Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
I have a Spectrum 2-10-0 that came with a Tsunami, and have also installed a regular Tsunami in an engine. The one Bachmann uses is in relative terms "stripped down" but you have to understand a regular Tsunami has like 120 different CV options for sound, speed, lighting etc. The "stripped down" version "only" has maybe 40-50. It's still a very very good decoder.
It includes Back EMF, numerous options for setting the type of "chuff", whistle and bell you want, setting the timing to match the drivers, lighting options, etc. Really the only thing missing are things most decoders don't offer in the first place, like a Graphic Equilizer, Echo/Reverb settings, and some "crew" items like the sound of the fireman shovelling coal or the crew in a panic because of an impending train wreck.
A Soundtraxx LC decoder is a good decoder, I use them in several diesels and am happy with the result. The problem I would expect with a steam engine is that without BEMF you're going to have trouble keeping the engine chuffs in time with the drivers, since the engine will speed up or slow down while going up and down grades. I'm sure you could add a TCS regular decoder with BEMF and wire up the sound decoder to do sound only.
selector Ah, I now see where you are coming from. Yes, the Bachmann sound decoders are a "stripped down" version of the Tsunami model of decoders made by Soundtraxx. I can't offer any comment on them because I have no experience. Maybe the tech that my friend was talking about meant individual, full-capability, Tsunami's sold to individuals directly by Sountraxx or by authorized dealers. I wonder if the issue is with the installation. It happens, I am sure. -Crandell
Ah, I now see where you are coming from. Yes, the Bachmann sound decoders are a "stripped down" version of the Tsunami model of decoders made by Soundtraxx. I can't offer any comment on them because I have no experience. Maybe the tech that my friend was talking about meant individual, full-capability, Tsunami's sold to individuals directly by Sountraxx or by authorized dealers. I wonder if the issue is with the installation. It happens, I am sure.
-Crandell
Well Crandell I suppose they are a stripped down version just like the Bachmann motor decoders, stripped down Lenz. Like I said I'll replace it with a Tsunami decoder, I really have no regrets.
I only own 2 Athearn Loco's, one with sound and I'm sure MRC decoder, the other is analog. I'm not a fan of Athearn Loco's just from reading the problems associated with the gears and now the sound decoders, and I'm one who doesn't like putting the finishing touch's, handrails, wipiers, horns, brakes and such on myself. Leaves too much room for disaster with my potato spud fingers and bad eyes. My lady friend bought me one for Christmas 3 years ago and I made a big deal out of it, but said to myself, oh no! I run it when she visits.
OP..I didn't mean to hijack or turn your thread into Bachmann/Tsunami/Soundtraxx thread, but I figured it was worth mentioning and still I don't understand if somebody buys a loco with a known problem then wants Athearn to make good on it. My opinion is that it would seem to be business smart to make some kind of trade for faulty decoders but how would they (Athearn) know for sure the decoder didn't come out of another install such as in an Atlas as an example, since you can buy the MRC decoders from a dealer and install yourself. I think then it's a problem and it has to be far too costly. Jim
selector..Bachmann is very misleading in their advertisement and in the ops manual that came with the loco. Here's what it says:
"Bachmann Trains sounds off with an extensive line of DCC Sound-equipped Spectrum® locomotives. Working closely with SoundTraxx®, we’re pleased to offer HO, On30 and Large Scale engines equipped with Tsunami® sound technology".
That's the reason I keep saying Tsunami, but now I know!
selector Rangerover, forgive me, but I don't think you understood my last response to you. Tsunami is not a brand. It is a model. Think Pontiac Grand Am. The Tsunami is a Grand Am, in addition to being a Pontiac (the make). So the folks who make Tsunami decoders, Soundtraxx, also made a model called the DSD100LC. Your first post describes quite plainly to me that your beef is with the Soundtraxx DSD100LC....not the Tsunami...a whole nuther cat. -Crandell
Rangerover, forgive me, but I don't think you understood my last response to you. Tsunami is not a brand. It is a model. Think Pontiac Grand Am. The Tsunami is a Grand Am, in addition to being a Pontiac (the make). So the folks who make Tsunami decoders, Soundtraxx, also made a model called the DSD100LC. Your first post describes quite plainly to me that your beef is with the Soundtraxx DSD100LC....not the Tsunami...a whole nuther cat.
Well I'll be darned, thank you for straightening me out on that. Now I know the difference! I really have no beef, I could send it back to Bachmann, I looked over the operating manual and it is covered for life, but I'm afraid they will just put in another LC decoder and I'd rather put in a better quality sound decoder, and I did run it without a problem for the most part of 3 years. Thanks for being patient with me and explaining the difference! Jim
selector RangeroverNow I have had a problem with a Tsunami sound decoder in a Bachmann Russian Decapod that I bought maybe 5 years ago, just before I retired and it stayed in the box until I retired. It's a decoder they no longer make, LC 100... RR, you are mixing your models. The Tsunami is the name of the newest sound decoder that Soundtraxx marketed starting three years ago..maybe four now, and then only for steamers. The older DSD100LC is among their early offerings, and is an inferior product by comparison. The sounds on the 100 are generic, and that decoder has no BEMF, for examples. My decoder installer had to consult with Soundtraxx recently when he had problems (well, WE had problems...) getting the chuff to stay in synch with a Spectrum J Class driver rotation. According to my friend, the rep he spoke to says they have never had a Tsunami fail. Ever. -Crandell
RangeroverNow I have had a problem with a Tsunami sound decoder in a Bachmann Russian Decapod that I bought maybe 5 years ago, just before I retired and it stayed in the box until I retired. It's a decoder they no longer make, LC 100...
RR, you are mixing your models. The Tsunami is the name of the newest sound decoder that Soundtraxx marketed starting three years ago..maybe four now, and then only for steamers. The older DSD100LC is among their early offerings, and is an inferior product by comparison. The sounds on the 100 are generic, and that decoder has no BEMF, for examples.
My decoder installer had to consult with Soundtraxx recently when he had problems (well, WE had problems...) getting the chuff to stay in synch with a Spectrum J Class driver rotation. According to my friend, the rep he spoke to says they have never had a Tsunami fail. Ever.
My point was I'm not finding fault with nor am I saying I will never buy another Tsunami decoder because I had a problem with one. I didn't know anything about generic or inferior model rail road decoder products when I first started buying them, the merchant put one on the track and I listened to the sounds and I bought it. Apparently Tsunami learned a lesson too along the way and dumped that line of decoders by the way, somebody must have had a problem or else they would still be producing it, so I doubt your statement " According to my friend, the rep he spoke to says they have never had a Tsunami fail. Ever."
Why wouldn't MRC do the same as Tsunami, dump the problem decoder and move on ?
The only problem I have with it is the static, almost like a loose wire, but I can't find the "leak". I may even try adding a capacitator to the speaker wire, like some have. I should have sent the loco back when the problem first started with the static, it's still a Tsunami sound decoder whether sound traxx started marketing them 4 years ago or so doesn't matter one iota to me and yes it's steam of course decopod. I guess I'm the only one who had a problem, maybe I will send the decoder to them and see if they will replace it, good idea, thanks, should be no problem if I'm the first ever.
And like those that have problems with MRC knowing they have a problem, why would anybody keep buying them, they are cheap and I personally don't like the idea of a cheap sound decoder for under $30.00, you get what you pay for. Like I asked, how come the top internet merchants, Tony's trains and Litchfield Station keep selling MRC decoders with all the problems people are having with them. That's all! Hey I'm just learning and inquiring!
tpatrick I don't own an Athearn locomotive, so forgive me for my ignorance, but why can't you buy a Tsunami (or QSI or Lok-Sound for that matter) and just hard wire it in? Is there something different about Athearn locos that makes it more difficult? It's pretty easy on Atlas or P2K, so I can't imagine that it is that different with Athearn. Someone enlighten me, please.
I don't own an Athearn locomotive, so forgive me for my ignorance, but why can't you buy a Tsunami (or QSI or Lok-Sound for that matter) and just hard wire it in? Is there something different about Athearn locos that makes it more difficult? It's pretty easy on Atlas or P2K, so I can't imagine that it is that different with Athearn. Someone enlighten me, please.
I'm sure many people bought a non-sound/non-DCC Genesis engine and added sound and DCC to it themselves, it's an easy installation. The issue is that some folks feel that they paid a lot more for a sound equipped / DCC equipped engine (like double the price of a DC engine) that then came with what they consider an inferior MRC sound decoder in it that was often subject to failures and problems. They feel that Athearn should now either give them a free replacement Tsunami decoder, or at least allow them to buy one from Athearn at a reduced price.
I'm rather new to this hobby, it's all new to me compared to 40 years ago, returned (4+years) after many years of being away during my retirement. The sound, DCC, and the detail of loco's and rolling stock is what brought me back without question. I've read 90 % of the posts on this thread, the poster without paragraphs are the only posts I didn't fully read, I realize it's not his fault, and no pun intended. But with all the problems with MRC decoders and Athearn how come Tony's Trains and Litchfield Station still sell the MRC decoders, they must know about the problems and from reading other threads, blogs, yahoo groups and other forums, at least these 2 establishments are very highly respected and mentioned often, but they still list and sell these MRC decoders.
Were these problems just on one run of these decoders and MRC fixed the problems and maybe now producing a better decoder? The reason I ask is because I decided after much learning on sites like this to upgrade some of my loco's I bought, I upgraded to sound and dcc. I've done 3 so far but I used Tsunami and the Sound Bug.
Truth be told I was scared to death to even take a shell off my loco's until I bought the Digitrax PR 3 and decided what the heck, just do it and now I'm really hooked.
Now I have had a problem with a Tsunami sound decoder in a Bachmann Russian Decapod that I bought maybe 5 years ago, just before I retired and it stayed in the box until I retired. It's a decoder they no longer make, LC 100. I know that LC means low cost. It's not the best quality but it sure is noisy in that it has an enormous amount of static which when I have the sound on and running other loco's, it causes a lot of nonsense with them. If I turn the sound off all is fine. It's the sound decoder that's at fault, no problem with the motor function. I know they, Soundtraxx. no longer makes that particular decoder, it's now LC 101. I purchased another DCC ready decopod by Bachmann but I installed the plug in Tsunami TSU 1000.
I would not expect Tsunami to replace the crappy one LC100, and I do have an Athearn with the MRC decoder, only one, and I don't run it that often, but so far I have had no problem with it, but for the loudness of the sound, so I just turn it off just like the decopod with the LC 100 decoder. I'll no doubt replace that decoder in the Bachmann Decopod, only because I really like the loco. But it's on my dime or LOL $100.
If Athearn were to offer an upgrade kit at a reasonable price, without losing money on the deal, that would be great PR., but they do not OWE anybody anything outside of fulfilling the warranty limits and conditions.
Athearn's Turbine is not being offered with sound or DCC, but if next year they decide to offer Sound Equipped turbines, should they send me a FREE one
It's a shame that some think that something is owed them because a company decided to go another direction. When Athearn sold it's Genesis product everyone who bought it knew it came with an MRC decoder. The decoder worked but wasn't the best butthis was known.
Athearn listened to their customers and decided to switch to Soundtraxx. That's a good thing.
It doesn't mean that they all of a sudden owe anyone an upgrade.
If you bought a 2008 Chevy with a V6 standard and found out that the 2009 was offering a V8 standard would you insist that they upgrade your 2008 to a V8? Answer is obviously no so why even consider that when a company does the right thing and upgrades it's future products that it will upgrade past items?
All that would do is make them broke.
About a month ago I purchased an Athearn SD60i with the old sound decoder. I replaced the decoder with one of the new tsunami drop in replacements. the sound isn't a lot different but the cv options are better. There was nothing wrong with the original decoder, I just wanted the new one with it's options. Athearn owes me nothing because they delivered what they advertised and it's pretty good stuff.
Springfield PA
Capt. Grimack: --You are right about Safari--it and the forum software on this site do not get along. Google Chrome also has the habit of squashing the paragraphs together as well----
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
Capt Grimek,
It is referred to as a "paragraph". They allow you to segregate your thoughts when you communicate in written form. Please embace them in your responses.
Your opinions are valued but hard to read.
selectorSorry, but I am going to side with all those who feel disappointed and used. Athearn deserves full credit for all the good tooling and the variety of products they have marketed. They have kept up, even advanced in many respects over their competitors. But the one fly in the oinment, and it's a stinker, is the MRC decoder. Walthers would have launched a replacement campaign....they have done so with gears and with traction tires on their smaller switchers when they began to get the requests. Athearn, in my opinion, would generate a lot of good will if they would replace the decoders of those who ask for them. Not everyone would. And maybe it could be for a wholesale price, or a bit better even so that everyone comes out okay. But they sold the defective items, and they should warrant them, even to the point of exchange
Wow. Pigs do fly. I actually agree with you on this issue.
I don't expect Athearn to offer any free upgrades for the MRC sound decoders. the MRC quality or lack of it was known by most purchasers after the first one was tested and I myself considered the Challengers and Big Boys worth the money and continued to purchase them with the knowledge the units could not be run without some changes. After the first one that I received, I realized the decoder was not useable and continued to purchase more models knowing I would have to replace the electronics to run the models on a layout. How could I blame Athearn for that decision. I did start an email action to request Athearn to offer the non sound models and they did start that about a year ago.
With this in mind, Athearn might consider offering one replacement to each of us who purchased the Athearn sound models, but even that offer would be very costly.
CZ
Simon, I hope you won't mind me saying this, but I think I would quibble over your self-deprecation. I would never characterize you as foolish, and would not be pleased to see you label yourself that way. In fact, since we have met, I would object strenuously if someone else were to call you foolish.
Instead, and I think this is the genesis (ahem) of the issue, a customer is entitled to some respect and deference in the world of capitalism. If the customer is always right, why are the customers, you included, so irate over the outcomes of so many of your MRC purchases!? Could it be that you were hoodwinked, liberated from some of your money, even if for an attractive price, but in exchange for an execrable item where others offered on the market perform flawlessly? Is it foolish to have to go back to Ford, Panasonic, Electrolux, or Sony, hat in hand, and request that your faulty item be exchanged for one that actually delivers the service that you had intended for yourself when you exchanged money for it? I don't think so. And I don't think it was foolish of people to purchase MRC decoders at the time they did prior to all the nause we read about on forums all across the hobby. Some less than charitable personalities might say anyone who purchased a MRC decoder after 2007 might rank with the foolish, but I would argue that it would be the case, only possibly, if they were also active on forums such as this one where the sirens and alarms sounded.
Sorry, but I am going to side with all those who feel disappointed and used. Athearn deserves full credit for all the good tooling and the variety of products they have marketed. They have kept up, even advanced in many respects over their competitors. But the one fly in the oinment, and it's a stinker, is the MRC decoder. Walthers would have launched a replacement campaign....they have done so with gears and with traction tires on their smaller switchers when they began to get the requests. Athearn, in my opinion, would generate a lot of good will if they would replace the decoders of those who ask for them. Not everyone would. And maybe it could be for a wholesale price, or a bit better even so that everyone comes out okay. But they sold the defective items, and they should warrant them, even to the point of exchange.
Were you foolish to expect more? I don't think so, Simon.
Capt. Grimekmany of us chose Genesis for the excellent detail at the price pont while "gritting our teeth over the MRC decoders,
Capt. I think this sentence says it all. The Genesis price point was good, and part of that surely was due to using lower cost electronics? Had they used Tsunami from the get-go, the likelihood is that the price point would have been higher. If I were in Athearn's shoes I would offer a nice pre-packaged upgrade kit with full instructions to allow existing owners to upgrade should they choose. This should most certainly be charged for and would represent the difference in cost between cheap and nasty MRC sound and high quality Tsunami sound.
Personally, I am not invested in this, because I refused to purchase a loco with MRC sound pre-installed. As of right now, I have one surviving MRC decoder on my layout. The others I foolishly purchased and installed are now in a landfill somewhere.
Simon Modelling CB&Q and Wabash See my slowly evolving layout on my picturetrail site http://www.picturetrail.com/simontrains and our videos at http://www.youtube.com/user/MrCrispybake?feature=mhum
Nice memo, and certainly realistic in today's business world. Key in your memo is selling units knowing that there would be problems, instead of holding up for a new supplier. I have a hard time believing anyone at Athearn did any heavy duty testing of the product.
I bought one early Genesis diesel with sound that didn't, I stripped out the sound and made it mute but operational. I really don't get my jollies from sound diesels anyway, but about 1 out of every 10 diesels on my layout have sound.
So, hearing, reading some early negative comments about the MRC/Athearn shortcomings, I simply bought the units without sound and installed my own decoders. But I certainly wasn't dumb enough to just keep buying the faulty ones.
Bob
Then let's look closely at this.Again the MRC sound decoder works well in the DC mode..The problem was with DCC usage..Shouldn't MRC replace the decoders? After all MRC says they work..I know a guy that uses 'em with no problems-he just doesn't fool with the CV settings.Others rue the the day they bought the MRC decoders...Guys that use the MRC Sound decoders with DC has no problems.
Then this type of review from a leading and well trusted DCC dealer doesn't help the "freebie" replacement folk..
http://www.tonystrains.com/technews/mrc-snd-review.htm
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
BRAKIEThen the few dishonest folk would claim they own a Genesis in order to get a free DCC/Sound decoder.
That was one of the reasons why Walthers quit giving out free P2K wheelsets.
I don't think free would really happen, it would cost Athearn alot even if the MRC decoders were sold for parts. If anything, maybe some fee associated with an upgrade to a Tsunami on a returned unit with MRC. That way, it'd be impossible for someone to lie about it to get free sound decoders; since they'd have to send in the unit for the swap. If the owner doesn't want to pay the upgrade fee, they would probably get a working MRC in it.
At least if Athearn does do an SD40-2 in the genesis line, it'll have Tsunami instead of MRC (needs an acronym based on the fact it's crap)
Vincent
Wants: 1. high-quality, sound equipped, SD40-2s, C636s, C30-7s, and F-units in BN. As for ones that don't cost an arm and a leg, that's out of the question....
2. An end to the limited-production and other crap that makes models harder to get and more expensive.
I agree with TexasZephyr and sparkyjay31. Athearn should not be obligated to hand out Tsunami decoders at less than their cost. However should they decide to do so then it would only be fair to include Roundhouse brand products.
don7 When it was announced that the Genesis 4-6-2`s were being re-released under the Roundhouse brand name some of the owners of these earlier Genesis models immediately requested a trade in program. That idea fell on deaf ears, I would imagine the same for an exchange program for the MRC sound units.
When it was announced that the Genesis 4-6-2`s were being re-released under the Roundhouse brand name some of the owners of these earlier Genesis models immediately requested a trade in program. That idea fell on deaf ears, I would imagine the same for an exchange program for the MRC sound units.
I agree..I think its wrong to even think of a free upgrade...
That would cost Athearn thousands of dollars.
Then the few dishonest folk would claim they own a Genesis in order to get a free DCC/Sound decoder.
Recall that the MRC sound works quite well in the DC mode but,not in the DCC mode..