At Your LHS, Are You a List or an Impulse Shopper?

[blownout cylinder]

Paul3

IMHO, the idea behind the "I don't have as much to spend on the hobby as I used to" is that people are spending their potention hobby dollars on things that just didn't exist back in the day: PC's, internet access, cell phones, etc.  All the goodies of modern life all cut into the hobby budget. 

Also we see that the idea of saving was more important back then than now. That is also where a lot of our discretionary income may, in fact, be coming from. We are seeing a modest increase in the savings rate---let us see what that does to the discretionary income in the next little while

[BRAKIE]

Paul,Don't forget there was thousands of high paying Union jobs back then as well as thousands of office jobs.

 Very few worked for minimum wage back then.

[Paul3]

Excuse me for coming into this thread late, but I had a recent post over on the Atlas forum that involved digging up Athearn prices over the years from www.hoseeker.net (a website that has old catalogs from years gone by). 

For comparison to today's prices, I'm using http://www.bls.gov/data/inflation_calculator.htm 

The model I've chosen is the Athearn 40' AAR boxcar because of the long production life and current availability.  All prices are MSRP.

Prices from old Athearn Catalogs -
1948: $2.75 or $2.95 kit (metal sides)
1953: $2.50 or $2.95 kit (metal sides)
1954: $2.50 or $2.95 kit (metal sides)
1957: $1.29 kit, $1.98 RTR (current plastic construction)
1958: $1.29 or $1.49 kit, $1.98 or $2.25 RTR
1959: $1.98 or $2.25 (I'm assuming RTR)
1960: $1.98 or $2.25 (I'm assuming RTR)
1961: $1.98 or $2.25 (I'm assuming RTR)
1962: $1.49 or $1.69 kit, $1.98 or $2.25 RTR
1971: $1.98 kit
1974: $1.98 kit
1975: $1.98 kit
1981: $2.85 kit
1988: $3.50 kit
1991: $4.00 kit

Unfortunately, that's all the website has for old Athearn catalogs.  However, there is the internet archive site, the Wayback Machine (http://web.archive.org), which lists old Athearn website captures (among thousands of others).  This website has the following prices:

1998: $5.75 kit
2000: $5.75 kit
2003: $5.75 kit
2004: $7.25 kit
2005: $7.25 kit, $13.98 RTR
2007: $7.25 kit, $13.98 RTR

Or, in 2009 dollars:
1948: $24.61 or $26.40 kit (metal sides)
1953: $20.20 or $23.83 kit (metal sides)
1954: $20.05 or $23.65 kit (metal sides)
1957: $9.90 kit, $15.20 RTR (current plastic construction)
1958: $9.63 or $11.12 kit, $14.78 or $16.79 RTR
1959: $14.68-$14.28 or $16.68-$16.23 (I'm assuming RTR)
1960: $14.68-$14.28 or $16.68-$16.23 (I'm assuming RTR)
1961: $14.68-$14.28 or $16.68-$16.23 (I'm assuming RTR)
1962: $10.64 or $12.07 kit, $14.14 or $16.07 RTR
1971: $10.54 kit
1974: $8.64 kit
1975: $7.94 kit
1981: $6.76 kit
1988: $6.38 kit
1991: $6.33 kit
1998: $7.61 kit
2000: $7.20 kit
2003: $6.74 kit
2004: $8.28 kit
2005: $8.01 kit, $15.44 RTR
2007: $7.54 kit, $14.54 RTR

Today from Horizon's Website -
2009: $7.75 kit or $14.98 RTR

So if folks want to argue prices, at least now there are some legit MSRP's to argue over. 

Since I'm on the subject, I thought I'd dig up minimum wage figures for the years I've called out for Athearn 40' AAR boxcars. The first minimum wage act of 1938 only applied to interstate commerce jobs. It took until 1961 before it applied to retailers, gas stations, et al, and by 1966 it was pretty much universal.

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/chart.htm

Minimum wage per hour for interstate commerce jobs only -
1948: $0.40
1953: $0.75
1954: $0.75
1957: $1.00
1958: $1.00
1959: $1.00
1960: $1.00

Minimum wage per hour for large retailers, construction, gas stations, etc. -
1961: $1.00
1962: $1.00
1971: $1.60
1974: $2.00
1975: $2.10

Minimum wage per hour for just about everyone else, non-farm -
1971: $1.60
1974: $1.90
1975: $2.00

Minimum wage per hour for all covered, non-exempt workers -
1981: $3.35
1988: $3.35
1991: $4.25
1998: $5.15
2000: $5.15
2003: $5.15
2004: $5.15
2005: $5.15
2007: $5.85
2009: $7.25

To bring the facts together, a minimum wage worker would have to work a minimum of X amount of hours of labor to earn enough money to buy the least expensive Athearn 40' AAR boxcar, where X =

1948: 6.88 hours
1953: 3.33 hours
1954: 3.33 hours
1957: 1.29 hours
1958: 1.29 hours
1959: 1.89 hours
1960: 1.89 hours
1961: 1.89 hours
1962: 1.49 hours
1971: 1.24 hours
1974: 0.99 hours
1975: 0.94 hours
1981: 0.85 hours
1988: 1.04 hours
1991: 0.94 hours
1998: 1.12 hours
2000: 1.12 hours
2003: 1.12 hours
2004: 1.41 hours
2005: 1.41 hours
2007: 1.24 hours
2009: 1.07 hours

IMHO, the idea behind the "I don't have as much to spend on the hobby as I used to" is that people are spending their potential hobby dollars on things that just didn't exist back in the day: PC's, internet access, cell phones, etc.  All the goodies of modern life all cut into the hobby budget. 

Paul A. Cutler III
*******************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*******************

[jwhitten]

blownout cylinder

SteamFreak

Medina1128

If I wasn't, I wouldn't  have 25 locomotives..

 

Only 25? 

I'm definitely a list buyer at the LHS. It's that danged eBay that's the problem... 

And I'm sitting at 74 with 2 more coming in----

 

I'm at a shade under 200 with a few more coming soon... 

[blownout cylinder]

SteamFreak

Medina1128

If I wasn't, I wouldn't  have 25 locomotives..

 

Only 25? 

I'm definitely a list buyer at the LHS. It's that danged eBay that's the problem... 

And I'm sitting at 74 with 2 more coming in----

[SteamFreak]

Medina1128

If I wasn't, I wouldn't  have 25 locomotives..

 

Only 25? 

I'm definitely a list buyer at the LHS. It's that danged eBay that's the problem... 

[aloco]

Making a list is useless unless I know for sure that the hobby shop has the items I want in stock.

I'm an impulse buyer, but when I buy locos and cars I confine my purchases to the eras I model.  If it's N scale, nothing later than mid-1950s.  If it's HO scale, nothing later than mid-1970s.  And I try to restrict my purchases to the railways I model: CN and GN in N scale and CN and CP in HO scale.  I'll buy some stuff in foreign road names too, but I won't go hog wild.  

[twhite]

Well, just to prove my point about being an Impulse shopper with a List, I went into Railroad Hobbies in Roseville the other day to pick up some ready-made background trees for my Tahoe National Forest re-planting program. 

Got the trees.  I ALSO walked out of there with a Walthers Rio Grande caboose (Platinum Line with all of those gawd-awful little hand-grabs pre-installed)--AND a Proto 2000 Rio Grande L-107 2-8-8-2, #3508.  Yah, they just HAPPENED to be there!   Loco runs like a charm, hauls like a mule (unusual for Proto steam, IMO), but I had to do Major Surgery on the Walthers caboose to get the trucks to swivel on anything less than a 42" radius (do they TEST run these things before they mass produce them?). 

So--IMPULSE strikes again.  I'll never learn, by golly. 

Tom

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

blownout cylinder

Just to toss another one into the ring, how about the "buy it now or regret it later" scenario? What with all the limited runs and the attention on GIANT locomotives and such----we all may become precarious impulse buyers of one sort or another------

There. That should finish this thread off-----

Well, I have bought a piece or two in 40 years, thinking I would kitbash this, or modifiy that, then decided the project was not as economicly or fuctionally sound as first thought. Such items where easily liquidated at swap meets or on Ebay with the proceeds going directly toward the next project on the list.

Sheldon

[Fox14120]

 So far a research shopper. Just starting out and seeing whats out there by which companies and making a list and hoping stores have some of this stuff. Not many stores in my area and most are a hike out to.  Still not comfortable shopping online yet haven't seen enough in person to know what i'm getting.

[IRONROOSTER]

blownout cylinder

Just to toss another one into the ring, how about the "buy it now or regret it later" scenario? What with all the limited runs and the attention on GIANT locomotives and such----we all may become precarious impulse buyers of one sort or another------

There. That should finish this thread off-----

 

Well it can lead to that.  That's why having an established theme and era for the railroad can help limit you to what fits. 

OTOH this is a hobby so why not run that cab forward on your NYC line from time to time.

As long as your hobby spending doesn't adversely affect your life or those who depend on you, I'm not sure it matters whether you buy strictly from a plan, strictly from whimsy, or somewhere in between.

 I don't see why we can't keep this thread going another 8 pages or so.

Enjoy

Paul

[blownout cylinder]

Just to toss another one into the ring, how about the "buy it now or regret it later" scenario? What with all the limited runs and the attention on GIANT locomotives and such----we all may become precarious impulse buyers of one sort or another------

There. That should finish this thread off-----

[BRAKIE]

 CNJ,Those Athearn cars of which you speak came at various prices that range from $3.50-$5.00.

Today these same kits has a $7.25-$9.25-the price doubled  on some cars...

That's a sufficient price increase over the last 20 years.

Of course everything else has gone up to over those last 20 years.

Of course all the former  BB kit engines that now comes RTR has doubled in price with their upgrades-excluding the old F7 of course..

 

 

 

[loathar]

I make a list, but since my LHS rarely has anything on it, I turn into an impulse buyer.

[CNJ831]

I'll offer just one last post and then drop out of the discussion because, as we all know, it's leading no where, as is unfortunately the usual case. Folks wish to selectively cite only long ago prices as a basis of comparison, rather than those from much more recent times when the hobby was without question, far cheaper. 

As I've pointed out here many times, there was a long lull in prices from the 70's through the 80's when the hobby became steadily less expensive relative to personal income. Sheldon, too, acknowledged that fact but I don't think many wish to recall that in these discussions. So let's look at some of the prices from just over 20 years ago, rather than those more than half a lifetime in the past.

The following are taken from ads in the February 1987 MR. Athearn F-7, GPs 9 and 35, SW-1500, S-12...all $11.99 . Most Mantua steam $20-$60. Atlas N.S. 3' flex track $.89 to $.95 per. Athearn freight cars $2.25-$2.75. Shinohara regular turnouts are in the range of $8. DPM structure kits $4.95-$5.95 Hejan structure kits, mainly $6.30 to $12.99 . California Models kits, virtually all under $14.00 . Kadee freight cars $7-$10.  

Now go to your current MR or your LHS and see what the same, or similar, items retail for today. According to the accepted inflation figures, the change should be 1.9x. Let's hear what you find.

CNJ831

[jwhitten]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Still seems to me the prices of hobby items are right in line with other values in the economy.

Yes there have been peaks and valleys between than and now, but the longer the time span, the more you see the REAL value of things does not change much.

Sheldon

 

 

It should also be noted for the record that I do most of my grousing as I'm opening and closing my wallet... 

[BRAKIE]

CNJ831:

It has been debated on here before, and documented in great detail, that ajusted for inflation the products offered today in this hobby are no more expensive than they have ever been. And considering the improvements in detail and loco performance, things may well be cheaper today than in years past by any sort of "value" test....

CNJ831

---------------------------

Actually you can't really compare today's prices with yesteryear's.We are talking about 2 complete and different eras.Yesteryear mom stayed home and did the house wife routine..Today she works to help makes ends meet...Yesteryear there was thousands of good paying Union jobs.Today they're all but gone being replace with $10.00/hr light industrial jobs...

Sure a BB kit was $1.98 back then compared to $7.00-10.00 today but,like yesteryear people still have disposabile income for their simple pleasures of life..

I can still remember the outcry when Athearn raise the price from $1.98 to $2.25 and higher for some cars in '61.

 Nothing new there except back then I didn't hear anybody comparing  the 50/60s prices with the 20/30s prices.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

jwhitten

However, in contrast, the cost of track though has risen more sharply than the cost of Nickel-Silver. I know I paid $270 bucks in about 2003 for *two* cases (100 pcs each) Atlas Flex Track and cases are now running around $400 bucks each for the same thing today, although you can sometimes get it for a little less on ebay and such. (When I get home tonight I'll look it up in a relevant issue of MR and re-compute with the prices stated).

Around 1970, when Atlas introduced code 100 nickel silver flex track, the price was $1.00 ea or $100 per box of 100 pcs.

There was very little discounting going on at that time, but I did find one MR ad from back than offering it at $0.69 ea. 30% off was a BiG discount back then.

Standard Hobby has an ad in the latest MR offering code 100 NS Atlas flex for $249.99 per box of 100. And the new improved code 83 is only $309.99 per box of 100. I use this price because discounting in the norm today.

Even using the $0.69 price, that is only an increase of 3.6 times. EVERYTHING else you buy in the real world is more than 4x its 1970 cost. That would mean nice cars should only be $16,000 (my father bought an expensivre car in 1969 for $3,450.00) and gasoline should only be $1.40 and so on.

Even comparing retail to retail you still get something similar to the costs of other items in the economy.

1970 - $100.00 per box of 100, 2009 - $525.00 per box of 100 or 5.25x. $4000 car in 1970 x 5.25 = $21,000. I just bought a new car, not a budget model, not an expensive one, $31,000 or almost 9 times what my father paid in 1969.

Still seems to me the prices of hobby items are right in line with other values in the economy.

Yes there have been peaks and valleys between than and now, but the longer the time span, the more you see the REAL value of things does not change much.

Sheldon

[IRONROOSTER]

To misquote John Armstrong a little:

The hobby cost has always been the same - all you can afford.

Some years I can afford more than others.  I buy ahead when I have the money and cut back when times are a little tight.  Frankly, I have enough stuff after 38 years in the hobby that I could happily model in any of 3 scales for years.

I admit you need a little to get started, but 5 turnouts about 3 lengths of flex or equivalent sectional track, 4 - 6 cars, one switcher, one power pack and you are in business with a Timesaver layout.  Total cost to start can be less than $200.  Optionally you could add bumpers, uncoupling magnets, switch machines, buildings, scenery, etc.   After that it's just more extras as you grow the empire..

Enjoy

Paul

[TheNarrowGaugeMan]

I'm basically like the guy who goes to Bass Pro Shop to get a tackle box and comes home towing a boat. But I still get the tackle box!

The Narrow Gauge Man

[jwhitten]

CNJ831

It has been debated on here before, and documented in great detail, that ajusted for inflation the products offered today in this hobby are no more expensive than they have ever been. And considering the improvements in detail and loco performance, things may well be cheaper today than in years past by any sort of "value" test....

CNJ831

 

 

If you consider "Nickel-Silver", which is a commodity of interest to many of us I'd wager, its cost has risen only moderately in the past 20 years-- about a 50% increase overall. While products made with "Nickel-Silver" have increased substantially more than that, depending on the manufacturer.

Nickel-Silver (which actually contains no 'Silver') is an alloy made up principally of about 18% Nickel, 65% Copper, and 17% Zinc. The exact proportion varies a little from mfgr to mfgr, but is approx the same- enough for our purposes. The 1990 prices for those metals (per pound were: $3.60, $1.50, and $0.80 respectively, making a pound of "Nickel-Silver" cost about $1.73. In 2000 the prices were: $3.40, $1.75, and $1.25, respectively, making a pound of "Nickel-Silver" cost about $1.97, which is about a 14% increase. In 2009 the prices are: $6.00, $2.50, $0.50 respectively, making a pound of "Nickel-Silver" cost about $2.84, a change of about 44%.

Then there are the costs for "plastic", tooling, stamping, etc. I suspect those prices however have remained essentially the same or have dropped over the same period, seeing how everything seems to be made in China these days, but I'd have to do additional research in order to substantiate that statement. Perhaps someone else here knows and could provide more information.

However, in contrast, the cost of track though has risen more sharply than the cost of Nickel-Silver. I know I paid $270 bucks in about 2003 for *two* cases (100 pcs each) Atlas Flex Track and cases are now running around $400 bucks each for the same thing today, although you can sometimes get it for a little less on ebay and such. (When I get home tonight I'll look it up in a relevant issue of MR and re-compute with the prices stated).

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

markpierce

CNJ831

Of course, I expect none of the above will alter the mindset of those that insist nothing has changed with regard to the hobby's cost.

Quite right in that this discussion isn't changing people's minds or contributing to our enjoyment of the hobby.  Now let's try spending our time on interesting and productive discussions.

Mark

Well Mark, I'm about to give up on this forum in regard to actually sharing modeling ideas since every time I share something from my 40 years experiance in the hobby, someone responds with "that can't possibly work" or "why would you do that when you can just go buy XXX" (for three times the money - hobby too expeinsive?) or "that's not good enough because it only has six rivets and the prototype had seven" or "you use Atlas track (nose snubbed up), you can't be serious" or "what do you mean, you don't use DCC" or, going back to my very first post on here "you can't talk about that because you might eventually make a dollar or two from it" and so on. What about all the hobby shop owners, custom painters, DCC installers who are on here all the time and it is clear who they are and what they do?

I gave up on snob appeal modeling years ago and am having fun. But apparently that is of little interest here. Here everything is snob appeal or whinning about something. So admittedly I have played along a little.

Sheldon

 

 

 

[dand200]

Impulse buyer here, if I have a list or not.  I have the money to buy a little something every time I visit.  A magazine, scratch building parts, etc, etc.  I enjoy my LHS and go to visit if I need something or not.   Most of the time I don't need anything.  I want that place to stay open for ever, and I may not always have the money to spend, but I do now and I will.  My visits there are relaxing and enjoy this hobby too much to start thinking about the economy and how it has affected the pricing at the store.

Dan

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

CNJ831,

As I said before, I will agree many people may not have the disposable income of years past, that is not a result of hobby prices.

I also agree with your analysis of the price level plateau, the same thing happened with energy costs but that does not make $2.40 a gallon gasoline unreasonable today, it just gives us a higher "emotional" resistance to it.

I will also completely conceed the technolgy advancement issue.

I am 52, I actually started in the hobby at 10 years old, my father helped me bulid a rather nice layout on 2 5x9 platforms. At age 14 I got my first job in the hobby shop (1971), I worked in hobby shops either part or full time until the early 80's.

As to the perception of whether or not the hobby is expensive, at any particular point in time, depends mainly on two personal issues - how much layout your trying to build and how much disposable income YOU have at that time. Has the cost of the hobby changed in relationship to your, or your friends, personal situation? - Maybe. But I submit this is not the doing of the manufacturers or the retail distribution network - but rather a function of our poor economic policy and the state of the economy.

If you just want to fill two 5x9's and run a few trains around, I submit its still not very expensive, but if you NEED DCC and sound, if you are buiding a basement size empire, with hundreds or thousands of freight cars and hundreds of locos, if you have radio throttles or signals, etc, etc. I submit it has always been EXPENSIVE.

As a person who has spent most of my life self employed, and who has studied economics, I do not look at the cost of the hobby from an emotional or personal view, but rather from a mathmatical one.

Like this: Number of hours worked = cost of new F7. With some fluxuation, they are the same, 1968 and today. The fact that I may need that money for other things, or did not need the money for other things in 1968, has no bearing on the "value" of the F7.

Hence my comment - Earn more money or fix the economy.

Market forces have squeezed all the excess markup from the hobby industry and kept prices as low as possible. The rest of the "probelm" is outside of the hobby industry in our over taxed, over regulated economy.

To further deminstrate the "emotional" side of this, I personally struggled for many years getting business going, raising children, etc. But now, children are grown, house is PAID for, no bills, dispite the economy I have had plenty to spend on trains in recent times. So while you thought it was inexpensive, a big layout seemed out of reach for me, now you think it is expensive and I am building my dream layout.

Your path in life may have been different. Maybe you worked for a big company, made lots of money at 40 years old and now have a fixed retirement. So everything seems too expensive, I don't know. I chose a path that was risker and harder in the begining and more secure once it succeeded.

Again, I don't know any of that about you, but that does not make the cost of the hobby higher or make it the fault of the hobby industry.

And I've never been an "impluse" buyer of anything because I have ALWAYS had to work hard for what I have.

Sheldon

 

[markpierce]

CNJ831

Of course, I expect none of the above will alter the mindset of those that insist nothing has changed with regard to the hobby's cost.

Quite right in that this discussion isn't changing people's minds or contributing to our enjoyment of the hobby.  Now let's try spending our time on interesting and productive discussions.

Mark

[CNJ831]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

CNJ831

Now there are certainly at least some folks who can still afford to do that currently, but their numbers are far, far smaller than in the past. The really big difference, at least for most guys, is that in the past the extra/disposable cash you normally carried around in your wallet would more than have covered the total cost of the unexpected purchases. The expenditure was considered no big deal and we're talking real paper money, not plastic.

I have to disagree. All of your statements about how much "other" people have to spend are not based in a facts as far as I can see. How do you know how much others are spending? Or where they spend it?

It has been debated on here before, and documented in great detail, that ajusted for inflation the products offered today in this hobby are no more expensive than they have ever been. And considering the improvements in detail and loco performance, things may well be cheaper today than in years past by any sort of "value" test.

Now as to how much disposable income people have today, that may be a different story. But that too has a lot to do with individual life styles and personal situations. Sheldon

Sheldon, given the length of your post, let me address only a couple of points.

While I admit that I can not provide hard figures regarding exactly who spent what, when...I doubt such exist...I can say that for many years every hobbyist I knew, when making their weekly trek to the LHS  and after putting the item(s) they came specifically to buy up on the front desk, would most definitely spend an additional good half hour perusing the shop's aisles and shelves inevitably picking out extra items that simply caught their eye. This was a universal practice, at least in my area, but a procedure that is rarely evident any longer in any shop I visit. Guys now mainly come in, purchase the item(s) they came  specifically for and leave. If some of the guys happen to hang around to chat, the conversation will sooner or later turn to how pricey the hobby has become. This was not a topic of conversation I recall covering in years long gone by and certainly not an imaginary situation. Rather, it is an area of growing general concern among a great many longtime hobbyists I know.

As you point out, many earlier threads counter that when prices are adjusted for inflation, the relative numbers supposedly don't change over time. However, what one actually considered the relative value of X number of dollars to be back in say 1968 is not necessarily what the government today says the"adjusted" figures are equal to. Back in 1968 virtually any locomotive in the Athearn line was available in the NYC area for between $9 and $12 retail (nothing like the $20 you quote, just look in MR). Such a price ($9-$12) might have been considered by the individual as perhaps around what $40-$50 is today but nothing like the $200 some Athearns go for today. I recall walking around with $50 spending money in my wallet back in '68 without giving it much thought and I can tell you very quickly that in recent years I've certainly never done so with anything like the $700 you suggest it equates to today. The adjusted numbers simply don't accurately reflect the actual situation that existed.

Regardless, the real change in the cost of the hobby is more obvious when one uses much more recent times than 1968 for comparison. Compare prices from the late 80's or early 1990's across the board with today's. I suggest this because hobby prices experienced a very long plateau through the 70's and much of the 80's, where the hobby actually became progressively cheaper relative to a hobbyist's income. This situation is overlooked by many in discussing the matter at hand but is highly significant.

Another point that always troubles me is when someone brings up how much better models are today than long ago and what a great value you are getting today. Have folks not heard to the progress of technology? Products always get better with time...and most of them do so without much increase in retail price. HO trains in 1968 were incomparably better than what was available in 1945 (and dramatically less expensive to boot!). By the early 1990's the better HO models were putting most of those from '68 to shame. So, that today's models are much better all around is simply to be expected...but a doubling or tripling (or more) of their prices is far out of line in my book. 

Of course, I expect none of the above will alter the mindset of those that insist nothing has changed with regard to the hobby's cost. But as someone who has been associated with the hobby to one degree or another for the span of a lifetime, I can definitely say that neither I, nor any of my hobbyist friends, ever regarded model railroading as an expensive pursuit until relatively recently.

CNJ831

[twhite]

Well, here's two examples of "Planned" and "Impulse"

Planned:

PCM Rio Grande F-81.  Was new in the brass case at Railroad Hobbies.  Asked Mike if he could put a hold on it while I figured out the finances to buy it.  He did.  Came in a week later and bought it, after CAREFULLY planning out how I'd pay for it. 

Impulse: 

Rio Grande L-131 2-8-8-2 from PFM.  Saw this at CabooseHobbies while I was perusing their brass consignment page.  Didn't even think, grabbed my Visa and typed all of the goodies into the ADD TO CART.  It arrived four days later.  Run in and painted about three days after that. 

 

An instance where both have REALLY worked for me. 

Tom

[blownout cylinder]

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

OR, maybe they just use a credit card rather than cash and pay it off every month when the bill comes?

If that is done then fine but apparently, all too many go the opposite route. I was at our favourite clothing store recently and saw about 3 people in front of me getting told that their cards were no longer good. And the cards taken----everytime I use a card the money is already in the bank. ACCH! Some people just have different criteria--

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

Cash/credit, makes no difference IF you have the money. If you don't I would suggest you should not be buying trains.

And some who did not have the money either found ways to save up or got another job-----simple- Not quite like some nowadays who do not even understand the concept of saving. HMMM in 1968 the saving rate was about 7.5%. In 2006 it stood at 0.2%. Is/was that where the disposible income came from?

[Texas Zepher]

luvadj

Well, unlike going to the grocery store on an empty stomach, I go to the LHS with a list to keep those urges at bay...:)

I shop for bargains.  I have a list, but don't buy until I find the item on sale.   Other times if I find a really good bargain I'll buy them all up and resell to pay for other things.

[ATLANTIC CENTRAL]

blownout cylinder

ATLANTIC CENTRAL

CNJ831

Now there are certainly at least some folks who can still afford to do that currently, but their numbers are far, far smaller than in the past. The really big difference, at least for most guys, is that in the past the extra/disposable cash you normally carried around in your wallet would more than have covered the total cost of the unexpected purchases. The expenditure was considered no big deal and we're talking real paper money, not plastic.

I have to disagree. All of your statements about how much "other" people have to spend are not based in a facts as far as I can see. How do you know how much others are spending? Or where they spend it?

AAAHH!! But how many people are going around charging it to their credit card? I still think there is a huge difference in terms of how it is done---I save up the hard cash and buy it by cash. Someone else may buy the same thing using credit card when they may be nearly maxed out--is this a good thing? Maybe not? 

OR, maybe they just use a credit card rather than cash and pay it off every month when the bill comes?

I am self employed, and I manage 4 rentals my wife and I own. I spend thousands every month, personal and business, on credit cards that I pay in full every month. I do carry some cash, more than many people these days, but I understand those who don't. My wife carrys only enough cash to buy an occasional lotery ticket and to get the grandchild a happy meal. EVERYTHING else she spends is on credit cards we pay in full every month.

Cash/credit, makes no difference IF you have the money. If you don't I would suggest you should not be buying trains.

Sheldon