Kits VS RTR again.

[Anonymous]

im 13 and like puting togather kits i got my first kit when i was 10 they dont take long and arnt very difficult so i encourage begginers or anyone 2 try at least one kit if i can do it u can do it im not an a+ student so u dont need 2 be an engineer 2 put one togather

[IRONROOSTER]

First my bias - I have both kit and RTR and will continue to buy both.

I remember years ago when no "serious" modeler would even look at a plastic kit. [:D][:D] If the box wasn't full of wood and metal, it wasn't a craftsman kit. Scratchbuilding was the mark of the "true" hobbyist. Everyone moaned about how the hobby was go to the dogs because scratchbuilding was in decline.

The truth is that as long as the number of modelrailroaders grows, we all benefit: the manufacturers who can sell more, us the hobbyists who have a larger selection to chose from, the retailers who have more customers.

People today have more leisure time opportunities. They don't want to just do model railroading. RTR allows them to get a layout built and trains running in less time. This is a good thing, it keeps them in the hobby. The kits and scratch building supplies are still there. You may have to mail order them but you can still get them. This has always been true for a lot of modelers anyway.

Today I can work on the layout, run trains, build kits, scratch build as I desire. I don't have to spend months or years building cars, locomotives, hand laying track, etc before I can run trains. Personally, I think the state of the hobby has never been better.

Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I'm 14 and I buy a few cars each month. The only ready to run car I have is an Alska Grain car i bought on ebay for $15. All the others are Athearn kits. I bought my second undecorated car that I have to paint this week.

I prefer building kits because I can build the Athearn Kits pretty quick. I like the satisfaction of seeing the cars that I put together running better than my dads three RTR lumber cars.

Also the hobby shop that my dad and I buy our rolling stock from has enough kits to last along time. The guy that owns the store stocks very few RTR cars.

[Anonymous]

Some of it I suspect is that Kit builders are going heavily into Prototype Modelling, while most of the former BB market is going RTR.

I know my local hobby shop has about 1/3 of it's total kit stock in Resin, and they appear to be turning over better than the Plastic. I know there's about 5 of those in my to build pile. I don't see as much of a market for the BB, MDC or Accurail level kits. They're low-detail compared to Red Caboose, Branchline or Resin kits, and the RTR versions are a lot better (Better detail, better running).

Of course, I am the guy who pays RTR money for a kit (Resin isn't cheap.) I build for fun, so Resin kits are a better choice for me than RTR. And I like good detail, 75% of my 50-odd pieces of Rolling Stock are Branchline Blueprint, and much of the rest is P2K.

[fec153]

Affordability. rtr too expensive.
Expertise. Arthritis-Nerve damage.
Love the BLUE BOX.
Going to the Deland Fl. train show on the 24th,get me some more KITS.
Phil

[Isambard]

Here's another viewpoint from one who in retirement returned to HO modelling after an absence of 50 years.
In those halcyon days of my youth I enjoyed putting together kits from Ulrich, Varney, Central Valley and others, and creating buildings and structures from scratch following instructions from Railroad Model Craftsman or Model Railroader.
Two years ago, I decided to get back in the fun, despite having lost such manual hobby or other skills and knowledge as I had then, and not having appropriate tools and a decent area to work in. Also despite the fact that my manual dexterity, steadiness of hands and visual acuity aren't quite what they used to be.
I decided that it was essential that I get the Grizzly Northern Railway up and running quickly (on a club layout for the time being), so I bought, or received as gifts, a number of ready to run Athearn, or completed kit, freight cars and several Bachmann Spectrum steamers and got running. In parallel I also started buying and assembling a number of kits, from Intermountain, Red Caboose, Accurail and Roundhouse. Assembling these has been frustrating at times as I re-learn skills and adjust to my annoying physical limitations, however it has been fun and I'm learning to take my time and enjoy the process as much as the end result. Ah, maturity!
From my point of view, there is a marvellous range of stuff available to the modeller, whether ready to run, shake the box, kit bash or build from scratch and I hope all categories will continue to be available, so that modellers of every persuasion can enjoy the hobby.
Now I must get on with planning surgery on my 2-8-0, to install an Elesco feedwater heater, where I'll tax my skills at a new level. Oh yes, two Tichy ore cars also await my attention-now there's a challenge!

[Anonymous]

Has anyone considered the attention needed to build a kit?

When the microwave was invented for home cooking we all thought that the stove is going to join the junk pile.

Now that life is flying by too fast to catch a breath in today's dog eat dog world it is wonderful to actually sit and build something. Attention spans and skills improve over time.

I have bought RTR as well. Sometimes as a *Gasp! a starting point for a kitbash. I built some Athearn undecorated tank cars into Domino's Sugar Cars using paint and microscale decals. I thought here were very nice cars worthy of the rail. Athearn released the Domino's RTR a few months ago and I ended up buying two because they looked alot nicer than mine were.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Trainnut1250

Lack of kits...???? I respectfully disagree. I have six big boxes full of kits awaiting assembly. I am always buying more. Search kits on Ebay and see how many items come up (I just searched and came up 5542 entries in HO). Most of the guys I know have more kits than they will finish in their lifetimes. Maybe my friends are fanatics (I know I am, see my handle) but I think that many kits are bought and never built. They will be passed around for many years to come. Some are more expensive on resale, but I find I usually pay less than the original list on Ebay.

I don't see ap problem with RTR and I agree with Lemscate on the quality thing. Another angle to this is that many very cool kits are produced by guys in their garages or by small companies as a labor of love. Most of these kits are by necessity limited run items because these guys are small fish. If you like some of the obscure stuff, buy it because the guy may not be around next year if you don't. Most of these offerings don't make it to the LHS for a variety of economic reasons....

I enjoy kits and I haven't really felt that availability is a problem...If it gets to be in the future, there is always scratchbuilding...

Guy

Exactly. I'm one of those types of guys. In today's MR world, the RTR products are definately making their presence known. In my MR world, I have a mixture of both. But, kits are ahead of RTR about 95% to 5%. The 5% include several items that are not available as kits. I custom paint and detail all locomotives, and unless you aren't going to have industries like Coal mines, Cement plants, Quarries, and Oil Refineries, then you'll have to build a kit or two. American Model Builders are another source for great kits to build.

I certainly hope that the market doesn't eliminate the freight car kits and undecorated locomotives. It would put a hurt on my MR enjoyment!!

[Anonymous]

For me, It"s RTR, I"ll gladly let someone else add all those loving little details, I"ve built a lot of kits, but the older I get, the more appealing the RTR becomes.


Mac

[fec153]

Trackster- I agree. However just can't afford them. Oh I could buy one a month or so,
instead of of 2 or 3 kits for the same amount of $.

[Anonymous]

I'm not saying anything about weather one (RTR or kits) should be available, or not. In an ideal world, both could certainly share the market. However, the market is driven by what sells and less and less of you out there are buying kits.

[Anonymous]

Years ago, I used to build model sailing ships. I'd get a styrene model and spend a month or two putting it together, painting it, and rigging it. I enjoyed myself tremendously. Then, in 1980, my wife pulled one of those wifely tricks on me. She bought me a wooden model of a J-Class racing sloop. The hull was a roughly shaped block of wood that I was supposed to cut down to match paper templates. After three months of working on the hull, I decided that building this model was not fun! In fact it was so much not fun that I haven't built any more sailing ship models to this day.

A lot of people just getting into model railroading have similar experiences. They'll start working on a kit and it'll be a disaster. How many of us have cut a piece off of a sprue and watched the piece fly off towards the next county? If that happens enough times (say, twice), then the novice will decide "kits are not fun, I'll stick will RTR."

[Anonymous]

When I started in this hobby, we handlaid ties and spiked rail. Only the newbies used flex or snap track. If you were in a hurry to lay track or had a tunnel you would use Tru-Scale milled roadbed. I've built my share of Ulrich, Central Valley, Silver Streak, and Walthers old kits. I've also done some scratch building, but the "new" Proto time savers look a lot nicer then some of my work. I think that the RTR is for the person that doesn't want to build a kit but still wants a nice fleet.

I can remember when you would have never stated that you didn't build your own layout. I was at the Lone Star convention a couple of weeks ago and was talking to a man about his layout as we looked at the track plan, when I ask him how far along it was he stated "they're going to deliver it in about six months".

The hobby is going to go the way of the dollar (profit is not a dirty word), so if people want RTR more then kits so be it. I can still buy Silver Streak and all of the others on eBay . I've got two FSM's in different stages of construction and work on them when i'm in the mood. If I want a fast scene filler, I purchase a plastic kit and get it done in a couple of days.

I also look for the old kits at the GATS and local train shows.

I feel like i've put in a nickle instead on my 2 cents

Have a good day
Bob Stephens

[Martin4]

I have plenty of kits that will take years to be built. But in every magazine I read each month shows new interesting items that are not available as kits. These are molded with much more precision and detail level than the Athearn blue box and MDC Roundhouse kits, with many hand applied parts; that hand should be mine ! I'm sure there will always be kits around but the choice is getting thinner. Walthers recently issued items that previously available only as built-ups (Golden Valley Depot etc) and I hurried to get them for my son's layout. I don't want to ban Ready-to-roll but I love to build and I would appreciate everything to be available as a kit. Especially the nice modern cars Atlas issued in the in the last few years.

Martin
Québec City

[Anonymous]

If you don't understand the pleasures of building a kit, please try one. Start with something easy. Athearn blue box, MDC, Branchline Yardmaster, etc. Give yourself time and don't get frustrated. It may take a couple, to build your confidence, but in the end, you WILL understand what a pleasure it is to do this. It's a learning process that is easily gained and in the long run you will build the skills that will serve you a lifetime and you will be proud of your abilities.

I just think passing this learning experiance by will be a deep loss for you!

[Paul3]

deschane wrote:

QUOTE: If you don't understand the pleasures of building a kit, please try one. Start with something easy. Athearn blue box, MDC, Branchline Yardmaster, etc. Give yourself time and don't get frustrated. It may take a couple, to build your confidence, but in the end, you WILL understand what a pleasure it is to do this.

Some people will never understand, and "shouting" at them that they will once they do is more likely to pu***hem away, rather than encouraging them. [;)]

Now, I build models. Heck, I still have 1/32 airplanes to finish building someday.

But the most critical thing about model railroading to me is that my models will run, and that I can make them run almost like the real thing. I can't say that about my M4E8 Sherman tank in 1/35th scale, nor can I say that about my Chevy Camaro model in 1/24th. But I can say that with my 1/87th scale boxcar.

To me, model railroading is all about running trains. Building railroad models, for the most part, is just one step on the way to running trains, just like building benchwork or wiring switch machines.

If I could afford to have all my railroad (benchwork, wiring, model building, scenery) built for me so that I could start running my Boston to Providence section of New Haven's Shoreline route on a perfectly manicured layout tomorrow, I'd do it in a heartbeat. The reason why I built my 25' x 50' HO layout is precisely because I could not afford to have it done, not for the pleasure of getting splinters. [:)]

Paul A. Cutler III
*****************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*****************

[Anonymous]

I honestly prefer kits (preferably Athearn Blue Box), although I did just buy and Athearn RTR UP 50' Boxcar for $15.00. It's very nice, I got my $15.00's worth. But, it does lack some features that come with kits. For example, the doors don't open, the coupler pockets stick out, and I've yet to figure out how to get the body off the frame. But, the bonus was that it came with metal wheels, which is good since metal wheels don't dirty up the track so much. So in the end, there are pros, and cons, but I still prefer kits.

[Anonymous]

Paul3
Where did I yell at anyone?

[Anonymous]

Well - I read this thread before visiting my LHS... and NOW I feel comfortable enough to add my POV

There are so many skills used to build a layout (carpentry to leectronics as well as the obvious model making). That considered, there must be room for those (like me) who like to build our own rolling stock (just don't make me assemble the truck sideframes!).
as well as those who like RTR.

There are also those who build their own furniture VS those who buy it at Etahn Allen VS those who hire a decorator. There- another topic of discussion... and still no answer!

I just want to see a selection of BOTH... (heck - the old RTR was Lifelike, Bachmann, Tyco and Mantua- the cheap kind. So this new RTR stuff is an improvement - I think RTR over Kit is an obsession with the manufacturers, though)

[on30francisco]

I believe there is room in this hobby for both RTR and kits. I prefer to buy locomotives RTR. I have built some kits of structures and rolling stock and although they came out good, I found them boring and did not enjoy assembling the petty items included in the kits (eg. trucks). For myself I find scratchbuilding structures and rolling stock much more enjoyable, less frustrating, and much easier than assembling most kits. I did enjoy building kits from Foothill Model Works because the instructions are very precise about all phases of the assembly including painting and weathering techniques.