How do we keep the hobby going or should I say, keep it from dying? There are not a lot of younger people (the older I get the higher age limit for younger gets) into the hobby?
I have been to a few "open houses", swap meets, and train shows in my time. Is it my imagination or are most of the participants males at least 50 years or older? When I do see young adults with their children at these events, most "hosts" treat them like they are a bother. I have a 6 years old nephew who love trains. His parents take him to ever railroad related activity within 100 miles. He is well behaved and does not touch anything unless the adults give him permission. He does ask a lot of questions as children are prone to do. Unfortunately, he is often ignored. I see this with other young people with or without children. What is the matter with you people?? These are the folks who are interested enough in this great hobby to show up at events and some of you will not even talk with them or worse, act like you want them to go away!! We need more people in the hobby so that manufacturers will make more products and at an affordable price.
Craig North Carolina
Hopefully we are all going to reach 50 (or like me, already reached it). If that is the starting age, we'll cultivate them. How do we get young folks into the hobby? Taking our children and grandchildren along to a show to expose them. Give them things to do when you are working on your layout (granddaughter helped with puff ball trees today) and let them run the trains once in awhile. Set up a layout where the younger folks can see it, especially around the holidays.
'taint going to be easy, but if we show folks what fun we are having, some will follow along.
Have fun,
Richard
Rules for hobbyists interacting with non-modelers.
1) be polite
2) be courtious
3) take a bath
4) brush your teeth
5) comb your hair
6) wear clean clothes (somewhat stylish is a plus)
7) don't stand in the middle of the aisle and BS with your buddies, move to the side and out of the way so those of us that are actually looking to buy can.
8) if you are not the social type, that's okay, just don't talk to anyone.
9) If a man has an attractive lady with him, don't oogle like you've been locked up for 10 years, get out of the basement and find your own lady. Pretty women are out there, but not in the local LHS or the club. Please follow 1-6 for assistance in the pursuit.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
The local version of a national train show had hundreds of children there. We have a few women and some younger people in our division. There seems to be some hope.
My club has several junior members under 16 YO. They enjoy the hobby and are very knowledgeable. On the other hand we did a show at a Boy Scout event last spring celebrating 100 years of scouting. Those little B's did everything they could to cause problems like shaking the layout, putting sweating soft drink cups on the rails in front of moving trains, causing derailments, throwing switches and many other things to disrupt the layouts operations, all while their scout leaders looked on. Never again for them.
AikidomasterHow do we keep the hobby going or should I say, keep it from dying? There are not a lot of younger people into the hobby?
VISUAL STIMULATION...Let me explain. We have a MR Club in my area. They had a city owned building for their club. They got booted for reasons unknown to me,based on the newspaper article I believe it was political. Anyway they ended up at one of our local malls. Their space has big store front windows,you can't miss it. I went to visit it about 3 months after the move and one of the club members said they had a dramatic increase in membership because people found out what MR really is all about because they were exposed to the public instead of being in their private little clubhouse so to speak. Another episode was in spring of 2010, our guest/little bathroom toilet overflowed during the night and ruined the floors in the bedroom and my train room. The water clean-up crew came out to do their thing and I got one of the employees interested in MR by seeing my layout in progress. And I had a co-worker come by one day saw my train room because I left the door open and he got interested and is now building his own layout....VISUAL STIMULATION...everybody loves the miniature worlds.
Personally, I keep buying train stuff, and when the neighborhood kids are over playing with my kids, I'll invite them to try running a train or planting some trees.
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Well, ya i agree with all of you. I go to the LHS about twice a month (whenever my dad will take me) and i rarely see kids in there and when i do it is usually kids getting scenery stuff for school projects. When i was down at the San Diego Model Railroad Club this summer, i saw a fair amount of kids. The members there couldnt have been nicer. A man was going to get an ice cream but when i asked him a question he forgot the ice cream to help me, he then took us on a tour inside the layout and couldnt have been nicer. Thanks!
I thnk there are really three challenges.
Attracting fresh blood to the hobby -- of ANY age. There are not many enthusiastic train evangelists out there. The World's Greatest Hobby ambassador program was a step in the right direction but it takes a certain personality type to really do a good job. The population you attract from is one challenge, but people to do the attracting is an even bigger issue. The LHS has a role to play but ... they can only deal with those who come into the LHS of their own free will. Train shows and displays are great, but who follows up -- who mingles with the crowd handing out literature?
Youth. Most of us are model railroaders because we retained a level of interest either from when we had toy trains, or from when we liked to build plastic models of cars or planes or monsters. Frankly I think every boy I knew as a kid liked to do one or the other, and often both. Result - a huge pool of people with potential interest and even some skills that could either carry over directly to model railroading, or could be readily reawakened after a few years off. Now if you want youth you have to create the interest from scratch and that is a totally different thing than retaining or converting interest. I think there are two and perhaps three generations of men who did not have trains or do much plastic model building as kids. They are an important (and large) potential target for converts.
Maintaining enthusiasm. I think this is the biggest challenge of all. I know so many model railroaders who do NOT go to NMRA meets or conventions, nor to train shows or displays, who claim to be modelers but never really progress on the layout, and who do not subscribe to any of the remaining magazines. I think there is a massive amount of train fatigue out there. Part of the problem (and I do not want to restart various threads that have grown tiresome over the years) is the high cost of trains and what it has done to the casual modeler, the dabbler, and why they no longer even drop into the local hobby shop and snoop around any more. I suspect there is also a blockage for those whose next step in the hobby would in the past have been to introduce cab control and block wiring and who are now somewhat paralyzed by the costs and learning curves of DCC -- so they do neither. And maybe another reason is that anyone wanting to model the modern era not only needs to buy the current expensive models (see above) but also everything is so large that they feel they can never have a large enough layout to do it justice (and they may be right).
I don't know what logjam needs to break first but I am not convinced that a massive influx of youth is either in the cards, or is really what is needed. We need more modelers of any age.
Dave Nelson
Even if you reluctantly conclude -- as I think we have to conclude -- that there will never again be an era where nearly every boy had a toy train, or at least liked to build plastic models of some kind, cars or planes or monsters or whatever
Guys,Stricky as food for thought.
The 60s-Slot cars will slow the growth of the hobby.
The 70s-The hobby is dying.
The 80s-Video games will kill the hobby/Dungeons & Dragons will kill the hobby.
The 90s-Video games is still killing the hobby/Roll playing games is killing the hobby.
2000-2005 Cheap train sets will kill the hobby/high prices will kill the hobby/No time for hobbies..
2005-2010 No youth entering the hobby/hobby will be saved by DCC/high prices still killing the hobby/lack of kits will kill the hobby.
There may have been more over the years that would help speed the demise of our hobby.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
I realize these are in the future, but you neglected:
12/21/2012 - the end of the Mayan long calendar and the subsequent apocalypse.
If that's not enough to do the hobby in, there's always
2029 or 2036 - Collision with the asteroid Apophis: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/
Andre
andrechapelon 2005-2010 No youth entering the hobby/hobby will be saved by DCC/high prices still killing the hobby/lack of kits will kill the hobby. There may have been more over the years that would help speed the demise of our hobby. I realize these are in the future, but you neglected: 12/21/2012 - the end of the Mayan long calendar and the subsequent apocalypse. If that's not enough to do the hobby in, there's always 2029 or 2036 - Collision with the asteroid Apophis: http://neo.jpl.nasa.gov/apophis/ Andre
If we don't have polar reversal first...http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/29dec_magneticfield/
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
My 12 year old son is a 3rd generation MRR as well as Lifescout heading to Eagle and makes the better sports teams. I see several reasons why the younger generation is not as much attracted to a lot of things as I've been a coach and Scout leader for years.
1. Boys are by nature more inclined to learning with a hands on approach. I've seen this over and over again. Fully obstruct that inclination and the result won't be positive for them.
2. Going to a more RTR vs kit approach takes away some of their ability to apply their natural inclinations as per 1 above. If you want boys interested, understand that they will want to touch and if you don't want them touching the layout, give them a kit or something to do. That's why for his last locomotive we had to pull together parts to make a kit. That does not build loyalty to a brand either.
3. Boys can be made/encouraged to behave, but it helps to have a parent who understands good behavior and how to make it happen. Unfortunately for me that has meant I've had to pick and chose my battles to the point that I regret not reaching out enough.
4. A lot more boys are a part of single parent homes and so while there is a big pull for many different opportunities to spend time while there is also an opposite pull with available parent time to help with those things. MRR requires more detailed instruction and supervision than say watching TV or playing video games. I know of several ladies, but MRR is more of a male activity and fathers are not able to see their children as much as they would like. And a lot of times it's not just quality time, but quantity that is needed when you're talking about building a hobby.
5. My son brings a few friends over to play trains (no they don't use the schedules, they just play for now) and sometimes I wince. They like the computer interface, DCC and sound--those things help bridge to that generation. They do occassionally have accidents and things get broken. I ask them to repair the item (usually with my help) and that has helped them to become more careful as well as tech them skills. I have to keep my patience and remember that I can't take these with me and so they will be his anyway. They also like building things.
6. My wife also makes it fun with cookies and so forth.
7. I believe even on the successful video games the boys are building their world.
8. There are other reasons for sure, but I don't want to keep going and making this post unreadable.
It would be interesting to know the age of those on this forum. I think there's around 75,000 forum members, my bet is that most are at or over 50. I'm 52. Also, I haven't been active on this forum except the last month, but my sense is that most don't have younger children/teenagers(18 or younger) either.
dknelson Maintaining enthusiasm. I think this is the biggest challenge of all. I know so many model railroaders who do NOT go to NMRA meets or conventions, nor to train shows or displays, who claim to be modelers but never really progress on the layout, and who do not subscribe to any of the remaining magazines. I think there is a massive amount of train fatigue out there. Part of the problem (and I do not want to restart various threads that have grown tiresome over the years) is the high cost of trains and what it has done to the casual modeler, the dabbler, and why they no longer even drop into the local hobby shop and snoop around any more. I suspect there is also a blockage for those whose next step in the hobby would in the past have been to introduce cab control and block wiring and who are now somewhat paralyzed by the costs and learning curves of DCC -- so they do neither. And maybe another reason is that anyone wanting to model the modern era not only needs to buy the current expensive models (see above) but also everything is so large that they feel they can never have a large enough layout to do it justice (and they may be right).
Dave,
This is a very good point. I would add, that many of the publications and other "faces" of model railroading tend to tout the benefits of multiple operators, or the social aspect of the hobby. The problem is that most people who buy trains sets or get started in the hobby, do so with the intention of operating their trains by themselves. They do not think about buying trains with the idea that they are going to invite 2 or 3 friends over to run them. They don't start off in the hobby for the social aspect of it. That comes later.
They may lose enthusiasm if they are bombared with the message that the hobby becomes truley fulfilling only when it is shared with others. They may be struggling to maintain interest, then get the message that they have to invite someone over, or join a club, or share their hobby with others in order to take that next step. I'm sure most folks get bored with a train set after a while. What they are looking for is a way to expand their system without needing to have 2 or 3 others around to run it. They may visit a club, or a show, or surf the net, or read MRR. If they get the impression that enthusiasm for the hobby requires a group effort, they may say that the hobby is not for them.
Perhaps club members, and publications, who are representing the "face" of the hobby, should help relate to the new modeler the aspects of the club layout that can be done at home, by himself. And how he can take the concepts of the larger layout and reduce them to a more manageable situation for the home layout he wants to expand.
I don't purport to know the solution, its just my observation.
- Douglas
I'd forgotten about that one.
As well as the eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano. http://www.earthmountainview.com/yellowstone/yellowstone.htm
Or the Indonesian super volcano: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/supervolcano/others/others_02.html
My take on the whole issue is that the hobby will die because everybody in the hobby will become so consumed with arguing whether or not it will die that no modeling will get done.
Not a good time to bring a locomotive kit to the market. .
andrechapelon If we don't have polar reversal first...http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/29dec_magneticfield/ I'd forgotten about that one. As well as the eruption of the Yellowstone super volcano. http://www.earthmountainview.com/yellowstone/yellowstone.htm Or the Indonesian super volcano: http://dsc.discovery.com/convergence/supervolcano/others/others_02.html My take on the whole issue is that the hobby will die because everybody in the hobby will become so consumed with arguing whether or not it will die that no modeling will get done. Not a good time to bring a locomotive kit to the market. . Andre
...this has been a strange weekend hasn't it?
I mean, look at the DC/DCC threads, the cost of the hobby going up threads, companies not existing threads....sheeesh!
this has been a strange weekend hasn't it?
Ya just gotta go off, get yourself a beer and then sit down and try to drink that beer between fits of uncontrollable laughter. It's a thankless task. Most of the beer doesn't even make it anywhere near your stomach, but is instead expelled at high velocity through your nose.
Does DCC lead to a reduced libido?
Do hemorrhoids lead to building layouts at higher levels which make it less tempting (or practical) to sit down? Do hemorrhoids really have anything to do with it since it's so hard for old geezers to stand up?
BTW, have you ordered your Gulfstream V yet? The only thing more lucrative than the model railroad market is selling ice cubes to the Inuit.
blownout cylinder ...this has been a strange weekend hasn't it? I mean, look at the DC/DCC threads, the cost of the hobby going up threads, companies not existing threads....sheeesh!
Man, the forum was boring during the holidays. You know what's going on don't you?
There are Kalmbach employees who masquerade as forum members, and when they see the hit count on the website decline, they ginnie-up the argumentative topics to present the new hit count to advertisers. You know, kind of like sweeps week.
Gentlemen,
Respectfully I will submit that I lack the qualifications and motivation to "save" the hobby. I did my share back in the 70's and 80's working in the train departments of several hobby shops.
Having raised three children and three step children with only limited success, and being convinced that my short comings in that area were the result of insurmountable cultural presures and the alternate defective half of said childrens gene pools, I fully understand my own limits regarding having such influience on the choices of others.
Additionally, knowing myself well enough to know that the social side of the hobby is an aspect I can take or leave at will with no real effect on my interests or modeling efforts, I thereby reconize that I am not suitably motivated to engage in any "recruiting drive".
I dislike the trains shows more and more as years go on. And while I am an NMRA member, conventions and such don't really attract me either.
Good luck in you efforts.
Sheldon
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Gentlemen, Having raised three children and three step children with only limited success, and being convinced that my short comings in that area were the result of insurmountable cultural presures and the alternate defective half of said childrens gene pools, I fully understand my own limits regarding having such influience on the choices of others. Sheldon
Are any of those 6 a MRR?
Train Modeler ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Gentlemen, Having raised three children and three step children with only limited success, and being convinced that my short comings in that area were the result of insurmountable cultural presures and the alternate defective half of said childrens gene pools, I fully understand my own limits regarding having such influience on the choices of others. Sheldon Are any of those 6 a MRR? Richard
ATLANTIC CENTRAL: Gentlemen, Having raised three children and three step children with only limited success, and being convinced that my short comings in that area were the result of insurmountable cultural presures and the alternate defective half of said childrens gene pools, I fully understand my own limits regarding having such influience on the choices of others. Sheldon
No, three girls, three boys, no model railroaders. One of the boys does have some interest in trains, and is in fact a licenced Railroad Engineer, even though he currently chooses to make a living as a Fire Fighter and Paramedic. He may come around to the hobby later, but beer, football and running into burning buldings seem to have his attention now at age 27. And he is my son. He surely got those traits from his mother as I hate beer and am bored by pro sports in general.
retsignalmtr My club has several junior members under 16 YO. They enjoy the hobby and are very knowledgeable. On the other hand we did a show at a Boy Scout event last spring celebrating 100 years of scouting. Those little B's did everything they could to cause problems like shaking the layout, putting sweating soft drink cups on the rails in front of moving trains, causing derailments, throwing switches and many other things to disrupt the layouts operations, all while their scout leaders looked on. Never again for them.
As a volunteer scout leader, I am very ticked off by the behavior of the scouts at a model railroading club. Not only would I have stopped it, but there would have been some community service to impress upon the young lads respect for other people's property.
Let me see if I have this right: A Scout is trustworthy (not here), loyal, helpful (nope), friendly (maybe), courteous (doesn't sound like it), kind (not to the layout owners), obedient (likely not, if anyone said anything), cheerful (sounds like they were cheerfully laying waste to the layout....) thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent.
Yes, Boy Scouts are supposed to manage themselves, but this one called for a leaders intervention. These are teenage boys... they need guidance.
Aikidomaster I understand that the Boy Scouts now have a merit badge for model railroading. That does not excuse bad manners or bad behavior Junior members of a model railroad club is a great idea, they should be paired up with an older experienced modeler Have fun!!
FWIW, the Boys Scouts have a Model Design and Building merit badge, which may include elements of model railroading, and they have a Railroading merit badge, which involves EITHER learning about or building a model railroad OR doing some railfanning activities.
Connecticut Valley Railroad A Branch of the New York, New Haven, and Hartford
"If you think you can do a thing or think you can't do a thing, you're right." -- Henry Ford
Doughless blownout cylinder: ...this has been a strange weekend hasn't it? I mean, look at the DC/DCC threads, the cost of the hobby going up threads, companies not existing threads....sheeesh! Man, the forum was boring during the holidays. You know what's going on don't you? There are Kalmbach employees who masquerade as forum members, and when they see the hit count on the website decline, they ginnie-up the argumentative topics to present the new hit count to advertisers. You know, kind of like sweeps week.
blownout cylinder: ...this has been a strange weekend hasn't it? I mean, look at the DC/DCC threads, the cost of the hobby going up threads, companies not existing threads....sheeesh!
aaaahhhhhhh...now we are seeing shills now are we....rotflmao!!!
Well here's my two cents worth....Just keep building as we go and if it's any fun to the kids they will continue the hobby themselves. It might be just putting up a set under the tree at Christmas at first, you never know. I know that all of my three kids will always have trains under their tree every year.
"If you build it, they will come."
Ray
Bayville, NJ
Life is what happens to youWhile you're busy making other plans - John Lennon
I just posted a video in the Weekly video fun, here is the link if you can't be bothered to go look
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4rBOEvsmMQ
Anyway, aside from the subject matter, which is not exactly prototypical, just look at the number of kids running trains on this layout. The first Sunday of every month kids can run trains on this huge DCC layout and they have a blast. There is usually a line waiting to get a train to run. Many of these kids as they got older graduate to being helpers that act as dispatchers, trying to maintain some sense of order. I would bet that on any given Sunday the average age on this 4000 sq ft layout is under 20.
There are quite a few of us on the forum that frequent K-10 in Maryville Illinois, and I can't think of a better way to promote the hobby.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Simon- That's a great thing going on there. It's nice to see the kids want to participate. Just proves that what attracted kids a hundred years ago still works today.
This is something that has interested (actually, bugged) me for over 50 years. In that time, I have been involved with model railroading, model airplanes, model rockets, and model ships. I only gave up on plastics and model cars.
I tried to get my son interested in all of these. He currently has a slight passing interest in trains because his 3 year old daughter likes them, and has a slightly lower interest in RC planes. His current passion nowadays, after his work and family, is shooting and hunting.
My experience with the three hobby groups over those years:
First, I'm a member of several model airplane clubs The largest MA club has put on numerous mall shows, taken part in many community events, both static display and flying demos. When enough space at one of the local the malls for a show was available, we not only invited other local model airplane clubs to join us, but we have included model railroad, model boat, model rocket, and model car clubs, both RC and static.
Model airplanes: Started about 1948. Usually the people I've run into have been very open and outgoing. It is not unusual to see flyers, in club context or individually, openly invite kids to join in. When I first got involved with control line flying, local club members would actually come to my house to give me rides across town to the flying site. I got huge amounts of help and instruction. LAter, I was invited to help other young people just starting out. In the club I am a member of, we've even put on shows at scouting and other community events, not only talking to the kids, but even giving the opportunity to fly, under guidance. Even planes that involve months of construction and over $1000.00 worth of materials and equipment. If something unexpected happens (nee crash), well that's life. At our shows, both mall, community event, or our annual public flying demonstration, we not only have people designated for public contact, nearly any member not actively flying is approachable by any spectator of any age. This even extends to people who drop by the field any time anyone is flying. I've rarely, regardless of my age, been told to go away from any flying site. When I was a young kid, I could bring a plane to anywhere any adult was flying, and get help, not rejection. The MA people are not only interested in maintaining the hobby/sport, but actively try to grow it, especially by helping kids! I will include model rocketry, which seems to have the highest youth content and participation percentagewise of any of these groups, after RC cars. We have even put on presentations in a number of local grade and middle schools.
Model Railroading: Started around 1950. Never joined any clubs. Most of the clubs I've been exposed to have seemed very insular. I obviously won't be so concerned if they had to restrict the number of members. If you're not doing things our way, we don't want you. When I was a kid, trying to get help, all I could get was hobby shop owners, and mags like Model Railroader, Railroad Model Craftsman, Model Trains, and Toy Trains. My first experience with a model railroader was in a hobby shop, trying to solve a problem with a Mantua Little Six that stumped the proprieter. The MRR came up to the counter, just started talking. When the proprieter asked if he could help, the jerk just said "Aint' got no time to bother with snot nosed kids!" That was about 1956. The experience is still vivid in my mind. BTW, I eventually figured out the problem myself. Over the years, I've been to a couple club shows, even visited some modular layouts at mall shows, including ones put on by my model airplane club. Nearly always found that the MR clubbers don't seem to want to talk to "Outsiders!" like they'd be contaminated. When someone other than a club member tries to ask a question, they seem to carry the attitude "Go away, you bother me!" About the only group that seemed open and friendly to me was a small group, about 4 or 5, from my RC Model Airplane club, that met at one of the guy's houses for operationg sessions on a 10' X 20' HO layout. Never got there before the pike owner died, they were all retired, I was working 60 or more hours a week. Not sure why I've stayed with the hobby, with that kind of attitude. Seems the only kids MRR afficianados want to bother with is their own - sometimes. I know one guy who sets up a large Lionel set for Christmas, and has a nice set-up, HO, in a circular table, where the train runs behind a window on a rotating platform, Cool, when the speeds match, like an action lamp. His kids weren't even allowed in the room with the Lionel, or to touch the rotating layout.
Model ships. Also started around 1950-52. Haven't had as much contact with other shipbuilders, but at a couple shows we had that had a local model boating group, I had the impression they were a bit more "Loner" than the model railroaders, only slightly more approachable. Only two model shipbuilders I had personal contact with were helpful, probably because they both ran hobby shops that carried kits and supplies for shipbuilding.
I was very happy, and even a bit surprised a number of years ago, when MRR mag started a column for teens.
Hope people out there don't get too upset or offended by what I just wrote. Or maybe I don't, and am just attempting to be polite. These are just some things that have been eating me for a lot of years. Maybe a few more model railroaders will open up to kids and others because of it?
Geared Steam Rules for hobbyists interacting with non-modelers. 1) be polite 2) be courtious 3) take a bath 4) brush your teeth 5) comb your hair 6) wear clean clothes (somewhat stylish is a plus) 7) don't stand in the middle of the aisle and BS with your buddies, move to the side and out of the way so those of us that are actually looking to buy can. 8) if you are not the social type, that's okay, just don't talk to anyone. 9) If a man has an attractive lady with him, don't oogle like you've been locked up for 10 years, get out of the basement and find your own lady. Pretty women are out there, but not in the local LHS or the club. Please follow 1-6 for assistance in the pursuit.
I like it! This should be posted as the standard code of conduct for all participants in train shows.