Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

E-bay again Locked

11443 views
85 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Kentucky
  • 24 posts
Posted by Rabid on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 12:41 PM

That is a good point. There is no hobby shop in my town. There is a small shop in the next town that is mostly models and all their train stock is DC. 150 miles round trip will get me to a small city and 300 miles round trip will get me to a mid size city with a decent train shop. 20 years ago I would drive there when I wanted a good selection. Now I have options. It is hard to justify 4 hours of travel plus the cost when I can browse the internet or pick up deals on Ebay.

HO & N scale. Digitrax DCC. Mostly L&N (Louisville and Nashville) railway using a mix of brands. Back in the hobby after a looooong absence.

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Tucson, Arizona
  • 27 posts
Posted by Hoomi on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 12:49 PM

If there was ever a place where the rule of "caveat emptor" was applicable, eBay is it.

I occasionally buy from eBay, but my practice is to decide what the item is worth for me, including shipping, and set my bid accordingly. Then, I don't bother going back to the auction until after it is done. It gets too easy to be drawn into a bidding war, with a mentality of, "You can't beat me on this!"

Any item where the shipping is NOT stated right up front, does not get a bid from me. Any item with outrageous shipping charges, also does not get a bid, regardless of how much I might want it.

"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Big Blackfoot River
  • 2,788 posts
Posted by Geared Steam on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 2:49 PM

I'm a sniper, I don't engage in bidding wars.

 

 

"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein

http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 3:20 PM

davidmbedard

Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours.

Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.

Not being really familiar with the E-bay process, I guess I have a hypothetical question.  Let's suppose that there are no bids on an item.  Now let's suppose that there is a bidder C who bids early on with one of those "I'll raise the last bid by $1.00" escalating bids with a maximum bid of $50 and a starting bid of $10.  And then there are no further bids until the end.

Now let's assume that there are two snipers out there with their software set to make their bids 5 seconds before the end of bidding, and that sniper A sets his bid at $40 and sniper B sets his bid at $45.

So what happens?  If the $40 sniper's bid gets there first and time runs out does he win the bid; or if both sniper bids get there at the same time does sniper B win with his $45 bid; or does C automatically win with his I'll top the last bid with a winning amount of $46?

Or are E-Bay's computers smart and fast enough to say "wait a second, let me take a break for a second and figure out what actually happened here"?

Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!

Thanks 

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 4,115 posts
Posted by tatans on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 3:42 PM

bgard

 tatans:

What type of people use ebay?  I  needed a couple of horn-hook couplers( I can hear the screams already) so on to ebay, some guy was selling 14 couplers and there were  8 bids and the price was up to $25.00, below was another seller with a pack of 350 for $5.00.  with the amount of hatred for horn hook couplers what gives with the prices, there must be a horn-hook graveyard out there somewhere with billions and billions of them, now that the "law" is Kaydee.

 

how many you need email I will send them.

I tried for an hour and don't know how to contact you off-line.  tatans

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Virginia Beach, Virginia
  • 24 posts
Posted by PlowGuy on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 3:55 PM

Seller C will get the item because he had the higest bid regardless of when the bid was placed.

One common misconception people have with ebay is that" I lost by only a dollar.... Yes, but no. If an Item goes up today for sale starting at a buck, and I put a bid in for $1000!!!!! It will show me winning it for $1. If two people put sniper bids in 3 days from now to end 5 seconds before the auction ends, 1 at $40 and one at $45 I will win at the end for $46. The system dosent care who put what bids in first even if its down to a few seconds.... the winning bid goes to whoever put in the highest bid before it ended..... Period! It may look like I only won by a dollar, but in fact I would have won regardless unless your snipe was over $1000.

I have tried the sniping in the past but never felt comforable giving my ebay password away. When the snipe was over I changed my password immediatly. Waiting till the end is the best way to try to keep the price down, however I have also seen a highly saught after item with no or little bids "magicly disapear" aka backdoored as the seller got scared it wasnt going to sell high since there were no bids. Some people need to learn that patience is a vertue. I list all the time and usually nothing happens till the end like others have said. To prevent this I usually put in a small bid, sometimes just the starting price to "show interest" There are a lot of crooked  people out there, and usually if an item has a bid they wont end it early, but even then it does happen. I usually send them a message asking why the ended the item and that its worth more than what they were probably offered. 9 times out of 10 it gets relisted.

Echoing again what others have said, Ebay is a great place to find things I just ant get from LHS, shows, or other collectors. Know the going rate for what you want, shop smart and wait for the deals. If you miss something.... keep checking , another will come along!

I too always check shipping costs before bidding, FULLY READ the description, I ask lots of questions etc.

Ebay is a good tool if you know how to use it. If you try to hammer a nail with a saw of course your gona get hurt!!!

Just my $0.02 [;)

I want your Snowplows!!!!!

  • Member since
    March 2008
  • From: O'Fallon, MO
  • 96 posts
Posted by kbaker329 on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 3:58 PM

I think Ebay is a good thing for several reasons.  Most hobby shops (both retail and online) seem to have little to offer in the way of kits.  RTR is fine for some, but not what I enjoy.  Therefore, I go to Ebay.  I recently sold some equipment on Ebay that didn't fit my scheme/layout.  Where else am I going to sell it?  Back to the hobby shop?  I don't think so.  I sold the items and will use the money from this to purchase other model railroading supplies, some from hobby shops, some online, and probably some from Ebay. 

I enjoy visiting hobby shops and have been to many across this country over the last 20 years.  However, few of these have what I consider to be a large selection to choose from.  Caboose Hobbies (Denver), Des Plaines Hobbies (Chicagoland), Milepost 38 (LA), Mohawk Valley (Albany, NY), these shops are more of an exception than the rule.

HO scale modeling N&W and Union Pacific, somewhere in Missouri between 1940 & 1990!
  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Kentucky
  • 24 posts
Posted by Rabid on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 4:34 PM

If you are mad because you lost a bid by $1 then you either set your maximum bid too low or you are showing symptoms of bidder's syndrome and would be susceptible of overbidding if you were bidding at  the end of the auction.

If I find an item I want I use a two step process. (1) Bid what I would like to get it for right away. That way I am covered if I forget to go back and bid later. (2) In the last few seconds I may bid what I am willing to pay for the item.

So far I have not seen a snipe program I am willing to use. I do wish I had wrote one of those programs since the people really coming out with snipe programs are the ones charging a percentage of the auction amount for people to use it.

HO & N scale. Digitrax DCC. Mostly L&N (Louisville and Nashville) railway using a mix of brands. Back in the hobby after a looooong absence.

  • Member since
    February 2008
  • 8,908 posts
Posted by maxman on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 4:37 PM

PlowGuy

Seller C will get the item because he had the higest bid regardless of when the bid was placed.

Okay, thanks.  Answered my question.

Regards

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 4,115 posts
Posted by tatans on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 4:47 PM

bgard, I've tried for an hour to contact you off-line. How do you do it?

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Virginia Beach, Virginia
  • 24 posts
Posted by PlowGuy on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 4:58 PM

Oh... 1 more thing.... I dont know what the dollar amount is, but as the price of the item goes up it eventually requires more than just $1 to win. I want to say once it goes over $100 then over $500 or something like that. Higher dollar items say a real car for example require the winning bidder to place a minimum bid in excess of say $100 to win. I'm sure someone else can elaborate better.

The auction will automaticly tell you what the minimum bid needs to be to "try"  to win.... or I should say up the bid???? It may still not be high enough as a previous bidder may have put in a substantually higher bid.

I hope that makes sense...LOL

I want your Snowplows!!!!!

  • Member since
    March 2009
  • From: Western NYS
  • 549 posts
Posted by B&O1952 on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 5:22 PM

Howard, I was generalizing about the internet including Ebay because a lot of the dealers on Ebay run online stores. I know the hobby has suffered over the years, video games and rc vehicles [Helicopters lately] have a huge following. my kids play Xbox as well, but they still love the layuot and are very involved in it's upkeep and operation. I run a small rail museum here and recently we recieved a 17'x 11' N scale layuot as a donation. I had it assembled right in the main lobby, and since we get a large number of young visitors, it makes a big impression on them. I had to deal with a few old RRers who wanted the museum to remain for exhibits only, but I explained to them that the museum needed to go in this direction in order to keep the interest of the younger crowd. We have quite a few of the local kids here involved with the layout now, and I expect that the hobby will do quite well in my town at least.

  • Member since
    December 2008
  • From: Heart of Georgia
  • 5,406 posts
Posted by Doughless on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 5:35 PM

davidmbedard

Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours.

Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.

That's a great point David.  While I agree with those who are comfortable bidding their highest price then forgetting about it, they could possibly have had the same item for much less if they just waited unitil the final few seconds to bid their highest price.

- Douglas

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Tucson, Arizona
  • 27 posts
Posted by Hoomi on Wednesday, February 9, 2011 10:16 PM

I dislike the sniping concept, personally. If I see an item, I just set my bid and forget it. If you win the auction by a sniping tool, then it means you were still willing to pay more for it than I was, in which case, enjoy it. No hard feelings, c'est la vie, and all that. I also don't buy on eBay enough to worry about any special tools for it.

It's all just stuff, and not really worthy of too much concern. If I've lived the last 51 years without it, then it's a good bet I can live another 51 years without it, too. I can always wait for another auction, if it's an item I'm very interested in.

Yeah. I'm planning on living until 102, at least. The retirement payout I get from my company is pretty pathetic per month (once I actually retire), but it's for the rest of my life. I fully intend to live long enough to make up in longevity what I don't get in monthly outlay. Dadburnit, the company is going to pay for my retirement model railroad, one way or another!

"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Kansas City Area
  • 1,161 posts
Posted by gmcrail on Thursday, February 10, 2011 5:21 PM

eaglescout

I have also been outbid in the last few seconds always by exactly one dollar.  My theory is some sellers have phantom "buyers" that are their friends and they bump the bids up without any attention to buy the item.  Either that or they "out bid" the next highest bidder and the seller keeps the item and sells it elsewhere if they don't receive as much as they want.  It is also pretty funny that anyone can ship a car in a flat rate box for $4.95 to anywhere in the lower 48 but others want$10 or more to ship one car.

That's not necessarily a "shill".  That sounds like a sniper.  There are programs available that will place a last-second bid for you, which eBay then compares to the other bids for the item and places a bid one notch higher than the highest maximum bid, up to your maximum amount.  For example if there's an item showing a bid of $3.50, and there have been 4 bids placed, the highest bid has the highest maximum amount, which might be $5.  With 15 seconds to go in the bidding, your software places a bid on the item for $10, your maximum that you'd be willing to pay.  eBay then compares your bid to the high bid so far. it then adds the increment amount (the minimum increase allowed for that item, usually $1) to that high bid and you get the item for $6.

While it may seem unfair to the guy who loses what he thought was a sure thing, it's not.  If he bid the maximum he was willing to pay, and someone else was willing to pay more, them's the breaks. The software is free (google JBidwatcher for a good example, or "auction sniping" for full information).   Even though I use it myself, I've been beaten, either by someone who came in earlier with a higher amount, or by someone who uses the "buy it now" option.  It's a crap shoot either way, so if you're not willing to go with the roll of the dice, don't step up to the table.

---

Gary M. Collins gmcrailgNOSPAM@gmail.com

===================================

"Common Sense, Ain't!" -- G. M. Collins

===================================

http://fhn.site90.net

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:42 PM

What irked me most was a recent experience where I don't think the seller was quite ethical --

A G-scale items was listed for a "Buy It Now" price of $299 or "Make An Offer."  I made an offer of $200.  The time ran out and the item apparently did not sell because it is listed again for another 30 days under the same terms --

Is this legal under e-Bay policy?  It seems to be, or should be, against E-Bay policy for someone to do this.

  • Member since
    May 2004
  • 4,115 posts
Posted by tatans on Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:55 PM

HELP !  OK,  OK,  How do I respond to a reply on this forum, I tried everything, I even phoned MR and was told to go to Q&A with no response, why the mystery to contact another poster?   any help out there?

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
  • 13,757 posts
Posted by cacole on Thursday, February 10, 2011 7:59 PM

Click on "Start Conversation" in the lower part of the message block -- what used to be called PMs are now conversations.  But you have to edit your user profile to allow conversations, and you haven't done that.

 

  • Member since
    January 2011
  • From: Virginia Beach, Virginia
  • 24 posts
Posted by PlowGuy on Thursday, February 10, 2011 8:02 PM

The make an offer option is there for just that..... for people to make offers. You could have offered $298 and he could have declined it if he wanted.... The seller may have been waiting to see if someone would make a better offer. If you want try it again and see what happens.

When listing an item with the make an offer option the seller can also set the "fields so ebay will automaticly refuse or accept an offer. Here is an example:

I sell something for BIN of $100 or make offer. I can set it up so it will automaticly refuse any offers less than say $80 and will automaticly accept offers over $90. If you offer $85 it would give me the option to think about it and either refuse or accept. I usually dont sell with that option anyway, but you can also set it up so you as the seller has to manually refuse or accept all offers.

I have gotten some good deals makeing offers on things, and yet others I have offered only $10 below asking and still wasnt accepted by the seller. As with everything you just never know.

I want your Snowplows!!!!!

  • Member since
    November 2002
  • From: Colorado
  • 4,075 posts
Posted by fwright on Thursday, February 10, 2011 9:48 PM

Doughless

 

 davidmbedard:

 

Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours.

Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.

 

 

That's a great point David.  While I agree with those who are comfortable bidding their highest price then forgetting about it, they could possibly have had the same item for much less if they just waited unitil the final few seconds to bid their highest price.

Not necessarily true in either case.  A single bidder does not drive up the price of an item.  The price of an item is set by the second highest bidder, not the highest bidder.  It therefore takes 2 or more bidders to drive the price of an item - regardless of when bids are placed.

As for sniping, say the maximum on my early bid is $90, because I think that's what the item plus shipping is worth.  To snipe me, you have to have a maximum of $91 or more.  It doesn't matter whether you place that $91 max bid 5 days or 5 seconds prior to auction end - you win at $91.  The only way you can get a better deal by sniping is if I set my early bid max at $75 instead of the $90 that I actually think the item is worth (admittedly a common mistake).  An early set and forget at my real maximum takes away the snipers supposed advantage. 

Which is what the snipers have been complaining about in this thread.  With my early bid of $90, if somebody else joins me in early bidding the price quickly goes up to whatever the other bidder's maximum is, or $91, whichever is lower.  Which is discouraging to the snipers hoping to snag the item for $70 or less.

So sniping only gains a low price when the early bidders don't set high enough maximums.  Not worth it for the 3-4 items I buy on eBay a year.  Being a contrarian can be fun.

Fred W

  • Member since
    May 2005
  • From: S.E. South Dakota
  • 13,569 posts
Posted by Murphy Siding on Thursday, February 10, 2011 10:00 PM

tatans

how many you need email I will send them.

 

I tried for an hour and don't know how to contact you off-line.  tatans

  tatans:  click on his name underneath his avatar at the left.  On the next screen, click on start a conversation and leave him a message.

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Tucson, Arizona
  • 27 posts
Posted by Hoomi on Friday, February 11, 2011 12:07 AM

Doughless

 davidmbedard:

Ebay auctions are won or lost in the last 5 seconds, not the last 5 hours.

Anyone who bids before the last 5 seconds is just driving up the price of the item.

 

That's a great point David.  While I agree with those who are comfortable bidding their highest price then forgetting about it, they could possibly have had the same item for much less if they just waited unitil the final few seconds to bid their highest price.

Of course, that presumes that another last-minute bidder isn't trying the same thing, in which case our bidding bots will automatically bump the bids up to above the lower bidder's maximum. If I bid $100 early, and you bid $101 at the last second, you win at $101. If we both bid at the last minute, with the same maximums, you still win at $101.

If, on the other hand, the starting bid is $50, and I bid $100 five days early, and no one else bids on the item before it closes, I get it for $50.

It's whatever works for each person.

"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • 13 posts
Posted by apache fan on Friday, February 11, 2011 3:41 PM

I  use ebay a lot, and the thing is to know the hobby shop prices, then compare, and especially watch the shipping costs, I always check that first, so people on ebay are crooked sellers and shipping is way more than the cost of the product. by watching costs one can obtain stuff only available on ebay, and save money, but one has to be careful, it's not called evil bay for nothing.

  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: Kansas
  • 808 posts
Posted by jamnest on Friday, February 11, 2011 3:59 PM

I use Ebay a lot.  I am building a fleet for my layout, primarily from MDC/Roundhouse and Athearn BB cars.  I do a lot of research and set my price.  (Set it and forget it.)  If I get outbid OK.  I am aware of the market and research items before I bid.  I consider price and postage verses the price and postage from an online retailer.

I have gotten a lot of good buys on Ebay, and some times not so good buys, however that was my fault. 

I too am amazed at the buyers who are purchasing new items on Ebay when they could buy the same item from an online retailer for much less.

Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 11, 2011 4:11 PM

farrellaa
I use Ebay all the time and have come to the realization that many who bid on items get 'caught up in the  bidding excitment' and don't care as much about what they paid but more about "I won the bidding war!".

I don't know why that is a realization.  That is the whole point of and psychology underlying the "auction" method for selling things.

farrellaa
Another point, many charge high shipping and low starting bid because you are paying a fee to Ebay based on the selling and listing value and not the shipping cost. list at $.99 and charge $12.95 shipping, you pay the fee on the $.99, not the $12.95.

Yup, I'm surprised most people don't realize this.  If this is ones "home business" there is no tax on the shipping either.

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Tucson, Arizona
  • 27 posts
Posted by Hoomi on Friday, February 11, 2011 6:58 PM

jamnest

I too am amazed at the buyers who are purchasing new items on Ebay when they could buy the same item from an online retailer for much less.

Even moreso at those who pay more for an item than they would pay for it from a local brick-and-mortar store.

P.T. Barnum said it best. There's one born every minute.

"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

  • Member since
    April 2005
  • 2,314 posts
Posted by don7 on Friday, February 11, 2011 7:08 PM

Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mini-Metals-30193-1959-Ford-Fairlane-Torch-Red-HO-MIB-/300525292732?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item45f8b40cbc

Plus super high S&H charges. This item belongs in an padded envelope not a Priority cardboard box.

 

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • 126 posts
Posted by southernpacificgs4 on Friday, February 11, 2011 7:56 PM

Some times the charges used by ebay sellers for sending items are high or exaggerated.

I am a ebay buyer and seller

The following is an example of how sometimes I have to charge high charges for sending items oversea, I live in Europe.

The postal services in my country are working with flat rates for certain weights and destinations.

The rates are given for sending parcels to the USA

ex: Standard ( no possibility to following parcel on line and NO compensation in case of lost or damage)

0 till 350grs:  €9,60 (+/-13.25$)

+350 till 1kg: €16,00(+/-22.08$)

+1kg till 2kg: €32.00(+/-44.16)

It becomes more crazy when I want to offer some security: following parcel online and compensation in case of lost and damage

for a parcel between 0 and 5kgs the flat rate postal charges are for sending a parcel to the USA: €52,00(+/-71.76$).

I can not speak for rates used in the USA but the rates used by the postal services in my country are exaggerated.

  • Member since
    October 2004
  • From: Colorful Colorado
  • 8,639 posts
Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 11, 2011 9:45 PM

don7
Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

No, that is another marketing trick.   I have a bunch of the same items for sale.  I put one on a "buy it now" or "starting bid" of a really high price.   Then I list the other one starting a $0.99.    People doing research will see the really high value of the one (especially if I've been continually re-listing it so it shows up in history a lot) and think they are getting a good deal when they win the other one for only 75% of the high priced one.

  • Member since
    February 2011
  • From: Tucson, Arizona
  • 27 posts
Posted by Hoomi on Friday, February 11, 2011 9:46 PM

don7

Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

I think I answered that question in my previous post, with the P.T. Barnum comment. There are just a lot of suckers out there, and people who don't bother to do any research before buying.

"We do not quit playing because we grow old; we grow old because we quit playing." ~ Oliver Wendell Holmes

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!