Midnight Railroaderlocoi1sa While setting up a show a seller dropped a wad of cash by his table. I picked it up right away before some one else did and told the person he may have lost some money. He checked his box that the money fell from and confirmed what had happened. I handed him the cash (all of it) he grabbed it and put it back in the cash box. Not even a thank you or how about a 10% discount on any thing you like. Next time it happens I will have more money to spend on trains. Is that why you did it? So you'd get a "thank you" or a reward?I thought you did it because it was what was right.Then again, since you suggest you'll steal it next time, maybe not. Integrity is hard to come by these days.
locoi1sa While setting up a show a seller dropped a wad of cash by his table. I picked it up right away before some one else did and told the person he may have lost some money. He checked his box that the money fell from and confirmed what had happened. I handed him the cash (all of it) he grabbed it and put it back in the cash box. Not even a thank you or how about a 10% discount on any thing you like. Next time it happens I will have more money to spend on trains.
Is that why you did it? So you'd get a "thank you" or a reward?
I thought you did it because it was what was right.
Then again, since you suggest you'll steal it next time, maybe not.
Integrity is hard to come by these days.
I told the clerk about it, and she said that they could take it and see if anyone claimed it, as the alternative would have been that I left it at the Police. But as she thought that she knew who it was, she said it would be easier if they took it, so they took my name for reference. A week later when I was in the bank again, she told me that the person that had lost the money had claimed it and left no finders fee, wich is what I would have got if I had left it with the Police!
I will NEVER do that mistake again as next time I will leave it to the Police. I firmly believe that if you treat your fellow man good, you get good in return. If people only have Egoism as their guiding star, only bad things should become them!
Swedish Custom painter and model maker. My Website:
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I have one basic rule when buying anything at hobby shows, e-Bay, etc. If the seller does not know the item(s) they are selling, use extreme caution and prepare to play it safe and not buy at all.
Kevin
http://chatanuga.org/RailPage.html
http://chatanuga.org/WLMR.html
While setting up a show a seller dropped a wad of cash by his table. I picked it up right away before some one else did and told the person he may have lost some money. He checked his box that the money fell from and confirmed what had happened. I handed him the cash (all of it) he grabbed it and put it back in the cash box. Not even a thank you or how about a 10% discount on any thing you like. Next time it happens I will have more money to spend on trains.
The only person any of us has control over is ourselves. The fact that you weren't thanked or rewarded for doing the right thing is irrelevant. People are sometimes "rude" for reasons that aren't immediately apparent to others. The seller in question might have been mentally distracted by the task of setting up.
The best thing to do is move on and continue to do the right thing. Getting bent out of shape about another person's action in such a situation is a waste of time.
Andre
You all did the right thing. What the dealer did was almost illegal and could be argued as such (from what little I know about contract law). In any case, what he attempted to do was wrong.
I had a similar experience with the LHS. An HO Spectrum 2-8-0 was marked at what appeared to be a very discounted price. I brought it to the proprietor with cash in hand and as he ran it thru the register realized that the price tag was incorrect - and should have been $20-30 higher. He said someone switched tags on it and thankfully he knew it wasn't me (but he was pretty sure he knew who did).
Anyway, he said I will sell it to you for the marked (lower) price, and I said no, I don't want to take advantage of you. And, at the higher price I really didn't want it. He insisted, and I "gave in", and paid the lower price.
Mobilman44
ENJOY !
Living in southeast Texas, formerly modeling the "postwar" Santa Fe and Illinois Central
barrokToo bad you did not get her name or business name -- you could have reported her to the organization running the show.
This is your best bet.
Interestingly enough, I had an almost identical experience to the OP at a small town show in southeastern Ontario a number of years ago. I was probably only about 13 or 14 at the time, and I was looking for a switcher to fulfill some much needed yard duties on my small HO layout. I happened across an Athearn Bluebox SW7, which appeared to be new, or in like-new condition. I looked at the price tag, which was $15. Being on a fairly limited 13-year old's budget, I thought "well, isn't that a good deal".
I picked up the engine, walked over to the dealer, and prepared to pay for it. As I was getting out my money, the dealer said "You know this is a dummy, right?". I was surprised. I was sure it was a powered unit, and so I said to him "Excuse me? I thought it was powered." I didn't want a dummy, and if it was indeed, I wouldn't be interested in it. He took a look at the underside of the locomotive, and quickly realized it was indeed a powered unit. He looked at the locomotive, and back at the price tag. He then turned to me and said "Well, then the price is wrong. If it's powered, then I need $30 for it". I was shocked. All of a sudden, the price had doubled. I think I only had $20 on me that day, so I sadly said that in that case, I guess I wasn't interested. I walked away, disappointed, and feeling unfairly treated. Had I been older, I probably would have argued my case fervently, but at the time, I thought "well, what can I do?".
Fortunately for me, the gentleman who was hosting the show was a friend of mine (who helped me a lot with my development as a young model railroader), and he found out what happened. Having not been there at the time, he couldn't argue with the dealer, but seeing how disappointed I was, instead went and bought the switcher for me and later gave it to me as a gift. I was very grateful to him, although in retrospect, doing business with that dealer wasn't necessarily the best thing in the situation.
Looking back, I just wish I had in the first place said "Oh yes, I know it's a dummy", knowing full well it was a powered unit :P
Still, it remains as my least pleasant train show experience. I have seen that same dealer again at other shows, and have not done any business with him. I can contrast it directly with another dealer at the same shows, who has always been incredibly friendly with me, and in those same times was always quick to offer me special deals, knowing full well I wasn't overflowing with cash at my age.
-Tim
TMarshI think you set a good example and responded well. I, on the other hand would have promptly given her the loco back, and would have suggested how she could place the loco in her "roundhouse" so to speak.
Where the sun don't often shine...
dknelsonI have only sold at swap meets a couple of times and I have to admit it is a funny feeling -- if someone comes up and immediately pays your asking price you go nuts thinking "I must have badly underpriced that item." But sometimes the truth is, your buyer regards you as a store where the price is the price is the price.
I myself have bought and sold many things over the course of my life, as I'm sure many or most of you have. When I was young and/or short on funds (they sorta go together I think :-) "haggling" over the price was both more fun and somewhat of a necessity. As I have grown older and better heeled, I haggle much less, almost never in fact unless I perceive a large disparity between the perceived price and the sticker price. I am also more likely to haggle over a large quantity of items or bulk items. I do often treat the price as the price since I know what its like to have to drag that crap from one show to the next show to the next and the next and the one after that and some more shows-- until it gets really old and tired-- and you still have to box it all back up and drag it around some more. I have some respect for those folks (and I'm not talking about the dirty-dealers) they work hard for the money and often with little or nothing to show for it.
My Dad goes to the car shows to fund his hobby-- though nowdays in the current economy its more to just fund his existence-- and he's been doing it for years. He and my brother pack up the van and the trailer and head out to all the shows and set up a table and hang out for the weekend. Now I know my pop, I'm sure that 95% of the hassle is offset by the ability to hang out with all his car buddies and get a chance to check out all the other tables to see what he can drag home without my mom finding out. But I also know he puts in a lot of work and doesn't get all that much to show for it. Sometimes he's lucky to cover his table fee.
I've known sellers who do the same thing in the computer field-- go to all the computer shows, the whole bit. Same deal for them. They probably do better than the folks at the car shows, but even so they'll tell you its a huge grind. And each show looks just like the show before it and the one after it. Some of them say its the only way they can make a profit-- their stores aren't selling as much recently-- and haven't been for several years now-- there's been a big lull in the computer market for awhile.
I don't know what point I had to make really, but there is another side / viewpoint to the shows. Maybe that's my point. I generally don't haggle unless I have a handful of stuff and am looking for "a deal". Most of the time I just pay the price and smile.
John
locoi1saWhile setting up a show a seller dropped a wad of cash by his table. I picked it up right away before some one else did and told the person he may have lost some money. He checked his box that the money fell from and confirmed what had happened. I handed him the cash (all of it) he grabbed it and put it back in the cash box. Not even a thank you or how about a 10% discount on any thing you like. Next time it happens I will have more money to spend on trains.
In my opinion, honesty is its own reward.
My wife and I live near Kansas City, MO, and we try to make it to the train show held there every year. We've had nothing but GREAT experiences at those shows. I've run into sellers that may not have what I'm looking for. They take my email address, check when they get home and send me a message on whether or not they have the item. Sadly, we run into less than honorable people in all walks of life.
Marlon
See pictures of the Clinton-Golden Valley RR
Actually, the seller sounds like one of those collection sellers. Has a bunch of stuff and a book or looks at what things go for without any knowledge of most of what they sell. Next week you may find them at a festival selling knock off perfume or some other "junk" they picked up at auctions and garage sales. They are kinda annoying if you ask me, like the E-bay hunters pulling a wagon through the shows squeezing in between people and interupting conversations and deals being made to make some bid on an item they think will sell higher.
I think you set a good example and responded well. I, on the other hand would have promptly given her the loco back, and would have suggested how she could place the loco in her "roundhouse" so to speak.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
When I still lived in Ohio, I sold my unwanted stuff at several train shows a year. I would buy collections, and resell the items that didn't suit my needs. I've had incidents in both directions. I had a nice Mantua Pacific on the table, priced very fairly. A buyer made a real low offer, I countered and he walked off. He stopped back several times during the show to dicker. Finally he came one last time, and I told him it was priced as marked. Needless to say, he didn't buy. At another show I had several new Atlas/Kato diesels for sale at very reasonable prices. One fellow came by and told me I could and should offer them at higher prices. My response was to thank him and let him know that I bought them "right" and wanted to pass the savings on to fellow modelers. What goes around comes around. This hobby can be enjoyed without talking advantage of people. Being an informed consumer will keep the unscrupulous from burning you.
cacole The big mistake here seems to have been pointing out to the seller that the loco was powered and not a dummy. Simply paying her the $25 and taking the engine without telling her that she was wrong about it would have avoided a lot of grief.
The big mistake here seems to have been pointing out to the seller that the loco was powered and not a dummy. Simply paying her the $25 and taking the engine without telling her that she was wrong about it would have avoided a lot of grief.
I would not have even bothered. If I needed it then probably I would have bought it. No sense with giant hoohaws--
I had an experience with one fellow who was all up in arms over some modular clubs display---he started swinging his arms all over the place and clocked me off the back of the head. Knocked my glasses off and sent them flying on to the display. All I did was get my glasses from one of the guys who saw my glasses and left. No sense in sticking around an arguer
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
There was a dummy at the booth all right, just not in the blue box. Actually a dummy and a poor running powered Athearn unit should probably go for about the same price. Given what I see older used Athearn locomotives sell for these days, $25 strikes me as a bit on the high side for either, although I am usually looking for smaller power than a DD. Maybe I am out of touch on prices because they last time I bought blue box it was a "must sell" estate situation where the guy was not selling his own trains but was just trying to get some cash to the family. He did not want to end the day with anything still for sale.
On balance I suspect our counterparts in the tinplate/toy train part of the hobby deal with even more of this than we do. And they have the additional complication of counterfeit paint jobs and replica parts.
I have only sold at swap meets a couple of times and I have to admit it is a funny feeling -- if someone comes up and immediately pays your asking price you go nuts thinking "I must have badly underpriced that item." But sometimes the truth is, your buyer regards you as a store where the price is the price is the price.
I think we all agree that at swap meets things are sold "as is" and if the "is" turns out to be even better than the seller thought, hey that is the risk they took when they priced the item. They were more than happy for the risk to run the other way. Ultimately the situation here, both for the DD and the other fellow's story about the Varney steamer, is sellers who do not know what they are selling. Buyers not knowing what they are buying happens more often and that is where the money is to be made.
Dave Nelson
I was not trying to prove anything to him, I was wanting to see if the motor itself worked, or if that would need replacement.
If I was trying to prove something to the seller, I would have shown him what was wrong and explained to him what was done to fix the tender, and then tested it out.
So many scales, so many trains, so little time.....
Back in the mid 90s when I first got started I bought an early Bachmann Sante Fe 484 from a dealer and never went to the test track
A couple of days later when I tried to run it I found the axle was broken on the drive wheels ( later learned that this was endemic to those models )
I couldn't believe a dealer didn't know it was in that condition --it was boxed
Dumb trusting me my own fault for not test running it but still
51% share holder in the ME&O ( Wife owns the other 49% )
ME&O
Frankly, if my wife went to a train show and saw anything she wanted for $25, I would buy it immediately. Even if it was the wrong scale and era it would be on the layout somewhere.
Enjoy
Paul
I am afraid you will find these people every where and not just train shows. Bad apples do spoil a bunch. They do not even have to be sellers or patrons. We had our modules set up at a show once and an adult male in his fifties or so was arguing with me about every thing. From my steam engine switching the hoppers while the Acella was screaming past to what I made my modules from. He even bent over the rope and put his 2 elbows on the layout denting the foam. I finally lost it and said in a loud voice that I know what the module is built from because I built it!
There are sellers that go above and beyond. I was talking to a seller about an item he did not have at the show. I said I would make it a point to remind him to bring it the next show we both attend. I did not have to wait that long. A few days later it was in the mail with a note saying he can catch up with me the next show and not worry about the shipping charge. That was nice.
Over pricing junk. I see it all the time. It is usually the ones that peruse yard sales and swap shops and bring the junk to shows to unload on unsuspecting hobbyist and people that bring youngsters. They usually have the brass sectional track taped together in 5 piece bundles with a $5 price tag. Or the old Tyco train set one brass power truck, truck mounted horn hooks deep flange wheels light as a feather cars for sale.
All I have to say is do not let one bad apple spoil it for you. There are far more good people in the hobby than bad.
Jumping off now.
Pete
I pray every day I break even, Cause I can really use the money!
I started with nothing and still have most of it left!
Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760He had a Varney 4-6-0 for $5. He said that the engine was a derelict and would never run again, as it shorted out every time he ran it. I paid him the $5, and looked the engine and tender over, one of the tender trucks had been reversed, so short would always occur if placed on live tracks. The test stand was in sight of that seller's booth, so when I got the engine to purr like a kitten, he was furious.
I paid him the $5, and looked the engine and tender over, one of the tender trucks had been reversed, so short would always occur if placed on live tracks. The test stand was in sight of that seller's booth, so when I got the engine to purr like a kitten, he was furious.
Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760 Every time we passed that guy's booth at shows that he is at, he calls me a "jerk", "cheat", and a negative religious reference that I would rather not type here. That seller has been at that particular show, at the same area for the past few years, despite problems that other people have had with him as well.
Every time we passed that guy's booth at shows that he is at, he calls me a "jerk", "cheat", and a negative religious reference that I would rather not type here.
That seller has been at that particular show, at the same area for the past few years, despite problems that other people have had with him as well.
I suggest the next time it happens you help him expand his vocabulary...
slan⋅der /ˈslændər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [slan-der] –noun 1. defamation; calumny: rumors full of slander. 2. a malicious, false, and defamatory statement or report: a slander against his good name. 3. Law. defamation by oral utterance rather than by writing, pictures, etc. –verb (used with object) 4. to utter slander against; defame. –verb (used without object) 5. to utter or circulate slander. (from: Dictionary.com)
/ˈslændər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [slan-der]
Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760I found the website for the group that runs the shows held at that location, and am going to file a report with them as soon as I get a reply back, as their "contact us" page only allows a 128 character message, hardly enough to describe the seller and how she treated my wife.
On the contrary, I believe you will find your have an excess of 123 characters. 122 if you punctuate.
john
I did not find out her name, but the banner on her booth said Scotsman's Trains.
I found the website for the group that runs the shows held at that location, and am going to file a report with them as soon as I get a reply back, as their "contact us" page only allows a 128 character message, hardly enough to describe the seller and how she treated my wife.
There were plenty of good sellers there, including one that insisted that I test run a pre-war Lionel 1684 that he fixed up. He was concerned that I might not like it since the whistle was removed, but that matters little to me.
I have had something similar happen before at a show in Williamantic, CT a few years ago. There was a guy that was selling a few Varney "Old Lady" 2-8-0's and "Casey Jones" 4-6-0's, of which I have a small number of each. He had a Varney 4-6-0 for $5. He said that the engine was a derelict and would never run again, as it shorted out every time he ran it.
He came over to the test tracks and demanded that I pay him $40 more since the engine runs, or he was going to take the engine back. ($45 was the price of the other Varney 4-6-0's he was selling). I told him that I paid the price that he asked and that I was not going to buy from him again.
He tried claiming that I swapped tags to one of the staff members at the show, who had seen me perform the repairs and had even heard the discussion the seller and I had about the engine before I bought it. Needless to say, the staff member sided with me, and told the guy to give me my engine back.
It has gotten to the point that my wife insists that that we travel outside of connecticut for train shows, to avoid seeing that particular seller.
Why is it that we have never had such problems with a seller outside of connecticut? Seriously.
Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760My wife and I went to a train show in Wallingford, CT earlier today. During the course of looking around, my wife found a somewhat beat-up Athearn DD35A that she liked. The tag on it said $25.
This is an old Athearn wide hood model and is not even worth the $25.
Be glad the person did not sell it to you.
CZ
What that woman did was wrong. Whats even more wrong is trying to get 50$ for a beat up old Athearn DD40. I felt $25 was a little high. I have a feeling that lady doesn't sell much merchandice with those prices.
Walking away was the right thing to do.
Y'know I've had similar troubles as both a buyer and seller... I once thought I'd like to be in the Hobby Shop business and bought an estate collection that I resold on Ebay, and a basic order of DPM and Woodland Scenics items....
I had buyers taking issue with my 10% above cost pricing for new items, and fair value pricing of used ones... I could 't win there... As a buyer, I can't tell you how many times I've had sellers pop off to me for asking a question...
Where I come from it is considered polite to make conversation...
Modeling the Motor City
Railroader_Sailor_SSN-760 My wife and I went to a train show in Wallingford, CT earlier today. During the course of looking around, my wife found a somewhat beat-up Athearn DD35A that she liked. The tag on it said $25. I asked the woman that was running the booth if I could test it out, and she said that the engine was a dummy, I pointed out the flywheel that was visible through the frame and the fact that the wheels did not freely spin. So I tested the engine out, and found that it ran, albeit roughly, likely nothing a good cleaning would not fix. When I got back to the booth the woman asked if the engine ran and I replied that it did, after some help moving. She asked if we were interested in the engine, my wife replied that she was."Hmmm.... $25... nope......"The dealer took off the $25 tag and replaced it with a $50 tag. My wife got rather upset with the dealer quite rapidly, to the point where I had to drag her away before she lost her temper with the dealer.Now my wife is upset that she did not get the engine that she wanted me to get for her. I suppose $50 is reasonable for the engine, despite the work needed to the shell and handrails, but with the dealer's rather sharp tongue and insistence that the tags she placed on items she was selling was not the actual price, I did not feel that I should buy anything from her.Did I do the right thing by refusing to deal with this woman, or should I have paid the $50? I am even starting to doubt that I should have tested the engine out, and just paid the $25 at the start of it all.
My wife and I went to a train show in Wallingford, CT earlier today. During the course of looking around, my wife found a somewhat beat-up Athearn DD35A that she liked. The tag on it said $25.
I asked the woman that was running the booth if I could test it out, and she said that the engine was a dummy, I pointed out the flywheel that was visible through the frame and the fact that the wheels did not freely spin.
So I tested the engine out, and found that it ran, albeit roughly, likely nothing a good cleaning would not fix. When I got back to the booth the woman asked if the engine ran and I replied that it did, after some help moving.
She asked if we were interested in the engine, my wife replied that she was.
"Hmmm.... $25... nope......"
The dealer took off the $25 tag and replaced it with a $50 tag.
My wife got rather upset with the dealer quite rapidly, to the point where I had to drag her away before she lost her temper with the dealer.
Now my wife is upset that she did not get the engine that she wanted me to get for her. I suppose $50 is reasonable for the engine, despite the work needed to the shell and handrails, but with the dealer's rather sharp tongue and insistence that the tags she placed on items she was selling was not the actual price, I did not feel that I should buy anything from her.
Did I do the right thing by refusing to deal with this woman, or should I have paid the $50?
I am even starting to doubt that I should have tested the engine out, and just paid the $25 at the start of it all.
You should have charged her a $25 consulting fee for fixing her "dummy" locomotive.