Hey everyone,
I was just wondering if anyone has locomotives from different eras? It seems like a bunch of guys are really serious about modeling a period of only 5-10 years. I am more interested in building my layout with structures that are 1950's ish, and then just running whatever I want. Steam and diesel. Probably not at the same time, I will take the steamers off when the big diesels run, but the building might look a bit old with the big diesels.
What do you think?
What do I think? I think you should suit yourself, and when others see what you do, they should suit themselves as well. Discussion and arguments are optional, although a few involved won't be able to hide their disdain for what you do...or their enthusiasm.
Personally, I like to display and operate items in a 25 year range, which I feel is safe because as steam was dropping its last fires, diesels and electrics had been around for years. Or, conversely, by the time diesels came on board in numbers, steam was still a resort, or the go-to motive power, for many railroads for many years to come. Depending on your criteria, revenue steam on a large scale stopped in 1959 or in 1960/61. I choose to limit my years between about 1933 and 1957. For that purpose, I restrict my motive power and structures and such to reflect that.
As always, though, it's strictly a personal choice. Just be prepared to deal with some differences of opinion if you either invite them (as you have done) or display them in imagery posted here and elsewhere.
Crandell
I was thinking I would set mine from 1935-1966. I don't plan to run anything newer than 1966 (SD40) and figure that isn't too much of a gap for me. Mainly I don't have room for a steam layout and a diesle layout, so I will do the best I can. It won't bother me in the least so I guess I doesn't really matter if it bothers someone else.
Andrew
I agree with Crandell and a lot of other people who have posted on this and other forums:
It's your railroad, do as you want. It's your time and money, you should have fun!
I like your approach:
"I am more interested in building my layout with structures that are 1950's ish, and then just running whatever I want. Steam and diesel."
Go for it! By the way, run them at the same time if you want. I think it's a neat look.
Emman
Modeling a relatively narrow period helps to control spending and perhaps give the layout a bit more focus.
Even if I like the look of say, an F40PH or GP38-2, I'll pass them by, and devote my resources to building my steam roster. I like the look of airslide covered hoppers, but they were introduced in 1954, and my cutoff is 1953, but on this point, I'll fudge a bit, but the brightly painted Soo Line hoppers from the 1960s will stay at the hobby shop.
But at the end of the day, it's your layout, and you know how you want to enjoy it, so do what you like. But don't be surprised if you change your mind somewhere along the way.
Dan
What's a reason for old Steam and new Diesels on the same layout? Answer = Excursion trains!
There are lots of restored old steam and early diesels that currently run today's passenger excursion (museum) trains. So there will always be a protoyptically correct reason why there is an SD70Ace on one track, and a Challenger on the other track!
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
This is always an interesting topic because it raises so many different viewpoints. For myself, it doesn't bother me one bit to see a mix of steam, diesels, different eras, or whatever. I thought about this the past 2 Sundays while visiting two model railroad clubs who were having an open house. Both clubs were running a real mix, and from the comments I overheard, that was probably much more interesting to the visitors than if they had limited their displays toa more limited time frame or era. There were comments like 'I remember seeing a train like that when I was a kid" to "I saw a train like that last week". As for the kids that were in attendance, well let's just say Thomas got as much attention as one of the steam engines or one of the modern era diesels.
Tom
Pittsburgh, PA
"Vic",
I don't see a big problem with that. A town could realistically be pretty much the same visually from year to year - albeit changes in automobile styles and signage. I've driven through a few towns in the past 10 years that look like they haven't changed since the 50s.
Although I model the early 40s, I have thought about running my RS-1 switcher on my layout; replacing the 30s Packards for 50s Chevys and obsolete rolling stock. As long as it's "plausible" (however you choose to define that)...Go for it!
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Structures didn't really change all that much in the first half of the 20th century. I model a lot of 3-4 story urban brick buildings, DPM, Model Power and City Classics. These are appropriate for either the steam or transition eras, and many of these buildings are still around even today.
So, I feel free to run either steam or diesel. I will swap out my engines and most of my rolling stock, based on my chosen era for that day. I've accumulated enough rolling stock from each time period to do that, although I'm still a bit short of equipment for the 1930s. (Santa, take notice.)
The other thing I've done is to maintain two collections of automobiles and trucks. I swap these out at the same time. Most visitors will notice the older cars, and they set the time frame for the layout much better than even the trains do.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
MisterBeasley Most visitors will notice the older cars, and they set the time frame for the layout much better than even the trains do.
Most visitors will notice the older cars, and they set the time frame for the layout much better than even the trains do.
Cars are probably the best way for an observer than date a layout. Most people can place a car within a few years, men closer. Visitors who are not really in the hobby will know they don't see steam but do not know the newer diesel from older ones.
Bob
Photobucket Albums:NPBL - 2008 The BeginningNPBL - 2009 Phase INPBL - 2010 Downtown
Hi!
Like the folks said - "do your own thing"!
The good news is that a number of railroads ran diesel and steam during the same time period - with some mixing them on the same trains (usually as helpers up grades). The Santa Fe is an excellent example, and there are many photos out there of F unit consists being aided by 4-8-4s or 2-10-2s or several other types. The Illinois Central ran steam and diesel during most all of the '50s too!
Personally, I like to keep my models to a "max" build date of 1959, so while I have plenty of F and E units as well as GPs 8&9 and RSDs 3 &4 &15, I don't have or run locos made after that.
But that's just what I do on my layout. You can do whatever you want, and that's just another thing I like about this hobby.
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
I certainly wouldn't worry about the aqge of the buildings that much, the little town where I live hasn't seen a new building since the 1930's!!!! It's like stepping into a time warp and I'm sure there are many others that look much the same.
As for engines, I have both steam and diesel and set the cutoff date by one simple rule, NO chop nose diesels so it's something along the lines of 1940-1960.
I have several diesels of the 1960's and they will occassionally get the spotlight as complete trains when I get the urge to see some "Screamin Eagles".
Mark
I admire the people who folks on a narrow time line to model but I find it too restrictive for my taste. I try to model a more moderish period but if something strikes my fancy I wont hesitate on adding it to my roster. My rolling stock is all over the board.. I have some UP cars that according to the build date on the door (something I just noticed this weekend) that they should have been off the tracks years and years before my UP SD70 caming rolling along. But it does not bother me because it is my railroad and I make the rules
I model MEC and a freelanced RR in the early 50s so I can have some steam, and also MEC and B&M in 1980, which is an interesting timeframe before Guilford gray took over everything. One part of the layout (not built yet) will have some more modern buildings that may have been built in the 60s or later as well as 60s to late 70s vehicles. The rest will be 50s and earlier vintage buildings and vehicles.
George In Midcoast Maine, 'bout halfway up the Rockland branch
As to year modeled, what is the last year your layout's Class I railroad(s) ran steam, and you might then consider that as "your latest year" to model operations.
For example: Pennsylvania Railroad's last transition year of steam to diesel was 1957, and in 1958, it was all diesel motive power. Thus, my CR&T is circa 1956 because traction PCC & box-motors were in still in vogue, PRR first-generation diesel, and last-generation Pennsy steam are all possible -- Not to mention an "I Like Ike" billboard for the date.
All that being said -- Do what's important to you.
After all, CR&T is free-lanced, and its prototype never existed in any given year.
Conemaugh Road & Traction circa 1956
I would say most railroads with a large roster of locomotives ran both steam and diesel simultaneously for something like a 10 year overlap. The last steam hold-outs tended to do the switch a little faster, while the earlier ones to start acquiring diesels often took more like 15 years. Many first bought diesel switchers; road freight diesels then followed. A flagship passenger train might be dieselized early while the rest stayed behind steam for several more years. Each railroad followed a slightly different path.
Even the classes of steam still running as the last fires dropped could vary. Sometimes it was the most modern steam power; other times it was old teakettles out of an obscure branch line division point. Or both.
So, it is completely prototypical to mix the two together as long as you keep to the first generation diesels. As another post noted, by the time low nosed diesels appeared steam would only found on an occasional excursion.
John
You can mix old and new or whatever you want. If anyone disagree's take it up with the Union Pacific
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSASZl5JhA4
If they say it's not prototypical for a steamer to pull modern freight cars then show them this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgHrDbN4EU
Springfield PA
Don't forget too, that there was a flourishing of steam excursions too. Strausburg did that many times for example. Several times engines pulled "Last steam over X locale", and though a fire may have been dropped in 57, they discovered in 59 that they needed another couple engines, and look who was still ready. I belive the SP Cab Forwards did that once.
Pulling freight? Though much of her time was spent in excursion, I'm pretty sure 4449 did some gruntwork when she dove across the country to pick the AFT up from #1. And vice-versa.
-Morgan
Depends on what you mean by "1950's ish" buildings. Where I grew up, Richfield MN, was a suburb of Minneapolis and most of the houses and buildings were built in the 1950's. Most of them were still there when I moved out in 2006. My folks built our house in 1951, just after the last MN&S steam was gone. I saw FM's, Baldwins, and EMD switchers under MN&S; GP-9 thru 30's under the Soo Line (along with some Milwaukee MP-15's) and even more recent engines under Canadian Pacific. Most of the buildings around the track were basically the same, a few changes here and there (an old Clark station became a Kentucky Fried Chicken) but not that much really.
I love the steam pulling frieght video.. I saw a steam pulling freight about 10 years ago late one night on the Portland & Western line near Tigard, Oregon. I heard the whistle from the highway and was able to get ahead of it with minutes of it crossing road. It was great seeing the engine doing what it was meant to do.
Hamltnblue If they say it's not prototypical for a steamer to pull modern freight cars then show them this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgHrDbN4EU
If I remember correctly, this is one of Crandell's favorite Youtube vids...
Mine too.....
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
One of the guys in our round robin group does this - operates the layout with steam only for 6 months, then it's all diesel for 6 months. Works great.
Larry
http://www.semichops.org/
http://www.youtube.com/user/ClinchValleySD40
http://www.flickr.com/photos/52481330@N05/
http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showgallery.php/cat/500/page/1/ppuser/8745/sl/c
Wow, I love this forum. So many responses so quickly. I lean most heavily to the steamers and the 50's diesels so I'm pretty good. However, I LOVE six axle diesels, so I might sneak a few in lol.
April 15, 1954
That's the imaginary date on my freelance layout.
Runing steam and early diesel side by side.
Totally prototypical for that time period.
But, like you, that doesn't stop me from running my SD40-2 NS and CSX diesels side by side on my double mainline whenever I feel like it. LOL
Rich
Alton Junction
vicious-peanut Wow, I love this forum. So many responses so quickly. I lean most heavily to the steamers and the 50's diesels so I'm pretty good. However, I LOVE six axle diesels, so I might sneak a few in lol. Andrew
You make it sound like 6 axle diesels are a modern invention. If you want 6 axle 50's diesels, there are the EMD SD7 and SD9, ALCO RSD-4/5, Baldwin AS-616, Fairbanks-Morse H24-66 and its less powerful brother, the H16-66.
Some of SP's SD7's and 9's were steam generator equipped and could be seen on local passenger trains. I even remember seeing an SP SD9 on a commute train in San Jose as late as 1984.
Andre
You're free and clear running diesel and steam together: Southern Pacific ran diesel and steam together for a number of years. Frankly, SP wasn't the 'fastest' road in the west to dieselize, and they wanted to get as much running time out of their steamers as possible during the transition.
So it wasn't unusual to see SP Cab-forwards hauling a train over Donner Pass with diesel helpers at first, and even after SP committed itself to diesel, it wasn't unusual to see diesels hauling a train with steam helpers.
As far as 6-axles, SP was quick to dieselize it's difficult Siskiyou Line between Oregon and California with 6-axle SD's, but still kept 2-10-2's as helpers for their trains between Ashland OR and Black Butte CA, over the 3+% grades of Siskiyou Summit.
Even Rio Grande, after almost completely dieselizing, kept some of their huge L-131 2-8-8-2's in service until 1956 as helpers over Tennessee Pass.
So from the mid-forties to the late 'fifties, it was not uncommon to see both steam and diesel working in tandem to get the freight going. It was pretty interesting to watch.
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
It's your layout, if you want to pull wooden cars with modern locos or double stacks with steam, go for it. If you like a building kit, build it, use it.
As the transition era progressed, diesels did more and more of the mainline work, steam was put on branchlines and used as helpers. So they go together even in the same train.
I borrowed a video that showed UP's steam excursion train pushing on a freight train that had stalled on a hill. The train had multiple huge modern locos, but the old steamer provided the needed boost to get it over the hump, even while its excursion cars tagged along.
Have fun,
The SOUTHERN RAILWAY ended steam on JUNE 17, 1953 in regular freght service. SOUTHERN and successor NORFOLK SOUTHERN ran steam and diesel excursions from 1966 to 1994. Locomotives used along with others on these excursions were Southern Mikado 2-8-2 #4501, Southern FP-7 #6133 and the NS Southern painted GP59 #4610. I have HO models of all three of these locomotives. They all look good pulling freight, passenger or sometimes non-prototypical mixed trains.
vicious-peanut Hey everyone, I was just wondering if anyone has locomotives from different eras? It seems like a bunch of guys are really serious about modeling a period of only 5-10 years. I am more interested in building my layout with structures that are 1950's ish, and then just running whatever I want. Steam and diesel. Probably not at the same time, I will take the steamers off when the big diesels run, but the building might look a bit old with the big diesels. What do you think?
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
I run N&W steam locomotives such as the Class A, J, Y6b, K3, W2 along with Southern Railway MS4. I also run Southern FT's and FP's. They are the locomotives that I like in the region that I like.
Craig North Carolina