and figure out what actually happened here"?
Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!
Thanks
I'm a sniper, I don't engage in bidding wars.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
If there was ever a place where the rule of "caveat emptor" was applicable, eBay is it.
I occasionally buy from eBay, but my practice is to decide what the item is worth for me, including shipping, and set my bid accordingly. Then, I don't bother going back to the auction until after it is done. It gets too easy to be drawn into a bidding war, with a mentality of, "You can't beat me on this!"
Any item where the shipping is NOT stated right up front, does not get a bid from me. Any item with outrageous shipping charges, also does not get a bid, regardless of how much I might want it.
That is a good point. There is no hobby shop in my town. There is a small shop in the next town that is mostly models and all their train stock is DC. 150 miles round trip will get me to a small city and 300 miles round trip will get me to a mid size city with a decent train shop. 20 years ago I would drive there when I wanted a good selection. Now I have options. It is hard to justify 4 hours of travel plus the cost when I can browse the internet or pick up deals on Ebay.
One important thing not mentioned is the rising price of gas. I buildt my first HO empire back in the late eighties and nineties by traveling to and attending train shows. I live in central Texas so when gas was around a dollar a gallon it was very cost efficient to make day trips to Dallas,Houston and San Antonio to the some 8 trains shows a year that used to be very well attended.
Today at 3.25 for the top grade, which my car uses, I can get better deals on ebay or just by googling it and finding it from one of the online shops. As far as my local hobby shop, it is still about 45 miles round trip or about $4.00 in gas, which is almost shipping at Trainworld or MB Klein. So why lose the time and pay extra for the items.
Another factor is time. Back in the eighties and nineties the kids were young and the wife had Saturday's off. Today, since she has become a boss in her field she is only off one Saturday a month so traveling anywhere is becoming very difficult. In fact the average work week for most Americans is higher than it has been since the "Gilded Era". That could be one the reasons Train Shows seem to be so full of retirees.
SB
Really!
Man I have trashed every form of hook coupler known to hobbykind... Shoulda had a V8!
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5959
If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007
Utley26 Seriously Fred and Sheldon: employ your same bidding strategy with a program like Esnipe and you'll have three times the success with a fraction of the effort, and never pay more than you want.
Seriously Fred and Sheldon: employ your same bidding strategy with a program like Esnipe and you'll have three times the success with a fraction of the effort, and never pay more than you want.
At times being a contrarian is actually fun.
Sniping depends on 2 conditions to be present to be any more effective than other strategies:
If these conditions are not present, sniping is no different than any other bid system. As both buyer and seller, I have seen eBay occasionally slip auction finish times - without any action on the part of a seller. And if an earlier bidder bid his real maximum, then the snipe bid has to trump that price to win, no matter how late the snipe bid is placed.
OTOH, early bidding has some advantages that are rarely acknowledged (besides the set max bid and walk away). An early minimum bid is needed to lock the seller in. Until the 1st minimum bid is received, the seller is free to withdraw or cancel the auction.
And if there are two early bidders, they may drive the price high enough early enough to discourage the bottom feeders and snipers who are more interested in the search for the deal than the item. As a seller, I don't want the price to get to the 75%-80% point early in the week because then the snipers don't show for the last minute push, and my final sell price is actually lower. The auctions where I get the best price (as a seller) are where there is a frenzy of activity in the last 15 minutes. As a buyer, I want the price up to 75% of my final price early on because there are far fewer snipers likely to show.
But in all cases, it takes two bidders to move the price up. My bidding first does nothing to move the price up - it is the second bidder and both our maximum bids that drive the price.
Bottom line: if you examine the auctions, you'll find that sniping is only successful at obtaining lower prices under certain conditions. And if I bid early with a realistic maximum bid, I have negated the advantages of sniping. The sniper still has to determine whether my maximum bid is too high for his taste, and whether he wants the item badly enough to snipe the item - all in a matter of seconds. Call me a stupid idiot if you like, but it doesn't change the outcomes.
PS Like many others, eBay is not my first choice source of model railroad items. It is a convenient market to find items that are out of stock, or not stocked, in retail outlets. And it is a very convenient market for used items - for both sellers and buyers.
Mister Mikado I opened an MR magazine from 1983 the other day. First of all it had 156 pages, chock full of ads, in the days of no ebay. But ads in a hobby mag are a good thing. They show you what's out there and you could request an item at your LHS. Then I counted the LHS listings by state. In New York alone there were 46! The nationwide total was in the 1000s, I lost count. Nice look back to the former glory days of the LHS.
I opened an MR magazine from 1983 the other day. First of all it had 156 pages, chock full of ads, in the days of no ebay. But ads in a hobby mag are a good thing. They show you what's out there and you could request an item at your LHS. Then I counted the LHS listings by state. In New York alone there were 46! The nationwide total was in the 1000s, I lost count. Nice look back to the former glory days of the LHS.
Back in the day Walther's ads proudly announced "Your dealer can get it from Walthers"..
What a joke that was!! You see 60% of the time the requested item was not in stock at Walthers so,we had to turn to mail ordering in order to get the requested item..
Please understand a lot of shops back in the day was not well stocked except for those BB engines and cars,few Atlas engines,few Walther kits,some wooden car and structure kits,some track,paint,decals and maybe some brass as well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Though I use eBay as a buyer and seller I love going to the LHS, even when I do not buy much I love browsing the shelves for an hour or so just seeing what it out there. Yesterday, I visited one, tried out an older locomotive of mine I am trying to sell and dropped off another one for them to repair. They'll get it done in much less time and for less money then the importer and hopefully do a good job at it! In addition, I also bought a few items I needed for the night, and intend to buy much, much more such as the materials I'll need for the dioramas I am building.
Internet sales have a place in this hobby, but let's keep the LHS in the equation too especially when they earn our business.
Alvie
p.s the Tichy water columns I mentioned, I bought one at an LHS.
B&O1952 Ebay and the internet marketplace in general has been an important part of our layout construction mostly because it's much more convenient than making the trek to the nearest hobby store some 40 miles away. When I do go there it's more for a general search since there's no guarantee they'll have what I'm looking for specifically. My town has always been a RR town with 2 major RRs having yards here up until the early 1980's, but we haven't had a hobby store in town since that time. Modelers here had to find another way to keep their projects going. This layout has been a project since the days of Linn Wescott, and will probably never be completely finished. Having Ebay to get the items we're looking for at any time has made our layout what it is today. I've found some real bargains on the internet that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. I still hit the hobby shop when I can, and I still go to the local train show twice a year, but most of my purchases are through the internet now.
Ebay and the internet marketplace in general has been an important part of our layout construction mostly because it's much more convenient than making the trek to the nearest hobby store some 40 miles away. When I do go there it's more for a general search since there's no guarantee they'll have what I'm looking for specifically. My town has always been a RR town with 2 major RRs having yards here up until the early 1980's, but we haven't had a hobby store in town since that time. Modelers here had to find another way to keep their projects going. This layout has been a project since the days of Linn Wescott, and will probably never be completely finished. Having Ebay to get the items we're looking for at any time has made our layout what it is today. I've found some real bargains on the internet that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. I still hit the hobby shop when I can, and I still go to the local train show twice a year, but most of my purchases are through the internet now.
We are also several generations removed from the heydey of railroading, and each new generation seems a bit futher removed. Could this have some effect? Fortunately I will not live long enough to see the hobby fade out. Actually I don't think that it will. Change? You bet!
HZ