Maybe it's just me, I'm new to this whole thing.....after our train club meeting last night I was re-reading Great Model Layout 07 (they had a good feature article on deck height) and it occurred to me that since I've been subscribing to MRR and seeing all the outstanding layouts month after month after year and being apart of this forum I can only remember like one thread that was started from a guy who actually had his layout in the magazine.
So what gives?!?! You get published and they ban you from posting?? Do the master train guys not have computers?? Are you all posting under secrecy?!?! How does MRR find all these top notch layouts?!?!? If you start getting really good at stuff does MRR contact ya and say, hey, no posting, we may want ya to do an article so we can sell it and your like giving away to much info.....
Guess I'm just a bit confused... and that's normal for me. So just to be on the safe side, from now on I'm not going to post any more updates/photos on my "New Train Room Started" thread or any or any cool ideas, tips, or suggestions cause some day I may actually be good enough be asked to be in a COOL MAGAZINE or SPECIAL EDITION and I don't want to ruin my chances by posting here! Or at least until I figure out this conspiracy...
HEY, wait a second! I bet they have their own super secret board!!!! YAH... that's got to be the deal. Their own Master Model Railroad forum .... The inner sanctum!
Ah well... maybe some day I'll be asked to join..... but most likely not, as I tend to be, somewhat of a rabble rouser - an ain't establishment sort of guy.
Loco Maybe it's just me, I'm new to this whole thing.....after our train club meeting last night I was re-reading Great Model Layout 07 (they had a good feature article on deck height) and it occurred to me that since I've been subscribing to MRR and seeing all the outstanding layouts month after month after year and being apart of this forum I can only remember like one thread that was started from a guy who actually had his layout in the magazine. So what gives?!?! You get published and they ban you from posting?? Do the master train guys not have computers?? Are you all posting under secrecy?!?! How does MRR find all these top notch layouts?!?!? If you start getting really good at stuff does MRR contact ya and say, hey, no posting, we may want ya to do an article so we can sell it and your like giving away to much info..... HEY, wait a second! I bet they have their own super secret board!!!! YAH... that's got to be the deal. Their own Master Model Railroad forum .... The inner sanctum!
To be quite honest, you're not all that far off the mark with that comment. Only just a few of the folks who have had their layouts in the magazines seem to participate in any of the more general on-line forums. Most choose posting to more specialized venues, populated by others working at comparable skill levels.
CNJ831.
L:
Keep looking in Trackside Photos and Boomer Trail. Every now and then I run across a name I recognize from the interwebs. It's fun when that happens. :)
One thing to remember is that a lot of us are using various Internet handles which aren't necessarily our real names. Another thing to remember is that this is a very big hobby, and any magazine or online forum will probably include a very small fraction of the total, just because that's how such things work, and the fractions won't tend to overlap a lot.
Getting published also has a lot to do with non-model-railroading skills. Most people who have appeared a lot in the magazines have been somewhat into photography. Photographing miniature scenes is tricky. This is getting easier, now that digital cameras are cheap.
I think a lot of people don't realize that the apparently perfect layouts in MR and RMC aren't so unusual. They're excellent layouts, to be sure, but I've seen plenty of work by posters here that is every bit as good, and often the builders only show it with all sorts of apologies, because they don't think it's "as good as the stuff in MR". Usually, though, it is.
The key is that the layouts in MR are photographed well. Take a good ordinary layout, set up a decent scene, light it well, and take a good clear photo that captures the best features of the scene, and you might find you've got a masterpiece after all.
CNJ is right on the mark. This forum tends to be too rapid fire, and very broad in its discussion. While it would be great to have some of the heavy hitters answer questions about which train set to buy for a beginner, or how to decal a locomotive, the fact is that they've typically moved on to more meaty topics such as the quality of motor armatures, micro-engineering an N scale climax, or operations topics related to their favorite prototypes.
More engaging topics that require more in depth discussion than can happen here, where topics can sink like a stone due to sheer volume.
That's not to say that this is a bad thing. A ton of really good information gets posted here, but sometimes you have to weed through the Diners and Beer Barns to find it...
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
A number of our fellow posters have appeared in recent Trackside Photos spreads, just over the past few months.
Maybe if we'd spend less time in front of the computer and more time modeling, we'd be able to do that, too.
It takes an iron man to play with a toy iron horse.
CNJ is spot on..The heavy hitters are on more specialized forums including one of the forums I moderate on..
No,I am not a heavy hitter but,just moderate on one they conjugate on by happenstance.
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
There's another format you're missing, and that is the mailing list. The Diesel Modeler's List and the freight car modeler's list (whatever it's called...Master Car Builder's List?) are just two examples I know of. These represent high-end concepts and ideas. They are usually moderated in as much as troublemakers are usually dropped quickly and you don't have the howling hordes yelling about how adding small grab irons on Walthers passenger cars is too much of a bother (or what-have-you). On the diesel modeler's list, they have been known to replace the Blomberg sideframes on Atlas locos with Athearn ones using adaptors that require a complete tear down of the gear tower and use of a Dremel tool. Now, I'm fairly detail orientated, but I'm not doing that.
Quite frankly, advanced modelers would probably be bored on a general topic forum like this one. Likewise, general modelers would probably be bored with advanced concepts. On this forum, a topic about what a "real" model railroader is can go on for days. Meanwhile, a thread about how to install a Cannon & Co. diesel access door would probably sink to page 2 within hours. That's neither good nor bad, it just is.
Oh, and another thing... Many "master" modelers are too busy working on their layout or on their models to contribute heavily to an internet forum or list.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
Reading through the posts in this thread, it appears to me, as if those master model railroaders are a secret bunch of people, members of a secret lodge, hiding somewhere in the mountains. They also want to stay among their own kin and only now and then allow us to take a glimpse at their work of art.
Some of those "secret guys" are right among us and they do contribute quite a lot to this forum. I hope you don´t mind mentioning you, Wolfgang, as pars pro toto, but you are certainly a master model railroader.
Sir Madog Reading through the posts in this thread, it appears to me, as if those master model railroaders are a secret bunch of people, members of a secret lodge, hiding somewhere in the mountains. They also want to stay among their own kin and only now and then allow us to take a glimpse at their work of art. Some of those "secret guys" are right among us and they do contribute quite a lot to this forum. I hope you don´t mind mentioning you, Wolfgang, as pars pro toto, but you are certainly a master model railroader.
Sometimes they just get tired answering the same, endless "why can't my Big Boy go around 15 inch radius curves?" questions.
Dave H. Painted side goes up. My website : wnbranch.com
dehusman Sir MadogSome of those "secret guys" are right among us and they do contribute quite a lot to this forum. I hope you don´t mind mentioning you, Wolfgang, as pars pro toto, but you are certainly a master model railroader. Sometimes they just get tired answering the same, endless "why can't my Big Boy go around 15 inch radius curves?" questions.
Sir MadogSome of those "secret guys" are right among us and they do contribute quite a lot to this forum. I hope you don´t mind mentioning you, Wolfgang, as pars pro toto, but you are certainly a master model railroader.
No problem, Ulrich.
English is not my first language, that slows me down.
And - one big point - sitting in front of the computer gives no picture from a model. (I'm retired )
Wolfgang
Pueblo & Salt Lake RR
Come to us http://www.westportterminal.de my videos my blog
I thought that was you! When I get home tonight I'm going to dig out that issue and show it off. I can say "why yes, I know that person...sort of". I was also published in MR, but nothing like this. At the very front of the issue they usually have a page that advertises the MR website and online extras and such and a few months back (I will check tonight) they showed a pic of some of the forum posts and one of my early posts was featured in this little, um, featurette. Like I said, I will get it tonight. Rather proud of it even though it's true value amounts to nothing but self pride, but hey isn't that a very valueable thing in itself. I think I just talked myself into a circle and confused everyone.
They're among us, they just choose to be humble and helpful.
San Dimas Southern slideshow
Does that mean that whenever I get my layout published in MR (I've written the article, but I need more photos to include in it!) then I can't post here anymore?
Maybe if we would spend time modeling and less time posting on forums we all would be masters as well.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
TrainManTyDoes that mean that whenever I get my layout published in MR (I've written the article, but I need more photos to include in it!) then I can't post here anymore?
It may mean that, once you get paid to write, you'll decide not to give away your stuff anymore.
I'd consider wm3798 a heavy hitter
N Scale Diesels......I like 'em
Wow, this thread took off! We will never really know who is who of course. If one wants to keep a low pro, and I figure many do, it's all good.
I for one will keep posting. I like it and it's a sociable thing as well.... not that I would want to drink a beer with half of yas but you all really have some interesting thoughts and ideas that even the masters might find interesting.
Hopefully we ALL keep passing on and along good insights. No way I could EVER come this far with out this board.
Fugate is still around here. I think?
"Being misunderstood is the fate of all true geniuses"
EXPERIMENTATION TO BRING INNOVATION
http://community.webshots.com/album/288541251nntnEK?start=588
Just came to my thought, how much power and experience is gathered in this foum.
We have track planning specialists, like cuyama and SpaceMouse, not to forget steinjr. We have DCC and electronics specialists like davidmbedard. We have the weathering masters like AggroJones, Robby P., Neutrino. We have numerous scenery specialists, operation specialists etc. The list is by no means complete, so please excuse me if I have not included you!
Where are all Master Layout Posters?
Right here!
There are several well-known modelers who post regularly here, as well as a number of knowledgeable individuals. It can be frustrating for them, as I've experienced, because many people who ask for feedback won't accept suggestions or criticism, and only want validation.
Even I had a layout-plan article published in Model Railroader. Big woopdie-doo.
The biggest problem with the MR forum is with the few individuals who (1) have no sense of humor, (2) believe the last one stating an opinion has won the disagreement, and/or (3) maliciously slander others. Those kinds of behaviors, I imagine, keep many from participating. Too often, posters hide behind the anonymity MR allows them.
Mark
Hi from Belgium,
I don't know if they feel the interest to come on this or like this forum
May be one of the reason, they want to be in peace and not answer to about a myriad of questions about their work.
It's not a critic but we must admit that sometimes some questions or some post are so basic for a middle level modelist.
So I beleive they prefer to rest anonymous.
I am a menber of a few Yahoo modelers groups, and you can find often post or answer of well know modelers which have published numerous article in the MR magazines.
They prefer to surf on this type of "forum".
It's just what I am thinking about it and I beleive I will do the same if.......
Marc
AggroJonesFugate is still around here. I think?
No he left. The moderators here scared him away
It is human nature!
Some of the very best are humble guys that would not enjoy the fame and notoriety of openly posting on such a large forum.
It is the nature of the magazine!
With the best will in the world MRR mag is a general magazine aimed at the masses. Through necessity it is the mag that brings beginners into the hobby. The content is therefore targeted at a beginner - intermediate modeller. It also happens to pay as well as any mag and frankly has the best photography of any of the published mags. So while it may feature many master MRR's and is attractive as a place to submit material, the content may not be of great interest to the masters of the craft.
It is the nature of developing in this hobby!
I am no master by any measure. I have been back in the hobby for 8 years now and have found that my interests have developed into a focus on more specialized parts of the hobby. I tend to look at forums more closely aligned to my main interests. I think this is a perfectly natural progression and one that many of us go to. Nothing against this forum, as it is the highest traffic, best run general MRR forum on the web.
Many of the big guys are in business.
For obvious reasons this forum does not permit blatant advertising and promotion within threads. Many of the big names in the hobby are in business and to openly post here might be seen as overt promotion. Joe Furgate is a prime example, now that he has an on-line publication which many would consider to be direct competition to MRR. To Joe's credit you don't see him here promoting his on-line presence.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
I started to pass on by on this one, but decided instead to "burst the bubble". First, I hold the MMR (#138) from the NMRA, have since the late 80's. Second I was published in MR in 1984, April I believe, don't have it in front of me. MR staff came and did the photos, I wrote the article, and yes was paid for it. The publishing was done in conjunction with publicity for the NMRA National to be held in my city that year.
That layout came down a few months later and I began my current three deck with helix layout because new space opened up, and I wanted to try the concept. I do not consider my layout any work of art, I am terrible at working with wood and construction, but the layout still stands. However, because the layout is now 25 years plus in age, it is no longer "state of the art", though I do use DCC, I still have some of the switches I built by hand in place, etc. In short, I just enjoy the hobby with others. Kansas City has a lot of guys with MMR's and great layouts, but I don't hear any of them blowing their horn, and I don't intend to either. As I said, I consider myself out of date with a lot of the new things, and I would rather see the new guys coming along being published, and posting their ideas because the hobby has to progress, not look backward if it is to continue to grow and bring in new modelers. You guys make your mistakes, I made mine. But I do enjoy the "exchanges" that happen on this forum and I do at times interject my comments. Okay?
Bob
Maybe they are beyond us. I don't mean that the way it sounds, not in a bad way, but AGGRO, Neutrino and RobbyP among others, though very, very helpful, eventually will tire of answering the same Future Floorwax question. What is new to some of us is old stuff to them. I'm also sure that if they went to a weathering seminar they would either sleep through most of it and pay attention mainly to the parts they have not mastered yet. (if there is a part they haven't mastered yet), or not attend the levels that don't interest them in their furtherance of their skill. Maybe this Forum is too basic for them and they tire of the track plan questions or the questions on brands of locos etc. I'll bet as someone said you could find them on the more specialized threads or forums. If they do the forum thing at all. Not knocking them or this forum. Because there are a lot of talented masters here that may or may not have been published but are more into this type of area and also the others etc. Any way I think you know what I mean. Some things are just not for everybody.
And another thing, these guys are just people who picked up a train or a brush for the first time at some point just like us. Why do we refer to them as Godlike? "The Masters" like it's some elitist group of untouchable modelers. IMHO, and not taking anything from them for they are fantastic, but gee whiz, if we all had the time and space and the, you gotta admit....money, we could do the same thing. Well, most of you, I think I'd still be where I am. Not many of us have a loft over our garage, or an entire basement that the wife lets us have control over. And the money to buy and the time to build. Also keep in mind the whole layout you see is a drawing. The 5 or six photos is all you see of the real thing. I was talking to a guy who has had the opportunity to visit one of these magazine layouts and he said he was disappointed. Though what was there was great, the layout wasn't at all finished and the only portion that was, was the portions shown in the magazine. One end I believe is what he said was completed. The majority was what we call a plywood prairie. So I think if I concentrate on certain areas and scenes of the railroad instead of trying to put all buildings then the landscape then the ballast etc, a couple good scenes and voila! A master!
I'm NOT taking anything away from these people, ("these people" see now I'm doing it) because they are truly talented individuals, what I'm saying is I have seen quite a few magazine quality modelers in here, too many to mention, they just haven't written and submitted their layout or don't feel it's good enough, or isn't done, or whatever. I'm saying.... Go for it! Write those articles, submit those pictures. Flood Kalmbach with the stuff. Finished layout or not, they only publish the track plan and a few photos. Do some scenes and send them in. Pelle just taught us how to take pictures in the Sept issue and you already have a willing group of photo editors here to help you with the screening. What have you got to loose? You'd be modeling. You're modeling anyway.
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
pastorbob I started to pass on by on this one, but decided instead to "burst the bubble". First, I hold the MMR (#138) from the NMRA, have since the late 80's. Second I was published in MR in 1984, April I believe, don't have it in front of me. MR staff came and did the photos, I wrote the article, and yes was paid for it. The publishing was done in conjunction with publicity for the NMRA National to be held in my city that year. That layout came down a few months later and I began my current three deck with helix layout because new space opened up, and I wanted to try the concept. I do not consider my layout any work of art, I am terrible at working with wood and construction, but the layout still stands. However, because the layout is now 25 years plus in age, it is no longer "state of the art", though I do use DCC, I still have some of the switches I built by hand in place, etc. In short, I just enjoy the hobby with others. Kansas City has a lot of guys with MMR's and great layouts, but I don't hear any of them blowing their horn, and I don't intend to either. As I said, I consider myself out of date with a lot of the new things, and I would rather see the new guys coming along being published, and posting their ideas because the hobby has to progress, not look backward if it is to continue to grow and bring in new modelers. You guys make your mistakes, I made mine. But I do enjoy the "exchanges" that happen on this forum and I do at times interject my comments. Okay? Bob
See? Just normal people.
In Bobs last line he expresses hi like for the forum "exchanges" here. Some may not. Some may not like to "talk" over the computer at all as it's so informal, and of course like Mark said, there few who hide behind the annonymity provided and are just plain malicious. Very few though. They like a more personal face to face discussion. I wouldn't think that they are of a mind they are better than us, they just have different interests by now. Some, like Bob stick around because he enjoys it, others move on.
Interesting comments here. I'm thinking that the word/phrase "Master Layout Posters" can be a very context sensitive and interest relative thing as well. Some of these guys may not even think of themselves in this term while others may do such, while readers like myself may just look and go--"Gee, how'd dey do dis?". I have some MRR mags from the 1980's that have Pastor Bob's layout in it as well as a batch of others who have been in/out of MR'ing and I've seen other posters work in Trackside Photos and I'm very impressed with what I've seen here as well.
I'm still grubbling around figuring things out---and getting inspiration from all sides
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
TMarshWhat is new to some of us is old stuff to them. I'm also sure that if they went to a weathering seminar they would either sleep through most of it and pay attention mainly to the parts they have not mastered yet. (if there is a part they haven't mastered yet), or not attend the levels that don't interest them in their furtherance of their skill. Maybe this Forum is too basic for them and they tire of the track plan questions or the questions on brands of locos etc. I'll bet as someone said you could find them on the more specialized threads or forums. If they do the forum thing at all. Not knocking them or this forum. Because there are a lot of talented masters here that may or may not have been published but are more into this type of area and also the others etc. Any way I think you know what I mean. Some things are just not for everybody.
1. People post on these forums because its fun, its a hobby. Nobody pays anybody for posting on any of thee forums. So for anybody to participate they have to enjoy doing it. Will somebody who is a "master" (whatever that is) enjoy discussing "elementary" level subjects or will they enjoy discussing "master" level subjects?
2. In order to have a discussion on some things, it may involve constructive criticism. Telling people that they should have or could have done something another way, and instructing them on that other way. Quite frankly many lists, this one included, is pretty adverse to criticism, even constructive criticism. It is way more into affirmation. A "master" isn't of much use if all they do is tell you "Good job!"
3. "Masters", especially well known ones can easily become overloaded with requests. It is a matter of how much time and effort the "master" has to invest in each answer. If a person is a "master' then they care about the quality of the answer and they will put research and careful thought into their response. Because they are a "master" they probably have accumulated a large body of reference material on whatever subject. They will take the time to tap into that body of info. At a certain point they can simply get burned out. And if they do take the time to provide detailed information and are drowned out by a dozen posts by affirmers telling the person to just "do what they want", then the "master" will have wasted his time and expertise. Which is related to......
4. Masters become a lightning rod for people challenging their ideas. I have seen several "masters" who have left forums when they were unable to present a coherent message because everything they offered was challenged, contradicted and shouted down. This is not to say that "masters" are infallible, but the whole point of having a "master" is to learn from them and to recieve their knowledge. If the forum isn't receptive to the "master", then he's wasting his time participating.
5. The forums may not address the interests of the "master". If the "master's" specialty is highly detailed freight cars and the forum rarely discusses accurately detailing freight cars or is adverse to accurately detailing freight cars, then the "master" won't participate on the forum.
Imagine a forum, for master model railroaders exclusively. What should they talk about, they have a proven record of knowing just about every aspect there is in model railroading? No open questions, no answers missing...
What a boring forum this would be!!!
I am far from being a master model railroader (we do not know this term in Germany), but I am not a novice, either. In over 40 years of building layouts, I have made many a mistake, and I will continue to make mistakes, hopefully different ones... Yes, I have probably a fair amount of knowledge on the issue, but I am still eager to learn from others. And I DID learn a lot from my friends in this forum!
Next to building and operating layouts, you know what I like best? You guessed it - sharing experience, communicate on model railroading issues and last, but not least, the social "life" that comes with it.
dehusman2. In order to have a discussion on some things, it may involve constructive criticism. Telling people that they should have or could have done something another way, and instructing them on that other way. Quite frankly many lists, this one included, is pretty adverse to criticism, even constructive criticism. It is way more into affirmation. A "master" isn't of much use if all they do is tell you "Good job!"
dehusman4. Masters become a lightning rod for people challenging their ideas. I have seen several "masters" who have left forums when they were unable to present a coherent message because everything they offered was challenged, contradicted and shouted down. This is not to say that "masters" are infallible, but the whole point of having a "master" is to learn from them and to recieve their knowledge. If the forum isn't receptive to the "master", then he's wasting his time participating.
These two tie in quite well. When it gets to the point that everyone is crabbing and bellyaching about everything you do and say then why bother? Sometimes it may just be that it's that time of year or month or what have you that is at root of the crab sessions. It may not even have anything at all to do with the poor guy. Some of this shows up in the funniest ways. So the nonreceptiveness may not be just the "master" --it could be our own issues---