What type of people use ebay? I needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were 8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00. with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee.
I use Ebay. This week I notice that something I had bid on sold for more than the buy it now price of an identical item sold by the same seller. Shipping was the same on the two listings.
HO & N scale. Digitrax DCC. Mostly L&N (Louisville and Nashville) railway using a mix of brands. Back in the hobby after a looooong absence.
And here I am, throwing horn hook couplers into the trash by the hundreds instead of hawking them on e-Bay.
What really irritates me are the sellers who want outlandish shipping charges to make up for their low initial starting prices, like $12.95 for a $0.99 item, or the maroon who was asking nearly $10 for a metric screw that you could get at any good hardware store for less than 25 cents. But it was a 'genuine' original made in West Germany!
tatans What type of people use ebay? I needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were 8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00. with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee.
how many you need email I will send them.
You can buy brandy-spanking new ones here:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200450357
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200445672
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?ID=200414373
ALl for cheap and available for next day shipping.
-G .
Just my thoughts, ideas, opinions and experiences. Others may vary.
HO and N Scale.
After long and careful thought, they have convinced me. I have come to the conclusion that they are right. The aliens did it.
Simple answer. You cannot fix stupid.
But, a useful by product from this. Gives people here something to talk about.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
I was bidding on a older model Digtrax Empire Builder "new in the box" last week. The idem sold for more than I can buy the newer model Empire Builder online. Some people must not do there home work or they don't care. But to pay more for used than new is crazy.
Did you happen to see the Spiderman HO set that started at 1000.00 on e bay ,wonder why they didnt get any bids LOL.
I use Ebay all the time and have come to the realization that many who bid on items get 'caught up in the bidding excitment' and don't care as much about what they paid but more about "I won the bidding war!". I sold my three old Rivarossi articulated locos and bought the same three with the newer drives (RP25 profile wheels, can motors wiith flywheels) and paid less than what I sold the old ones for. What a country! I don't think people know the value of items and don't research them before buying.
Another point, many charge high shipping and low starting bid because you are paying a fee to Ebay based on the selling and listing value and not the shipping cost. list at $.99 and charge $12.95 shipping, you pay the fee on the $.99, not the $12.95.
- Bob
Life is what happens while you are making other plans!
I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar. My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item. Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want. It is also pretty funny that anyone can ship a car in a flat rate box for $4.95 to anywhere in the lower 48 but others want$10 or more to ship one car.
I've been a buyer and a seller on E-bay for a number of years now and have been able to seriously add to my rolling stock, equipment, & dioramas for super cheap. Yes. I've found myself caught in bidding frenzy but after a while you can learn to keep your wits about you. I often don't bid until practically the last moment to prevent the seller's 'friends' from upping the price automatically. But I've managed to get an entire Hogwarts Express for under $50, a President's Choice Bullet-Nosed Betty for $75, half a dozen flatcars with circus wagons on them for $10...and the list goes on.
The main trick is to remember: unless you made it & so know there's only one, NOTHING is 'rare' on E-bay. If the asking price is too much, or the shipping looks 'hinky', relax - there will be another one along someday. And at your price. And maybe even your color.
I would like to know, though, why some sellers refuse to ship to Canada; we're just next door!
Happy bidding!
What gets me is the stupidity of people that bid on a item DAYS before the auction is due to end, thus jacking up the price. With the amount of legal and low-cost software out there to automatically place last second bids, the idiocy of early bidders is mind-boggling.
I guess they get some sort of satisfaction of being the current "high-bidder"
Utley26 What gets me is the stupidity of people that bid on a item DAYS before the auction is due to end, thus jacking up the price. With the amount of legal and low-cost software out there to automatically place last second bids, the idiocy of early bidders is mind-boggling. I guess they get some sort of satisfaction of being the current "high-bidder"
Call me stupid, and an idiot as well.
But then my goal is not to win an auction, or to get any item at the absolute lowest price. Rather my goal is to find out-of-production stuff that fits well on my layout for a reasonable price - current street price or less.
I prefer to set my maximum bid when I'm not caught up in the moment. I know what specific items I'm looking for and will not bid on anything else. I research the going price. I prefer to make my bid on the last day, but it could be considerably earlier in the cycle depending on my plans for the rest of my life. Then I walk away, and let others decide whether my offered price is good enough. Since I won't go back and raise my bid, those who want to snipe my bids had better want the item. And be willing to pay more than I am willing to pay - even 1 cent more.
With my stupidity, I have won all I have wanted to win without paying more than I thought the item was worth. It may take me several auctions (on one locomotive it took about 6 auctions) to win the particular model I'm interested in, but I've always eventually gotten the item for a reasonable price. Actually, my method ends up discouraging snipers because they can't win at the last second with an absurdly low bid (hence the complaint I'm replying to). And yes, I've gotten 2nd chance offers from sellers when the reserve wasn't met or the sniper reneged.
my thoughts and experiences, your choices
Fred W
There are softwares out there (and I use one occasionaly, called 'Snipe') that let you set your max bid and how close to the end to place the bid, usually 5 seconds, and when several people bidding are using these the price escelates in the last minute. If I find an item I really want I will lock in my max that I am willing to pay and then sit back and don't worry about the auction any more. When the auction ends, if my bid wins, OK and if it doesn't that's OK too because I didn't overbid what I was willing to pay in a rational moment. I get about 50% of the items this way. I too have stocked my layout with decent priced HO equipment and many are no longer in production. You just have to keep your wits about it.
I don't buy much on Ebay, but when I do, my method is exactly the same as Fred W, and for the same reasons. And it as worked well for me also.
I am amazed at some of what goes on there, but there is no accounting for stupid.
Sheldon
I'll most likely get toilet paper in my trees and eggs tossed at my house....but so what! The hobby used to be about building and operating model trains with the emphasis on building. I'd dare to estimate how many non-productive hours and funds are spent on this venue. Most model rails have a fixed budget and an allotment of free time to be used for their hobby. I do know first hand many who spend over 20 hours per week and then some and most if not all of their model railroad budget on this worthless venue. If they seek rewards and entertainment, that is their business and God given right, but..........when all of the LHS's are finally closed, you have only yourselves to awnser to.
I have also sold and purchased on eBay and have found that most of my transactions bore fruit, but had these funds went to support the LHS and my time used in the basement I'd would have probably been much better off. I quit selling for only one reason..........I no longer believe in eBay as I am sure that it is hurting a hobby I've been in for over 5 decades and has become an important part of my life.
When the LHS becomes part of American Folklore, do you honestly believe that you'll find the staples needed to practice model railroading in the classical sense on eBay.......you guys know, things like paint, track glue, small parts, etc. These are the things that hobby shops stock as a service and reap very little profit, but I hear so many times ...."I can get it cheaper on eBay!" I have always viewed the LHS as a needed service and an integeral part of the hobby......so much so, that when they eventually go...so will the hobby. Not immediately, but the decline will be noticeable.
HZ
Ah eBay... for about 2-years I've sold stuff on eBay in addition to buying and it's an experience to say the least. For one thing it always astounded me how inconsistent it could be selling trains. I listed three N-scale tank cars and only got $7 for them though all three were like new. I guess it had just been a bad time to sell. Recently, I just bought and turned around, with a tidy profit, a brass model inside a week. One I bought through a shop, not a yard-sale find. While cruising eBay today I saw someone selling Tichy water columns for 9.95 each plus shipping! The retail is 4.95 and the model is still in production!
eBay is a real useful resource I think for finding goods you are not likely to find else where and often the prices are great but the old adage buyer beware is something we should all truly take to heart.
Alvie
farrellaa There are softwares out there (and I use one occasionaly, called 'Snipe') that let you set your max bid and how close to the end to place the bid, usually 5 seconds, and when several people bidding are using these the price escelates in the last minute. If I find an item I really want I will lock in my max that I am willing to pay and then sit back and don't worry about the auction any more. When the auction ends, if my bid wins, OK and if it doesn't that's OK too because I didn't overbid what I was willing to pay in a rational moment. I get about 50% of the items this way. I too have stocked my layout with decent priced HO equipment and many are no longer in production. You just have to keep your wits about it. - Bob
Exactly, Bob. Well said. I use Esnipe. Set your maximum comfortable bid a week in advance, file, forget, and wait for the winning email. But if others want to toil away at 6 auctions to win one locomotive, when they jacked up the price all the way and could have had it for less on the first try, so be it.
Seriously Fred and Sheldon: employ your same bidding strategy with a program like Esnipe and you'll have three times the success with a fraction of the effort, and never pay more than you want.
eaglescout I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar. My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item. Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want.
I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar. My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item. Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want.
It works both ways. I have purchased several brand new items as less than MSRP, sometimes substantially less. I recently won the bidding on a retired Walthers Fron Street Warehouse for $40 that originally sold for nearly $90.
Alton Junction
Howard Zane I have also sold and purchased on eBay and have found that most of my transactions bore fruit, but had these funds went to support the LHS and my time used in the basement I'd would have probably been much better off. I quit selling for only one reason..........I no longer believe in eBay as I am sure that it is hurting a hobby I've been in for over 5 decades and has become an important part of my life. When the LHS becomes part of American Folklore, do you honestly believe that you'll find the staples needed to practice model railroading in the classical sense on eBay........ HZ
When the LHS becomes part of American Folklore, do you honestly believe that you'll find the staples needed to practice model railroading in the classical sense on eBay........
Some interesting points, Howard and your prediction relating to the final demise of the LHS rings bells of sadness. Because, collectively, it’s the end of a retail institution. Some may say progress, however, to my mind progress infers a positive benefit otherwise it's just change. However, I do think that ebay does have a place in a modelers buying mix. Without ebay, I would not have been able to buy the Brass Baldwin Centipede in SAL paint that you listed there a few years ago - how else would I have been able to add this - then - much sought after model for my SAL roster. No regrets buying on ebay in that instance - none before or since either come to think of it.
As we all are aware, change in inevitable. Main Street retail has surrendered their existence to places like Wal-Mart and their ilk. People who had operated family owned retail outlets for generations have been quietly put out of business. Route 66 gave way to the Interstate. Hobbyists find it convenient to buy on-line at the modern equivalent of the great mail order houses of the past. Ebay fills a need for people to access items that are difficult to find elsewhere. Love it or hate it – mock it or revere it, ebay has allowed people to buy stuff they might never have known even existed. Now, people can shop at a huge emporium and auction house and sift through more stuff than a LHS could ever hope to stock even if they stayed in business for a thousand years or more.
I’m old enough to regret the passing of many things that were once accepted parts of our every day life. I miss the stores that operated on main street where the people that worked there knew my name and I loath even the concept of strip malls and super duper price busting outlets that have no soul and a heart as cold as ice and the way they seduce me with their gaudy tart like offers that are supposed to attract me into spending more than I earn on things that I don’t need or even want sometimes. And I hate it that I allow myself to be manipulated in this way. How I am studied and surveyed by them to ascertain how I can be persuaded to part with even more money on even more stuff I don’t need.
But, that’s how the world is changing, that’s the direction we as shoppers have allowed ourselves to be taken. In the end, we really don’t care if old man Jones has to close his store on main street coz Wally-world sells all this cool stuf and it’s so much cheaper – no, it’s too bad for him and good news for our credit cards and aint that the truth of it?
Bruce
Howard said:
Howard,
As someone who has also been in the hobby a long time and spend my younger years working in hobby shops and even managing a train department in one, I can tell you with confidence that small retail hobby shops and/or model train only shops were in trouble long before E-bay or even the internet.
As the depth of available product increased in the 80's, and mail order discounting became more common, it quickly became clear that larger shops with more complete inventories, who could also buy direct and be more competitive, would be the only ones to survive.
The internet outlets other than E-bay, have had much more of an effect on speeding up that process than E-bay.
I agree that the industry has been undermined by the discounting - but again, that started long before E-bay. It has all but eliminated the wholesale distributors and required that successful shops have an internet presence and be able to offer some level of discounting.
Maybe we should really blame Ted Klein, Standard Hobby, Hobbies for Men, AHC, for starting that trend some 35-40 years ago?
Fact is, hobby shops/train stores cannot be effective without representitive inventories, that takes big money these days - and space. Money you had better have, not borrow, in today's banking/business climate.
I deal with some great retail shops here in the Mid Atlantic, the same ones you do. I buy as much as possible from all of them. But push comes to shove, some big purchases are going to go were the price is right, its just common sense and self preservation.
I am more inclined to blame an industry that did not grow and adapt, then to blame Ebay or even the internet.
Actually, I think we are in a great possition right now to see the industry and the hobby get healthier. Why? Because the elimination of wholesalers that is happening has and will continue to even out prices. Consider Athearn, Walthers, Intermountian, Bachmann, and list of others who have evened out the range of prices on their products somewhat by going to self distribution or by selling direct to all but the smallest retailers. With what is very close to a "one wholesale price" to all policy, these companies have put all retailers and mail order outlets on a much more level playing field, even if it is a playing field that requires you to be "be a pro" and be able to make a sizable investment.
Now if we can just get the manufacturers to stop cutting each other throats with too much product duplication and instead grow the hobby by offering more variety, which would buck up the prices rather than prompting them and their retailers to under cut each other, we could see some real progress in maintaining a base of good quality retail shops, who more than likely would also have a good web presence as well. That combined with some willingness to invest in long term inventory would bring back strong regional shops and do a lot for the hobby in general.
The "preorder", sell it all in a week, mentality is killing the hobby more than discounting or the internet. Thankfully, Athearn, Bachmann and a few others are not falling too deep in that trap.
I do think the "neighborhood" shop is gone forever. Having lived in the Baltimore region all my life, and having been in the hobby for 40 years, I remember a time when there were 6-7 good hobby shop/train stores just in the Baltimore area. I don't think we will ever see that again. This area does seem to be model train heaven, but even here the small neighborhood shops have been replaced larger, fewer, internet connected, farther into the suburbs, shops that are in touch with a larger market - hopefully that idea grows and prospers.
Just my thoughts,
Ebay and the internet marketplace in general has been an important part of our layout construction mostly because it's much more convenient than making the trek to the nearest hobby store some 40 miles away. When I do go there it's more for a general search since there's no guarantee they'll have what I'm looking for specifically. My town has always been a RR town with 2 major RRs having yards here up until the early 1980's, but we haven't had a hobby store in town since that time. Modelers here had to find another way to keep their projects going. This layout has been a project since the days of Linn Wescott, and will probably never be completely finished. Having Ebay to get the items we're looking for at any time has made our layout what it is today. I've found some real bargains on the internet that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. I still hit the hobby shop when I can, and I still go to the local train show twice a year, but most of my purchases are through the internet now.
B&O1952 Ebay and the internet marketplace in general has been an important part of our layout construction mostly because it's much more convenient than making the trek to the nearest hobby store some 40 miles away. When I do go there it's more for a general search since there's no guarantee they'll have what I'm looking for specifically. My town has always been a RR town with 2 major RRs having yards here up until the early 1980's, but we haven't had a hobby store in town since that time. Modelers here had to find another way to keep their projects going. This layout has been a project since the days of Linn Wescott, and will probably never be completely finished. Having Ebay to get the items we're looking for at any time has made our layout what it is today. I've found some real bargains on the internet that I wouldn't have found anywhere else. I still hit the hobby shop when I can, and I still go to the local train show twice a year, but most of my purchases are through the internet now.
We are also several generations removed from the heydey of railroading, and each new generation seems a bit futher removed. Could this have some effect? Fortunately I will not live long enough to see the hobby fade out. Actually I don't think that it will. Change? You bet!
Though I use eBay as a buyer and seller I love going to the LHS, even when I do not buy much I love browsing the shelves for an hour or so just seeing what it out there. Yesterday, I visited one, tried out an older locomotive of mine I am trying to sell and dropped off another one for them to repair. They'll get it done in much less time and for less money then the importer and hopefully do a good job at it! In addition, I also bought a few items I needed for the night, and intend to buy much, much more such as the materials I'll need for the dioramas I am building.
Internet sales have a place in this hobby, but let's keep the LHS in the equation too especially when they earn our business.
p.s the Tichy water columns I mentioned, I bought one at an LHS.
I opened an MR magazine from 1983 the other day. First of all it had 156 pages, chock full of ads, in the days of no ebay. But ads in a hobby mag are a good thing. They show you what's out there and you could request an item at your LHS. Then I counted the LHS listings by state. In New York alone there were 46! The nationwide total was in the 1000s, I lost count. Nice look back to the former glory days of the LHS.
Mister Mikado I opened an MR magazine from 1983 the other day. First of all it had 156 pages, chock full of ads, in the days of no ebay. But ads in a hobby mag are a good thing. They show you what's out there and you could request an item at your LHS. Then I counted the LHS listings by state. In New York alone there were 46! The nationwide total was in the 1000s, I lost count. Nice look back to the former glory days of the LHS.
Back in the day Walther's ads proudly announced "Your dealer can get it from Walthers"..
What a joke that was!! You see 60% of the time the requested item was not in stock at Walthers so,we had to turn to mail ordering in order to get the requested item..
Please understand a lot of shops back in the day was not well stocked except for those BB engines and cars,few Atlas engines,few Walther kits,some wooden car and structure kits,some track,paint,decals and maybe some brass as well.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Utley26 Seriously Fred and Sheldon: employ your same bidding strategy with a program like Esnipe and you'll have three times the success with a fraction of the effort, and never pay more than you want.
At times being a contrarian is actually fun.
Sniping depends on 2 conditions to be present to be any more effective than other strategies:
If these conditions are not present, sniping is no different than any other bid system. As both buyer and seller, I have seen eBay occasionally slip auction finish times - without any action on the part of a seller. And if an earlier bidder bid his real maximum, then the snipe bid has to trump that price to win, no matter how late the snipe bid is placed.
OTOH, early bidding has some advantages that are rarely acknowledged (besides the set max bid and walk away). An early minimum bid is needed to lock the seller in. Until the 1st minimum bid is received, the seller is free to withdraw or cancel the auction.
And if there are two early bidders, they may drive the price high enough early enough to discourage the bottom feeders and snipers who are more interested in the search for the deal than the item. As a seller, I don't want the price to get to the 75%-80% point early in the week because then the snipers don't show for the last minute push, and my final sell price is actually lower. The auctions where I get the best price (as a seller) are where there is a frenzy of activity in the last 15 minutes. As a buyer, I want the price up to 75% of my final price early on because there are far fewer snipers likely to show.
But in all cases, it takes two bidders to move the price up. My bidding first does nothing to move the price up - it is the second bidder and both our maximum bids that drive the price.
Bottom line: if you examine the auctions, you'll find that sniping is only successful at obtaining lower prices under certain conditions. And if I bid early with a realistic maximum bid, I have negated the advantages of sniping. The sniper still has to determine whether my maximum bid is too high for his taste, and whether he wants the item badly enough to snipe the item - all in a matter of seconds. Call me a stupid idiot if you like, but it doesn't change the outcomes.
PS Like many others, eBay is not my first choice source of model railroad items. It is a convenient market to find items that are out of stock, or not stocked, in retail outlets. And it is a very convenient market for used items - for both sellers and buyers.
Really!
Man I have trashed every form of hook coupler known to hobbykind... Shoulda had a V8!
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=5959
If one could roll back the hands of time... They would be waiting for the next train into the future. A. H. Francey 1921-2007
One important thing not mentioned is the rising price of gas. I buildt my first HO empire back in the late eighties and nineties by traveling to and attending train shows. I live in central Texas so when gas was around a dollar a gallon it was very cost efficient to make day trips to Dallas,Houston and San Antonio to the some 8 trains shows a year that used to be very well attended.
Today at 3.25 for the top grade, which my car uses, I can get better deals on ebay or just by googling it and finding it from one of the online shops. As far as my local hobby shop, it is still about 45 miles round trip or about $4.00 in gas, which is almost shipping at Trainworld or MB Klein. So why lose the time and pay extra for the items.
Another factor is time. Back in the eighties and nineties the kids were young and the wife had Saturday's off. Today, since she has become a boss in her field she is only off one Saturday a month so traveling anywhere is becoming very difficult. In fact the average work week for most Americans is higher than it has been since the "Gilded Era". That could be one the reasons Train Shows seem to be so full of retirees.
SB