johngriffey18ca1I'm a young guy fairly new to model railroading, and I have to be honest...the first thing I noticed about Walthers is they list everything at MSRP. I know they have sales from time to time, but they list everything newly released at MSRP and usually can't keep stocked up on items. I am also aware they make model railroad items such as cars, turntables, building kits, etc but as far as sales go how do they stay in business? I get a deal from my LHS and shop around for the best prices on items all the time. I just ordered 9 SD70ACe's for $209 each and free shipping from a website when Walthers wanted $249.99 plus they wanted to charge $40 shipping. I saved $400 on that purchase by shopping around. Is it catalog orders that sell this stuff out or what? I'm confused on who willingly pays MSRP? P.S. If you pay MSRP don't take offense, I just won't do it if I can easily find a cheaper price (like a google search for the product)
I'm a young guy fairly new to model railroading, and I have to be honest...the first thing I noticed about Walthers is they list everything at MSRP. I know they have sales from time to time, but they list everything newly released at MSRP and usually can't keep stocked up on items. I am also aware they make model railroad items such as cars, turntables, building kits, etc but as far as sales go how do they stay in business? I get a deal from my LHS and shop around for the best prices on items all the time. I just ordered 9 SD70ACe's for $209 each and free shipping from a website when Walthers wanted $249.99 plus they wanted to charge $40 shipping. I saved $400 on that purchase by shopping around. Is it catalog orders that sell this stuff out or what? I'm confused on who willingly pays MSRP?
P.S. If you pay MSRP don't take offense, I just won't do it if I can easily find a cheaper price (like a google search for the product)
Well as one poster stated don't take offense but being admittedly new to the hobby you really don't understand the pecking order if you will when it comes to model railroading whole sale distribution. It's like this if you want to be in the model train business there are two places who are the major distributors of all things model railroading. #1 W.K. Walthers the unarguable giant of the industry and #2 Horizon Hobby,they are the two big dogs and then come all the little mom & pop suppliers some who deal through Walthers and some who deal directly with train stores and retail customers.
If you want to be in the model train retail business those are the people you have to deal with no question about it. Their main business is supplying their customers (the train/hobby stores) not the individual customer.
You are also obviously a newbie when you ask a question such as "I'm confused on who willingly pays MSRP?"
When there is a kit that you've been looking for or absolutely have to have you'll be more the happy to pay only retail and not above MSRP. I myself have sold brand new in the box out of production Walthers kits for far more then MSRP and buyers have gladly paid it just because they needed it. When you really want something believe me you will be happy to pay for it.
Of course we all bargain shop and don't feel like you've got an exclusive when it comes to doing Google or any other type of searches for the best possible deals we all do it, when your in this hobby long enough you learn how to sniff out a deal where ever it may be even at Walthers. I have bought many items from them at discounted or sale prices and one thing that you will most definitely get when dealing direct with them as opposed to dealing with an LHS or an internet store is their level of customer service.I purchased the Walthers Roundhouse kt a few years back and wanted more pieces to extend the walls so I could fit larger engines. I called Walthers customer service and they shipped to me FREE of charge. I have gotten defective and some times missing pieces from a Walthers kit, I gave them a call and received the parts in the mail you know what you would get if you purchased the stuff from your LHS or an internet store, oh sorry too bad you opened the box we can't take it back or exchange it with maybe a very small amount of places this is the norm, you buy it you own it and thats that. Walthers being the distributor and having their name out there goes the extra mile to keep customers happy some times that in it self is worth paying a few more dollar. Bottom line is a great number of us buy direct from Walthers but the percentage of those sales compared to that of buying from other sources at least in my own personal experience is around 10% from WKW and the other 90% form various sources.
The "El Cheapo" mentality is not only confined to US consumer behavior, it has reached the entire western world. The hunt for bargains has led to the deterioration of the MSRP, which long has shed its guiding function. The Walthers catalogue has been my guide to model railroading for years. I used it to calculate my shopping list, knowing, that my LHS can get the items of my desire for me, sometimes even with a slight discount. The most important issue was, that I did not have to shop around to get what I wanted, I knew, it was available in short order.
Times have changed. I do have to spend a lot of time chasing the product I want to buy in the internet - not always to get the best deal, but just to get it. Limited runs force me to buy at a time I may not want to buy yet. More than once I missed to get something I wanted. And even if I am able to buy, is it really a bargain? None of us knows, how the MSRP is actually calculated, whether those fantastic discounts have not already been considered. What does that DCC equipped sound loco with a MSRP of $ 399 actually cost, landed in the US? Maybe $ 60 - 80? Even with a discount of 30 - 40 %, there is a lot of money to be earned. Would Walthers, Horizon and the likes be still in business, if there wasn´t any money in it? I doubt that.
I am not bashing Walthers or anybody else for that - it is finally our own behavior, which has fostered this change. But it has led to the demise of the LHS as a stable source of product for our hobby and hinders the entrance of new players into the market. And finally, it costs a lot of jobs, local jobs, not Chinese jobs, as the Chinese by far are not buying products from us to the same extent. Do we really want to deplete our own economy in the long run?
Ok maybe I phrased my original post incorrectly. I realize that MSRP or greater can be paid from time to time with rare or hard to find items. It's done in every other aspect of life. Anyone who has purchased a hard to get new car off the showroom floor knows this. However, I didn't understand how walthers stayed afloat until I found out from you all that they are the largest distributer. Now I know. To those of you who are rude and grumpy saying I'm obviously new, uh I stated that in my post so there is no need for you to look down on me. [Edited for content by selector.] Attitudes and criticizing just scare people away. As for shopping for bargains, this is not going to kill america. If MB Klein can chop 20% off on average, maintain great customer service and pay employees and their own rent/light bill then other companies should be able to as well. I'm not asking for 50 or 60 percent off an item, I'm just looking for a decent deal. I am an overpaid employee of the U.S Government who gets money thrown at me all the time in the form of bonuses, etc. But no one can do what I do without the years of experience I have and the training I have. Therefore, I have no competition so I feel no remorse when my fat bonuses drop into my account. However, Walthers does have competition in the sales market. So if they wanted to excel there they should lower their prices. If they are ok with just kicking butt as a distributer than fine. I understand how they stay afloat now, distributing. But if it wasn't for that, I think they would be out of business.
John,
no need to shout at us "old Farts" by typing in bold. I don´t see, that anyone responding to your post intended to be patronizing, just passing on information you may not have had before.
Just going for bargains is detrimental to an economy in the long run. The effects of such a deflationary process is, that investments into the growth of local businesses are no longer made, as margins shrink. This kills jobs by moving production to seemingly "cheaper" countries, which would not be a problem, if we were able to develop new opportunities at the same rate - which we are not. It is all about a balanced give and take - I am afraid that the "global" economy has left the state of balance.
I am in the process of gutting a hobby store in NJ that has just closed its doors after 57 years. Mail order definitely has killed the Mom & Pop stores. Nothing like sitting at a computer and looking at thousands of items at once, purchasing all from one easy spot. I prefer dealing with a hobby shop. Go in, talk about the product. Actually see the product. Get one on one service. But if you are at a hobby shop you can't be somewhere else at the same time. Walther's may be high, there are other, cheaper sites. But the fact of the matter is people will pay more for convenience. So here is to your local hobby shop. It may be here today but gone tomorrow. One has complete freedom of choice how they want to deal and purchase equipment. Enjoy it and take advantage while you can. (By the way, we used to get our inventory from Horizon & Walther's.)
johngriffey18ca1 If MB Klein can chop 20% off on average, maintain great customer service and pay employees and their own rent/light bill then other companies should be able to as well.
Did you read any of my posts? MB Klein sells at 20% of buying almost everything direct from the manufacturers just like a wholesale house, as do all the other big discounters, Train World, etc.
Small shops buying from distributors have a hard time or need REALLY low overhead to make it if they are selling at 20% and buying from Distributors like Walthers.
So you need big sales volume to buy enough to buy direct from the manufacturers. They will not sell a small shop one of this, two of that. You must buy larger quanitities, usually case lots or at least a larger dollar value on each order.
Sheldon
I like MB Klein, but they are not really a LHS anymore. They are an internet business, that has a couple of small sales rooms on site. They are not located in a shopping center, but in an industrial park. The last time I went there, I had to use one of their in-store computers to order over the internet with in store pick up - keeps their on line inventory up-to-date. Their prices are discounted and their service is great - my favorite place to order.
What is going on with hobby shops is no different than other types of businesses. Either you find a way to compete on other than price or you discount. Most small shops can't compete either way and disappear. It happens with grocery stores, bookstores, hardware stores, etc. Fairfax County, VA where I used to live has had the highest or second highest household income for years (they trade back and forth with Loudoun County next door), and even there the hobby shops keep disappearing - the few that are left with trains are mostly Lionel dealers.
Enjoy
Paul
johngriffey18ca1I am an overpaid employee of the U.S Government who gets money thrown at me all the time in the form of bonuses, etc. But no one can do what I do without the years of experience I have and the training I have.
Welcome brother
Sir MadogJust going for bargains is detrimental to an economy in the long run. The effects of such a deflationary process is, that investments into the growth of local businesses are no longer made, as margins shrink. This kills jobs by moving production to seemingly "cheaper" countries, which would not be a problem, if we were able to develop new opportunities at the same rate - which we are not. It is all about a balanced give and take - I am afraid that the "global" economy has left the state of balance.
I wonder about how the search for the lowest cost item affects quality control in the long run. Look at what just happened in the auto sector--JDPower released figures showing Ford at the top. The lowest cost is not necessarily the best in terms of quality build. It has always been a bone of contention amongst many people in the electronics field as well.
This is one of many reasons why there is a lot of scepticism about the "global" economy
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinderLook at what just happened in the auto sector--JDPower released figures showing Ford at the top.
In 1991 FORD was supposed to be building cars "as good as the Japanese". It was a lie back then. It's been 19 years now and I am supposed to believe that FORD is once again building cars as good as the Japanese? I'll give them 10 years from now. If the cars they build today in 2010 have a reliablity track record as good as Toyota, or Honda, then I'll buy. But it will be 2020 before I throw $30,000 at a FORD again.
Oh Please: Do not start on autos. This is MR. As for Walthers. It's the same as anything. You pays your money and you takes your choice. If you Gov't employees are so overpaid, why wasn't I? I'm retired Gov't Emp and am just barely making it. My MR budget is so low, it takes me 6 months to save enough to buy something for my hobby. And with all the competition for our $.!! Look at grocery prices. Enough! As for buying from Walthers. I have never done so. I buy from LHS & online & mail order. I can call my LHS and if they have it in stock or order it, and ship to me. Any way we shop is good. I also never shop eBay, Craig's List, or whatever.But y'all can do so if you desire. It's called free market. It's also "el caveat emptor"! Finally, it is Not true that you get what you pay for. A BLI engine is a BLI engine whether you pay $399.95 plus shipping plus tax OR $350.00 including tax & shipping. The loco is the same. One source is not going to open the box & ruin your purchase. Some years ago I purchased an Athearn Mike with DCC/sound for $200 or so. It had a bad axle/wheel. The purchased source said "Call Athearn". And after that, I had to pay the shipping to send to Athearn. That was the last Athearn product I've ever bought. They produced an inferior product and didn't even have the decency to send me my shipping cost. Was that because I didn't buy it direct from Athearn? Duh! They didn't care where I bought it from, and they did replace the broken/bad parts and returned it to me. Sorry I rambled on here. All IMHO of course.
Driline blownout cylinderLook at what just happened in the auto sector--JDPower released figures showing Ford at the top. In 1991 FORD was supposed to be building cars "as good as the Japanese". It was a lie back then. It's been 19 years now and I am supposed to believe that FORD is once again building cars as good as the Japanese? I'll give them 10 years from now. If the cars they build today in 2010 have a reliablity track record as good as Toyota, or Honda, then I'll buy. But it will be 2020 before I throw $30,000 at a FORD again.
Ford stops when you push the brake pedal.
You support your local LHS, but not your local auto manufacturer?.....
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
ATLANTIC CENTRALDid you read any of my posts? MB Klein sells at 20% of buying almost everything direct from the manufacturers just like a wholesale house, as do all the other big discounters, Train World, etc.
I'm sorry, but I'm having just a bit of trouble believing that Klein gets "almost everything" direct from the manufacturer. Maybe a few things direct, but I think they must get a lot of their items from a distributor (or distributors) just like everyone else. It just does not make business sense to me, especially in this day and age, to have a person who's sole job would be to issue multiple small orders to multiple small vendors when it would be much more convenient to sit down and place one large order with a distributor, WKW for example. I looked at Klein's vendor list and I think I counted almost 100 of them. Of course, some had no items listed. But others had one or two items, and others had multiple pages of items.
So far as the 20% off goes, I did a random calculation on random items. Bachmann engines seem to be the percent off champ - around 40%. But there did not seem to be a great selection. Proto 2000 items seemed to be 30% off and Athearn engines seemed to be 25% to 30% off. And since these items are from Walthers and Athearn, I guess that qualifies them as coming from distributors. Atlas engines were around 30% off. I have no idea if Klein deals direct with Atlas or goes through a distributor.
The remaining items I looked at, which were in the 20% off range, were from Cannon and Company (a brakewheel); Faller (brickpaper); Kibri (a structure), and a MV lens. It just does not seem likely that Klein would have someone dedicated to purchasing from all these little vendors.
I will concede that Kleins buys direct in some cases. But then if they are selling new Athearn or Walthers items, they would almost have to do their purchasing from Walthers or Horizon Hobby, would they not? It is my opinion that Kleins is able to keep their prices low by making large volume purchases from a minimum number of distributors, not small volume purchases from a bunch of little vendors.
And someone mentioned Trainworld. As I type this I'm looking at the Trainworld ad on the right side of the screen. They call themselves "the closeout kings". Reminds me of "Ollies...good stuff cheap". I have a hard time believing that they are approaching the manufacturers and asking to make a deal on a purchase in the hobby store sense. I think it's much more likely that they are either approaching the manufacturers and saying "okay, this is what I offer to take a whole bunch of excess inventory off your hands seeing as how next Friday is payday and you probably could use the cash to pay your bills", or are being approached by the same manufacturers asking "how much to take this stuff off our hands because we've got new stuff arriving tomorrow".
Anyway, just my opinion.
Springfield PA
maxmanSo far as the 20% off goes, I did a random calculation on random items. Bachmann engines seem to be the percent off champ - around 40%. But there did not seem to be a great selection. Proto 2000 items seemed to be 30% off and Athearn engines seemed to be 25% to 30% off. And since these items are from Walthers and Athearn, I guess that qualifies them as coming from distributors. Atlas engines were around 30% off. I have no idea if Klein deals direct with Atlas or goes through a distributor.
Athearn/Horizon and Walthers are the SOLE source of their products, they distribute them themselves. No other wholesalers sell them. That makes it different because they do sell THEIR OWN PRODUCTS at a discount that is lower than the traditional dealer discount from other multi line distributors. Example - Walthers no longer distributes Athearn and Athearn/Horizon sells Athearn at a discount lower than the traditional 40%, it is actually 55% off IIRC.
Kleins is doing EXACTLY what I discribed in one of my other posts, stuff is priced based on cost, Bachmann which has a big discount direct form Bachmann is discounted 40%, Athearn which has an in between discount is discounted accordingly. The fact that Walthers brand products like Proto are discounted more than 20% shows clearly that Walthers is giving a big dealer like Kleins more than the standard 40% off - Why, because they can as both the manufacturer and distributor in one and dealers the size of Kleins buy enough to make that a good deal for Walthers.
Atlas, I'm sure they buy it direct, as does Train World and many others.
Kadee - anyone in this business can but it direct if they buy enough.
Sure they fill in some types of products and some lines from distributors, but in terms of dollars, 80-90% is likely bought direct by dealers like Kleins.
And, the whole point of buying direct is to buy in large enough quanities to then HAVE IT ON HAND and not have to be re-ordering it all the time. You become your own warehouse/distributor - that's why you need the higher volume of selling on the internet.
But what do I know, I just used to work in that business and and have been self employed most of my life.
Hamltnblue
Sorry to have bored you with an opinion.
Well, I wouldn't reply with a 'snorey', maxman but I do believe that the middle man of yesteryear is soon to be as plentiful as the dodo. I wouldn't look for any national conventions to attend ifyaknowhaddamean? Seriously, they are unnecessary these days, and just another leach/mouth-to-feed in the network that hobby businesses can do without.
Having said that, though, my local hobby shop (closed since the summer of '07) did order from his 'supplier(s)', and in some cases it was a middle person. Usually it was direct from Walthers or Digitrax...whatever.
-Crandell
Stopping in long enough to mention to those folks who might need a reminder, don't believe everything you read on the internet. There are some statements and figures in this thread that are not correct. Just sayin'.... carry on.
selector Well, I wouldn't reply with a 'snorey', maxman but I do believe that the middle man of yesteryear is soon to be as plentiful as the dodo. I wouldn't look for any national conventions to attend ifyaknowhaddamean? Seriously, they are unnecessary these days, and just another leach/mouth-to-feed in the network that hobby businesses can do without. Having said that, though, my local hobby shop (closed since the summer of '07) did order from his 'supplier(s)', and in some cases it was a middle person. Usually it was direct from Walthers or Digitrax...whatever. -Crandell
Seems to be that there are a lot of middle men out there though to feed---- Now---if'n we got the LHS's together to actually buy lock stock and pickle barrel from the mfg's en mass as it were then you just might be on to something-----
One Track Mind Stopping in long enough to mention to those folks who might need a reminder, don't believe everything you read on the internet. There are some statements and figures in this thread that are not correct. Just sayin'.... carry on.
Specificly?
PennsyNutSome years ago I purchased an Athearn Mike with DCC/sound for $200 or so. It had a bad axle/wheel. The purchased source said "Call Athearn". And after that, I had to pay the shipping to send to Athearn. That was the last Athearn product I've ever bought. They produced an inferior product and didn't even have the decency to send me my shipping cost. Was that because I didn't buy it direct from Athearn?
Virtually everyone makes you pay shipping to them and not just in the MR business, it seems to have become standard practice in the last decade. It has nothing to do with where you bought the item, it doesn't make any sense to boycot Athearn, unless you're also going to boycot Walthers, Atlas, Kato, Bowser, Digitrax, BLI, NCE, etc, etc, etc.
Jay
C-415 Build: https://imageshack.com/a/tShC/1
Other builds: https://imageshack.com/my/albums
This a very old discussion. I have heard about this Walther's issue before the 'Net ever came to be but it does provide an outlet for Ranters.
They survive on Volume. End of story. Lets get back to working on our model railroads.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
No matter what you buy, you expect it to be good. When it isn't, the Mfr should stand by their product. They should not expect you to pay for shipping. Where did you get the idea that "everyone must pay shipping"? Is there anyone else on this thread that believes that? If I was sending the loco back because "I broke something", I would not only pay shipping, I would pay the cost to repair. Buy when the product is defective, and it's their fault, they should be happy to refund my shipping costs. That would be good business practice. Again, IMHO.
selector I wouldn't look for any national conventions to attend ifyaknowhaddamean? Seriously, they are unnecessary these days, and just another leach/mouth-to-feed in the network that hobby businesses can do without.
I don't believe that I was trying to justify middlemen. It just seems to me that some of them are a necessity. Everyone here seems to be concentrating on what I would call big ticket items, locomotives for example, or commodity items, say flextrack for example, that you can always find a better price for if you look around.
But I think most of you have looked in the Walthers catalog at least once or twice in your lifetimes. There are hundreds (probably thousands) of trinkets, do-dads, and other esoteric items in there, all of which have value to someone. And between their catalog and their website, where they actually list what might be available and even generally show a picture, I at least have a chance of seeing what might or might not be available. Does Klein do this? No. Does Trainworld do this? No. Does anyone else do this? Maybe, but I don't think so. I don't think that very many of the hobby shops have catalogs from all the different vendors, and I'm pretty sure that some vendors don't even have comprehensive catalogs available to the general public. And I think I'd be pretty safe in saying that most of us model railroaders don't have an extensive catalog library.
You all talk about how you get all the great service from this or that internet vendor or local hobby shop. But call one of those places up and ask if they happen to carry a lift ring for a GE diesel long hood. Do you actually think they are going to spend any time with that request? On the other hand, if I walk into that shop and ask if they can get me a Utah Pacific lift ring with Walthers part number such and so, I think I can get much better results. And I really don't believe that the hobby shop owner is going to order that part from Utah Pacific, even if they could. They'll add it onto their next order from whomever their distributor is. And if that distributor doesn't happen to be Walthers, I would still bet that the Walthers catalog number would be used as a reference.
Now, I agree that many things can be bought online, in many cases direct from the manufacturer. But if I need one item from Utah Pacific, two items from Cannon and Company, some windows from Tichy, and some 0-72 screws from Ye Olde Nut and Bolt, do you really think it is reasonable for me to place those orders individually and pay $8.75 shipping for each order? Or does it make more sense for me to order these things from the hobby shop, pay MSRP +/- plus tax and avoid shipping and have the shop get the stuff from Walthers? Or alternately order direct from Walthers, pay the shipping, avoid the tax, and have the items delivered to my door?
The fact is, gentlepeople, that a company like Walthers does the hobby a service by being willing to use their money to stockpile a bunch of stuff in hopes that complainers like us will eventually make a purchase. And maybe we should stop a moment and think where we will get what we need when the, what did you call them, oh yeah, "unnecessary leaches" go away.
Regards!
maxman...And maybe we should stop a moment and think where we will get what we need when the, what did you call them, oh yeah, "unnecessary leaches" go away.
We'll hope to get a reduction on the cost that they would need to add for their cut. And we'd get them from the same entity that needs them to sell in the first place...that needs a buyer.
If Walthers will sell you the single tiny lift ring for $2 plus $6 shipping, can you hope to get the same item delivered when it must be shipped to a distributor first, and then redirected to the LHS, or maybe to you? Not for the initial $2, unless the distributor is working for good will alone.
maxman But I think most of you have looked in the Walthers catalog at least once or twice in your lifetimes. There are hundreds (probably thousands) of trinkets, do-dads, and other esoteric items in there, all of which have value to someone. And between their catalog and their website, where they actually list what might be available and even generally show a picture, I at least have a chance of seeing what might or might not be available. Does Klein do this? No. Does Trainworld do this? No. Does anyone else do this? Maybe, but I don't think so. I don't think that very many of the hobby shops have catalogs from all the different vendors, and I'm pretty sure that some vendors don't even have comprehensive catalogs available to the general public. And I think I'd be pretty safe in saying that most of us model railroaders don't have an extensive catalog library. You all talk about how you get all the great service from this or that internet vendor or local hobby shop. But call one of those places up and ask if they happen to carry a lift ring for a GE diesel long hood. Do you actually think they are going to spend any time with that request? On the other hand, if I walk into that shop and ask if they can get me a Utah Pacific lift ring with Walthers part number such and so, I think I can get much better results. And I really don't believe that the hobby shop owner is going to order that part from Utah Pacific, even if they could. They'll add it onto their next order from whomever their distributor is. And if that distributor doesn't happen to be Walthers, I would still bet that the Walthers catalog number would be used as a reference. Now, I agree that many things can be bought online, in many cases direct from the manufacturer. But if I need one item from Utah Pacific, two items from Cannon and Company, some windows from Tichy, and some 0-72 screws from Ye Olde Nut and Bolt, do you really think it is reasonable for me to place those orders individually and pay $8.75 shipping for each order? Or does it make more sense for me to order these things from the hobby shop, pay MSRP +/- plus tax and avoid shipping and have the shop get the stuff from Walthers? Or alternately order direct from Walthers, pay the shipping, avoid the tax, and have the items delivered to my door? The fact is, gentlepeople, that a company like Walthers does the hobby a service by being willing to use their money to stockpile a bunch of stuff in hopes that complainers like us will eventually make a purchase. And maybe we should stop a moment and think where we will get what we need when the, what did you call them, oh yeah, "unnecessary leaches" go away.
Maxman, all good and valid points, and true many small shops would fill your request for those items through Walthers.
But keep in mind the following:
While the Walthers Catalog is a wealth of those "do dads and gizzmos" of our hobby, they actually have less of that sort of thing then they did years ago. I understand and agree with your "convience of ordering" idea, but the fact is even those products are slowly going to direct distribution.
Walthers used to sell the whole "Kemtron" line, now part of Precision Scale Co. - their complete line of brass parts use to be in Walthers catalog, now only a few items are in there. The parts section in the Walthers catalog is only a fraction of what it was a few decades ago. If you want these items, you or your local shop buys them right from PSC, who, by the way, is very willing to sell to your local shop direct, or to you. And they have very detailed catalogs they will send you
Bowser, who owns Cal Scale also sells direct to dealers of any size, just like a "distributor", just like Athearn is "self distributed". In addition to locos and rollng stock, Bowser sells lots of those "bits and pieces" for our hobby, just take a look at their web site. And they too will sell direct to you. When I need Cal Scale (I use a lot of it), My LHS oders it directly form Bowser, not from Walthers.
I know several good hobby shops, who buy lots/most products direct, that have great stocks of "bits and pieces" for our hobby, and still have discount prices.
MB Klein was once a great hobby shop that had "everything", not so much now, but they still are a good source for lots of stuff. I don't know all the details of what's on their web site because I can just drive there and ask for what I want, but they still seem to have a fair selection of "bits and pieces".
Kadee hardly sells anything that costs more than $40, yet they sell direct to lots of dealers.
Some lines like Berkshire Junction are only sold direct, be it to dealers or direct to you, by mail or at train shows.
In my view, regardless of were they get it, the point of a GOOD hobby shop is to have the basics, even the basic "bits and pieces" in stock.
When I ran a train department in a hobby shop I did my best to keep EVERY piece of Cal Scale and a full selection of Kadee trucks and couplers in STOCK all the time, not have special order them, just to name a few items.
As for the pricing on the "do dads and bits and pieces", I just buy the stuff, at what price a shop or manufacturer charges me (up to and including retail).
But the fact remains, the "distribution" process in this hobby is changing, and it is headed toward more direct distribution to keep prices lower.
*****SORRY FOR THE REPOSTS, THE QUICK REPLY OPTION WAS MESSING UP NOW I CAN'T REMOVE THEM******
Hello All, The OP here:
I've learned some interesting things from your responses. Like I mentioned before, I see they survive on volume. As for LHS survivability, my LHS see's me in there on two occasions: 1. When I can't find an item on the internet. 2. When I want to chat and maybe suck it up and purchase one piece of rolling stock for MSRP. Why you ask? Because they charge full MSRP all the time. Now I think that saving money actually stimulates the economy. For example, since I had $400 left over I spent that money on some passenger cars that I normally wouldn't have purchased. The problem with my LHS is the guy runs the shop as a hobby. All of his money is made off of real estate, he doesn't care if you dont purcahse anything. The place is good for quality conversation though!
Hello. If you have not replied to 'yourself', and no one has replied to your post, you can delete them yourself. If is only in the case where someone has clicked on 'reply' just below your post, or quoted, that the first post cannot be deleted.
Anyway, I deleted them for you.
ok, thanks for your help "selector". I did find a useful job for walthers....There is this broadway limited california zephyr dome observation car that is out of stock everywhere called silver solarium. I found a goon on ebay trying to rip people off and charge over double the MSRP for the car(and of course some genious has now bid on it). Well, I used walthers search tool and found a hobby shop that still had one in stock and I bought it for the sale price of $10 below MSRP saving myself another 80 bucks on one car versus if I had got the one on ebay. So Walthers is now off my bad boy list :) That search tool is a wallet saver. If it says an item is not in stock, click the link that says find it...It's worth the clicking of your mouse!
I shop Walthers a lot because of their inventory and customer service. I usually only buy things on sale from their monthly flyers. Never had a bad experience dealing with them.