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Easy Sharpening Up of your Passenger Car Interiors.

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Posted by Flashwave on Thursday, July 31, 2008 1:05 PM
 wjstix wrote:
 Sierra Man wrote:

 

  Hello every one,

   I'am new to passenger train modeling and have been getting Con-Cor 72 ft. Daylight

cars as gifts. They have no interiors or lights. Can I get these anywhere? I can't even

figure out how to take them apart. Anybody have an answer? other than getting different cars.

Good news: Palace Car Company makes interiors for these cars, they're not "one piece" plastic ones like Rivarossi or IHC cars have, but they're not hard to do either.

Palace Car Co.

I think the Con-Cor roofs snap off?? Walthers cars have tabs that have like little hooks on the end; I usually snip the "hooks" off and just leave the tabs. There's enough friction to hold the roof in place without the hooks locking it on.

Con Cor cars have clear plastic tabs in the bottom of the car attached to the windows. Probably under the trucks, the oone I'm looking at doesn't have hers. It's a similar, but harder, setup like the IHCs and Spectrums. You have to squeeze these and pull up on the roof until the tabs are above the floor, ie, can't relock, and then work with the other end. I suggest the use of flathead screwdrivers, but don't gouge out a side of you r hand liek I have. Also park one in the end you just freed, between roof and carbody, so you don't undo progress. The roof and windows are joined as one piece.

-Morgan

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, August 4, 2008 7:24 AM

Hi crew,

This one is the interior of a Milwaukee Road Hiawatha Lounge Car, 1940s.  prototype photo credit: Chicago, Milwaukee, St. Paul, and Pacific.

The wood paneling next to the windows was a nice, classy touch. 

Hey, Stick out tongue for those of you that already own the HO Hiawatha train, this would be a nice color reference if your interiors didn't come painted.  photo location: Suncoast Model Railroader's Club-Largo Florida 2008. This beautiful train belongs to the club's president, Jim Langston.

 Wink

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Mr. SP on Monday, August 4, 2008 10:38 AM
Pikestuff makes coach seats and Precision Scale has some interior fittings and seats too. The Palace Car line is excellent as well. be sure to add your weight before adding the interior in such a way that it is hidden
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Posted by Flashwave on Monday, August 4, 2008 12:24 PM

 Mr. SP wrote:
Pikestuff makes coach seats and Precision Scale has some interior fittings and seats too. The Palace Car line is excellent as well. be sure to add your weight before adding the interior in such a way that it is hidden

Whoah! Don't forget to figure the weight of the interior in the car before you add weight. Or you may end up with "too heavy" a car.

-Morgan

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Posted by Flashwave on Thursday, July 15, 2010 7:12 PM

AntonioFP45
Hey guys, found another photo!

There are some NJT fans on this forum.CooCool" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif">WinWink" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif">

A retired ex-Santa Fe 1950s streamlined "heritage" coach used by New Jersey Transit. Seats are a bright blue. The material looks similar to the tough vinyl used on modern school buses so it's safe to assume that Santa Fe's upholstery dissappeard years ago.

The closest color approximation, IMHO, would be Conrail Blue , which I think is available in Acrylic and Solvent model paint brands. Big SmilBig Smile" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_big.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_big.gif">CooCool" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif">WinWink" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif">

High Greens!

Hey, I'm going to bump an old thread, with an older post being quoted.

Here's an interior shot from the Indiana Transportation musuem running 8 of the 1937 SF coaches, which also graced the NJT. The seats we use are closer to a Model Master Turquoise. I do not know for sure if theses are NJT seats or if ITM recovered them when recieved in the 80s, but they otherwise match your description og them. The SF upholstry is still underneath a few of the coverings, and at one time, I was told the seats were BLAZE orange...

Does anyone know of the seat color for a GM&O Sleeper? Since I'm not thatr detail oriented, I mostly want to paint the seats and furniture in a Branchline car and leave the walls the same, though if the doors were a seperate color I'd do them as well. Also, I've already put the walls in. If they were on the sprue, I'd be more willing to paint them as well. oops.

-Morgan

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Posted by Charlie on Thursday, July 15, 2010 10:41 PM

Flashwave

AntonioFP45
Hey guys, found another photo!

There are some NJT fans on this forum.CooCool" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif">WinWink" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif">

A retired ex-Santa Fe 1950s streamlined "heritage" coach used by New Jersey Transit. Seats are a bright blue. The material looks similar to the tough vinyl used on modern school buses so it's safe to assume that Santa Fe's upholstery dissappeard years ago.

The closest color approximation, IMHO, would be Conrail Blue , which I think is available in Acrylic and Solvent model paint brands. Big SmilBig Smile" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_big.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_big.gif">CooCool" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_cool.gif">WinWink" src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif" mce_src="http://cs.trains.com/trccs/emoticons/icon_smile_wink.gif">

High Greens!

Hey, I'm going to bump an old thread, with an older post being quoted.

Here's an interior shot from the Indiana Transportation musuem running 8 of the 1937 SF coaches, which also graced the NJT. The seats we use are closer to a Model Master Turquoise. I do not know for sure if theses are NJT seats or if ITM recovered them when recieved in the 80s, but they otherwise match your description og them. The SF upholstry is still underneath a few of the coverings, and at one time, I was told the seats were BLAZE orange...

Does anyone know of the seat color for a GM&O Sleeper? Since I'm not thatr detail oriented, I mostly want to paint the seats and furniture in a Branchline car and leave the walls the same, though if the doors were a seperate color I'd do them as well. Also, I've already put the walls in. If they were on the sprue, I'd be more willing to paint them as well. oops.

 

The color of the seats should be a seafoam blue/green shade and in heavy fabric not vinyl based. Lets not forget about RedCap line for car interiors which happen to be the best there is. Also on another note. Walthers will be releasing the re-releasing the Super Chief cars plated and will also be releasing a PS Regal series sleeper.

Charlie

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

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Posted by Texas Zepher on Friday, July 16, 2010 3:09 PM

locomotive3
I would suspect the problem is with the interior and not with Preiser.

I think it is both.  A real person can move a chair back from a table, they can sqeeze in, they can suck in their gut.  Those little plastic people can't flex nor move the fixed chairs away from the table.

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Posted by csmith9474 on Friday, July 16, 2010 4:06 PM

Charlie

The color of the seats should be a seafoam blue/green shade and in heavy fabric not vinyl based. Lets not forget about RedCap line for car interiors which happen to be the best there is. Also on another note. Walthers will be releasing the re-releasing the Super Chief cars plated and will also be releasing a PS Regal series sleeper.

Charlie

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

 

That is GREAT news on the Regal sleeper (too bad we can't get some Palm 10/6s out of them as well). I have not heard about the re-release of the Super Chief cars, or the addition of the Regal 4/4/2. When is this supposed to happen? Wouldn't you know, after all the work I did with the brass car sides, they would sneak this in on me!!

Smitty
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Posted by Charlie on Friday, July 16, 2010 4:49 PM

csmith9474

Charlie

The color of the seats should be a seafoam blue/green shade and in heavy fabric not vinyl based. Lets not forget about RedCap line for car interiors which happen to be the best there is. Also on another note. Walthers will be releasing the re-releasing the Super Chief cars plated and will also be releasing a PS Regal series sleeper.

Charlie

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

 

That is GREAT news on the Regal sleeper (too bad we can't get some Palm 10/6s out of them as well). I have not heard about the re-release of the Super Chief cars, or the addition of the Regal 4/4/2. When is this supposed to happen? Wouldn't you know, after all the work I did with the brass car sides, they would sneak this in on me!!

 

Smitty, the Regal Sleepers are due out in Dec 2010. I may get one for my BNSF Business train even though it is a PS car. BTW, The Great Overland Station here in Topeka will getting a former ATSF Super business car and should be on display sometime in August.

MP 53 on the BNSF Topeka Sub

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Posted by csmith9474 on Saturday, July 17, 2010 11:26 AM

I really need to get out there. Sounds like a good excuse to pack up the fam and take a quick road trip!!

Smitty
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Posted by dcfixer on Friday, August 13, 2010 3:22 PM

AntonioFP45
Overall, something different to with experiment guys. If you take your time, it's very hard to screw up and so easy to come up with impressive results!


Give it a shot and post your results! Wink

Enjoy!Big Smile

 

Yeah, I know it's an old thread, but it's a great one!Thumbs UpSmile

 A little work on these factory interiors really makes a difference.  People love to look in the windows at the museum.  Little kids are always pointing out and even waving at the people.

Didn't break any roof tabs this time, but did break a side tab.  I don't think Walthers intended for these cars to come apart and go back together.  If they did...there's got to be an easier way.

Had a little fun with the camera and computer, too.

Thanks, Antonio for the inspiration and encouragement.


 

DC

 

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Posted by wholeman on Friday, August 13, 2010 3:30 PM

dcfixer,

Awesome job on the interior.  I gotta ask, did you cut the doors out or were they already that way.  I cut out the doors of my Walthers Superliner sleepers.  It was a little difficult, but I probably wouldn't do it again.

Will

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Posted by Motley on Friday, August 13, 2010 5:18 PM

DC,

How exactly do you take these things apart? I'm getting some of those same pullmans, and I want to install lights and detail out the interiors.

I don't want to break anything.

Michael


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Posted by dcfixer on Saturday, August 14, 2010 12:49 AM

 Thanks, wholeman, for the kind words. Yes, I cut the doors out myself.  The trick I found was to make the first couple of cuts shallow, scribe-like along an entire edge to give a line for the blade to follow.  Then slowly increase the pressure on each subsequent cut along the line.  It usually takes me about 6 passes with a new/sharp #11 blade to get through the plastic.  I do one edge at a time.  After the piece is out, I square and smooth the edges with the blade and sand paper.

Motley,

The top, ends and side pieces are attached to an inside frame with holes using locking tabs.  It's hard for me to describe exactly how to get those tabs out of their holes.  All I can do is give my general method for that, but I can give an order of parts removal that should help. The whole process is not easy, and not for the timid.

The tabs: By using two flat blade jeweler's screw drivers I generally work tabs out by gently prying between the piece and the frame close to the tab while gently moving the tab on the inside to clear the hole.  Chances are a tab will break at sometime, but it can be glued back on.  How do I know this?Whistling

I start by removing the trucks, couplers and ALL the screws from the bottom piece.  This gets things loose.  While holding on to both ends, I slightly twist the car till an edge or a couple of tabs of the top piece pop loose. This gives some access to other top piece tabs.  I gently push down and in on the top tabs to get them loose.  After the top is off, I remove the two end pieces.  Then one of the sides.  Then I remove the bottom while paying close attention to the metal electrical contact strips on one of the ends- careful not to bend them. Next the other side.  Finally the center partition/room piece can be removed by slightly pulling the frame away from it and pushing up on the partition/room piece.

Some experience is strongly advised.   I practiced on some cars that I got cheap, on sale for spare parts. Take your time, have good lighting, use opti-visors or something, and study the tab orientation carefully before operating.  There's no guarantees here, only my experience.  Hope this helps a little.  You can also search here for Walthers top (or roof) removal.  There's been a lot of discussion about this.

If you develop some better way to work these models, please let all of us know by posting here.Smile

DC

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Sunday, August 22, 2010 9:10 AM

DC Fixer, guys,

Thanks for giving this thread a "shot in the arm" here in 2010.  DC Fixer, it can't be stated enough that your meticulous, high quality work is outstanding!  You are a craftsman. Captain

 -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys, this vid clip may be helpful. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FQU1P7sJH4&feature=related

Shows the interior of a 1950s VIA Rail observation-dome unit. Notice the use of florescent lights, and cool, calming colors.  

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by dcfixer on Sunday, August 22, 2010 8:43 PM

 Thanks, Antonio, and thanks for the vid tip

 You are too kind.  There's some folks on this forum that take modeling detail to a much higher degree, and I love looking at it.  Maybe I'll get there some day.  I got a lot of cars to do.

 Had some more camera and computer fun this weekend:SmileSmile

Take care.

DC

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Posted by Motley on Sunday, August 22, 2010 10:42 PM

DC,

Thanks for the tips on how to remove the roof. I detailed some City Cars like yours today. I painted the interiors. Dark Brown on the walls and floor, and tan on the seats. I also added some passengers.

Thanks to this thread, I almost didn't even bother to detail my passenger cars, but it was really easy to do. Of course I can't even come close to the amount of detail work you did, but for me it's a good start.

 

Michael


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Posted by dcfixer on Monday, August 23, 2010 10:22 AM

 Way to go, Michael, and you are most welcome.Smile

For me, it's kinda of depressing to see an empty, dark passenger car rolling down the track, and a little paint, lighting and some passengers makes a big difference. Did you mask and spray, or hand paint?

Here's a little, easy detail for sleepers.  I use silver reflective tape for mirrors. It's quick and adds a little more depth with the reflections.  You can search and find the tape pretty easy on the net.

Is the interior lighting incandescent?  By matching the exterior flood lighting to the interior lighting and color balance to that, the colors will be more accurate in photos.  I have spent a lot of time finding LEDs and constructing flood lamps that match my filtered interior LED lighting.  It's been a bit of a pain, but I'm finally getting some satisfying results without having to color adjust with a computer.  There was a point in my early photographic attempts where the colors were so messed up that I couldn't even correct with the computer.  Lighting is critical.

Keep up the good work, keep us posted and have fun.

DC

 

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Posted by dcfixer on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 2:20 PM

This car marks a milestone for me Big Smile, and can't think of better place to post about it than Antonio's insightful and inspirational thread.   All my sleepers are done, this  6-6-4 was my last  "easy sharpening up Walters..." interiors and I won't be reviving this thread anymore.  The rest of my UP interiors will be scratch built, and it will take considerably longer for me to finish each one. 

Thanks for looking.

DC

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Posted by trainsBuddy on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 3:30 PM

Impressive work. I never went as far as painting the interiors- I practiced removing sides and ended up braking tabs on my test cars - so I left it alone. I did not even attempted painting with car sides in a way. I did do a lot of model population - but with interior painted I must say it looks mighty impressive. Awesome job! It take me forever to put grab irons and populate interior - I can't imagine how long it take to hand paint it like that.

"Thanks to the Interstate Highway System, it is now possible to travel from coast to coast without seeing anything." - Charles Kuralt
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Posted by Texas Zepher on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 7:55 PM

mondotrains
There are little "wells" in the base of some of the cars where lead shot can be added. Just place them in the wells ...

Be careful with the wells (underside of utility boxes under the car).  Many times the wells are not evenly distributed left to right and one can end up with a car that leans over to one side.

 

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Posted by dcfixer on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 9:27 PM

Thanks for the kind words, trainsBuddy.

I discovered that removing the screws on the bottom first gets things loosened up.  Then twisting the car gently from the ends pops enough  tabs loose on the roof piece to make it easier to get it off.  If the car has curved skirts, I remove all the screws - couplers, and the 3 body screws.  The bottom piece will stay in there till a side is removed.  If the car doesn't have any kind of skirting, then I leave the center screw in.  That way the electrical buss work on the bottom and around the end piece doesn't get screwed up  when the bottom falls loose.   Ask me how I know this. 

Maybe that will help a little.  Don't give up.  There are a lot of great people here that are willing and able to help.  Ask me how I know this.Wink

DC

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Posted by Motley on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 9:34 PM

Ya I actually started to get the hang of it, and was able to paint interiors and add passengers and lighting to 6 cars so far. I still have a few more to go.

Michael


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Posted by dcfixer on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 9:39 PM

Pictures please, Motley.Smile

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Posted by wholeman on Wednesday, November 3, 2010 10:58 PM

I've got some pics of some of the painted interiors of my Walthers Superliners.  They aren't great, but they show the detail.

This is one of the sleepers.

This is the diner

The lounge

One of the coaches

Will

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 4, 2010 1:39 AM

Here you go DC, some pics of mine. The UP City Streamliners. I was too lazy to drag out the tripod, low light and shaking camera, but you get the idea.

Michael


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Posted by dcfixer on Thursday, November 4, 2010 8:37 AM

Will and Michael:  Thanks for the pics.  Just lighting, painting the furnishings/partitions and populating makes a big difference, IMO.    I think painting the interior of the sides with the factory windows installed is very difficult and useless.  The windows are the first things that go when I get the car apart, and I replace them with polycarbonate.  They are "flush" on both sides.  It's not as difficult as it seems - just takes some time.  I can now do both sides of a sleeper in about 4 hours.

Will: looks like you got a pretty good white balance there.  LED lighting?  Decent framing, too.  I think I see some very interesting detail there, like seat head rest covers.  I would like to be able to see it better, but the focusing makes it difficult.   To take pictures with the camera physically very close to the subject requires a good macro lens.  My shots are taken with a simple digital camera, flower (close up) on, and from about a foot away so it focuses.  Then I crop on the computer to zoom in.   It's not as good has having a decent macro lens, but it's clear enough to make out general interior color and detail.  Tripod and shutter timer are very worth while things to have and use.

Michael:  Every time I see your station night time pic, I enjoy staring at it.  That's a great pic, man.  Thumbs Up

Is that incandescent lighting in the cars?   It looks like you got some nice color combination, but again, it's difficult to see.  I don't know what your camera is like, but maybe illuminating a white card with the same type and intensity of your interior lighting right before you take the shot will set the white balance.  Or, have the illuminated white card somewhere in the fore/back ground where it won't be in the shot, but the camera will pick it up enough and balance on it.   I don't know if any of this will work - just some food for thought.

I don't want to offend anyone, and I hope my criticism is constructive and useful. I think what you guys are doing is a big improvement over the bland factory interior.  Keep up the good work, and thanks for sharing.

DC

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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 4, 2010 9:09 AM

Thanks DC. I appreciate the feedback!

Can you tell us more about how you replaced the windows? With step by step pics? Why wonder your windows look so much clearer! Man that's great!

Yes the lighting is incandescent.

I'll work on the camera. Heck I'm actually thinking of getting a better camera, mine is too cheap for good macro shots. I'm looking at getting the Canon G10. It's a cross between a point and shoot and a DSLR. It has manual settings. I do have a tripod already.

Thanks,

Michael

Michael


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Posted by Motley on Thursday, November 4, 2010 9:26 AM

OK I just took some pics with more backlighting.

Michael


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Posted by dcfixer on Thursday, November 4, 2010 10:46 AM

Michael,

Great!  Much better! Big Smile You can tell that the white balance is still off by looking at the roof.  The gray is greenish.  Hopefully you can figure a way around that.  The trick is to illuminate the outside with the same light as the inside, and then get a good white balance.  Unfortunately, my little camera doesn't have manual white balance, so I have had to spend considerable time and money designing and building LED flood lights for my shots.  Next camera will DEFINITELY have manual white balance.

Maybe my windows replacement method will be worth sharing and discussing for some.  I'll work on a new post.

DC

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