Oddly enogh, I am not a very big fan of TK's column. It's odd because I am such a huge fan of all his other work. I believe this is because most of his columns seem too philasophical to me rather than practical. That said, I consider his recent book on multi-level layouts to be a bible for my layout, and I have read his article in this month's MR on the steel viaduct at least a dozen times so far. Jamie
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It is so funny how I am labeled a TROLL just because I expressed I did not like him. Just because I did not jump on this LOVE WAGON with the rest of the people I am the OUTCAST. Whatever!
I am also free to express my personal opinion and I said I do not care for Tony Koester and I am not a fan. Had I said I did not care for Monsterrailroad everyone would agree with the statement and it would have been totally fine.
As I said He focuses on all old school and old era stuff and what he writes is of NO interest to me. I also feel that when a newcomer comes on IF he should be a New Yorker and a modern era guy we would see more of it in the magazine and then I would find it to be more of my personal taste. Tony Koester to me does come off as a MR KNOWITALL kind of model railroader that is given so much praise for it. Just look at Novembers MR magazine it is AGAIN just like every month full of steam era layouts and it just gets tiring thats all. Change the game a little bit MR and get a NEW guy in to contribute.
now if I am still labeled as a TROLL for saying this, well fine, so be it.
jwhitten I love reading Tony's columns. I often pull out old editions of MR just to re-read them from time-to-time. Somehow I invariably pull out one that has something relevant to what I'm thinking about or doing, so it just fits right in. I am very glad that Tony writes his column and will happily read them and absorb what I can, each time around! :-) John
I love reading Tony's columns. I often pull out old editions of MR just to re-read them from time-to-time. Somehow I invariably pull out one that has something relevant to what I'm thinking about or doing, so it just fits right in. I am very glad that Tony writes his column and will happily read them and absorb what I can, each time around! :-)
John
The first thing that I read when my MR comes in is Tony's column. Although there may be a one off article that provides great technical value or insight , IMO, Tony's column is consistently, the most information rich part of the magazine.
Peter Smith, Memphis
I have read Tony's columns on a number of occasions, and while I sometimes disagree with him, they have made for interesting reading, and I would not use this as an opportunity to bash him or his work.
However, after my 37 years in this hobby, and with the time and budget constraints of family and small children at home, I do things differently. I'm not seeking to emulate the degree of realism Tony's layouts have provided, but am only trying to please myself and the one son who is still into trains.
I do believe, in general, the staff of MR and some related publications is growing more out of touch with some folks in this hobby. I generally only read MR for the New Product Reviews. Most of the articles just don't do anything at all for me--they just are not writing about topics or railroads in which I have any interest at all. I don't need DCC and get tired of hearing about it.
My current interest is modeling Lehigh Valley as well as what has happened to the Anthracite Railroads in the years since April 1, 1976--how operations have vanished or changed--and what still remains/what traffic remains on those rail lines today.
Backing up a bit ... what exactly must I do in order to get a free A&M car sent to me ?? I'm not a critic of Tonys by any means but perhaps I can fake it ??
RS
Irv,It was Tony Koester and Allen McClelland that got me thinking about a lot of things to include improving my understanding of designing a believable freelance railroad..I had the general idea from reading articles on short lines in Trains and Model Railroader but,wanted to smooth the rough edges.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
mononguy63 Boy, nothing gets the ol' blood pumping around here like another really good TK thread... I wasn't a TK fan for a long time. His emphasis on research and realistic operations was just something in which I had no interest. But after reading his stuff for a while, I came to realize 1) we're both Purdue grads 2) the NKP he's now modeling interchanged with my Monon and 3) many of the locations he describes in his stories are locations I recognize and know, which is pretty cool. Now I can work from the perspective of what I have in common with him instead of what I don't, and as a result I've come to enjoy his columns very much.
Boy, nothing gets the ol' blood pumping around here like another really good TK thread...
I wasn't a TK fan for a long time. His emphasis on research and realistic operations was just something in which I had no interest. But after reading his stuff for a while, I came to realize 1) we're both Purdue grads 2) the NKP he's now modeling interchanged with my Monon and 3) many of the locations he describes in his stories are locations I recognize and know, which is pretty cool. Now I can work from the perspective of what I have in common with him instead of what I don't, and as a result I've come to enjoy his columns very much.
That's the point. Most of us do have soemthing in common with Tony Koester whether we realize it or not. We're all model railroaders. The fact that we may not have the same loyouts or layout skills just means that we are different as well and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that because it makes the world alot more interesting.
Two guys influenced my train hobby. One of them is Tony Koester. The other is Allen McClellsnd snd both of them have one thing in common: They both had large layouts that were desighned for operarions. I have never operated on any layout even though I've dreamed abour it. The reason for that is that I until 2008 I didn't belong to a club. I belong to one now but that club doesn't operate. It's an N-Trak club as is geared tyoward doing displays rather than operating.
I think it's important that we realize that real trains are toys. They provide a necessary service that isn't allways available as cheaply by other means of transportation. So if you want to get the true meaning of what modern freaight transportation is like, you really can't find it in any other way than actually operating your layout. That doesn't mean running you train around an oval of track because that gets old very quickly. Tomy got me to realize that long ago. But what he hasn't done is show how to develop such a model railroad. Indeed no one really has not even John Armstrong.
Irv
"I am lapidary but not eristic when I use big words." - William F. Buckley
I haven't been sleeping. I'm afraid I'll dream I'm in a coma and then wake up unconscious. -Stephen Wright
corsair7 First of all model railroading isn't an inexpensive hobby with the average locomotive costing $100 or more and teh average freight car costing in the $20 range it just isn't within the average kids budget (allowance) to be able to spend that kind of money nowadays much less within the average adults budget. Add to that the amount of time one needs to devote to one's school work, job, signofocan others and familes and you've got a situation where having a hobby is soething one has to leave until retirement. So where is the new blood any hobby needs to prosper and survive? Irv
First of all model railroading isn't an inexpensive hobby with the average locomotive costing $100 or more and teh average freight car costing in the $20 range it just isn't within the average kids budget (allowance) to be able to spend that kind of money nowadays much less within the average adults budget. Add to that the amount of time one needs to devote to one's school work, job, signofocan others and familes and you've got a situation where having a hobby is soething one has to leave until retirement. So where is the new blood any hobby needs to prosper and survive?
Yes & no to some extent. On a relative basis, cars & locomotives aren't any more expensive than when I was a kid years ago. I would have to save for months to buy a single locomotive or a couple of cars. On the other hand, I didn't need a dozen locomotives or 200 cars. A 4x8 or maybe self was great to have. Structures -- we called it scratchbuilding with balsa, paper, and paint. A couple of dollars vs the hundred or so for a large structure today or even $30-$40 for an already completed, ready to run (oxymoron??) structure. In many ways I contend the bar has been set to high by the over representation of highly detailed mega layouts in the press combined with the need for instant results. I'm glad to see more smaller layouts shown in MR because it represents where most model railroaders actually are rather than the top 10%, of which Tony Koester is probably among.
For example, let's take the staging yard argument that was discussed above. If you have plenty of room, it's easy to devote a good space to hidden staging (or in another room or somewhere out of sight). On the other hand, if you have a very small room, it is much harder to give up that space from the visible railroad (as I recall, Tony has always been an advocate of hidden staging as opposed to visible staging). In my small railroad, fully one third of the space is staging. As the overall size of the layout goes up, the relative percentage devoted to staging will usually go down, making it more emotionally acceptable.
And yes, I'm going to now link those two paragraphs for the point. Intentionally or unintentionally, we have created the appearance that you must have a large space, with large crew, and lots of trains, staging, etc, etc, etc to be a model railroader. Time, space, and money. You must have a lot of all three to be a real model railroader. Or at least that's the message sent. We need to be more inclusive. As someone mentioned above, the HO Railroad that Grows inspired them years ago. We need that inspiration today for the next generation. A railroad they can build over time with economical materials.
grizlump9 we are all but as God made us, and some of us are much worse. i think we are lucky to have Tony and guys like him in this hobby. problem as i see it, if indeed it is a problem, is that for whatever reason there are fewer people contributing to the magazine. therefor, poor Tony seems to come across like that little know it all kid we had back in grade school who kept waving his hand in the air in response to everything the teacher said. sort of like Martin Prince on the Simpsons. he is actually a gifted person who is articulate and knowledgeable. he just seems to monopolize the magazine since there are so few other contributors. without him, Model Railroader would look like a weekly, hick town newspaper. grizlump
we are all but as God made us, and some of us are much worse. i think we are lucky to have Tony and guys like him in this hobby. problem as i see it, if indeed it is a problem, is that for whatever reason there are fewer people contributing to the magazine. therefor, poor Tony seems to come across like that little know it all kid we had back in grade school who kept waving his hand in the air in response to everything the teacher said. sort of like Martin Prince on the Simpsons. he is actually a gifted person who is articulate and knowledgeable. he just seems to monopolize the magazine since there are so few other contributors. without him, Model Railroader would look like a weekly, hick town newspaper.
grizlump
It's not that there are fewer contributors. It is that there are fewer model railroaders each year as kids aren't into trains as much as they used to be. So guys like Tony are left to pick up the slack.
Tony happens to be a very talented model railroader and a talented writer and there are fewer of those each year. Why you might ask?
Fellas, trust me, I am entirely neutral on the topic as first posted. Don't have enough history, so I can't evaluate a person's writing except in terms of grammar, logic, and such. So, I don't mind seeing criticism. It should be delivered with some care and consideration, but it isn't always going to be laudatory, and that is what we have here. Let's just let the comment pass, take it for what it is, a dissenting opinion (and stated in general terms that he would like a more 'modern' approach to the hobby...not sure what or why, but that's all we have to go on from voltronman).
Either Koester speaks to you, or he doesn't. All can say how it goes for them. I just ask that we choose our words carefully.
-Crandell
I feel pity for the guys that don't appreciate the old school methods of MRRing. Some of the old school techniques will never go away, (for instance, zip texturing, or building a layout on cookie cutter plywood instead of the fairly recent techniques using foam board.) Personnally, I hate foam board, I find it hard to work with and a lot more messier than working with the old school techniques using plaster.)
Guys like Tony have kept this hobby alive for years . If you think his columns are great, You should see him in action on the Dream, Plan, Build how-to videos. Tony is nothing less than one of the "masters" at work to say the least.....chuck
When I was a young boy in the 1960s, it was Linn Wescott's HO Model Railroad that Grows which I read religiously over and over to learn about the hobby. As an adult, still fascinated by the hobby, I enjoy all master practitioners' articles, including Tony Koester's. Their experiences and their opinions are valuable as resources for today and tomorrow, as each of us learns something new with each hour spent working on our railroads. Rather than nit-pick or opine from a fastidious standpoint, we should treasure the fact that some of us, who have the talent and ability, are able to write about many aspects of the hobby. These are not armchair modelers- they are doers. The growing body of literature that this hobby has maintained is a testament to the selfless efforts of all who share their perspectives. Less criticism and more discussion would be my view for all of us. Thanks, Tony- be assured that you will be read and re-read for years to come!!!!!
Cedarwoodron
Minnesota, Sioux Lake & Western Ry- serving the good folks of the north central farm belt
Voltronman Tony Koester Sorry I am NOT a fan by any means. After he parts the magazine and the world I hope they bring in young UP TO DATE minded person who can speak to the modern guys. He is all old school and I never read his columns with any interest. A young New Yorker model railroader would be a good candidate for his job. When is there going to be a new job opening I ask myself.
Tony Koester
Sorry I am NOT a fan by any means. After he parts the magazine and the world I hope they bring in young UP TO DATE minded person who can speak to the modern guys. He is all old school and I never read his columns with any interest. A young New Yorker model railroader would be a good candidate for his job. When is there going to be a new job opening I ask myself.
Why, oh why, would anyone find it necessary to take on Tony Koester or his monthly column.
It is good stuff, and I read it every month.
25 years of writing this column is more than admirable and provides a sense of continuity in a hobby that recreates the past as much as it promotes the future.
The two guys who took exception to Tony's writing, as he noted in his most recent column, objected to his stance that staging yards are an important part of a layout. What is so objectionable about that view?
Tony, I hope that you are able to write the column for another 25 years.
Rich
Alton Junction
Hi Everyone! I am in a poor position to comment on Tony's columns, but here is what I have to say-I cannot for the life of me understand why anyone in this hobby would express such negative views about anyone's writing. Please, if you disagree, do it in polite terms. I thought that we fellow modelers would at least be civil to each other. OK - there are different ways to do things, but does that justify vitriol? Why? There is so much conflict in the world today that I can't understand why we as RR hobbiests can't rise above that. Let's all try a little harder to respect each other and be polite. If we can't then that gives us precious little separation between us and the disidents and terrorists (dare I say that!). We have an obligation to be civil to each other! So please let's try.
Dave
I'm just a dude with a bad back having a lot of fun with model trains, and finally building a layout!
I think Koester does an decent job. Heck the guy's layouts look awesome - he must know a thing or two. I agree that you don't have to agree with every thing he says (that's kinda the beauty of the hobby). I also find that words can be read and interpreted a thousand different ways by a thousand different people. What may be offensive and snobbish to you may not be to some. This seems to happen quite a bit on forums as well (people sometimes read too much into things). I take what info is useful to me and forget the rest.
I fail to see where Tony is not "up to date". Because he models the 1950's, like an awful lot of peopel do?
I have a fairly complete collection of MR goign back to that very first Trains of Thought column. If you don't think Tony has changed witht he times - he was doing a proto-freelance railroad set in the 70's when he started. Backdated it to the steam era. Then TOTALLY RIPPED IT DOWN and satrted over with a prototype layout. When you have a basement-size layout that supports many operators runnign prototypical operation and totally rip it out to do somethign different - I'd say there's change right there. Remember also when the column started the AM wasn't even 'complete' yet.
--Randy
Modeling the Reading Railroad in the 1950's
Visit my web site at www.readingeastpenn.com for construction updates, DCC Info, and more.
I am sorry, but I find Voltronman´s comment undue and inappropriate.
What is an up to date minded person, who is supposed to speak to the modern guys? This is a sense- and useless statement.
I like Tony´s column, but that does not mean I agree to everything and all he states. Just food for my own thoughts...
Let me guess. You're a "New Yorker" right? Ya figured that as much. Strong words for someone who could easily not read someone's column if they don't like them.
I haven't read a whole lot of Tony's columns, but the few that I have read are very knowledgeable and don't seem to cocky to me.
Michael
CEO- Mile-HI-RailroadPrototype: D&RGW Moffat Line 1989
Hi again!
I fail to understand how anyone can get worked up so negatively about someone's column in a model railroading magazine. If the writer "offends" you so much, then I would urge you not to read their works, or not buy the magazine, or better still, submit your own columns!
I've been involved in this forum for several years, and one of the things I really like is that it proves out that this hobby has so many, many different preferences (i.e. era, scale, RR, operation, locale, etc., etc.), and yes, some of us feel very strongly about them.
But what we have to understand is that there truly is no "right or wrong" in our individual viewpoints on model railroading, and what's really important is that we all love trains!
Now if only MR would dedicate itself to HO, postwar, Santa Fe and Illinois central modeling................
ENJOY !
Mobilman44
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
Sometimes I agree and sometimes I disagree, but his columns are the first thing I read each month. I do think that his wording can sometimes be a bit of "my way or the high way" like Dave N mentioned above. However it does seem to have mellowed over the years into a more affable tone. To speculate a little, the tone and wording may have played more a part of the two gentlemen mentioned than the actual content. I am honest enough to admit that I often found his column infuritating the first few years and at times thought MR needed a point-counterpoint column to balance things out. Now, the only thing I wonder about his column is when he's going to announce the NKP is gone and he's replacing it with his true love -- a large scale version of Peterboro NH in the steam days.
Russell
Tony Koester's column is almost always the first thing I turn to when a new MR arrives, just as Model Railroad Planning is the "extra" issue of MR that I never fail to get, although I have not missed too many Great Model Railroads.
I try to avoid deep and heavy model train discussions if I can, but I have noted that there is something about the whole notion of staging yards that gets fellows to arguing with some heat. More even than DCC. So I am not surprised by his experience with the two readers.
I have to admit that sometimes there is a certain way Koester phrases things that seems guaranteed to annoy and even belittle those who disagree -- maybe this is not an exact quote, but he is prone to start out by saying something like "Most thoughtful (or "advanced" or "modern") modelers now agree that ....." which doesn't say much for those who do NOT agree, be it about prototype modeling, double deck layouts, sound, hidden vs visible staging, timetable and train order operation. It is almost more a writing style thing than anything else.
But his writing is always interesting and I hope we have many more years of the column.
Dave Nelson
I thought his recent column was very interesting. There are always a few that get so worked up and take things so seriously that there is no room for discussion. I thought the story about the AM car he mailed to one of his critics as a peace offering being sent back unopened was hilarious. I have always liked his columns and thought he had a lot of important things to say about the hobby. It is always one of the first things I read when my MR arrives. - Nevin
pastorbob I have been in model railroading for 74 years now, first train at age 6 months from my father who was a Santa Fe engineer and wanted a boy to play trains with. He got it. Since then I have never been without a layout except for a few months in college when I had to discover I could slide a sheet of plywood under a dorm bed. Tony talks about reactions from other model railroaders to his ideas and thoughts, some good and some bad. I have disagreed at times with Tony, but I have been in agreement a larger percent of the time. I picked up a good amount of my layout building ideas from articles by Tony and others in MR and other sources. I was sorry to read about the two gentlemen he mentioned that were on a vendeta against everything he said, but I found that in all the years I served as a pastor, while also working in the computer field, that there were those who agreed with me and those who didn't. I managed to learn a few things from those do didn't including a couple of gentlemen who post on this forum and are "old school" model railroaders. But my Santa Fe in Oklahoma in 1989 (HO) has served me well since the first track was laid in 1984 and I owe much of it to comments from other modelers like Tony. I have had several of the "well knowns" visit over the years, and I believe my books indicate Tony was here at one time also. So just want to say to Tony and others on the MR staff who work to provide info, tips, ideas, on the hobby, "THANKS", because through many of your articles, I have been able to build a better railroad. Robert (Bob) Miller, MMR 138.
I have been in model railroading for 74 years now, first train at age 6 months from my father who was a Santa Fe engineer and wanted a boy to play trains with. He got it. Since then I have never been without a layout except for a few months in college when I had to discover I could slide a sheet of plywood under a dorm bed.
Tony talks about reactions from other model railroaders to his ideas and thoughts, some good and some bad. I have disagreed at times with Tony, but I have been in agreement a larger percent of the time. I picked up a good amount of my layout building ideas from articles by Tony and others in MR and other sources. I was sorry to read about the two gentlemen he mentioned that were on a vendeta against everything he said, but I found that in all the years I served as a pastor, while also working in the computer field, that there were those who agreed with me and those who didn't. I managed to learn a few things from those do didn't including a couple of gentlemen who post on this forum and are "old school" model railroaders.
But my Santa Fe in Oklahoma in 1989 (HO) has served me well since the first track was laid in 1984 and I owe much of it to comments from other modelers like Tony. I have had several of the "well knowns" visit over the years, and I believe my books indicate Tony was here at one time also.
So just want to say to Tony and others on the MR staff who work to provide info, tips, ideas, on the hobby, "THANKS", because through many of your articles, I have been able to build a better railroad.
Robert (Bob) Miller, MMR 138.
WhenI first got involvedd in the hobby in 1977, Tony Koester was the editor of Railroad Model Craftsman. In those days Tony was first building his Alleghany Midland layout and these articles and those on the V & O got me started in HO. It was only a short time later that I realized a garden apartment was no place to build 4 x 8 layout in HO. So I switched to N. That was OK but it didn't fir into the apartment too well either as I had no decicated space for it either. I Still read Tonys column and dreamt of the day when I would have a dedicated space for my layout and that came about in 1982 when we moved into our house and I got 12' 6" x 14 foot room in which to build my dream layout. Tony's influence was at work there and it still is.
While I never completed the first major N Scale layout because work and life got me out of model railroading in 1987. I cam back in 2007 when I retired and decided I needed to do something other than vegetate in front of the TV set tO maintain my sanity. So now I am buildinbg a the Hudson & Hartford which recreates the New York Connecting Railroad as it might have been had carfloating not be virtually killed off in 1970 by the Penn Central and Conrail.
All of my designs have been influenced by Tony in one way or another over the years. I've read and possess mst of what he has written in RMC and his columns in Model Railroader and the books he has written. They are very instructive and none of what he has written has ever give cause to get upset. If anything they've given me a reason to keep working and to find new ways of getting things done.
Thanks, Tony.
A hearty, "Amen," to Pastor Bob Miller. I lack a bit over one year of his seniority, got my first 'real tinplate' Lionel at the age of five months, and agree entirely with what he posted.
I recall that, toward the end of the series on building the Coal Fork branch of the AM, RPO included a letter from someone complaining about, "Too much Koester." My remark (to my wife) was, "If he thinks there's too much Koester, all he has to do is build something as interesting, write it up as thoroughly and convince MR to publish it." As an unpublished author, I know just how easy that is!
I will be referring to those Coal Fork articles as I build the 1:80 scale Tomikawa Tani Tetsudo. The location may be half way around the world, but the concepts, ideas and scenery are remarkably similar.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964)