An informal survey

[blownout cylinder]

*sigh*

So, let's all join in the bickerfest that has become this issue again...

LET us TRY To IMAGINE the POSSIBILITY that it is through an ACCUMULATION of such surveys...be they informal, or formalized ones ...that one APPROACHES the truth AT SOME POINT!!!

And, yes, even the boogie man of Kalmbach's own surveys and published circulation numbers, be they published or whatever, count!!

---------------------------------

Look. I can understand that this was an INFORMAL survey first...one that denotes that he was looking at basic information here...and on an on-line forum that may run some risks...but sheeesh. 

As to the intelligence of some readers here, or on other forums, let me just say this...when conspiracy websites get more hits on them then news reporting sites...does this mean everyone BELIEVES these sites? No!! A lot of this is simply pure curiousity, And that is all I'm going to say on THIS matter...

[rrinker]

 Of course we are only dealign with a specfici subset od model railroaders with this poll - although contrary to previously published opinions that only "young people" use computers and participate in online forums this is rather obviously not true. We have here the subset of model railroaders who are somewhat computer savvy, further subset those who chose to participate in the Model Railroader forums vs one of the many others out there.

 But by your logic the MR magazine surveys are just as pointless - they only gather the subset of model railroaders who subscribe to Model Railroader magazine. ALL surveys are going to have this problem - and not just the people who don't bother responding, but how to reach a truly representative cross section, be it hobby or politics.

 And how is to determine what "model railroading" is? You're saying a train set it not good enough - so I guess the years I built layouts using sectional track and Tyco train sets don't counts as time being a model railroader? I was buying products from hobby shops and stores, or had things purchased for me, so from a vendor perspective I was a consumer. Does my time start when I finalyl got an AHM loco, since those were better than Tyco? Or do I have to wait until I built my first Blue Box kit? Or got an Athearn loco? Or maybe when  I first used flex track? By my estimation I have been "playing with trains" since I was 2 years old. And in the end, that's all this REALLY is. The level of realism, the type of work, the skills, etc. may all increase over time, but in the end, even building perfectly detailed exact scale models from scratch is still "playing with trains". Sorry if I am not insecure in my choice of hobbies that I must correct people when they say I "play with trains" and tell them no, I work with detailed scale models and simulate actual railroad operations. Those that are in the hobby get it already. Those that aren't, either get it and join, or don't . Do I care if someone snickers behind my back about my "toy" trains? Nope - because most of them have their own hobby that may well provoke the same reaction if they told others.

                                       --Randy

 

[CNJ831]

mononguy63

CNJ831:

Yes, many here find this thread "entertaining", but overall I'm afraid, it actually is representative of why this site is not taken seriously, or participated in, by most serious hobbyists today. 

Yet here you are, actively engaged in this thread and on this site. The irony is palpable.

(Sorry, I don't normally play the role of antagonist, but I just couldn't help myself...)

Yes, but I've continued to participate largely because I've been here since the beginning, a time when this site was more legimate and populated largely by a more serious cross section of hobbyists. I keep hoping against hope that somehow it might return to that state. A false hope, I suppose.

CNJ831

[mononguy63]

CNJ831

Yes, many here find this thread "entertaining", but overall I'm afraid, it actually is representative of why this site is not taken seriously, or participated in, by most serious hobbyists today. 

Yet here you are, actively engaged in this thread and on this site. The irony is palpable.

(Sorry, I don't normally play the role of antagonist, but I just couldn't help myself...)

[CNJ831]

steinjr

CNJ831:

 

secondhandmodeler:

 

Another thing to think about is whether this would be an average age of model railroader, or an average age of model railroaders who use computer forums. 

 

 

An important point, one I made several pages back and that in the latter case will result in significant skewing of any figures derive from this thread's content. Internet surveys only poll a segment of any faction, not a full cross section.

 

 Yes, dear. You are quite right. It probably would be a less than brilliant idea to invest your life savings in a business case based on an informal poll taken from a small, self selected and probably not very representative sub-group of model railroaders.

 Now - do you have any more such blindingly obvious observations you just must share with the rest of us dolts whom you believe are too dumb to think such deep thoughts on our own, or may people continue with the "getting to know the neighbors" mini presentations telling others what their age and hobby interests are?

 Smile,
 Stein

 

Stein, indeed I do and the first is don't ever underestimate the prevailing degree of stupidity that is abroad in the land today and especially on the Internet. To the many "dolts", the point I made is unfortunately far from blindingly obvious. In fact, this and similar concepts never even enter their minds! One of the repercussions of this has been that on quite a few occasions over the past decade I've seen utter nonsense, like the eventual "results" that will surface from this thread, posted elsewhere. Sometimes it even resurfaces here at a later date, represented as information derived from a "hobbyists survey", as if it were truly legitimate and representative of the facts. 

A typical point would be how absurdly the "number of years in the hobby" question is being answered by responders. Rather than counting time in the hobby as actual scale model railroaders, the majority are counting from the time they received their first Lionel, or Flyer, set as a very small child. This negates the vaule, or meaning, any figures might have had.

Incidentally, MR conducted readers' surveys that spanned some five decades. The results of these were truly enlightening and informative on questions such as this and on many others. And not unexpectedly, the results were distinctly different from the answers that are turning up in this childish "informal survey".

Yes, many here find this thread "entertaining", but overall I'm afraid, it actually is representative of why this site is not taken seriously, or participated in, by most serious hobbyists today. 

CNJ831  

[Electriccharlie]

Age:61

In HO for all my life; G Scale 5 years

Transition,

Proto lance SP in the southwest

DC/DCC on demand

 

 

[ruderunner]

Wow, this really took off!  Thanks for the responses!

I suppose a couple things should be clarified a bit, for example:  I intended for "armchair" hobbing to be included since I think we can all acknowledge that not everyone who is interested in this hobby has the time/space/money to have a layout all the time.  Life gets inthe way you know.  But an interest in the hobby is stil an interest even if you're not building.

Also, "new blood" is not the same as "young blood"  and I'm surprised at how may folks over 50 have only been in the hobby for a few years.  The flip to that is it's completely irrational to think that an 18 yr old can have 30 yrs of experience...

To those who are complaining that this is meaningless/unscietific/useless etc OK I get your point.  But I also stated up front that this isn't intended to be the end all survey of model railroaders.  So please partake in the survey or butt out.  I would preferr that this run it's course without being locked due to spats between posters.

As a quick request, when responding could you all post your survey answers in a group, just makes em easier to find and tabulate.  Don't get me wrong, feel free to expand on your answers and tell your stories, it's entertaining and folks want to know.

So I'll let this run it's course and when it dies down start picking some numbers to come up with averages and any interesting combinains of those numbers.+

Have fun!

[Aikidomaster]

Age 52 years old, approximately 28 years in the hobby this time. Like most of us, I started out with an American Flyer set for Christmas when I was about 3-4 years old. At about age 8-9 years old, my parents got rid of the Flyer stuff (I have no idea why) and bought me an HO train set for Christmas. Now, I model HO, although I had a Ntrak model for about 5 years (12 years ago). I use DCC. I am prototype freelancing the 1950's N&W and the Southern.

Having been to a recent club "open house", I can tell you why there is no "new blood". I showed up on Sunday (they were open on Saturday too). There were maybe 10 visitors in the layout room and about 15 or so club members. I was by myself. Not ONE individual spoke to me. This is a club accepting new members. At my age, I might have been "the kid" in the group, but gee, why not at least talk to the visitor? I came there with the idea of possibly joining. I left after spending about 90 minutes looking at the layout. I have no intention of going back. So, if groups are acting this way to guys like me, how are they acting to the younger individuals such as teenagers and young adults? Not going to get anyone interested in the hobby who is not already into trains, much less into their club!

[Anonymous]

While I would not want to base any serious decision on a poll like this, I find it interesting to learn just a little bit more about my fellow forum members. I am surprised to find out, how old actually some of us are and how young some of the opinions are. And vice versa, there are some highly mature posts from younger folks.

We all know that model railroaders are a dieing breed and have been for the last 30 years, yet we are still around.

So lighten up!

 

[steinjr]

CNJ831

 

secondhandmodeler:

 

Another thing to think about is whether this would be an average age of model railroader, or an average age of model railroaders who use computer forums. 

 

 

An important point, one I made several pages back and that in the latter case will result in significant skewing of any figures derive from this thread's content. Internet surveys only poll a segment of any faction, not a full cross section.

 Yes, dear. You are quite right. It probably would be a less than brilliant idea to invest your life savings in a business case based on an informal poll taken from a small, self selected and probably not very representative sub-group of model railroaders.

 Now - do you have any more such blindingly obvious observations you just must share with the rest of us dolts whom you believe are too dumb to think such deep thoughts on our own, or may people continue with the "getting to know the neighbors" mini presentations telling others what their age and hobby interests are?

 Smile,
 Stein

 

[Texas Zepher]

ruderunner

Age of modeler, years in hobby (armchair hobbying counts), scale, DC or DCC, prototype-freelance-protolance

53,48,all except Z and M,yes,yes

[Forty Niner]

Oh yea!!!! Well, every picture I have seen of earth taken from space is flat!! How do you explain that???  Ha!!!

Mark (;-])

[Weighmaster]

I think I read somewhere on the internet that the earth is flat; even considering that apparently some people believe everything they read on said internet, it's probable that it's a very small percentage  However, I have no hard facts or figures re that percentage.  In any case, I personally strongly feel that the earth taken in its entirety is NOT flat.

 

There is of course no statistical validity to this "survey", but so what.  Interesting reading, at least for most of the respondents, myself included.

 

Age 65 and rusting, AF Hudson set at 8, rebuilt 10x20 layout table several times over next seven years.  Then about 10 years inactive, brief interlude in N, then HO since.  NMRA Life and MR subscriber since 1974.  Without layout since 1982, trying to clear SWMBO's "clutter" to give me room to get going again, and resurrect the 30-35 year old brass.  DC because I have all the stuff needed, no desire to run multiples at present, planning mostly shortline possibly based on what  the Iola Northern (WI) might have been had it survived financially.  Absorbed by GB&W (which my dad called the Grab Baggage and Walk), shut down in 1957.  I got a 100 yard ride on the last GB&W Alco switching in Iola at age 12.  Gary

[odave]

My Stats:

Age: 42

Years in Hobby: 6 on, 20 off, 4 back on

Scale: HO

Control: DC (from previous layout), converting to DCC when $$$ allows.

Approach: Proto-freelance

[Forty Niner]

This reminds me of those screwy cable news surveys.......

Mark

[CTValleyRR]

rrebell

Well I tallyed the numbers from the first couple of pages, average age around 50.

Are you calling me below average?

I am 47 years young, and I am not growing old because I am still playing (sorry, GBS).

And while I certainly wouldn't want to appear to be siding with CNJ on this issue -- because I personally am enjoying this discussion immensely, the survey didn't ask about my 7 and 9 year old Modelers..... who are not allowed to participate in on-line forums yet.

[the North East Rail Modeler]

ruderunner

Age of modeler, years in hobby (armchair hobbying counts), scale, DC or DCC, prototype-freelance-protolance

For me:

Age: 16 (17 in May)

Years: about 6-7 (Armchair for most of which. I don't have a layout currently, but I still go and pick up a few locomotives/ railcars to work on every chance I get)

Scale(s): HO and N

DC or DCC: Both, untill I can outfit my non-DCC locomotives with decoders

Prototype-Freelance-Protofreelance: All 3 (I like to model CSX, and Conrail [Still going strong in my version of history], along with my fictional Florida Interstate)

 

[blownout cylinder]

CNJ831

 

secondhandmodeler:

 

Another thing to think about is whether this would be an average age of model railroader, or an average age of model railroaders who use computer forums. 

 

 

An important point, one I made several pages back and that in the latter case will result in significant skewing of any figures derive from this thread's content. Internet surveys only poll a segment of any faction, not a full cross section.

CNJ831

That is true. Even then any survey is necessarily going to be incomplete. It is only through an accumulation of surveys, be it through on-line or phone based, in person, informal, circulation numbers--yes, even them--and quasi/near market surveys done at either trainshows or over the phone using those circulation lists et cetera will you come close to a 'realistic' impression of the hobby as such.

[CNJ831]

secondhandmodeler

Another thing to think about is whether this would be an average age of model railroader, or an average age of model railroaders who use computer forums. 

An important point, one I made several pages back and that in the latter case will result in significant skewing of any figures derive from this thread's content. Internet surveys only poll a segment of any faction, not a full cross section.

CNJ831

[secondhandmodeler]

Another thing to think about is whether this would be an average age of model railroader, or an average age of model railroaders who use computer forums. 

[rrebell]

Well I tallyed the numbers from the first couple of pages, average age around 50.

[XRAY]

• 29 years old
• interested in the hobby for about 23 years, serious about it for about the last 10
• HO Märklin 3-rail DCC
• Proto-freelance 6x1 meter layout

 

[JTG]

Hey, let me in on some of this juvenile entertainment!

I'm 48. Got the bug when I was about 8, when I "inherited" my older brothers' Lionel. I've never lost my interest in the hobby, although there have been times when I've been more active than others. Still, I would say I've been railroadin' for close to 40 years.

Most of my experience was with HO, but I switched to N in the last year. DCC is the only way to go (for me).

I freelance, but with heavy representation from the prototype C&NW and UP. The era is 1954.

Cheers to all who have responded. And somebody please find out who urinated in that one guy's Cheerios.

[mmartian22]

 i"ll put two cents  in, i'am 58 been in and out.and for the last twenty yrs ,finally  got to build my layout  after apeasesing the other half for the larger bedroom..i enjoy building and  running it, will never get tired of it

[THayman]

Suppose I'll pitch in for fun:

Age: 21

Years in hobby: 13 (although years in love with trains would be about 21 ;))

Scale: HO (although I've dabbled a bit in N)

DC/DCC: I haven't done any DCC work yet, but I plan for all future layouts to be DCC (no doubt about it).

Prototype/etc: I'm not strictly a prototype modeller (i.e. every specific detail), although my layout will be loosely based on the CN Kingston Sub (in Ontario), with the focus on VIA Rail operations, and a bit of CN, all in the modern (post-2000) period. However I also have an interest in Maritime Canadian roads, such as the CB&CNS and DEVCO in Cape Breton, and VIA Rail's "The Ocean" (and Bras D'Or, when it ran). So my ultimate layout would really be in two separate parts, with a possible interchange between the two representing the hundreds of km in between. In addition to all this, I also have a freelanced southern-Ontario based regional passenger railroad, just to keep things interesting :P

[blownout cylinder]

ruderunner

It seems to be a common complaint that there's less "new blood" entering this hobby than years ago.  I won't even try to deny that since there are lot's more hobbies to get involved in nowadays.  But I don't think it's all doom and gloom as some folks think.  And since I've not seen anyone put up any actual numbers to confirm the situation, I figured maybe a quick survey to feel the pulse of the hobby is in order.  I'll keep it breif:

Age of modeler, years in hobby (armchair hobbying counts), scale, DC or DCC, prototype-freelance-protolance

I think that covers the big splits, one could ask lots more questions and micro manage this but that may be too much to handle without having professional surveyers doing it.

So I'll start:  age 36, approx 30 yrs, HO, DCC (recent convert), protolance

I think that this is why there is this discussion going on somewhat.A couple of points, some did try to put some kind of numbers up but got discounted as being so much twaddle, even the numbers of subscribers that Kalmbach--remember those circulation number put in the magazines?--got squished as so much subjective nonsense. Yet it is those numbers of subscribers that surveyors would use to identify who was/is in the hobby to begin with...

In this case he did, in point of fact,  claim that this was an informal survey taken...and, yes, professional surveyors could do a better job--but since not many people like to take surveys either--the best that can be done is to get a general idea--in terms of a football field, how well the market really is ...

[HamiltonTransitHistory]

Age: 31

Years in hobby: 20 next summer , armchair for last 6.

Scale: HO

DC

Had a 4x8 HO CN/CP late 1980s branchline layout. I've no layout at the moment, but I'm planning on a small traction layout for my apartment of Hamilton Ontario around WW1. I've also got longer term plans for a Southern Ontario shortline, the York, Simcoe & Northern, to be built whenever I get a house.

[bdpeters]

Being new to this forum and pretty much a beginner in model railroading I found that this was an interesting post. For 1 it made a great subject for my first(trial) post. I also found it interesting how many folks are still using DC for their layouts and the wide variety of interests.

I would in no way be led to believe that this info here is gospel as far as the state of the hobby and doubt anyone else on the forum would take it that way either by coming to the conclusion that the hobby is in doom or anything else like that. Like many others have stated. its fun to see what others are doing and maybe meet a fellow modeler close by or with the same interests.

 

[wholeman]

I have begun to wonder about the future of this hobby.  I am a little overjoyed seeing some younger people on the manufacturers Facebook pages.

So here goes:

Age: 25

Scale: HO

Years: 20

DCC

No layout, currently.

Era: Modern

Road: BNSF, Amtrak

[R. T. POTEET]

 

I have enjoyed reading the responses to this topic.

• AGE: 70;
• YEARS IN HOBBY: 48;
• SCALE(S): HO-SCALE 1962-1982; N-SCALE 1982-PRESENT;
• CONTROL; (CURRENTLY) DC;
• THEME:: FREELANCED (SEABOARD AND WESTERN VIRGINIA RAILWAY) MODERN-ERA CLASS 1.