Volume.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
Since I have no local hobby shop, I buy everything online. Not wanting to pay a ton for shipping charges, I usually try to buy a few things online at a time. My first stop is usually MB Klein's website. Sometimes though, they don't have everything on my wish list. Then I buy from Walthers directly. They have a lot of the random things I need all under one roof. Couple that with a flat $8.95 in shipping and you have got yourself a sale.
There are 2 issues raised here.
One is why Walthers won't sell for less than MSRP. That has been answered by other posters explaining that Walthers is primarily a distributor and manufacturer. As such, they work to keep their primary customers - the hobby shops - happy by providing prompt service and not under-cutting the LHS prices. Like most manufacturers, Walthers will sell direct, but usually only at full retail to protect the relationships with their dealers.
The second is why I pay full MSRP. Another poster implied I was a buffoon for doing so. Ultimately, the difference is not what price you pay and what price I pay, but that what you buy and what I buy are worlds apart. You assume that I buy and collect large numbers of RTR plastic or die cast engines made in China. That's a common mistaken assumption that everybody else in the hobby shares your passions and prejudices.
With a modest hobby budget (currently $40/month), collecting RTR locomotives runs me out of money before I run out of month. If I spend 20 hours per month model railroading - pretty typical for me with family still at home - I need to keep my costs at less than $2/hr. My layout is small in keeping with my space, time, and money limitations so more than 7 locomotives means the extras have to go on display shelves or (worse!) in boxes. I personally see display or storage as a waste of money that could otherwise go to getting/bashing/making that great engine or structure that really fits my layout.
The discounters generally only stock and/or discount popular or high dollar items. I don't see many all-the-time discounts on Floquil or Scalecoat paints or Micro-Engineering products. And clicking on-line inventories at discounters doesn't locate NWSL parts and pieces and remotoring/regearing kits. Even if they do stock these items at a discount, shipping and handling charges more than eat up the difference between ordering at MSRP at my LHS and paying the sales tax.
Many of our small manufacturers of very fine products - the products that suit my layout - cannot afford to even have Walthers distribute their lines. Their production quantities are too small to meet Walthers stocking and speed of delivery requirements. So they have to sell direct to LHS or customers, and forego listing in the Walthers catalog.
Finally, as was pointed out, most of us try to negotiate the highest price possible for our products - our labor, skills, and knowledge. We only discount the price when forced to by the competition. So why do we begrudge others trying to maximize the price for their products?
my thoughts, your choices
Fred W
....modeling foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
I am someone who always will look for the best service which includes price. At times Walthers is my choice, other times it might by MB Klein, EBay, or direct from the manufacturer. Sad to say I rarely will buy anything major from my LHS because they are always - and I do mean always - the high price store. They do not honor any of Walthers' sale prices and even those few things that are marked down can be found other places at a deeper discount. Frankly, I don't know how they manage to stay in business in this area with our economic conditions.
Being a warehouse distributor, Walthers does provide a valuable service to retailers and as someone already pointed out, their $8.95 shipping charge is a steal. During my career I dealt with many WD's and almost all of them handled their business precisely the way Walthers does. The exception is that Walthers has a retail side and that is a good thing - and I am sure it is part of their overall business plan.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
1. There's "we" and there's "they".
2. We are enligthtened, civilized and highly spirtitual people who are ENTITLED to buy things at rock bottom prices and sell things for all the traffic will bear even at the expense of their ability to make a living
3. They are money grubbing materialist barbarians who are out to destroy civilization as we know it and they should be grateful that we allow them to continue their miserable existences.
It's not a hard concept to understatnd.
Andre
Driline ATLANTIC CENTRALAny LHS buying from Walthers at 40% off and reselling at 20% off will not last any longer than someone trying to sell anf MSRP. You cannot run a retail business on 20% unless you are a part time basement/train show dealer. ??? ATLANTIC CENTRALAthearn, while wholesaled lower than the old 40% is not as heavily discounted to dealers as Bachmann, so it might only be 20% off in that same shop. Tsk tsk tsk.....Sheldon. Arn't you contradicting yourself here? My LHS buys most of their stuff from Walthers at a 40% discount, and some items a bit more. They've offered 20% discount for over 20 years now and are in a NEW building and going strong.
ATLANTIC CENTRALAny LHS buying from Walthers at 40% off and reselling at 20% off will not last any longer than someone trying to sell anf MSRP. You cannot run a retail business on 20% unless you are a part time basement/train show dealer.
???
ATLANTIC CENTRALAthearn, while wholesaled lower than the old 40% is not as heavily discounted to dealers as Bachmann, so it might only be 20% off in that same shop.
Tsk tsk tsk.....Sheldon. Arn't you contradicting yourself here? My LHS buys most of their stuff from Walthers at a 40% discount, and some items a bit more. They've offered 20% discount for over 20 years now and are in a NEW building and going strong.
Well it could be that in Iowa rents are so low compared to the rest of the country that one can run a retail business on 20% or 25%. That won't work here, or in most major metro areas of this country, which is were the customers are.
How much help does he have? What kind of money does he pay them? What are retail wages like in Iowa? I don't know, but round here you don't get anyone responsable to work for much less than $15-$20/hr. Also a regional issue that might effect his ability to do well at a lower markup. But again, I am speaking about the whole country in general.
Does your local hobby shop sell Athearn? Walthers does not sell Athearn. He gets a better than 40% discount on that direct from Athearn/Horizon. Does he discount it more than 20%? He is making up some of the those other low prices with more profit on things like Athearn that have a bigger discount.
Does he sell Bachmann? How much? Maybe he buys that direct too. How are his Bachmann prices? Only 20% of MSRP? If he is buying Bachmann direct and is getting people to buy it at only 20% of MSRP, than he is making a killing on each piece of that he sells. But even Walthers sells Bachmann at 45% off to dealers.
If rent/overhead is low enough and volume high enough retail businesses can make it on 20-25%, BUT in general, most businesses like hobbies need about 30% gross margin to be successful in most retail markets in this counrty. Do you know anyone with an MBA, if you don't believe me ask them.
How do I know, well I ran a train department in a hobby shop, I still know a number of shop owners very well, I have been self employed most of my life, running various kinds of businesses, one of which was a retail business. What do you do for a living? Have you ever run a retail business? Or any knid of business?
What is his personal situation? He may have other "wealth" and while I'm not suggesting he is loosing money, he may be in a comfortable position that allows him to run his store without ever borrowing money like many businesses do. This too would give him a strong edge.
But these are all exceptions rather than the norm. Again, what is YOUR business experiance? Or do you just collect a pay check from someone?
Sheldon
The easy answer? They're the place of almost one-stop shopping. If you can get it all at one place, it would probably be about the same as ordering and shipping at different places.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Driline Beach BillI've been in this hobby 50 years now and broad-brushing Walther's customers as "baffoon" or "with more money than common sense" is ill-informed at best. You could have saved yourself some dough and purchased it through M.B.Klein or any other reputable online dealer. Way to not support our dealers and LHS (most of the onliners have a brick and mortar store) out there....
Beach BillI've been in this hobby 50 years now and broad-brushing Walther's customers as "baffoon" or "with more money than common sense" is ill-informed at best.
You could have saved yourself some dough and purchased it through M.B.Klein or any other reputable online dealer. Way to not support our dealers and LHS (most of the onliners have a brick and mortar store) out there....
Driline, you do business with MB Klein? I know the owner and his long time staffers. I was buying trains there 40 years ago and still do from time to time. I live about 40 minutes from their store. He buys virtually EVERYTHING direct from the manufacturers.
He got his start 50 years ago using a little space in his fathers hardware store to sell trains. There was a wholesale house right around the corner where he could fill customers orders the next day without investing in inventory or paying shipping. So it was easy for him to discount. As he grew, he started buying products like Athearn direct, and even sold Athearn wholesale to other shops.
Eventually the hardware store became a model train store. With a paid for building and a reputation for always having everything and having it at 20% off they did very well for decades. They expanded into mailorder and then onto the internet as the market changed. Still a great store, but not as complete an inventory as years ago.
I assure you there is no Bachmann locos at MB Klein that came through Walthers, they all got there direct from Phily. And all the Atlas comes direct from New Jersey, and so on.......
In fact I would bet that most everything Klein's gets from Walthers, says Walthers on the package.
ATLANTIC CENTRALOne more simple point to all, if you are in business selling hobbies, and you are not making 30% or more, you will not be around long. Regardless of MSRP you pay $70 for it, you need to sell it for $100. It's that simple. So, do the math. MSRP = $100 Walther price to local hbby shop = $60 lowest price you should sell it for = $85 or 15% off Same item bought direct from manufacturer (price Walthers paid) = $40 now as a dealer, only paying $40, you can sell it for $57 and make the same percentage as you did sellng it for $85 - sell the same dollar volume and you have made the same profit. Extra discounts for volume and quick pay are small, less than 10% for sure. So that does not explain heavy discounting, only direct purchasing and new lower discount structures direct from manufactuers explain the low prices we see compaired to MSRP. Athearn is about 50% off to dealers, Bachmann about 70% to dealers, both sold direct, Athearn ONLY sold direct. Walthers has increased its "standard" discount on lines like Bachmann because of this. And, has similar policies with their own "branded" products. Sheldon
One more simple point to all, if you are in business selling hobbies, and you are not making 30% or more, you will not be around long.
Regardless of MSRP you pay $70 for it, you need to sell it for $100. It's that simple.
So, do the math.
MSRP = $100
Walther price to local hbby shop = $60
lowest price you should sell it for = $85 or 15% off
Same item bought direct from manufacturer (price Walthers paid) = $40
now as a dealer, only paying $40, you can sell it for $57 and make the same percentage as you did sellng it for $85 - sell the same dollar volume and you have made the same profit.
Extra discounts for volume and quick pay are small, less than 10% for sure. So that does not explain heavy discounting, only direct purchasing and new lower discount structures direct from manufactuers explain the low prices we see compaired to MSRP.
Athearn is about 50% off to dealers, Bachmann about 70% to dealers, both sold direct, Athearn ONLY sold direct.
Walthers has increased its "standard" discount on lines like Bachmann because of this. And, has similar policies with their own "branded" products.
If you buy a product for 70 bucks and make 30 percent, the price would be 91 dollars, not 100. 70 *.3 is 21 dollar mark-up.
Springfield PA
HamltnblueIf you buy a product for 70 bucks and make 30 percent, the price would be 91 dollars, not 100. 70 *.3 is 21 dollar mark-up.
In retail it is more common to refer to gross margin of selling price than to refer to "mark up"
ALL my comments are based on this industry standard method - not on markup, but on gross margin.
I never used the term "mark up", and in fact explained the "discount off MSRP" and used the term gross profit or gross margin.
Wholesale discounts are figured backward from MSRP, traditionally 40% in the hobby industry.
So a product with a $100 MSRP would typically cost the store $60 from a distributor and likely cost the distributor about $40.
Extra discounts for quick pay or volume are typically less tha 5% of those numbers.
Using the "mark up" method, you had better be at or above 45% to make any money in retail.
$70 x 1.45 = $101.50 OR $100.00 less 30% (100 x .7) = $70.00
fwrightThe second is why I pay full MSRP. Another poster implied I was a buffoon for doing so. Ultimately, the difference is not what price you pay and what price I pay, but that what you buy and what I buy are worlds apart. You assume that I buy and collect large numbers of RTR plastic or die cast engines made in China. That's a common mistaken assumption that everybody else in the hobby shares your passions and prejudices.
I assumed nothing. And with a hobby budget of only $40 a month, you certainly aren't helping put food on the table at your LHS charging full MSRP.
You should be thanking US. Those who gladly accept discounts and are willing to put our money where our mouth is. My LHS is thriving and with 20% discount everyday I intend to keep it that way.
ATLANTIC CENTRALBut these are all exceptions rather than the norm. Again, what is YOUR business experiance? Or do you just collect a pay check from someone? Sheldon
I"m an overpaid underworked Government employee sucking off the teat of the American taxpayers.
And I thank you :)
Driline ATLANTIC CENTRAL But these are all exceptions rather than the norm. Again, what is YOUR business experiance? Or do you just collect a pay check from someone? Sheldon I"m an overpaid underworked Government employee sucking off the teat of the American taxpayers. And I thank you :)
ATLANTIC CENTRAL But these are all exceptions rather than the norm. Again, what is YOUR business experiance? Or do you just collect a pay check from someone? Sheldon
mmmm---dang. This is a funny way to have a discussion but since we are in this I'll suggest that some LHSes up here do seem to survive even though they do charge MSRP---maybe they do because they offer more than just the goods--I don't know. But there we be---
I'm thinking that the stuff Walthers have been doing, in that they serve both roles of Distributor/retail outlet, seems to have been going rather well for them. I get my $100/mth budget rather well spent--be it MSRP--or good deal---so as for the LHS's that survive inspite of the MSRP thing-----all I can say was said in the words of a certain situationist writer---
And yet, they LIVE....
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Barry,
A few thoughts more from someone who ran a train department in a hobby shop that largely charged MSRP.
I understand and agree with the "customer service" idea, that's what I did.
I still pay whatever fair price someone asks for a product if I see it as a good value, MSRP or otherwise.
Sure, in many ways the hobby might be better if the discounting thing had never started or never got to the point it is at - but - see my story about Klein's - it started a LONG time ago, that was in the 50's.
In my view, smart shop owners buy each product at as low a price as they can, put a fair price on it based on their cost, and try to provide good service. The rest should take car of its self. But trying to sell Bachmann at MSRP or even near it is just foolishness.
I am a bargin hunter, BUT, I don't haggle or expect anyone to sell something at a price lower than they have marked on it.
Knowing what I know about the cost and distribution structure in the business, I spend my money with different outlets based on their ability to sell specific products at reasonable prices. My closest LHS is only about 10 houses down the street in our little village. I buy lots from him, including most all the Athearn I buy. He discounts enough to be fair, not the cheapest, not the most expensive.
BUT, when I want a Bachmann loco, he is not the source. He does not buy Bachmann direct, we have three shops within about 40 minutes of here who all buy it direct and have great prices, and have lots of it in stock all the time - at about 40% off retail!
Service is important, and not to be to arrogant here, but after 40 years in this hobby and having worked in the business as well, the only service I need is a good inventory, a fair return policy (I virtually never return anything anyway), and an effective special order department.
I don't need help with my models or repairs or "advice", in fact I give a lot of HO advice at my LHS since the owner is a more of a highrail and 2 rail 1/4" scale guy.
I simply need the products I need, when I need/want them and at a "fair" price, MSRP or otherwise, depending on the type of item.
I don't even pay attention to the price of things like Kadee trucks and couplers, scratch building supplies, or any of the general "do dads" of our hobby, I just buy them.
But I did not equip the ATLANTIC CENTRAL with 120 locos, even Bachmann Spectrum locos, at list price.
But what do I know...............
DrilineI assumed nothing. And with a hobby budget of only $40 a month, you certainly aren't helping put food on the table at your LHS charging full MSRP.You should be thanking US. Those who gladly accept discounts and are willing to put our money where our mouth is. My LHS is thriving and with 20% discount everyday I intend to keep it that way.
I do thank you, and all the "conventional" model railroaders and collectors. Your $$ have made the wide variety we all enjoy today possible - whether at MSRP or at a discount. Your purchases, and the products made to meet that demand, have put a ceiling on the appreciation of both used brass locomotives and the OOP kits that I prefer as my base for my locomotives. And the availability of truly RTR plastic locomotives has reduced the demand for the models I want. Just because I do things differently doesn't mean I don't appreciate what other peoples' money has done for the hobby. I do lament the passing of the kit era, but there's enough unbuilt kits out there to take care of me and the few others that share my hobby interests for a while to come.
Bottom line: for the models I prefer, there isn't the demand to support the high volume transactions at discounted prices. You reap the advantages of desiring popular models, which are made in large runs. I reap the higher prices of models where supply and demand are tilted more towards the seller.
....HO and HOn3 modeling of foggy coastal Oregon, where it's always 1900....
ATLANTIC CENTRALHamltnblueIf you buy a product for 70 bucks and make 30 percent, the price would be 91 dollars, not 100. 70 *.3 is 21 dollar mark-up. In retail it is more common to refer to gross margin of selling price than to refer to "mark up" ALL my comments are based on this industry standard method - not on markup, but on gross margin. I never used the term "mark up", and in fact explained the "discount off MSRP" and used the term gross profit or gross margin. Wholesale discounts are figured backward from MSRP, traditionally 40% in the hobby industry. So a product with a $100 MSRP would typically cost the store $60 from a distributor and likely cost the distributor about $40. Extra discounts for quick pay or volume are typically less tha 5% of those numbers. Using the "mark up" method, you had better be at or above 45% to make any money in retail. $70 x 1.45 = $101.50 OR $100.00 less 30% (100 x .7) = $70.00 Sheldon
If your comments are based on something, note it. Because making 30% can mean 2 different things.
Your math is correct but it's not what any business should be using.
Since different manufacturers provide different discounts from MSRP a company should use the basic margin formula. Margin = 1- (cost/Sell price)
Using that formula takes MSRP totally out of the picture and is much faster. It is "bottom line" and is what large and publicly traded companies use to figure the bottom line. It is also not profit, but a number used along with many others.
I guess I'm also not helping the economy by my purchases. The OP mentioned saving $400 in his single purchse. I on the other hand don't spend $400 per year. So why would I spend MSRP at Walters? Well they usually have what I need when I need it. There is no LHS near where I live anymore. But recently I had some business travel so I was able to visit hobby shops in a couple of cities. I've been needing some paint so I took this chance to support an LHS. Guess what, in the end after visiting several LHS's, I only spent $15 and didn't get what I wanted anyway. Could have saved myself the trouble, ordered it all from one place, with one shipping charge, and had what I needed for the lowest life cycle cost.
One thing I've learned over the years -- saving money costs in the long run.
Hamltnblue If your comments are based on something, note it. Because making 30% can mean 2 different things. Your math is correct but it's not what any business should be using. Since different manufacturers provide different discounts from MSRP a company should use the basic margin formula. Margin = 1- (cost/Sell price) Using that formula takes MSRP totally out of the picture and is much faster. It is "bottom line" and is what large and publicly traded companies use to figure the bottom line. It is also not profit, but a number used along with many others.
First, I did note it by using the term dealer "discount" from MSRP, and never using the term "markup".
You can say what you like about what companies should do, or about what larger industries do, fact is wholesale/manufacturer prices in the hobby business have been based on MSRP less (fill in the percentage, typically 40) for 70 years or more. I don't see it changing any time soon.
Why is your fomula faster? It is the same. 1 - $60 (wholesale price) / $100 (MSRP) = 40%, I said this type of business needs to make 30% - just like your fomuula.
1 - $60 (wholesale price) / $90 (sale price - 10% off MSRP) = 30%
1 - $40 (direct from mfr price) / $60 (sale price - 40% off MSRP) = 33.3%
Dealer discounts in the hobby business are typically standard per brand/product line and until the last 10-15 years almost all were 40%. Then fast pay or volume incentives were deducted from the net due, typically no more than 10%, usually 5%.
Now IIRC, Athearn is 50%, Bachmann is about 70% direct from them, and 45% from most wholesalers.
Many other lines remain at 40% through distributors and are about 60% if you can buy enough to buy direct.
Sorry you don't like how they do it, but that is how they do it.
Well, for all our figuring of who will and who will not and if or why, one thing is sure. There are businesses, both brick and mortar and online that are doing very well charging various discounts, MSRP and above MSRP. What a business chooses to charge is exactly what he hopes his customer base can tollerate. If he is in New York, his customers with a higher salary and a higher cost of living are used to paying more for a product and don't bat an eye at MSRP. If he is in Central Illinois MSRP, quite frankly, cannot be found except for Hobby Lobby and we know about that. So my opinion is why would I pay MSRP when I cam drive 20 minutes for 20% off. Yes there is gas but usually I'm there in town anyway. IF I buy something from the internet, it must be something I cannot get from one of two Hobby shops and that is tough, or a substantial savings including shipping which on purchases the way I purchase MRR stuff, would have to equate gas for at least a 65 mile round trip specifically for MRR purchase. I'd rather pay the same or less, including tax, to my local hobby shops.
Now, I know everybody has their own situations regarding availability of a LHS, and my situation is not a blanket situation, but my point is apparently many shops do well charging higher rates than others, and the area they are in allows for the margins they choose. 20% goes alot farther in Springfield, IL than is does in Chicago. They need more profit to keep the doors open and the employees paid. And don't forget the owner. No one, and I mean no one, starts a business and is satisfied with breaking even. They have to eat too.
All this talk means nothing. I've seen things go on E-bay for way more than I can buy it new. Some say that's the idiot bidding, but I say, ask him what he says is a good price for a particular loco. He may say $225 is cheapest around and a good price. I look at him and say there are several in my LHS for $185.Same with anything, where you live dictates what you pay. I wonder why anyone would pay MSRP for the stuff when the internet can set it on their door much cheaper. They still do it. It's their choice and if that's what their pocketbook can support then well I guess the hobby shop maybe can stay open another day.
If they're happy, I'm happy and that's the best we can hope for. Just my
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
TMarshIf they're happy, I'm happy and that's the best we can hope for. Just my
Oh, you're just way too happy. Maybe Sheldon and I like to be angry and depressed. Have you thought about our wants/needs
When I was in business and even in school, the method was-
Profit and loss, based on the cost.
Flip
Driline TMarshIf they're happy, I'm happy and that's the best we can hope for. Just my Oh, you're just way too happy. Maybe Sheldon and I like to be angry and depressed. Have you thought about our wants/needs
Forgive me I forgot. You do have that right. Please feel free to be unhappy. If it makes you happy to be unhappy then I'm happy that your unhappiness makes you hap..... oh this could go on for hours.
(By the way, I still think you're happy.)
Wow, 4 pages of replies when the answer should be pretty simple. They stay in business because they stay profitable. Guess it works for them. While Walthers prices are generally high, they sometimes have sales on Walthers rolling stock and buildings that are very competitive if not the best I could find. Plus they usually have complete stock of items in a passenger car series such as UP Cities, whereas other shops might only carry a portion of cars in stock.
fec153When I was in business and even in school, the method was- Profit and loss, based on the cost. Flip
Exactly. It's actually a good exercise and also good that people in the business explain how they charge.
A successful business usually tracks actual cost and uses that to calculate margin. Seems in the hobby business they do the same but find themselves always calculating down from MSRP and back up from there.
My past background is in product management and setting both the net and list pricing (MSRP). Current is project management where we track net pricing (cost). The MSRP/List price is basically set so that the end user feels better when they receive a discount. Apparently the Hobby industry and other retail use the number to figure their net since it looks like the Manufacturers don't post that number to their distribution.
I find it interesting and although some get defensive, I still find it educational. I now know the numbers that my LHS is using when I see them verbalize the 10% discount.
trainsBuddyWhile Walthers prices are generally high, they sometimes have sales on Walthers rolling stock and buildings that are very competitive if not the best I could find.
I think the big question that was NEVER asked and should have been....is......::drum roll::
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WALTHERS BUSINESS IS OVER THE COUNTER MSRP?
WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WALTHERS BUSINESS IS WHOLESALE TO THE DEALERS?
Ok, so that's two questions that should have been asked.
My guess is 2% for over the counter MSRP (to people who don't care what they pay)
And 98% for wholesale to the dealers.....(for the rest of us enjoying our 20 to 30% discount)
So.........What do they care.....hmmmmm? I wouldn't care either
HamltnblueApparently the Hobby industry and other retail use the number to figure their net since it looks like the Manufacturers don't post that number to their distribution.
Exactly! Athearn or Walthers or Bachmann do not print/publish a dealer net price list. Neither do the remaining traditional distributors that are not also manufacturers like Walthers or Athearn. They simply tell the dealer this line is 40% off, that one is 45% off, and this months special is an extra 5% off the net if spend 10K and pay net 30 days.
You never see a printed "cost" price until you get the invoice!
In another life years ago, I sold Matco Automotive Tools, that business was the same way. The company printed a retail price list, which had letter codes that indicated the "dealer discount" for that item, ranging from 25% to 55% off MSRP.
Driline trainsBuddyWhile Walthers prices are generally high, they sometimes have sales on Walthers rolling stock and buildings that are very competitive if not the best I could find. I think the big question that was NEVER asked and should have been....is......::drum roll:: WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WALTHERS BUSINESS IS OVER THE COUNTER MSRP? WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WALTHERS BUSINESS IS WHOLESALE TO THE DEALERS? Ok, so that's two questions that should have been asked. My guess is 2% for over the counter MSRP (to people who don't care what they pay) And 98% for wholesale to the dealers.....(for the rest of us enjoying our 20 to 30% discount) So.........What do they care.....hmmmmm? I wouldn't care either
Driline, you are likely right on about Walthers sales - AND, of that 98% that is wholesale, 80% or more of that is likely Walthers branded products.
Because, big shops like Kleins and Train World are buying those other lines direct, they have no reason to buy them from Walthers. So the only thing those kinds of outlets are buying from Walthers is the Walthers exclusive products.
In the hayday of distributors, Walthers was a big one, but with Athearn and so many other big players self distributed or sold direct to big dealers, that is long gone.
I would be willing to bet that Train World sells more Bachmann than Walthers.
Old way of mgmt---How do I cut cost?
New way of mgmt---how to maintain and build pricing power----
They layoff a lot of people , raise prices, and do not all ways have in stock what they advertise.
Dennis Blank Jr.
CEO,COO,CFO,CMO,Bossman,Slavedriver,Engineer,Trackforeman,Grunt. Birdsboro & Reading Railroad
Sean
HO Scale CSX Modeler