selector To add a bit more grit to the discussion, the term "bang for the buck" has different meanings for different people, at least in functional terms. While people tended to work somewhat close to home, say 15-20 minutes 50-60 years ago, and days were busy with other things, but not the "compelling" things that seem to take up our time today, building kits is a luxury of time.
To add a bit more grit to the discussion, the term "bang for the buck" has different meanings for different people, at least in functional terms. While people tended to work somewhat close to home, say 15-20 minutes 50-60 years ago, and days were busy with other things, but not the "compelling" things that seem to take up our time today, building kits is a luxury of time.
And with some people losing their jobs that may be a way of occupying said available time. I'm seeing this turning into a hobby that will have 2 streams--one will be the RTR--I got $$$ to burn/ deep pockets---stream. The radical other will be the guys/gals--I know 2 that are into scratchbuilding big time---who will scratchbuild to their hearts content---
Oh BTW--There are a few 2 income families who CHOOSE to kit/scratchbuild their locos--and they do not think that adding their "labour costs" in a hobby makes any difference to them---they still save $$$.
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
blownout cylinder...There are a few 2 income families who CHOOSE to kit/scratchbuild their locos...
Aye, there's the rub. Too few, if Bowser has anything to say about it.
-Crandell
Yes, there are an increasing number of modelers who are wanting the finish line and not the journey. Working on models is relaxing to me and I enjoy it. A 30 minute trip to the train room often ends with the wife coming down saying she is going to bed. So early? It's been 4-5 hours. My problem is not that I'm in a hurry to get it done, but then I get excited to see whatever it is I'm working on,.....how it comes out. I need to slow down. And I usually catch myself. But that's me. Many would buy a RR already finished if they could put one in the trunk. And there is nothing wrong with going to whatever level you choose to have a piece of the hobby. But at what point do we go from building a MRR to buying a MRR. Then it goes from a hobby to a purchase.With the loss of kit manufacturers, we are already going from building a loco to buying one. Of course I guess that's the prototypical way to do it. (sigh)
Todd
Central Illinoyz
In order to keep my position as Master and Supreme Ruler of the House, I don't argue with my wife.
I'm a small town boy. A product of two people from even smaller towns. I don’t talk on topic….. I just talk.
Todd; I think we're getting to that point already----Fully set up RTR layouts that you just pop the plug in and hey ho off you go--------BTW ----forget about RTR locos bought seperately---there'll be 4 locos with each set.--------------knock down legs and all-----
Might as well just buy the video game------------------------------
Andre,There's around 2000 current members of the New Haven Railroad Historical & Technical Association, and probably around 4500 or so folks interested enough to join in the last 48 years of the NHRHTA (my membership number is in the 3600's, and that was from 1990). Many have passed on or quit, of course, and there's a lot of fans that never joined the NHRHTA, so I dunno...maybe 5000 actual NH fans nationwide? Just a WAG. The NH's been dead for 40 years now, but nothing has really replaced it in the hearts and minds of most area railfans, which includes MA, CT, RI, and parts of NY.
There are, however, a significant portion of railfans around here that aren't NH fans. At my club, we have around 65 members. I think there's only 10 of us in the club that actually buy NH stuff. There is a lot of interest in roads like WM, PRR, CSX, UP, BAR, MEC, Amtrak, MBTA, BNSF, B&M, Chessie, B&O, etc. There's a real need in some folks to do something different, and we NH fans at the club have most of the NH's roster (or at least what's available).
Getting back to the point of "Why is there a NZ steam kit manufacturer in S scale and no US steam kit manufacturer in HO scale?" and using the NH as an example: The NH's major steam classes have been done in brass...mostly twice. NJ/Custom Brass released the I-4 (4-6-2), R-3 (4-8-2), I-5 (4-6-4), and L-1 (2-10-2) in the 1970's, along with Empire Midland's G-4 (4-6-0). Key imported an R-1 (4-8-2) in the 1980's, and NERS released a K-1 (2-6-0) around the same time. In the 1990's, W&R imported an I-5 and a Y-3 (0-8-0). In the 2000's, PSC has released an I-4, I-5, R-3, L-1, and coming soon is a Y-4 (0-8-0), while Overland imported a T-2 (0-6-0), Crown Custom imported an I-3 (4-6-2), Bachmann released an R-1 in plastic, LLP2K released a Y-3 in plastic, and BLI released an I-5 in brass and in "hybrid" form.
There isn't much for NH steam that hasn't been done in RTR at least once (I can think of maybe half a dozen before one gets into the really oddball stuff like Forneys and Bogeys, etc.). Can you say the same for NZ steam?
My point, and I hope I'm being clear, is that the reason why there's a NZ steam kit manufacturer in S-scale and there isn't an HO steam kit manufacturer in the USA (or at least I assume there isn't) is that there are many RTR versions available of the USA prototypes and there are few if any RTR versions of NZ prototypes.
I think that most people want RTR, and only build kits if they have to. Now before anyone flys off the handle at me, I know there are a lot of people that build kits because they like to. I just happen to think that they are vastly outnumbered by those that don't like to build kits. The fringe hobbyist will always outnumber the "hardcore" hobbyist, no matter the hobby. And fringe model railroaders want to buy RTR.
Paul A. Cutler III*******************Weather Or No Go New Haven*******************
That K4 picture comparison, The Boswer lacks what I feel is the single most tell tail detail - NO BRAKE SHOES -and if you have ever built any die cast kits, you know how hard it is to add that detail.
Why is that a showstopper? Precision Scale makes brake hangers in plastic. It's just a matter of mounting. If you can build the kit (especially the deluxe kit), you can add the detail. The brake hangers from PSC would add less than $5.00 to the kit cost.
Andre
Another consideration in the RTR v. kit argument is that people have a lot more interests than they used to. Model railroading time competes not only with work and household duties, but other activites that weren't prelevant years ago. I'm not just talking about sitting on your butt and typing on the internet either. Lots of people and their families lead very active lives. Being able to take an RTR engine out of a box and put it on the track might make the difference between being in the hobby at all or not.
And I have plenty of those PSC brake shoes on hand for those occasions. My main point was that this is just one more aspect of the Bowser product that is WAY behind the times. And by the time I buy all these extra parts, re-engineer the kit to install them, etc, I will have a large investment of time and money.
If my goal is the enjoyment of building my own loco, that's great, goal met!
If my goal is to populate a medium sized or large model layout and conduct operating sessions, also building structures, scenery, rolling stock, control systems, signal systems, etc, goal not realized with the available resources.
I mastered that first goal several decades ago, I now am focused on the second goal.
Free market enterprise responds to the desired goals of the majority, with little or no regard for the minorty. Should we have government subsidized kit manufacturers to solve this moral dilemma, I hope not.
I think the consumers have voted on which goal is more popular. I don't think Masterpiece Theater should be subsidized, neither should locomotive kits few people actually want.
Poll question, how many of you lamenting this loss have built a Bowser kit in the last 5 years?
Sheldon
I re-entered model railroading about 9 months ago. I am sorry to hear about Bowser but it seems to me that the survival of the hobby is more in the direction of RTR, simply because having equipment that is usable right away allows more people to try the hobby and as a result hook more people into the hobby. I personally enjoy the modeling aspect and I am having a lot of fun building, modifying, etc. But I've seen a lot of dad's with very young kids who visit my local club looking for help getting into the hobby. There should be a model railroader's college (online, of course) which people could get involved with. So far, the MR forums are the closest thing to that I've found - and I'm grateful!
Selector,
While thoughtful, I think many of your comments about peoples life styles are too broad to be valid. None of what you discribe fits me, or most of the modelers I know personally, or most in our local modeling group.
I work from home, no commute.
Don't even own a laptop.
Semi retired, only work about 25 hours a week.
My kids are grown, OK, I do baby sit the grand children a little.
My interests are purposely narrow, I have a saying "I was well rounded until I learned what I really liked".
Money for the hobby is not really and issue, it might have been 25 years ago, but not now.
I'm really good at ignoring that which does not interest me and focusing on the task at hand.
I've built lots of this stuff in 40 years - now I want to RUN them.
BUT, I have not built any locomotive kits in many years, and have rejected all such current offerings as not good values and/or not up to the detail and performance standards I want, regardless of price.
Autobus PrimeThe upper model is a Bowser K4, built from the ~$150.00 deluxe kit. The lower model is a BLI K4, imported from China, costing $300. Not too different, are they? Of course there are some variations in pipe-routing and so forth, all of which can be easily accomodated to any prototype, if you're the kit builder. And where's those alleged hamburger rivets somebody mentioned? I'll gladly pay him Tuesday to point them out today.
The lower model is a BLI K4, imported from China, costing $300.
Not too different, are they? Of course there are some variations in pipe-routing and so forth, all of which can be easily accomodated to any prototype, if you're the kit builder. And where's those alleged hamburger rivets somebody mentioned? I'll gladly pay him Tuesday to point them out today.
You happened to choose the image of the K4, which is one of the models which has had the boiler/cab updated, so the rivets aren't so large. The inadequacies compared to the BLI? Missing detail on the cylinders, cab roof missing any relief, missing seams/rivets from the boiler jacket, wheels either too small or too widely spaced, huge gaping chasm under the cab where the frame should be, wrong tender (the 13,000 gallon tender that Bowser produce isn't an accurate representation of any PRR tender - the closest ones are the two built for the K5 class - but anyway, it's totally inappropriate behind the H10 and E6).
OK - Hamburger rivets - look here: http://bowser-trains.com/holocos/B-6/B6.htm - check out the tender! (also, I note that the tender images have been touched up to hide the casting flaws on the top of the tank that are visible in one picture). Also check out the huge screws visible on the cab back!
If you can live with these flaws, or want to spend the time and money to resolve them, fine - I just want to point out why these kits don't sit well next to the latest generation RTR.
To those who are looking at producing kits, I suggest that die casting is a process of the past for limited run models such as these - look at etched brass, and look at resin casting. I hope that a market CAN be established here for some high quality modern kits. I think there are modelers out there who WOULD be interested in a high quality kit (and a modern kit requires soldering, etc - they aren't screw together!), but approach it with your eyes wide open that a kit has to be RIGHT, and you can expect to sell maybe 50-100 of a loco.
The more cogent question is: "How many of you lamenting this loss model the Pennsy and have built a Bowser engine in the last 5 years"? That was the core of their steam kit business and the rest of us had to take it or leave it. Obviously we left it.
You can't vote with your wallet on something that isn't in the market place and never was. Nobody's ever offered a kit version of a Santa Fe 3400 class Pacific, a New Haven I-4, a B&M P-4b, a B&O P-7 and/or an NYC K-5 to name a few. Bowser could have. The K4 chassis could have been used as a starting point for any or all of those. Instead of trying to expand its customer base with more variety using already available components as a base from which to expand, Bowser contented itself (insofar as steam locomotives go) with doing the same thing year after year after year (the Henry Ford business model). Bowser could also have chosen to go into RTR using what they had as a starting point, at least a mechanism.
It really isn't so much a case of kit vs. RTR as it is a case of understanding that you can expand on a base. As a minor example, take the Spectrum Russian Decapod. Bachmann designed it so that they could do multiple prototypes using same basic engine. The underlying mechanism (the core of the beast) is the same. All else is cosmetics. Spectrum could just as easily take the USRA light 4-8-2 and do any of the prototypes that owned originals or copies without having to re-engineer the whole thing. That same chassis could be the base for any number of prototype 4-8-2's that used 69-70" drivers. They did something along those lines with the Heavy when they made the C&O J-2.
I'm still kinda surprised that no manufacturer (kit or RTR ) has yet tried to build on the similarities among various locomotive classes. Starting with the same chassis used under the Spectrum N&W class J, you could make an NC&StL J-3, a Cotton Belt L-1 and SP GS-7/8, a TP&W H-10, a Western Maryland J-1, a Wabash O-1, a Reading T-1, an NDeM QR-52, a D&RGW M-64 and Rock Island R-67's of number series 5000-5067. On some you'd need Box-Pok drivers and spoked on others. Why re-invent the wheel every time you offer a new product?
andrechapelonPoll question, how many of you lamenting this loss have built a Bowser kit in the last 5 years?
I don't think I have built ANY kits in the last five years, eventhough I have piles of hundreds of them waiting to do. Just no time.
My entire loco roster is RTR with the exception of a few Athearns that needed some of the finish detail installed. My choice is not based on time vs.cost but on the quality of the finished product. The stuff I see coming out today is so outstanding in appearance that I know there is no way I could achieve that with my skills. Even if I could build a kit that ran as well as he RTR offerings, it would never look as good. Maybe with time those skills might improve but how much money and time would I throw away learning how to build something as good as what I can take out of the box today. I'm sorry, but building the components for my railroad just doesn't give me a lot of satisfaction. Putting those components together into a unique and realistic scene does, and it doesn't matter one bit to me whether I build the components are they come prebuilt. I consider myself a layout builder not a model builder. I do some kit building as a necessary part of the layout building process, but when somebody offers me something prebuilt that looks good and belongs on my railroad, they will get my money in return. Companies that offer me hours of frustration for a lower quality result won't.
Andre,
I agree with much of what you have said, and often wondered if or when Bowser or other might do as you suggest. But they haven't.
Lots of stuff needs to made in form or another, but we seem stuck we repeats of K4's, GS4's, Big Boys, Challengers, USRA Mikes, N&W J class, etc, etc.
Ponit remains, no one has, and the loss of Bowser kits still is not much of a loss.
jecorbett My entire loco roster is RTR with the exception of a few Athearns that needed some of the finish detail installed. My choice is not based on time vs.cost but on the quality of the finished product. The stuff I see coming out today is so outstanding in appearance that I know there is no way I could achieve that with my skills. Even if I could build a kit that ran as well as he RTR offerings, it would never look as good. Maybe with time those skills might improve but how much money and time would I throw away learning how to build something as good as what I can take out of the box today. I'm sorry, but building the components for my railroad just doesn't give me a lot of satisfaction. Putting those components together into a unique and realistic scene does, and it doesn't matter one bit to me whether I build the components are they come prebuilt. I consider myself a layout builder not a model builder. I do some kit building as a necessary part of the layout building process, but when somebody offers me something prebuilt that looks good and belongs on my railroad, they will get my money in return. Companies that offer me hours of frustration for a lower quality result won't.
j:
Have you tried?
I failed to build my first loco kit - a Mantua 2-6-2 - out of impatience. I was in too much of a hurry, and I broke and lost a few parts. I was able to salvage a lot of it to repair other Mantuas later, so in the end the money loss wasn't huge...HOWEVER...the patience I learned from this failure, and various others, has saved me untold dollars and hours in lost time and broken components, and in all sorts of areas - car repairs, home repairs, model building. I learned to read instructions, to think before acting, to work over a surface, not in the air, to put parts on a tray, and above all to be careful, because any mechanism will "tell" you how it goes together, if only you take time to let it.
I'm not saying this because I'm an elitist snob or anything, but because I wish everybody could have this kind of valuable training. A lot of people are quicker learners than I was, that's for sure. It doesn't have to be metal loco kits - a lot of it was plastic auto kits, in my case. I ruined a bunch of those!
Honestly, loco kits were kid stuff once - because kids built them! And they figured it out in time, and they developed useful skills. Today's youth still has that capacity for manual skill - but are we developing it? With every loss like this, it gets tougher.
Sheldon, I wouldn't dispute for a second that what you assert about yourself and your current group of friends is exactly the case. However, there is an inherent restriction of range in your sample. My comment was related to a general buying population of toy trains, and surely those whom you describe in your post don't comprise the entire market. Groups aligned largely due to age, career status, financial security, and common interests have already self-selected, and that is why you find the homogeneity to which you relate. However, there are many modelers/hobbyists from all walks of life and with a wide range of means in talent, time, money, and interest here. If you were to take a poll of all people in the hobby (not just those active on this forum) I think you'd find very few people have more than a passing interest in building a steamer from a kit, at least to the extent that they have done so...even once.
Therefore, while my generalizations (agreed) don't pertain to your own case, it doesn't mean that they don't accurately describe the phenomena that have led to this discussion.
Texas Zepher andrechapelonPoll question, how many of you lamenting this loss have built a Bowser kit in the last 5 years?I have not, but I have always wanted to. It was(is) on my bucket list. I don't think I have built ANY kits in the last five years, eventhough I have piles of hundreds of them waiting to do. Just no time.
I'll bite on the question ---yes----and bought 8---still have two to do.---And I've done them up to kind of fit the era that my shortline might have run them if the dang thing existed---BTW--I've also got enough bits/pieces flapping around between here and storage for at least 60 more steam/diesels.
That and investigating cnc milling machine I now have an eye on---------
jecorbettMy entire loco roster is RTR with the exception of a few Athearns that needed some of the finish detail installed. My choice is not based on time vs.cost but on the quality of the finished product. The stuff I see coming out today is so outstanding in appearance that I know there is no way I could achieve that with my skills. Even if I could build a kit that ran as well as he RTR offerings, it would never look as good
It is interesting that we are now faced with the idea that DIY is no where near as good as done by 'experts'.See this everywhere. I know a contractor here in town that quite bluntly told me that he was waiting for the day when you'd need proper certification to do anything because ---well---you know that the average J.Plebe doesn't know how to do this---that---or anything else for that matter. Because---well--it does not look as good as a professional does it.
Comparison----it is all about comparison by this point---I can't do my locos as well as it looks on so and so's MR ad so I'll but it RTR. And this was supposed to be based on what? Someone else's esthetic criteria? I'm almost suspecting that marketing men have so distorted the market that--in a way ----we've become dupped into thinking that since we can't build it as good as those ads show the latest product RIGHT NOW that we'll give up and buy RTR now
That may be what was frequently referred to back in the day when I went to university as a dumbing down process. BTW a lot of social critics---Christopher Lasch in particular---said that this kind of 'consumerism' would create a lot of issues down the line. I think we're seeing that-----
ndbprrYes Bowser is getting out of the kit business mainly because they haven't sold ONE this year. BUT everything is being sold to another individual who intends to produce them amd upgrade the drives. There hae been an ongoing discussion in this regard on the PRR boards for about one week now.
Yes Bowser is getting out of the kit business mainly because they haven't sold ONE this year. BUT everything is being sold to another individual who intends to produce them amd upgrade the drives. There hae been an ongoing discussion in this regard on the PRR boards for about one week now.
will you post a link to these forums?
This is curious news, the posts here speak doom and gloom, and the kits being old tech compared to today. One of the best things about a kit is you can mod it around to suit your prototype, especially since we have a gloat of one specific models being sold..(how much of a big boy can you do...)
selector Sheldon, I wouldn't dispute for a second that what you assert about yourself and your current group of friends is exactly the case. However, there is an inherent restriction of range in your sample. My comment was related to a general buying population of toy trains, and surely those whom you describe in your post don't comprise the entire market. Groups aligned largely due to age, career status, financial security, and common interests have already self-selected, and that is why you find the homogeneity to which you relate. However, there are many modelers/hobbyists from all walks of life and with a wide range of means in talent, time, money, and interest here. If you were to take a poll of all people in the hobby (not just those active on this forum) I think you'd find very few people have more than a passing interest in building a steamer from a kit, at least to the extent that they have done so...even once.
I agree completely, I'm just still inclined to think kits have died out because they no longer represent a good value in terms of time and/or money, not because of the changes in our lifestyles.
I built kits in the 60's because that was the only choice other than brass (already explained my view about that as well) or really bad over priced plastic from Italy.
In the 80's I decided a diesel railroad would be better, than the 90's arrived!
And, Andre might be right, if someone built a good kit of the right loco, I might be building a bunch of them. Like a good model of a Pacific that's not a K4?
ATLANTIC CENTRALI agree completely, I'm just still inclined to think kits have died out because they no longer represent a good value in terms of time and/or money, not because of the changes in our lifestyles
Esscooose pliss---since when is it that we now add labour costs to a hobby? This mindset ---TIME=MONEY is at root a cultural value that some of us hold as true. In a culture that actually sells this idea in professional planning and such. The reason that they died out is precisely because we now think in terms of time=money.
There are other value systems---we don't have to swallow the time=money trap!!
The reason I don't do engine kits is because I get more enjoyment out of running my engines than I do building them. I have model trains because I simply can't own a real steam engine myself. The new RTR has been great for me. It actually got me to switch from O to HO.
The detail and sound is as close as I can get to owning a realy Pennsy K4 or T1.
Eric
Autobus Prime j: Have you tried?
No, and I don't have any desire to. I see little upside and a whole lot of downside. I know what I'm getting when I buy a factory painted, BLI, P2K, Marklin, Genesis, or even a Spectrum. A good runner that looks outstanding and now has sound. Even if I did things perfectly the first time, which there is near zero chance of happening, the best I could hope for is something as good and almost certainly wouldn't even be close. I would have a piece that I wouldn't want on my layout which means I would have thrown away my money on it, not to mention the time I would have spent that I could have better spent on other facets of layout building that I can't buy in a box, such as scenery or wiring. And for what. To try and save a few bucks. This seems penny wise and pound foolish. As for the satisfaction factor, there are plenty of other facets of the hobby that bring me that. I don't need to get it from doing something that somebody else has already done a lot better than I ever could.
I look at locomotive building the same way I look and handlaying track. These were once intergral parts of the hobby but now are no longer necessary. For those who still want to do it, that's wonderful but it isn't for me. I would rather spend my time on things I do well and brings me satisfaction.
Barry,
First, we have established that kit building is not cheaper than RTR.
Second, regardless of any one individuals skills, or available time, many would rather persue other aspects of the hobby.
For me personally the hobby is the WHOLE package, building, designing, developing the "story" of the railroad, creating the minature scene and operating. It is not complete without some balance of all. I only have so much time, and so much money, which I balance between all these different aspects of my goal.
So yes, some projects are not seen as a good investment toward the balanced goal, all your lofty social views aside.
In my view, the world has already gone to @@@@ in a hand basket, I just want to enjoy my trains.
blownout cylinderThere are other value systems---we don't have to swallow the time=money trap!!
This prompts a discussion not approperate here. I have done both in my life, sold my knowledge AND made things with my hands - both are an honest days work. And honest work is something this culture needs a return to. But since so much is stollen by those in power, why should we work? Or build a locomotive kit?
http://www.railstop.com/History/Bowser/BowserHistory.asp
found this article on Bowser, thru a series of "economics" He lost ownership to the business he started.
I applaud the Bowser name being stuck on them, and the English folks in PA did good perking the line up.
Bill Bowser is apparently still alive as this article mentions he is working on a new motor, perhaps this "buying" of the Steam kit line is coming from him? No clue, but is very curious.
jecorbett Autobus Prime j: Have you tried? No, and I don't have any desire to. I see little upside and a whole lot of downside. I know what I'm getting when I buy a factory painted, BLI, P2K, Marklin, Genesis, or even a Spectrum. A good runner that looks outstanding and now has sound. Even if I did things perfectly the first time, which there is near zero chance of happening, the best I could hope for is something as good and almost certainly wouldn't even be close. I would have a piece that I wouldn't want on my layout which means I would have thrown away my money on it, not to mention the time I would have spent that I could have better spent on other facets of layout building that I can't buy in a box, such as scenery or wiring. And for what. To try and save a few bucks. This seems penny wise and pound foolish. As for the satisfaction factor, there are plenty of other facets of the hobby that bring me that. I don't need to get it from doing something that somebody else has already done a lot better than I ever could. I look at locomotive building the same way I look and handlaying track. These were once intergral parts of the hobby but now are no longer necessary. For those who still want to do it, that's wonderful but it isn't for me. I would rather spend my time on things I do well and brings me satisfaction.
And that's it in a nutshell, isn't it? The hobby interstate rolls people right where they wanted to go. Sure, it's quick and popular and safe. Minimal risk. But where's the reward?
Don't you want to drive up that dangerous mountain road, just to see the view?
Maybe you'll bang up the car a little bit. Maybe you'll get lost. Cars can be fixed, and you'll find your way back. Maybe you'll lose a bit of time and money if you stray from the RTR interstate. Tomorrow is another day, and more money can be earned. But if you persist, you will eventually succeed, and that success is something you'll always remember.
Is it necessary to climb mountains, or run marathons, or learn the piano? No, but people who take on those challenges find that they thrive on them.
A limit is made to be pushed!
ATLANTIC CENTRAL Andre, I agree with much of what you have said, and often wondered if or when Bowser or other might do as you suggest. But they haven't. Lots of stuff needs to made in form or another, but we seem stuck we repeats of K4's, GS4's, Big Boys, Challengers, USRA Mikes, N&W J class, etc, etc. Ponit remains, no one has, and the loss of Bowser kits still is not much of a loss. Sheldon
The loss of the kits means the loss of components that can be used elsewhere. That's the real loss. You may not regret it, but I certainly do.
This thread is fascinating. Near as I can tell, Bowser was the last US manfacturer of locomotive kits that were actually made in the US. The fact they are getting out of the locomotive kit business is merely the end of the trend, not the start of it. In addition to Roundhouse and Mantua, anyone remember Locomotive Workshop, All-Nation, Arbour, Rex, etc? You can argue about modernization, new tooling needs, retirements, etc., but in the end none of these found it profitable enough to continue or sell to someone else who would and did. One line failing may be an aberration or poor business judgement, but all of them? That says no market to me.
Personally, I liked the Bowser K4 pacific, the MDC boxcab diesel (in fact I got one of the early ones and had to buy the upgrade kit to add the flywheel and reduced gearing), etc. that I built. But the hobby time I have now is more limited and I spend it building the layout so I can run trains. I have a stash of locomotive kits - 3 standard gauge Ma&Pa 2-8-0's from BTS in S, a REX 2-6-0 in S, 4 Roundhouse HOn3 kits to bash into Sn2. But none of these will be built before I retire. I also have many rolling stock kits, structure kits etc. I am stockpiling because of limited runs, discontinued lines, etc. After retirement (or at least semi retirement) and the building of the "BIG" one I'll get back to kit building, maybe a little scratchbuilding. But for now, I buy RTR wherever I can.
Enjoy
Paul
So what do you do when you want a locomotive that not only hasn't been made, but in all probability, won't be made? The component parts that went into the Bowser kits are useful for locomotives other than what Bowser manufactured as kits. There's a whole potload of Pacifics that could be built (partially scratchbuilt I grant you) using the K4 chassis as the starting point.
How do you know you wouldn't end up being as successful as the next guy in building a locomotive? Even if you make a mistake the first time, it doesn't mean the end of the world. Mistakes can be fixed. A barebones locomotive can be superdetailed later when you've acquired the skill. Without trying, you'll never know.
Up until a couple of years ago, I had never ripped old windows out of a house and installed new ones. The first one was a nerve-wracking project. The second was a lot easier and I have the satisfaction of knowing that I know enough to where I don't have to pay someone else to do it for me. More than money, though, is the knowledge that I can do it successfully.