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Posted by tstage on Monday, February 14, 2011 2:11 PM

Well, I think this thread has pretty much covered the bases on the topic.  Time to "bid it" farewell. Smile

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Posted by Milepost 266.2 on Monday, February 14, 2011 1:52 PM

AF53

That 13% tax, could that be our future???????

Ray

 

Still less than the average monthly premium...

On topic, there's simply no way in the world eBay can monitor and regulate pricing.  There are millions of items listed every week, and many do not have a "MSRP" anymore.  The bargains are there, and the ripoffs are there.  Just be careful and use your head.  

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Posted by TMarsh on Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:26 PM

Ah e-bay. Yes I use it for a few items I can't get at my LHS. It has it's very useful purpose and it also opens up the options for folks without LHS to buy items the same as other auction or for sale sites.I agree that I don't understand why certain things go for even higher than MSRP, but who knows what someone is thinking. Rare Vintage probably. But with the Internet shops as discout, I don't see why anyone pays MRSP. But that is just me.

My strategy is exactly like that of Hoomi so I won't repeat.

In regards to sniping vs place highest bid, Sniping originally came out when more peopl would sit at their computers and bid, basically, live. The snipe program would allow the person to place a bid so close to the last second a person could not react to raise the bid and you didn't have to be there to do it.

The way I see it, and you will have to really explain it if I'm wrong, (so far the explanations for it don't add up) every auction that is won, is won by the highest bid regardless of how long that bid has been placed. If I am willing to pay $100 for an item, and every other bidder out there feels $50 is max, and the sniper out there only feels it's worth $95, then the only thing sniping will do is run the bid from say $50 to $95 at the last second. I will still win and the only thing the sniper does, as they claim early bidding does, is run up the price for me. OK, that's the name of the game and I can live with it. The ONLY way sniping will be advantageous, other than putting an outrageously high bid to ensure a win (and I wonder if that isn't what some of these high prices aren't from, a couple snipers waxing themselves) is to place a bid at such a late time that a person without snipe, cannot react fast enough to place a higher bid than they already have.

So, if every one bids like Hoomi, myself, and others, that is place early or at anytime even the last minute, their highest bid they are willing to pay, even snipers, the outcome is the same. The highest bid wins.

Most every reason for sniping, other than to beat the last second manual changed bid, is arguable. It may make a person feel good by thinking they burst someones bubble at the last minute by snagging it out from under them, but the logic of it hiding a high bid and keeping the price down is flawed and quite frankly I don't see how you could think it does. Because you had to max bid higher to snag it and you would have won anyway even if you bid yesterday, you just did it at the last second. With one exception. If by waiting until the last second you bid and it happens to be the highest, you may keep someone from having the oportunity to rethink their high bid. As for me and many others though, I've already made that decision.  

Personally, knowing the way auctions work, I don't care if you snipe or not. It makes no difference to me. My max bid is what I'm willing to pay and if you want it worse than I do, bid. I don't care how or when. So, if it makes you feel better, snipe away.

    

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Posted by AF53 on Sunday, February 13, 2011 10:58 AM

That 13% tax, could that be our future???????

Ray

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Posted by BRAKIE on Sunday, February 13, 2011 9:23 AM

Hoomi

 Utley26:

Let's face it, early max bidding is stone age Ebay. 

So easy, a caveman could do it...

Maybe that's why I prefer it?

I must be a caveman..I place my maximum bid and wait..Some times it Congratulations and other times Sorry you didn't...At least I don't slide into the sellers best friend-a bidding war.

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Posted by ATLANTIC CENTRAL on Sunday, February 13, 2011 8:00 AM

bigpianoguy

I don't drive but transportation costs definitely factor in to my willingness to use Ebay. The oldest & best LHS in Toronto recently moved not only out of town but to a suburb with a different transit system, so a roundtrip to their store to get brands like Rapido not carried by the smaller in-town shops costs over $12.00. Then factor in a 13% tax on just about everything and HELLO EBAY!!!

A 13% tax! Ouch! Glad I'm not where you are. Ebay sounds like a good choice for you. I think our 6% sales tax is too high, I remember when it was 3%.

Well as I posted earlier, I buy a few things now then and I sell a few things now and than. Again, mostly new old stock stuff I need.

Being a true capitalist, I have no problem with Ebay's policys - If people don't check/know the value of what their buying, so what? Why should Ebay baby sit them? I seldon if ever buy from the "storefront" guys, but for people who don't have access to other shops, most of them seem reasonable to me.

If you don't like the seller fees, don't use it - it's not like it's a secret they spring on you.

Several on here are complaining about the same vender selling the same item for two different prices? But Airlines do that all day long every day, to tens of thousands of customers - and everybody (except me) thinks that's just fine?

At least on Ebay I can search for the lowest price - with the airline you don't have that kind of choice - price is set by dozens of factors the consumer is unaware of and cannot control - so you buy a ticket for $300 and sit next to a guy who only paid $79  - just another reason why I don't need air travel.

There has been much debate about bidding stratagy - I don't have one - if I want it, I pick a maximum value I will pay, and bid that - if I win fine, if not, that's fine too.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Sunday, February 13, 2011 1:33 AM

don7

 

 Texas Zepher:

 

 don7:
Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?
No, that is another marketing trick.   I have a bunch of the same items for sale.  I put one on a "buy it now" or "starting bid" of a really high price.   Then I list the other one starting a $0.99.    People doing research will see the really high value of the one (especially if I've been continually re-listing it so it shows up in history a lot) and think they are getting a good deal when they win the other one for only 75% of the high priced one.

 

 

 

Good to know your stratagy as you are attempting to rip off the guilable.

So you think people are too stupid to check out the other listings and see you are the same seller.

I haven't sold anything on e-bay for years and years.  it is way too expensive.   Besides I was describing in the simplest terms that I could the marketing strategy.  I just choose to use first person cause it is easier for "guilable" people to understand (Actually that is another marketing strategy called personalization).    This strategy  is taught in every marketing 101 class in the country, right next to the "loss leader" (Walmart style).     I personally hate that e-bay allows people to run a "storefront" on an auction site.   Way back when eBay was young it was against the rules to have two auctions going for the same item.  If a person had more than one to sell it had to be a "Dutch Auction", but they have obviously changed their rules.  Ebay also has obviously has all the marketing strategies down pat.   I'm certain they have people with masters and PhDs in marketing working for them.

And yes people don't check or notice.  There are tens of examples out there right now of  Model Railroad Train ebay storefronts doing this.   But look at the stuff they sell.  It is a strategy that works.

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 5:09 PM

Utley26 - I get your point and maybe everyone will be a "sniper" in the future. But there comes a point where at around $25 you need to be outbid by $1 then you would have to raise that by another $1. So if I sumitted my max at $25 in order to get it I now I am paying about 8% more than I wanted in the first place so probably it wasn't ment to be mine anyway.

I am curious if you can change your bid on snipe during the bid process if it tops you bid by $1 with say 10 seconds left?

Finally, and this is what prompted me to respond in the first place, I would hope that someone has enough respect for others without calling them stupid or idiots, I'm sure at one point in your life you were stupid and even idiotic but didn't like it.

Respectfully,

Ray

 

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Posted by Hoomi on Saturday, February 12, 2011 5:04 PM

Utley26

Let's face it, early max bidding is stone age Ebay. 

So easy, a caveman could do it...

Maybe that's why I prefer it?

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Posted by Utley26 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 4:56 PM

Let's face it, early max bidding is stone age Ebay.  Really you can't even call it a strategy since it's been on the Ebay "how to" since day one.  Sniping is just the next logical step.

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Posted by Utley26 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 3:47 PM

AF53

Maybe I'm missing something so bear with me. Using my previous example, if with 2 days left and I place a bid of $50 and it's let's say the second bid with the previous bid at $10 I believe my bid will show at $10.50? So I'm not really tipping my hand. Isn't my max bid hidden? Again correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a pro at Ebay. And when the final seconds come, which might be a snipe bid at $45, I would still win. Because the snipe bid never new my max bid? Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not argueing against sniping I just don't believe that bidding minutes ahead of the clock makes you loose more often than a lower snipe bid would make you lose. After all your max is your max whether you snipe or not.

Thanks

Ray

Yes, but again, early bidding increases your chances of being outbid by a fraction.  You can say $50 is your max bid, but I'll bet you would pretty happy with $50.01, $50.65, or even $51.99.  With an early bid you give everyone plenty of time to keep bidding to find your max, and you subsequently lose the item by a margin.  Sniping won't always win, but if I snipe I know my bid went in a few seconds before the end, and no one had the chance systematically micro-bid above me.  And if I snipe with my absolute max bid and lose, so be it.  Someone was willing to pay more than me, but at least I didn't make it possible for them to keep bidding a fraction above. 

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Posted by bigpianoguy on Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:39 PM

I don't drive but transportation costs definitely factor in to my willingness to use Ebay. The oldest & best LHS in Toronto recently moved not only out of town but to a suburb with a different transit system, so a roundtrip to their store to get brands like Rapido not carried by the smaller in-town shops costs over $12.00. Then factor in a 13% tax on just about everything and HELLO EBAY!!!

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:36 PM

Utley26 - Maybe I'm missing something so bear with me. Using my previous example, if with 2 days left and I place a bid of $50 and it's let's say the second bid with the previous bid at $10 I believe my bid will show at $10.50? So I'm not really tipping my hand. Isn't my max bid hidden? Again correct me if I'm wrong because I'm not a pro at Ebay. And when the final seconds come, which might be a snipe bid at $45, I would still win. Because the snipe bid never new my max bid? Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not argueing against sniping I just don't believe that bidding minutes ahead of the clock makes you loose more often than a lower snipe bid would make you lose. After all your max is your max whether you snipe or not.

Thanks

Ray

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Posted by Forty Niner on Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:22 PM

I haven't really been following this thread so the question I'm going to ask may have already been asked, my apologies if it has but.............

As someone who has bought and sold sold on Ebay since the late 1990's when they started has anyone checked the "NEW" feedback rules? They are clearly slanted in the buyers favor and there are just as many crooked buyers as there are crooked sellers. The awarding of the stars can make or break a sale pretty fast so I can understand why we are seeing less and less of the individual sellers and more and more "dealers".

I, for one, and several others Ebay sellers that I know are going to the YaHoo HOyardsale for any future listings, one set price, no PayPal "required" and from experience I can say that they offer as much protection as Ebay does if you get "scammed". Which is to say "nothing" other than "lip service" mostly.

I will continue to "buy" off of Ebay but selling is out of the question, they change their rules faster than I change my socks and I have yet to see it get better.

I only use the "buy-it-now" feature as I tired of getting "sniped" years ago and I've still found more bargains that I'll ever have the money to pay for.

It was a great deal for the first 5-7 years but since then it's gone to the dump for my money.

Mark

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Posted by Utley26 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 12:59 PM

AF53

But if I'm willing to spend, let's say $50, on a car now and the sale ends in two days, what different does it make? Ray

The difference is you've played your hand for all to see with 2 days left.  I snipe with my max bid and no one sees it (until of course I've won the item).  If I don't win it that's fine, becuase my snipe bid was the max I wanted to pay.

You guys keep trying to argue against sniping, but all you do is keep making points for it.  If you are morally opposed, fine.  I get that.  Let that be your position; don't try to make some convoluted argument why bidding early is better, becuase it doesn't make sense.  Yes, there are times when bidding early will be AS GOOD as sniping, but never "better".  But there are times when sniping is better than early bidding, because sniping takes advantage of Ebay's time-limited auction framework. 

Everyone agrees that bidding wars suck.  So if you're going to place a max bid and walk away, why not let a computer do it with mere seconds left? 

I'd rather stack the odds of not being outbid in my favor.  Therefore, I snipe.   

 

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:38 AM

David - I disagree. The other day I won a box car in great shape with a price I set 3 days earlier. Noone else bid on it and I won the item super cheap and uncontested. I'm sure it doesn't happen often but I'm also sure I'm not the only one to win this way.

So to recap....I did bid early and didn't drive up the price.

Ray

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Posted by AF53 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 10:08 AM

Utley26 - But if I'm willing to spend, let's say $50, on a car now and the sale ends in two days, what different does it make? If I get it then I'll get it. If not then......Some would say it avoids getting "caught up" in the last moment and overpaying. Is it better to have all bidders place their bid with 5 seconds left? The only thing that "jacks up a price is overpaying for something, not bidding early.

Ray

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Posted by Flynn on Saturday, February 12, 2011 9:30 AM

Hey Darrell,

I can give you a reason to stop scratching your head.  I work; a lot.  I refuse to use a crackberry or iPhone either.  I'll put in a bid on something I "want" well ahead of time.  It's the most I'm willing to pay for it. 

I do it so I don't forget about bidding on it 6 days later.  I had that happen too many times "watching" things and then being gone for a week off in whereever.  Besides, if some *** really wants to outbid me, so what?  Seller's gain and winner's loss really; and likely the winner wants it more than me.  I'm there to try to get the things I can't get from MB Klein, Walthers, or other hobby stores directly.

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Posted by navyman636 on Saturday, February 12, 2011 2:53 AM

I think the message is that "caveat emptor" still means 'let the buyer beware.'

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Posted by dgwinup on Saturday, February 12, 2011 1:20 AM

don7 quote:

"Good to know your stratagy as you are attempting to rip off the guilable.

So you think people are too stupid to check out the other listings and see you are the same seller."

 

Well, yes, they are.  That's not being mean, it's merely pointing out the obvious.

Too many buyers on e-Bay DON'T do any research.  I have no idea why.  It's a simple matter to view other listings for an item to see what it is selling for or check the ended listings to see what the item has sold for in the past.  It's also incredibly easy to look up an item online to see what a retailer is selling it for.  The people who don't do their homework are going to pay more, often more than the item is worth or what the item sells for new at online and brick-and-mortar shops.

I don't think Texas Zepher is taking advantage of people.  He is taking advantage of the way people think and react.  If the people were intelligent buyers, he wouldn't be able to succeed with that process.

I am both a buyer and seller on e-Bay and have been for many years.  I buy things I want or need and sell things that I no longer have a use for.  When I buy, I'm looking for the cheapest cost.  I always factor shipping charges into my bid.  For most of what I buy, I use a sniping program and I usually factor in the cost of sniping in my bid.

When I sell, I usually list items with a 99 cent starting bid.  Remember, I'm trying to get rid of something I don't want or need.  I'm not trying to make a killing.  When I list items, I research shipping costs.  Most of my auctions use Priority Mail, but I will add an option if it is justified.  Priority Mail usually works out to be about the same cost as Parcel Post.  I will use First Class Mail and Media Mail where appropriate.

What makes me scratch my head in wonder are the buyers who bid on auctions early.  They are relying on e-Bay's Proxy Bid system to be the high bidder at the end of the auction.  This rarely works because there is someone who is always willing to pay more.  Any hard bid entered on e-Bay can, and usually will, be outbid during the course of the auction.  All early bids do is drive up the price of the item, often to a level over retail as has already been discussed.  People don't seem to realize that being the high bidder during the auction means nothing.  To win, you have to be the high bidder at the END of the auction.

I'm in the process of converting my N scale cars to Micro Trains couplers.  I'm using MTL's trucks with couplers.  I can buy them all day at a hobby shop for $42-45 for 10 pair.  Why would I pay that amount OR MORE on e-Bay?  Yet when I see them listed starting at 99 cents, the bidding goes up and up over the course of a few days until they are about the same price as the hobby shop.  Sometimes MORE because the bidder didn't factor in the shipping charges.   (Don't even ask me about the sellers who list these things for MORE than the hobby shops and then add $8-10 in shipping charges!  Anyone who buys these has more money that brains.)

Now, I know someone is going to chime in and state that he always uses Proxy bidding and he always wins whatever he bid on.  Fine.  To me, all that means is that 1) you are paying more than you need to, 2) you are paying more than the item is worth, and/or 3) no one else wanted the item at ANY price! 

If you are comfortable using Proxy bidding, that's good for you.  If, like me, you snipe a lot, that's good, too.  If you're losing a lot of your bids, don't complain that sniping is "unfair".  That's like saying you always use a hacksaw to cut track because using a Dremel tool is "unfair".  Use what your comfortable with.  If it isn't giving you the results you want, change the way you operate.

Okay, my turn on the soapbox is over.  Who's next?

Darrell, quiet...for now
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Posted by don7 on Friday, February 11, 2011 10:36 PM

Texas Zepher

 don7:
Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?
No, that is another marketing trick.   I have a bunch of the same items for sale.  I put one on a "buy it now" or "starting bid" of a really high price.   Then I list the other one starting a $0.99.    People doing research will see the really high value of the one (especially if I've been continually re-listing it so it shows up in history a lot) and think they are getting a good deal when they win the other one for only 75% of the high priced one.

Good to know your stratagy as you are attempting to rip off the guilable.

So you think people are too stupid to check out the other listings and see you are the same seller.

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Posted by Hoomi on Friday, February 11, 2011 9:46 PM

don7

Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

I think I answered that question in my previous post, with the P.T. Barnum comment. There are just a lot of suckers out there, and people who don't bother to do any research before buying.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 11, 2011 9:45 PM

don7
Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

No, that is another marketing trick.   I have a bunch of the same items for sale.  I put one on a "buy it now" or "starting bid" of a really high price.   Then I list the other one starting a $0.99.    People doing research will see the really high value of the one (especially if I've been continually re-listing it so it shows up in history a lot) and think they are getting a good deal when they win the other one for only 75% of the high priced one.

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Posted by southernpacificgs4 on Friday, February 11, 2011 7:56 PM

Some times the charges used by ebay sellers for sending items are high or exaggerated.

I am a ebay buyer and seller

The following is an example of how sometimes I have to charge high charges for sending items oversea, I live in Europe.

The postal services in my country are working with flat rates for certain weights and destinations.

The rates are given for sending parcels to the USA

ex: Standard ( no possibility to following parcel on line and NO compensation in case of lost or damage)

0 till 350grs:  €9,60 (+/-13.25$)

+350 till 1kg: €16,00(+/-22.08$)

+1kg till 2kg: €32.00(+/-44.16)

It becomes more crazy when I want to offer some security: following parcel online and compensation in case of lost and damage

for a parcel between 0 and 5kgs the flat rate postal charges are for sending a parcel to the USA: €52,00(+/-71.76$).

I can not speak for rates used in the USA but the rates used by the postal services in my country are exaggerated.

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Posted by don7 on Friday, February 11, 2011 7:08 PM

Why would vendors set bids over the manufacturers suggested retail price? Do they think they can just list an item and it will then sell?

http://cgi.ebay.ca/Mini-Metals-30193-1959-Ford-Fairlane-Torch-Red-HO-MIB-/300525292732?pt=Model_RR_Trains&hash=item45f8b40cbc

Plus super high S&H charges. This item belongs in an padded envelope not a Priority cardboard box.

 

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Posted by Hoomi on Friday, February 11, 2011 6:58 PM

jamnest

I too am amazed at the buyers who are purchasing new items on Ebay when they could buy the same item from an online retailer for much less.

Even moreso at those who pay more for an item than they would pay for it from a local brick-and-mortar store.

P.T. Barnum said it best. There's one born every minute.

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, February 11, 2011 4:11 PM

farrellaa
I use Ebay all the time and have come to the realization that many who bid on items get 'caught up in the  bidding excitment' and don't care as much about what they paid but more about "I won the bidding war!".

I don't know why that is a realization.  That is the whole point of and psychology underlying the "auction" method for selling things.

farrellaa
Another point, many charge high shipping and low starting bid because you are paying a fee to Ebay based on the selling and listing value and not the shipping cost. list at $.99 and charge $12.95 shipping, you pay the fee on the $.99, not the $12.95.

Yup, I'm surprised most people don't realize this.  If this is ones "home business" there is no tax on the shipping either.

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Posted by jamnest on Friday, February 11, 2011 3:59 PM

I use Ebay a lot.  I am building a fleet for my layout, primarily from MDC/Roundhouse and Athearn BB cars.  I do a lot of research and set my price.  (Set it and forget it.)  If I get outbid OK.  I am aware of the market and research items before I bid.  I consider price and postage verses the price and postage from an online retailer.

I have gotten a lot of good buys on Ebay, and some times not so good buys, however that was my fault. 

I too am amazed at the buyers who are purchasing new items on Ebay when they could buy the same item from an online retailer for much less.

Jim, Modeling the Kansas City Southern Lines in HO scale.

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Posted by apache fan on Friday, February 11, 2011 3:41 PM

I  use ebay a lot, and the thing is to know the hobby shop prices, then compare, and especially watch the shipping costs, I always check that first, so people on ebay are crooked sellers and shipping is way more than the cost of the product. by watching costs one can obtain stuff only available on ebay, and save money, but one has to be careful, it's not called evil bay for nothing.

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