Like many of us I am always checking out the various on line sites where one can buy sell or trade his train stuff he no longer wants or is in search of a bargain. I have seen multiple requests for guys looking for brass track. I just have to ask why, whats the attraction? I know brass is a pretty good conductor of electricity but the trade off of how fast it oxidizes and how often one needs to clean it just doesn't make sense. My curiosity got the better of me and I found a couple of boxes up on a forgotten shelf in the work shop storage area which had about 150 pieces of brass track still in fairly good condition for stuff over 40 years old. Some of which looked brand spanking new and some looked like it was fished up from the bottom of the bay. So can anyone enlighten me as to why anyone would still want to use brass track?
Brass track pros:1). It's a better conductor than Nickel-Silver, meaning that there will be less voltage drop per foot of track.
2). It's "stickier" (higher coefficient of friction) than Nickel-Silver track, meaning that any given loco will pull better when running on brass track.
3). It's cheaper. There's a lot of it around and not much demand for it which means that it can be had for less...sometimes much less...than Nickel-Silver.
Brass track cons:A). It's the wrong color. Steel railheads are silver in color which can be replicated by using Nickel-Silver track. Brass track is, well, brass colored...and then it can turn green with age.
B). It gets "dirty" faster. The oxidation that forms on brass is an insulator, while the oxidation on Nickel-Silver actually conducts electricity. This means more times cleaning track.
C). It's generally of a less real appearance due to most of brass track being Code 100 in height, and having huge nubs of plastic for spike heads (or even fiber ties with staples). Brass was on the way out of the market when the more highly detailed switch manufacturers starting coming around. Therefore, most are of old construction and do not look as good as modern day Nickel-Silver switches.
But it's cheaper...which is the most important reason for a lot of people.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Last time I even touched the stuff was when I was just a kid back in the 90's.
I seem to remember my brother saying that it was less expensive back then but I could be wrong. Other than that, I can't think of any reason why one would use it today.
And now that Paul mentions it, my brother also said brass was better at conducting electricity.
Lionel tubular track was made of steel right? I wonder what the benefits of steel are in comparison to brass?
Hey it beats the heck out of me too for the life of me I can come up with one even so so reason why I would want to use it but there are guys out there who want this stuff. I have just been checking around to see what it's worth but it doesn't seem like very much/ Although there was one guy on eBay who was asking $1.65/section geese you can buy code 100 nickle silver for that or pretty darned close.
I guess like the old saying goes, One man's trash is another man's treasure.
Every one's idea of a hobby is not spending great gouts of money to buy the latest 2-6-8-4, try to get the control system to work, realize it doesnt run anyway and use it as a door stop with all the rest of their knick-knacks. Some people like to restore vintage models and just watch them go. Brass track is what there was, then, so it is what they want now. I agree with them.
rjake4454...Lionel tubular track was made of steel right? I wonder what the benefits of steel are in comparison to brass?
Works with magnetraction.
Brass track can work very well. I started with it and for a small layout the cleaning requirements are fairly easy. If cost is a prime consideration, then it's better than not having a layout.
Enjoy
Paul
Why would anybody want to use a Chinese made loco, rolling stock or track? I don't know either, but people spend hundreds of dollars on them anyway. Answer that question first before you trash somebody that uses brass track. come to think of it, why would anybody still model in HO scale? Or use the #5 coupler? don't you guys realize there is better stuff out there? And who would want to use a control system that cost more than the car they drive? Anybody still using wood for benchwork?
Why does anybody care what somebody else uses for track anyway? If you see somebody using a model railroad component that offends you, then ask them directly why they are doing such a thing. I'm sure they will be happy to apologize to you for using brass track or plastic wheels, or diesels. Or just reference the thread "annoying train show patrons"
The Dixie D Short Line "Lux Lucet In Tenebris Nihil Igitur Mors Est Ad Nos 2001"
Perhaps someones wants to build a staging yard and has no intentions of running a locomotive onto that track.
6 -
The last time I used brass track was in the 1980's (maybe the late 70's, can't recall), that was also the last time I had an HO layout set up. Too bad I didn't know how bad brass was. I just ran my trains and occasionally cleaned the track. I wish I knew that trains wouldn't run on that junk ...even though they seemed to do fairly well - really fooled me!!! Now-a-days I use NS on my N scale layouts. It really must be much better (everyone says so) even though neither I nor my trains can tell the difference.
OK, sorry for the obvious sarcasm, but I still have boxes of brass track (some unopened), dozens of turnouts and all the locos and rolling stock (yes, with plastic wheels - oh my) that ran on them. If I ever build another HO layout, odds are pretty good I'll polish them up and use that stuff before I go out and buy new and better stuff.
I'm sure people here will have a bunch of horror stories about how bad brass track was/is and the problems it caused, but I'm also willing to bet that there are a lot of people who haven't been on the internet or read all the MR publications who still use the stuff, either for permanent layouts or just at X-Mas time and just don't know how bad their stuff is really running.Oops, there's the sarcasm again ...
tangerine-jack Why would anybody want to use a Chinese made loco, rolling stock or track? I don't know either, but people spend hundreds of dollars on them anyway. Answer that question first before you trash somebody that uses brass track. come to think of it, why would anybody still model in HO scale? Or use the #5 coupler? don't you guys realize there is better stuff out there? And who would want to use a control system that cost more than the car they drive? Anybody still using wood for benchwork? Why does anybody care what somebody else uses for track anyway? If you see somebody using a model railroad component that offends you, then ask them directly why they are doing such a thing. I'm sure they will be happy to apologize to you for using brass track or plastic wheels, or diesels. Or just reference the thread "annoying train show patrons"
mmmm--mmm--that is always the issue---there is always a better system---My favourite question? Why do you have so many elevators and feedmills?---d'uh---because I model a mainly agricultural area.
sheeesh--if I went out and got newer stuff every dang time there was a hick up I'd be flat broke in no time. I do think the self appointed trendoids could be shills working at a bargain basement price so that we can pump up the sales figures. I have some dreaded brass track we use for a Xmas display under our tree-----when 'Spring' doesn't go stalking the lokies around the tree------oh. Did I say LOKIES?---OOPS--
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Isn't it amazing how defensive people are these days?
BillD53A,2-6-8-4's? Control Systems? What does that have to do with brass track?
As I said, brass track is cheaper mainly because it's unpopular. If price is the single most important thing, then brass track is the better option. But there is such a thing as "penny wise and pound foolish" (not that people that use brass track are foolish...it's just a saying). Brass track does have issues, you have to admit.
As for using it because it's old or collectable... There aren't too many of those types of modelers in HO scale. That's more of a tinplate attitude where folks insist on using Lionel track even tho' better Gargraves track is available. Why? Because the Lionel track is what they had when they were a kid. HO modelers are not, in general, historical collectors. Sure, there are some, but not many. Using brass track because it's old is certainly an acceptable reason, but you have to realize that you are with a very small minority...so small that most HO'ers probably don't even know you're around.
IRONROOSTER,I don't think it's fair to say that one can have brass track or no layout unless one already has brass track just waiting to be used and next to no hobby budget. If one is buying track for a new layout, the N/S track will be more expensive so it may result in a smaller layout or a layout that takes longer to complete, sure. But if the cost of N/S track is keeping one from building a layout, then perhaps this hobby shouldn't be theirs. I mean, a loco of any decent quality costs $50-$75 these days. Atlas Code 100 N/S flex track is $4.65 MSRP per yard, and can be had at Trainland for $3.15 per yard. That's 45 to 69 feet of track for the cost of one decent loco of BB/P1K quality.
tangerine-jack,Who trashed anybody? Before we have to answer why we would want Chinese-made items, want to model HO scale, want Kadee #5's, want DCC...you have to actually show us where anyone was actually "trashed" over the use of brass track in this thread. Sheesh.
basementdweller,Um, sorry, but staging tracks are meant to be run on. Why? Because you are staging a whole train on the staging track...hence the name.
Archer1,No one ever said that brass track could not be made to operate well. My old club layout ran with brass track for 45 years. But when we moved, we went to all N/S track. Why? Mainly because it looks better. We have also gone to all-metal wheels. Why? Because they run better and leave less dirt on the rail. We even went with DCC. Why? Because it operates our trains more realistically. Did this come with an added expense? Yes, but we think it's worth it. YMMV.
Archer1 6 - The last time I used brass track was in the 1980's (maybe the late 70's, can't recall), that was also the last time I had an HO layout set up. Too bad I didn't know how bad brass was. I just ran my trains and occasionally cleaned the track. I wish I knew that trains wouldn't run on that junk ...even though they seemed to do fairly well - really fooled me!!! .............. Archer
The last time I used brass track was in the 1980's (maybe the late 70's, can't recall), that was also the last time I had an HO layout set up. Too bad I didn't know how bad brass was. I just ran my trains and occasionally cleaned the track. I wish I knew that trains wouldn't run on that junk ...even though they seemed to do fairly well - really fooled me!!! ..............
Archer
Yes well put! I too ran my Life-Like and Bachmann trains for thousands of hours and thousands of scale miles on brass track through the 70's and 80's without realising they wouldn't work. If only I had known that rubberband traction wheels and horn hook couplers would cause my layout to suffer a total existance failure! Probably what saved me back then from my own ignorance was the grass mat over particleboard scenery, no doubt it countered the ill effects of the brass track (which didn't work and you had to clean it ever 42 seconds or it would grow green gobs of corrosion). Yup, many thousands of hours spent not knowing my stuff wasn't going to work at all......
Oh, can anybody explain to me how it is I have brass track on my outdoor G scale layout and in the last 8 years I've only cleaned it once each spring? If brass is so evil, then this cannot be. Or maybe brass track isn't as bad as everybody thinks. Can anybody explain to me then, why with 8 years of outdoor use (in wind and rain and sun and hurricanes) that my brass track has held up so well, why anybody would want to use a lesser metal on an indoor layout?
Paul3Isn't it amazing how defensive people are these days?
I had to laugh--couple of days ago we started to put up the Xmas tree RR with the brass rails and one neighbour who came in for coffee started listing all the issues with the brass rail. I looked at him and asked whether he noticed where it was being used------he looked and went ---"oh".
I think it is kinda funny that there are people who can't seem to see the context (Xmas tree RR) for the form(brass rail). Maybe it could be that we are trying to find approval for everything we do-----gets kinda old after awhile
Here's one side of brass you never hear mention..Its a cold hard fact.
Brass track along with brass wheels gives your locomotive more tractive effort.I am no scholar on the reason why that is but,know it's true.
Also brass track requires the same amount of cleaning as NS track-usually very little..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
Paul3 B). It gets "dirty" faster. The oxidation that forms on brass is an insulator, while the oxidation on Nickel-Silver actually conducts electricity. This means more times cleaning track.
The claim that it needs cleaning more often is one I've taken issue with on several occasions. All you need to do is search for threads about track cleaning on this forum. How many of those people posting hints on cleaning track have brass rail? Few if any, I'd bet. Whether the "dirt" is oxidation or just what settled on the rails from the atmosphere or from the locomotives, cleaning is cleaning.
My current layout has a combination of brass and NS rail, and both need to be cleaned. Ive actually had more issues with the NS rail giving me hesitation spots than the brass.
This claim can easily be traced back to the introduction of NS rail, which cost more than the same track sections in brass. They had to make it sound better in some way to make people willing to spend more for it.
Send me all the brass track you don't need , I'll be happy to use it, and boo to you guys who just throw it away, ask around, there are a few of us "brass freaks'' out here that will put this track to good use, by the way, any of you N/S users, do you really NOT clean your track? good luck ! the conductivity comments on the quality of brass are right on, as are the comments.
I have a lot of brass sectional track that I will not be using. Most of it is in very good condition, never ballasted or new, never been used.
Why am I not going to use it?
It's code 100 and it's sectional. I want to switch to code 83/70 and use flex track to cut down on joints.
That is the only issue I have with brass I have on hand. One of these days, I'll try putting it on eBay to pass it on to someone who will make good use of it.
BTW, if your brass is turing green it's something other than the brass rail that's causing that, IMO. I had one old brass turnout that tarnished like that. It was left exposed outdoors through winter and spring thaw. I wonder why it turned green? lol!
"Oh, can anybody explain to me how it is I have brass track on my outdoor G scale layout and in the last 8 years I've only cleaned it once each spring? If brass is so evil, then this cannot be. Or maybe brass track isn't as bad as everybody thinks. Can anybody explain to me then, why with 8 years of outdoor use (in wind and rain and sun and hurricanes) that my brass track has held up so well, why anybody would want to use a lesser metal on an indoor layout? "
Ok I have to ask is your G-scale battery operated like mine with hand held remotes or is it powered by a DC power supply? If it's battery operated then it really doesn't matter if the track is made of wood or plastic or cow dung all it the train is doing is riding on the rails the power is all internal. The grade of stainless steel track put out by Bachmann is just shy of a joke. Many people don't know that thee are different grades of stainless, some far cheaper and not as strong or durable as others.
When posting this question I didn't think there would be people who could actually be so defensive of others opinions In my opinion I think it's foolish or just plane pig headed to use only technology when newer and better is available. You want to argue cost, we have a club member who dam near had a fit and threatened to quit when brass track was voted out years a go. When you ask him why he stomps his foot literally and says because the other stuff you guys want to use is just too damned expensive and I've always used nothing but brass. This is a guy who will think nothing of dropping $2500 plus on a brass import locomotive and I have seen his collection of brass engines some in the $4000 range so you want to talk about penny wise pound foolish.
Does code 83/70 nickle silver look more realistic I believe thats a no brainer, is the coloring "more prototypical" no question yes it is brass is a fairly good conductor of electricity no question but then again so is gold so should we have track made of gold so it's the best conductor for electricity? You want to run brass then go ahead run all the brass you want I run nickle silver and I like it and in my opinion its like comparing a 1966 Corvette stingray to a 2009 ZR-! Corvette both really hot cars both engineering master pieces in their own right and both really fast cars, but put the 1966 up against the ZR-1 in a head to head match up and people will laugh at you plain and simple. Tons of comparisons could be made with equal validity
But there is no reason why people have to get down right belligerent, rude and nasty just to state their opinion. some here need to grow up and act their age and not their shoe size. If this sort of nonsense continues I humbly ask one of the moderators to lock the post so we don't have to keep slinging mud back and forth.
Allegheny2-6-6-6 Does code 83/70 nickle silver look more realistic I believe thats a no brainer, is the coloring "more prototypical" no question yes it is brass is a fairly good conductor of electricity no question but then again so is gold so should we have track made of gold so it's the best conductor for electricity?
I'd say that it is true that brass is a better conductor---so is good ol' H2O for that matter--but so what if someone chose to use that over NS. As to track appearance---if the dang thing is weathered no one will really notice the difference. There is a fellow down the street from us who uses brass track on his layout--has for the past 30+yrs--works quite fine for him.
Allegheny2-6-6-6But there is no reason why people have to get down right belligerent, rude and nasty just to state their opinion
Nicely stated there---no one needs to get in a huff over someone using brass.
Brass track is collectible here. I'm quite serious! Set it out by the curb Monday night and it will be collected Tuesday morning. As for the last time I used the stuff, that would have to be around the end of 1979.
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
If it conducts better than NS what about using it in hidden staging or in tunnels where we won't see it often?
tatansSend me all the brass track you don't need, I'll be happy to use it.
Seconded. I actually have a few ideas that may make the top look more realistic (we paint the sides anyways, right?) I just don't have any brass track to test them on.
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
My G gauge is DC track powered on a TrainMaster wireless. I have no issues with brass track being used outdoors and I've never had any issues with it being used indoors either. I simply don't see why brass is so vilified by the modeling community as a whole.
As a side note, my '71 Triumph can show a clean set of heels to any new Triumph, and it still has drum brakes and a kick start. Newer isn't always better.
" As a side note, my '71 Triumph can show a clean set of heels to any new Triumph, and it still has drum brakes and a kick start. Newer isn't always better."
I wouldn't be bragging about that, Triumph = Lucas electric" the prince of darkness" it's why the English drink warm beer they own Lucas refrigerators
Guess there is always GM--Ford---Chrysler----GM---Ford --- Chrysler---
Why convert simple difference into a brouhaha
Myself----code40 when I'm all finished----
Allegheny2-6-6-6 " As a side note, my '71 Triumph can show a clean set of heels to any new Triumph, and it still has drum brakes and a kick start. Newer isn't always better." I wouldn't be bragging about that, Triumph = Lucas electric" the prince of darkness" it's why the English drink warm beer they own Lucas refrigerators
Don't knock British beer unless you've tried it.
Beats the heck out of that Budweiser and Coors swill which is reminscent of the bladder contents of a panther.
Andre
tangerine-jack,Can we please turn down the hyperbole to a dull roar?
No one trashed anyone who uses brass. No one has said brass track doesn't work. No one said that you had to clean it every 42 seconds. You are merely agitating this thread for your own amusement. Please stop.Brakie,"...you never hear mention..." Try looking at post #2 on this thread. It's my post. Now actually read it. Note that under the heading "Brass track pros:" there is a subtopic #2 that says, "It's "stickier" (higher coefficient of friction) than Nickel-Silver track, meaning that any given loco will pull better when running on brass track."
If you want the best friction between wheels and rail using common materials, use sintered metal wheels (as found on Athearn BB's) on brass rail. These two materials have the highest coefficient of friction combination over steel, N/S, or all brass. Of course, sintered metal wheels are "dirt magnets", but when clean they will out-pull anything short of rubber or "Bullfrog Snot".
It's also a fact that when oxides form on brass, it's an insulator. When it forms on N/S, it's a conductor. These are facts that can be found in any materials textbook. Now, whether that makes a difference is open to question. But it's still a fact.
TomDiehl,Do you think that N/S's look just might be the real selling point? Real rail is silver in color, not gold.
tatans,Do you actually prefer brass track? IOW, if someone set out a box of brass track and a box of N/S track and you could pick on...would you choose the brass?
tangerine-jack,Sigh. No one is "villifying" brass track. My No. 1 reason I personally have against it's use on my own railroad is it's appearance. And G-gauge brass track looks truly awful, IMHO. And yes, I have a bunch that I got from my neighbor for my waaay off in the future outdoor layout.
Paul3 TomDiehl,Do you think that N/S's look just might be the real selling point? Real rail is silver in color, not gold. Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Nope. When was he last time you saw real rail that was silver anywhere but the top? And only if it is run on regularly. The rust color that rail truly is would be closer to the color of brass track.
andrechapelonAllegheny2-6-6-6 " As a side note, my '71 Triumph can show a clean set of heels to any new Triumph, and it still has drum brakes and a kick start. Newer isn't always better." I wouldn't be bragging about that, Triumph = Lucas electric" the prince of darkness" it's why the English drink warm beer they own Lucas refrigerators Don't knock British beer unless you've tried it. Beats the heck out of that Budweiser and Coors swill which is reminscent of the bladder contents of a panther. Andre Ah well we agree on that both should only be used for cooking hot dogs or chicken on the BBQ The only beer in my refrigerator which ain't a Lucas so it's nice n cold.................lol is call Chimay Grande Reserve Blue from Belgum try some of that and let me know whatcha think mate. And there's no Brass involved..........lol
Ah well we agree on that both should only be used for cooking hot dogs or chicken on the BBQ
The only beer in my refrigerator which ain't a Lucas so it's nice n cold.................lol is call Chimay Grande Reserve Blue from Belgum try some of that and let me know whatcha think mate.
And there's no Brass involved..........lol
TomDiehl Paul3 TomDiehl,Do you think that N/S's look just might be the real selling point? Real rail is silver in color, not gold. Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven******************* Nope. When was he last time you saw real rail that was silver anywhere but the top? And only if it is run on regularly. The rust color that rail truly is would be closer to the color of brass track.
Sigh---
Look people. It's only brass rail. Who is really gonna notice if'n the dang stuff is weathered anyhow? And why should you care if'n Joe Plebe down the road has brass rail---if the rail works for him, big whoop. Besides, is N/S so weak in sales that we need to knock brass around some to convince more people to shop for N/S? By the way some are reacting to brass rail here you'd think that there must be really something wrong with N/S. Sheeesh----
Brass rail. N/S's Radical Other------booga booga----sheeesh
Paul3 wrote:Brakie,"...you never hear mention..." Try looking at post #2 on this thread. It's my post. Now actually read it. Note that under the heading "Brass track pros:" there is a subtopic #2 that says, "It's "stickier" (higher coefficient of friction) than Nickel-Silver track, meaning that any given loco will pull better when running on brass track.
----------------------------
Sorry Paul,no offense but,I don't always read what you post unless I happen to see my moniker mention..