selector I was doing some last minute shopping yesterday and heard a mini-documentary of a toy factory that was started by a shop skills manager at a Canadian prison. They interviewed the creator of the programme as well as some of the inmates. One clear stand-out observation they had was that, if they wanted to, they could make toy trains year round and sell all they made. They agreed that for some reason, toy trains run like red blood cells in everyone's blood....even today. Everyone is a sucker for a toy train they said. I don't think the hobby can do poorly when that anecdote is heard. It may not do much directly for scale trains and 'serious' modeling, but...perhaps in time some of these people move up to it. Crandell
I was doing some last minute shopping yesterday and heard a mini-documentary of a toy factory that was started by a shop skills manager at a Canadian prison. They interviewed the creator of the programme as well as some of the inmates. One clear stand-out observation they had was that, if they wanted to, they could make toy trains year round and sell all they made. They agreed that for some reason, toy trains run like red blood cells in everyone's blood....even today. Everyone is a sucker for a toy train they said.
I don't think the hobby can do poorly when that anecdote is heard. It may not do much directly for scale trains and 'serious' modeling, but...perhaps in time some of these people move up to it.
Crandell
Prisoner #One: Whatcha in for..??
Prisoner #Two: Modeling a Pennsy M1a with Stephenson valve gear and a Wootten firebox.
Prisoner #One: (with a low whistle) Oh, a lifer, eh?
John
I'm 22, have been in the hobby for about 14 years (only seriously the last 2 or 3), HO scale, DCC-ready but currently DC, and protolance but want to make my eventual layout fairly prototypical.
47, first layout at 12. Back in the hobby for about 10 years, still no permanent layout yet though. (Making some progress though)
However, a comment about the "Young Blood" part- having a zillion years in the hobby is *NOT* an indicator of young blood (though still young at heart :-)I don't think trains are pulling 'em in like they used to-- even in the "computer" and "gaming" age-- games like "Trainz", "MS TrainSim", "Railroad Tycoon", "TrainPlayer", etc. just aren't getting huge sales. Sure they did get enough to barely squeak out some sequels but not enough to be considered blockbusters of runaway hits.
I must admit when I was in my teens I gave up on model trains for a few years, 4-5 the most, and re-enter in my 20. I have spent many sleepless nights looking at others HO modelers layouts pics, websites, and videos to carve and design my own layout design. I'm putting my HO layout up at the end of this year heading into the new year.
I'm 21 years old, freelance
4--6 (before 16 yrs old)
2-present (after 16 yrs old)
HO and DCC as of 12/24/2010
Age 42, Approx 35 years in the hobby. HO Scale Recent DCC convert also. PRR all the way.
Sam
59, Currently in the midst of the fifth rebuild of a track plan originated by Linn Wescott that was first published as "HO Railroad That Grows". Each generation has lasted about 10 years on average before I find myself starting over again. Still working with the original piece of 4"x8" plywood, still running DC, though I have a strong sense of how operations would be improved by migrating to DCC.What I now have with my little Cascade Valley RR is a homage to the days in the 70's and 80's when branch lines were being shed by the major lines. This railroad now is a mythical shortline/ bridge line/ interchange line that survives on the cheap, tucked in between the UP and the old BN. Best description would be freelanced with a healthy dose of prototype as it might have been built into the overall plan.
Merry Christmas to all,
Don H.
Late to the game but....
34 years old with an almost 4 year old assisting. I'm HO and he's O scale. I'm PRR, he's Union Pacific (he likes the colors). We both just started about 2 years ago due to an errant trip to the hobby shop and my son seeing the trains on display (thank Thomas the Trains for his original interest).
I had a train set back when I was about 8 but lord knows who made it anymore and I know it was donated many years ago.
Well looks like this has slowed down so I guess I'll start tallying results. Nice quiet weekend project and I'll try to post up maybe tomorrow or day after.
Maybe I can learn how to get my spreadsheet program to do something more than averages.
And we shall see if there's anything surprising...
Modeling the Cleveland and Pittsburgh during the PennCentral era starting on the Cleveland lakefront and ending in Mingo junction
ok, 43 years old, 36 years in the hobby, still have the first HO train set my dad got me, it was a Poloroid Train set, still have all the cars and engine and they still work, track and transformer is long gone. Good ol' AHM equipment. Right now in transition from DC to DCC with alot of older equipment to retro, I am a hybred freelance/protolance it loosely covers the late 50's early 60's in the back waters of WV coal country on the B&O with interchange with C&O and Pennsy, and a small interchange with WM. My layout is 70' X 52' on a double mainline with 2 major classification yards and passenger station.
Almost 16, been in the hobby for about 7 years, HO, DCC, protolance.
Modeling New Haven despite what his user name says...
IRONROOSTER Frankly, targeting the baby boomers makes sense to me. This group (45-64) are in their peak earning years, kids have been launched, many have the house paid off. But most still work so leisure time is still limited. And we do in fact see a lot of high end RTR products across all the scales. The toy train market is jumping. ... Paul
Frankly, targeting the baby boomers makes sense to me. This group (45-64) are in their peak earning years, kids have been launched, many have the house paid off. But most still work so leisure time is still limited. And we do in fact see a lot of high end RTR products across all the scales. The toy train market is jumping.
...
Paul
Not only are many still pulling in a hefty salary, but quite a few are soon to come into some serious inheritance money. That'll encourage the hobby in a big way...their money will continue to influence what shows up in newly announced products for years to come. And that means steam will continue to hold pace for the foreseeable future. For the BB's, that's practically an average of another 20 years. Then, steam will have to drop its fire.
ruderunner,
Maybe it is a combination of a loosely defined nostalgia in conjunction with an interest in a certain time, area, place.
As an example, I have an interest in the old west and have always wondered what it was like living in those days. Maybe this is not a strict definition of nostalgia; however, for me it is a nostalgia generated by my research and imagination, not necessarily an actual experience.
Thanks again for your survey, it has proven to be of great interest....
Wayne
Modeling HO Freelance Logging Railroad.
ruderunner I'm not sure I buy into the Nostalgia arguement. To be sure it does have an effect on some older modelers but for the younger group maybe not. The under 20 group should all be modeling BNSF or UP double stacks but they don't. Many model steam and second gen diesels and such, items which disappeared long before they were born. No nostalgia if you didn't live through it.
I'm not sure I buy into the Nostalgia arguement. To be sure it does have an effect on some older modelers but for the younger group maybe not. The under 20 group should all be modeling BNSF or UP double stacks but they don't. Many model steam and second gen diesels and such, items which disappeared long before they were born. No nostalgia if you didn't live through it.
Ruderunner, you miss the point that the impact of "toy train nostalgia" is essentially limited to those of the Baby Boomer generation and does not exist thereafter. Slot cars largely replaced toy train sets as the following generation's childhood major transportation toy. That's why one cannot detect any significant degree of toy train nostalgia among them. It also explains exactly why there are progressively fewer and fewer new hobbyists today in ages from 40 years on down. I would also point out that in MR's 1950 readership survey, 20% were listed as teenagers. Today it amounts to a fraction of one percent!
CNJ831
Perhaps more importantly is a fact that has been brought up many times before, mainly that trains in general are a much smaller part of life today than 50 years ago.
To wit, I model the PC which disappeared a couple years before I was born, I collect vintage cars most older than I, So how does nostalgia play in?
I'm 65 years old and have been in model railroading since last march. My layout is an HO 9' x 12' DC freelance. My son gave me a membership in this website last father's day. My grandson, corbyn (10 years old) and I spend a lot of time together building this layout. My wife even got involved, doing the landscaping. This is a hobby that can bring people of all ages together for many hours of fun. This forum has been more help to me than any of you will ever know.
thanx corbyn city george (CCG)
AGE: 57
YEARS: 53 I started with a windup train set at 4. Got an electric set at 5, and an AF set at 6. At age 8 built my first kit in HO. Been "doing it" ever since.
SCALE: HO
ERA: 1945-1949
PROTOLANCE SRR with my own shortline the Alabama Central
POWER: DCC x12yrs
Carey
Keep it between the Rails
Alabama Central Homepage
Nara member #128
NMRA &SER Life member
AGE: 56
YEARS: 22
ERA: 90's to present
PROTOLANCE NS & CSX...3RD layout under construction
JUICE: DCC
Age: 55
Years in Hobby (not counting the obligatory Kid's Train Set days): About 30.
Scale: HO
DCC/DC: DCC
Freelance/Prototype/Proto-freelance: Proto-freelance (but closer to Freelance than prototype!)
"And the sons of Pullman porters and the sons of engineers ride their father's magic carpet made of steel..."
Doughless CNJ831: It is already very well known, ruderunner, eactly who consitututes the "new blood" in the hobby today. By example, just look at who the target audience is in the eyes of the World's Greatest Hobby organization. Their mission statement indicates that one of their prime objectives is: "...to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men between the ages of 45 and 64." (quoted directly from their official page) Likewise, extrapolating from 50 years of published MR reader surveys, the average hobbyist's age can be rather reliably set at 60 currently, give or take a year or so. CNJ831 That's interesting CNJ. It sounds like your more informed about this subject than many. I wonder if the results of the informal survey will yield similar results. One thing, just taking from what you wrote exclusively, are you saying that the age of new blood typically is between 45 and 64 because WGH believes that is when people tend to enter the hobby? Or, do you think they target that group because that's not when people begin to enter the hobby but because that tends to be the group that has the highest level of disposable income? Since people tend to be at their peak income earning level during those years, perhaps that's when they begin to spend the most money on hobbies such as trains. A little of both reasons perhaps?
CNJ831: It is already very well known, ruderunner, eactly who consitututes the "new blood" in the hobby today. By example, just look at who the target audience is in the eyes of the World's Greatest Hobby organization. Their mission statement indicates that one of their prime objectives is: "...to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men between the ages of 45 and 64." (quoted directly from their official page) Likewise, extrapolating from 50 years of published MR reader surveys, the average hobbyist's age can be rather reliably set at 60 currently, give or take a year or so. CNJ831
It is already very well known, ruderunner, eactly who consitututes the "new blood" in the hobby today. By example, just look at who the target audience is in the eyes of the World's Greatest Hobby organization. Their mission statement indicates that one of their prime objectives is:
"...to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men between the ages of 45 and 64." (quoted directly from their official page)
Likewise, extrapolating from 50 years of published MR reader surveys, the average hobbyist's age can be rather reliably set at 60 currently, give or take a year or so.
That's interesting CNJ. It sounds like your more informed about this subject than many. I wonder if the results of the informal survey will yield similar results.
One thing, just taking from what you wrote exclusively, are you saying that the age of new blood typically is between 45 and 64 because WGH believes that is when people tend to enter the hobby? Or, do you think they target that group because that's not when people begin to enter the hobby but because that tends to be the group that has the highest level of disposable income?
Since people tend to be at their peak income earning level during those years, perhaps that's when they begin to spend the most money on hobbies such as trains. A little of both reasons perhaps?
Indeed, Doughless, I've studied the evolution of the hobby for years, giving me considerable insight into how and why things have developed the way they have. And to answer your question, the "survey" here will only produce skewed results, applicable to just this one site and not really reflecting the actual situation.
Regarding the matter of where the "new blood" in the hobby IS coming from today, this is really quite obvious. It is largely men beyond middle-age who, as small children, experienced the great toy train boom that occurred from the late 1940's to the early 1960's. One might say that through today's model trains they are in a fashion subconsciously reliving happy memories from their youth. Those who did not live through that era cannot begin to appreciate the significance Lionel, Flyer and Marx trains held for young boys back then. In that time Lionel and in fact electric trains in general, were regarded as truly the third arm of Christmas.
There's an old saying that goes, "Every man has a mistress and her name is Nostalgia." This is very true and it can be seen reflected in many other ways today. Look at how older men, now in their peak earning years, are buying up classic muscle cars from the 60's and 70's, as well as manufacturers offering modern versions of them for that same customer base. Lionel, which almost went belly-up several times in the 1970-1990 period, has seen a resurgence in its sales over the past decade...but not to children. Instead, virtually all sales are to - and for - men in their 50's and older.
The set of circumstances that brought forth the great train hobby boom half a century ago is complex and involved, but was population wide. Just as interest in toy trains soared, so did that for the scale model train hobby, taking it to equally dizzying heights. In 1944 Model Railroader magazine indicated that there were around 16,000 model railroaders in the United States and Canada. By 1950 the number had ballooned to 100,000! At the same time the average age of a hobbyist was 30 and only 5% of model railroaders were reportedly over 50!
Such an explosion in interest is unique and the circumstances that created it will never come in combination again.
But there are still several economy lines available in HO. Unfortunately, many of them are looked down on instead of being seen as a viable alternative for those with limited means. So you seldom see articles on sprucing them up with a little paint, filing some window casting a little thinner, etc. You don't see it on featured layouts very often anymore, but I remember when a lot of layouts in MR showed the Atlas passenger station and signal tower (currently listing for $12 and $15 dollars, but frequently discounted).
So while it's not free, I think the hobby can be done on small budgets of $25-$50 a month. Just recognize that this can be a very satisfying hobby even if the layout is not museum quality (and price). Personally, I started with Tyco and Atlas and had a lot of fun.
Enjoy
DigitalGriffin Joe Fugate's webzine had an editorial about "the greying of our hobby." The basic supposition was that those who have the time, money, and skills to create a good layout are all older. So a majority of model RR's being older is to be expected given what is needed to build a good sized layout. While I agree with the statement, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion the hobby is still healthy. It's up to us to promote the hobby with lots of good will and invitations to friends to come and see how enjoyable the hobby can be.
Joe Fugate's webzine had an editorial about "the greying of our hobby."
The basic supposition was that those who have the time, money, and skills to create a good layout are all older. So a majority of model RR's being older is to be expected given what is needed to build a good sized layout.
While I agree with the statement, I'm not sure I agree with the conclusion the hobby is still healthy.
It's up to us to promote the hobby with lots of good will and invitations to friends to come and see how enjoyable the hobby can be.
That is the point. Even most people I've talked to who own LHS's do agree to some extent that the furtherance of the hobby depends upon bringing younger people into the hobby as such. And that one way to do this is to actually think about what is actually affordable ....now.
The demand for more and more realistic models, coupled with the higher costs of labor and material combine to put a spanner into that...
...and before anyone assumes that one can do the evilbay thing one only has to see what is going on with prices there as well...
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
At the annual train show in my part of Oz, there appeared to be a record crowd. Maybe your idea is not entirely correct,that the hobby is dying a slow death. However for the record --------
my age...76
time in the game...6months
DCC, and not much else yet!!!
Basil Brush
What stands out to me is th blowing away of the myth that on an online site we are likely to only see the younger modelers, those who have grown up with computers. There seems to be some misconception that older genrations aren't cable of learnign this stuff - clearly false.
As for percentage of income, sure, as an adult, percentage of disposable income spend on the hobby may be lower than when we were kids, hoever the far lower percentage generally trnaslates into far more actual dollars.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
AGE: 58
YRS: I received an American Flyer train set for Christmas back in the 1950's. I returned into HO trains in 1980. Joined the McDonnell Douglas St. Louis RR club (Now the Boeing Employees St Louis RR Club) in 1981. I still have my old AF set, but model HO.
Power: DC
Freelance:
I model a freelance bridge RR The Missouri & Arkansas Railway used by the CB&Q & MKT. The location is in Eastern Missouri. The line starts out at Old Monroe Mo. on the Cuivre River at MO. State Highway 79, then goes west to Hawk Point Mo. From Hawk Point the line swings south along MO. State Highway 47 where it crosses the old Wabash / Norfolk & Western RR line near Warrenton Mo. The line continues south thru Missouri Wine Country to connect with MKT near Marthasville Mo. near State Highway 94. Since this is "My" railroad most places will have the "flavor" of this area but may not be perfect to the prototype. Time is pre Burlington Northern (1970). The location & time frame gives me a lot of room of the type of motive power I can use plus pre-merger freight cars from so many different Railroads from all over the country. As with many railroads built in the 1800’s they never reached all the way as planned. So they never made it all the way to Arkansas. #1 This will be a point to point RR built on Hollow-core doors (about $24 ea) along two walls, so it will be in sections. #2 It's going to be less track, no large yards, no switch machines, open staging, & simple engine service area. #3 Just a few small towns with one or two sidings. #4 More open scenery between towns. #5 Interchange with the MKT on the West end & the CB&Q on the East end.
I model a freelance bridge RR The Missouri & Arkansas Railway used by the CB&Q & MKT. The location is in Eastern Missouri. The line starts out at Old Monroe Mo. on the Cuivre River at MO. State Highway 79, then goes west to Hawk Point Mo. From Hawk Point the line swings south along MO. State Highway 47 where it crosses the old Wabash / Norfolk & Western RR line near Warrenton Mo. The line continues south thru Missouri Wine Country to connect with MKT near Marthasville Mo. near State Highway 94. Since this is "My" railroad most places will have the "flavor" of this area but may not be perfect to the prototype. Time is pre Burlington Northern (1970). The location & time frame gives me a lot of room of the type of motive power I can use plus pre-merger freight cars from so many different Railroads from all over the country. As with many railroads built in the 1800’s they never reached all the way as planned. So they never made it all the way to Arkansas.
#1 This will be a point to point RR built on Hollow-core doors (about $24 ea) along two walls, so it will be in sections.
#2 It's going to be less track, no large yards, no switch machines, open staging, & simple engine service area.
#3 Just a few small towns with one or two sidings.
#4 More open scenery between towns.
#5 Interchange with the MKT on the West end & the CB&Q on the East end.
Age 50, 38 years in hobby, HO scale, DCC, protolance
-- Steve
Ahh the almighty dollar. One reason I tried to avoid questions about hobby spending, size of layout, brass, etc etc etc. Yep, boomers have the bucks and they probably spend the most as a group. An interesting twist beyond the scope of what I'm attempting is: how much of someones disposable income, as a percentage, do they devote to this hobby? I know when I was in my teens and got into cars close to 90% of my disposable income went to that hobby, now as I approach middle age it's perhaps 20%.
Money may affect someones ability to particpate but does not affect ones interest level. Or said differently, a person who has no money can be very interested in model railroading while the richest man in the world may not give it a second glance. Warren Buffet probably has the "ultimate layout" but does he model?
So while WGH is targeting the boomers, one does have to wonder why? What criteria are they using for that statement? And on and on.
CNJ831 It is already very well known, ruderunner, eactly who consitututes the "new blood" in the hobby today. By example, just look at who the target audience is in the eyes of the World's Greatest Hobby organization. Their mission statement indicates that one of their prime objectives is: "...to conduct a public relations effort coupled with advertising to our target group of men between the ages of 45 and 64." (quoted directly from their official page) Likewise, extrapolating from 50 years of published MR reader surveys, the average hobbyist's age can be rather reliably set at 60 currently, give or take a year or so. CNJ831
- Douglas
16, 6 years (if you count the years where the layout existed for only two months under the three, then 16 years), HO, DC (will eventually go to DCC when $$ permits), protolance.
My Model Railroad: Tri State RailMy Photos on Flickr: FlickrMy Videos on Youtube: YoutubeMy Photos on RRPA: RR Picture Archives