Before my trainroom was a trainroom the 24 x 15 space was a very comfortable family room with a grand piano a few guitars on stands along with other instruments. The other end had a beautiful sitting area with the usual big screen TV Blah, Blah, Blah. I agree it was the most beautiful room in the house.
An acquaintance of ours comes over who is a real estate agent. She saw the room before it was improved and made into a train room about three years ago. Back then she said that this room should be in a magazine, it's perfect. Blah, Blah, Blah.
She walks into it now and just about passes out. Here I am thinking she must really be impressed with the layout so far . Yeah right. She comes out of the room screaming " HOW COULD YOU EVER LET HIM DO THAT TO THAT BEAUTIFUL ROOM"! She carries on her rant by saying that if we ever wanted to list the house to sell it, the train would all have to come out. It was all I could do to contain myself. I reminded her who's house it actually was, and then went on to say that if she couldn't sell it with the train setup she wouldn't be the listing agent. She was most indignant and wisely shut up before things got worse.
Now we are not planning a move at this time, but it got me thinking. I don't think I would ever take the layout down to sell the house. If buyers can't see past it, oh well.
That hag will never get the job of selling my house for me, that's for darn sure.
So I ask you, did you or would you take your layout down to sell your house? I may be talked into including it in the sale of the house, but I don't think I would take it down. What if it didn't sell. Your left with a boring old family room once again.
Thanks for listening.....
Brent
"All of the world's problems are the result of the difference between how we think and how the world works."
I suspect that for the vast majority of the house buying public a room filled with benchwork would not be seen as an attractive addition to the home. Many would see it as a major hassle to remove and dispose of.
A former collegue of mine in Michigan negotiated down the price of a home he was buying because of a basement filling model railroad. He did not want it, and got the owner to lower the price if he agreed to accept it left in place and dispose of it after the sale.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
simon1966I suspect that for the vast majority of the house buying public a room filled with benchwork would not be seen as an attractive addition to the home. Many would see it as a major hassle to remove and dispose of. A former collegue of mine in Michigan negotiated down the price of a home he was buying because of a basement filling model railroad. He did not want it, and got the owner to lower the price if he agreed to accept it left in place and dispose of it after the sale.
I agree, but mine is freestanding and though not portable is movable. Once removed the room is clean and empty. I will be taking it with me if at all possible if I ever move.
I used to work with a guy who said, "The Customer isn't always right. But, the Customer is always the Customer."
My train room is also the family room. It's a nice, large, comfortable space, but not the showpiece of the house. (If it had been the showpiece of the house, it still would be, and I wouldn't have a trainroom.)
As insensitive as this agent was, my guess is she was right. Most house buyers are sold very early on. One developer I know puts a lot of effort into making a perfect front porch for just that reason. If you make a good enough first impression, then the other things get overlooked. Now, remembering that most Americans are not model railroaders, a layout is not a plus. In fact, it's probably a minus, like a gym setup in the living room or a large, walk-in bedroom closet stuffed with power tools.
Would I take down my layout just to sell the house? Well, considering that if I were selling the house, I'd have to take it down anyway, yes. But think of it this way: Would you take down your layout for ten thousand dollars? That might be the difference between the offer from the buyer who really wants that showpiece room, and the other buyer who just wants a place to live.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
We had already purchased our present house, and I had already removed the one module and the salvage (wreckage) of the rest of my modest around-the-spare-bedroom shelf layout, before our old house was listed. That's the only way I would have done it - moved the railroad-related chattels into the new layout space first.
I recall a discussion here on the Forum several years ago where someone was making a moderately huge layout part of the sale of a moderately huge (and hugely expensive) house. The concensus was that a serious model rail would rather design and build to his own dream than to someone else's. Non-model-railroader buyers might well be turned off by the layout, unable (like the person you cited) to see past what's there to visualize the possibilities.
My own inclination is the opposite. When I see a nice, large space in a home or commercial environment I mentally superimpose my master-plan schematic on it, seeing whether that particular serving of spaghetti would be a comfortable fit in that bowl. I don't doubt that other modelers do the same.
Back to the story. When our old house was listed, it was empty of all but minimum furniture (we were still living in it) and had been thoroughly cleaned and all deferred maintenance taken care of. It sold in five weeks for more than we expected to get for it, so we must have done something right.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - in a double garage)
I AM selling my house. My layout is intact and I'll be removing it soon (I have an offer). What my agent tells me is that buyers have to be reminded to look at the house instead of my cool stuff - My house is full of my hand-made furniture, my dollhouse, my layout, and my street-custom VW. As near as I can tell, the downside to having the layout there is that it's a distraction.
Phil, I'm not a rocket scientist; they are my students.
I can she her point, not many people out there would find a train layout as a selling point. People here at the site would, that is if they liked what you had done.
The train room is something like my in ground pool. Before I bought the house it was on the market for a year. The prices had been dropped several times in that year. My wife wanted a pool and I did not want a above ground one. We bought the house the same day we looked at it.
Being in sales, she should have know to kept her mouth shut.
Cuda Ken
I hate Rust
I can definitely see her point. Most real estate agent look at the rooms as empty and imagine how the living space is going to look in their minds.
Personally, if I saw a layout (even if I wasn't a MRR), I would think in my mind that that person has made good use of the space. For example, I work at a furniture store and I made a delivery one time to guy's house who wanted a love seat in his basement. Once we got it down the stairs I noticed that he had an N scale layout that filled up most of the basement. He deeply apologized if the love seat wouldn't fit, but we made it fit. We spent longer talking about his layout than what it actually took to get the love seat down there.
Will
BATMANSo I ask you, did you or would you take your layout down to sell your house? I may be talked into including it in the sale of the house, but I don't think I would take it down. What if it didn't sell. Your left with a boring old family room once again.
I don't know whether or not I would dismantle my layout. That would be a big decision, especially if, as you suggest, there is a realistic possibility that the house may not sell. In which case there would be no "extra $10,000" bucks, but rather a big hole where the layout was and nothing else to show for it. On the other hand, perhaps it would be a good time to hire someone to come in and recommend and/or implement some sort of "dress-up" strategy to fix up the room, the layout, the lighting, etc-- to make the room WITH the layout look the best it can.
While I know that most people don't get off on seeing a layout, I bet they wouldn't mind so much seeing a "museum piece"-- a model layout so well presented it seems like it ought to belong in a museum. But I'm thinking more than just sticking a skirt on the layout.
Ultimately I don't how much any of that would do to help sell the house, but it probably wouldn't hurt.
(Shrug)
Who knows !?!?
John
BATMANShe comes out of the room screaming " HOW COULD YOU EVER LET HIM DO THAT TO THAT BEAUTIFUL ROOM"! She carries on her rant by saying that if we ever wanted to list the house to sell it, the train would all have to come out. It was all I could do to contain myself. I reminded her who's house it actually was, and then went on to say that if she couldn't sell it with the train setup she wouldn't be the listing agent. She was most indignant and wisely shut up before things got worse.
While I agree with the other respondents who've said she's probably ultimately right-- I agree with you. Behavior like that would get you quickly ejected from my house, having nothing to do with the veracity of her statement, but rather its delivery. Personally I think you oughta publish her name and location so everybody else can avoid her. I seriously doubt that's her only trigger point and I know *I* wouldn't want to deal with her, and *would* appreciate a heads-up so I could *avoid* her.
Anyway, sorry for your troubles, and hope they all work out soon!
I am in the process of selling my house. One of the first things I did was to dismantle and salvage as much as possible from the layout - track, wood, etc.
We are doing what our agent recommends. One of the benefits of having an agent to sell your house is: she is an expert on selling a house and knows what needs to be done to sell it in your market.
Enjoy
Paul
BATMANBefore my trainroom was a trainroom the 24 x 15 space was a very comfortable family room with a grand piano a few guitars on stands along with other instruments. The other end had a beautiful sitting area with the usual big screen TV Blah, Blah, Blah. I agree it was the most beautiful room in the house.
I've never seen a "Canadian" house, so I'm not familiar with room placement. Where is this "Family Room" located? Do you have a basement?
I have both a recreation room, and a family room. (We also have a traditional living room as well). Our family room is located on the main floor between the garage and kitchen/foyer. It would make a Horrible location for a train room, and would also distract from the rest of the house. The recreation room however is located in the basement, and would make a wonderful area for a nice size model railroad. My railroad however is currently housed in a spare room in the basement, because we needed space for the kids to play in the rec room. If we ever sold our house, the layout would stay until sold, like my last house.
I have sold several homes over the years, and one of a real estate agent's favorite words is "clutter".
That includes too many little lamp tables, end tables, too many chairs, framed photos all over the walls, a basement or garage packed to the walls with stuff, etc. - - - and, oh yes, model railroad layouts.
Alton Junction
It would be a good idea to follow the "experts" advice. After all that's what we pay them for. And if I needed to sell my house in a hurry I would probably remove the layout to storage. But only if I needed to sell fast. In the past I've sold at my leisure for a good price. I am 53 retired and financially secure, I can't see the layout coming down to sell the house. Buyers will have to see past the trains.
I guess what got me so hot under the collar is that she came waltzing into my house for a quick chat with my wife that had to do with dogs, not real estate. The way she carried on the few times she has been here is like she has come to list our house every time, not for other reasons. The first time she visited about three or four years ago, she got quite perturbed that I had never heard of her before. It turns out she has big expensive ads in the real estate papers with her picture plastered all over them. I said to her that I don't look at real estate ads unless I'm looking to move and that has only happened twice in my adult life. I have better things to do. She looked at me like I was from mars.
If I ever need an agent he'd better be a train guy.
Driline, a Canadian House is round made out of compact snow with a tunnel portal as an entry way that you have to crawl into. Great in the winter but doesn't stay too well in the summer...
When we moved 3 years ago the train was on a 4X8 in the corner of the rec room in the basement. The boys still used it so we didn't remove it and we had no comments from our realtor or anyone viewing the house. Granted it wasn't filling a room but it was there and quite evident. We actually had some comments from people viewing the house that said their children wanted to keep it if they bought.
The layout is a little larger now and we have just started to work on it again in an up-stairs games room over the garage which also houses one TV, one stereo, a full size four seater couch, a couple of other chairs, a mini sink, bar area and full size second fridge. The new layout will be a folded dog bone, basically the 4X8 in two pieces (I built it as two 4X4 sections when I originally designed it) with a 2X4 section in the middle. Not sure what I will do when we are looking at selling but we are planning on staying for a long time.
I should also say that as it took my wife 6 months to find furniture for the new living room I was threatening to make it into THE TRAIN ROOM! It didn't speed her up any but it was good for a laugh.
Brent as I'm in Langley PM me with the name of the realtor so I know who not to use if and when we ever do plan on leaving the area. LOL....
If you cannot fix it with a hammer;
You have an electrical problem!
Well here's your typical canuck house. Note the Hockey net in front of the garage and all the puck marks on the doors.
We have a family room/kitchen combo.The family room part is 16 x 22. The trainroom is off of that and is 15 x 24. I can expand into another 15 x 35 next to that if I knock some walls out.
The living/dining is 15 x 35 and the wife gave me the choice of where to build the layout. We do not do formal entertaining just crowds in on Saturday night for Hockey Night In Canada and Rum and Cokes.
The grand piano and big screen TV got moved into the living room while the wife was away one weekend. When she came in the door she said I see you've made your decision on where the latest division of the CPR is going to be built. What a gal.
shayfan84325 What my agent tells me is that buyers have to be reminded to look at the house instead of my cool stuff - My house is full of my hand-made furniture, my dollhouse, my layout, and my street-custom VW. As near as I can tell, the downside to having the layout there is that it's a distraction.
What my agent tells me is that buyers have to be reminded to look at the house instead of my cool stuff - My house is full of my hand-made furniture, my dollhouse, my layout, and my street-custom VW. As near as I can tell, the downside to having the layout there is that it's a distraction.
I've heard that's pretty much a rule for selling your house. Clean up and put away the knicknacks. All your treasured stuff is in fact a distraction to the buyers, and cluttered rooms look smaller to the observer. A real negative first impression.
As for my personal situation, I am actually planning on putting my house on the market in a few years time. That is one of the considerations that led me to dismantle my permanent layout and replace it with a bank of built-in cabinets and shelving. My railroad currently consists of a series of modules that set on the top of the cabinets. The rest of the shelves I use for static display of my collection of trains. It's not the same as a layout, but it's something.
This one thing I will say about that realtor though: As you were not selling the property, and as she was not engaged by you in a professional capacity, she really had no business commenting on your use of your home. Quite rude really.
I have figured out what is wrong with my brain! On the left side nothing works right, and on the right side there is nothing left!
BATMANWell here's your typical canuck house. Note the Hockey net in front of the garage and all the puck marks on the doors. We have a family room/kitchen combo.The family room part is 16 x 22. The trainroom is off of that and is 15 x 24. I can expand into another 15 x 35 next to that if I knock some walls out. The living/dining is 15 x 35 and the wife gave me the choice of where to build the layout. We do not do formal entertaining just crowds in on Saturday night for Hockey Night In Canada and Rum and Cokes.The grand piano and big screen TV got moved into the living room while the wife was away one weekend. When she came in the door she said I see you've made your decision on where the latest division of the CPR is going to be built. What a gal. Brent
Nice..house! It's not an igloo like I thought it was going to be.
You can always tell her, "My home is my castle, and there will be no hassle in my castle." Sorry, I was watching Sanford and Son.
Thanks Drilline
No Igloos here. In fact I don't think it got below freezing this winter. Just a lot of rain. I think that's why we west coast modelers weather our rails much rustier than the rest of the continent.
When we listed our house a while back, one of the first things I offered to do was to remove the basement layout. It is substantial, although still small as layouts go. But, it fills one solid corner of the basement. His reply: no, not yet. If you get a serious nibble, make sure the prospective buyer understands that the layout will be removed and the walls repaired/repainted as obviously necessary.
Personally, I will salvage what I can, such as the turntable and roundhouse area since it works well, and I'll try to recover some/all of the Peco and W/S and handlaid turnouts, and of course the wood....but the rest is an opportunity to start fresh with some lessons learned.
-Crandell
selectorWhen we listed our house a while back, -Crandell
When we listed our house a while back, -Crandell
Sure Ya hear I'm comin to the island in August and can't get the house up for sale fast enough.
You have to remember another thing. Homes are sold to women. If they see guy stuff in a large area they want to move on. Obviously not all but a large majority of them. You'll notice the typical guy will check out the garage, basement, including plumbing etc. As long as that space is available they're usually all set. Their wife is what the Realtor aims at, leaving the house so that they can visualize their stuff in the space. The man cave doesn't fly.
Springfield PA
I see many agents say to this or that, sometimes they are correct but never do anything major, it is better to lower the price than that usually. Many people improve their house only because it will increase the value, it almost never increases the value as much as it cost you unless you do it yourself!
HamltnblueHomes are sold to women.
Not in my family!
(And I'm *still* hearing about it!)
I can tell you Right at this Moment as we are selling our home and Actually Had Our Real Estate Agent take the pictures today; We did 95% of the work ourselves and Staged our house from Grade A Furniture Borrowed as ours is Grade B Kid & Dog Friendly and I must say I'm even impressed. I can tell you just from our Purchase and the 10 Bids we got outbid on that Staged is easier to the eye and you see things a lot clearer even for what you may envision than if it was cluttered. (I'm exhausted from it though)
We have a double Garage with Half made into a Hobby/Train room all Insulated with Lights.....etc.....Our Real Estate Agent did let us or ME know that it would show better to UnClutter which I did dismantle all except a Shelf in the Garage but no where else to put everything; House/Kid stuff & Model Railroad is packed in Totes stacked along the Wall (This is Our Hobby Room Garage though and hope people can see past that) as it's the House they will be living in.
And Yes if A Real Estate Agent said that to me; see the Door (use it) as there's a lot more that would kiss my A to get that commission and be more constructive with the way they worded certain things.
My thought is if it was in the Basement or RecRoom and I wanted to get the best Value; Yes By All Means; dismantle and Stage the House.
Cary
To me all real estate agent are part of the oldest profession and I have less respect for them then I do for the average oh well lets keep if pg rated and let it go at that. One who is a friend of a neighbor told me that if I ever wanted to sell my house that would have to go as she pointed to my 30'x40' shop located on the back of my property. I said who asked you for your opinion in the first place.
I have bought and sold two nice homes without the use of a Realtor up until this hacienda that was thanks to the other half sleeping up stairs but I regress. I sold my last home on my own which had a 50'x100' basement and of course the basement had a layout isn't that what basements were made for in the first place. I had the perfect family come look at the house when mom was up stairs admiring the wood work and the fire places and the view and all that useless stuff dad and the two boys were with me in the basement checking out the train room. Well all you could here was wow awesome isn't this cool and the kids said yeah dad it's great He did actually ask me a house buyers question of how many amp service did it have and every time I tried to tell him one more thing about the house he would go back to the layout are you sure it comes with the house I kept getting.
Yes t does and I'll leave it as you see it with the exception of the engines and the rolling stock. That didn't even phase him one bit. Heck he was even impressed with my System one set up. Well unfortunately they didn't qualify for the mortgage. I even was considering hold it for them personally but then my business sense prevailed. The person who did finally buy the house had no interest in keeping the layout and I agreed to remove it but that was it. It came down a lot faster then I had ever imagined it would have and they even tried to stick me at closing saying I left and unfinished basement when I agreed to take down the layout and put the basement back the way it was. When I opened the album showing the progress of the layout form day one you could clearly see that it was an unfinished basement so their argument didn't hold water and the sale went through for the highly inflated price we agreed upon.
If occasion ever came that I were to sell this house which we have zero intention of doing. I would not touch a single thing. It's still my home until the day they hand me a check and I would first give whom ever the option of leaving it or taking it down.There choice, It makes my stomach turn when I hear these real estate monger's throw around all these terms like dressing a room, or pose the house. they treat buyers like their complete idiots
I have never purchased a home before (well, yet), but I wouldn't want to be shown a house that is staged. I have seen this and it looks, well, way too fake. I would rather see people's own furniture and possessions on shelves. To me, it gives the house a more lived in look. If there are kids currently living in the home and their rooms are a little messy, it doesn't bother me.
I was shown a house once like this and it gave me ideas of how they made it work for them. The father showed me the garage and deeply apologized that it was messy. I thought it was pretty organized, but he told me that a real estate agent said it was a "pig sty" because there was lawn mowers and an oil patch where the car was parked.
Beginning in 1986 I started buying houses that need updating - mainly kitchens and bathrooms - and after doing the work I would sell and move on. I did this 4 times until I landed in my last house where I lived for 12 years. I always used the same real estate agent and I usually followed her advice. But when I sold the last place, she told me to dismantle the basement layout as well as taking down family pictures and getting rid of what she called 'clutter' because they distracted from the spaces and people needed to 'visualize' how the spaces would be used. I did and the place sold in 5 months - fortunately just before the real estate market tanked.
The agent in your post was insensitive as well as unprofessional and I wouldn't use her or her company. I found an agent that I could trust and after checking out her credentials, those of her agency and having a face to face meeting before we entered into any arrangement, our business relationship went on for a long time.
Good luck with your sale and hope it all works out for you.
There's never time to do it right, but always time to do it over.....
I'd a kicked her out on the high horse she road in on. (ahem) "rode"
Seriously, I see her point. It has come to my attention lately, that not everyone finds model railroads cool. Personally, I'd take pictures of the thing for ideas and think it was great, but I guess not all are like me. Odd.
I do however, think her gut belching response could have been a bit less. After all, like you said, it's removable and most important your house. Not hers. You could go to her house, pick out something you believe is one of her favorite things.......... scream and pass out.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.