I have just received an e-mail from Bowser indicating that they have discontinued the manufacture of their steam locomotive line. According to the mailing, diesel locomotive, rolling stock, trolley and other HO items production will continue. They also indicate that replacement parts for their steamers is limited to present stock on hand and no further production of these items will be forthcoming.
Talk about a shock...
CNJ831
Wow, that really is bad news. Bowser was the only company I know of that was still making steam locomotive kits. The lack of customers must have had something to do with their decision. Practically everyone today wants to buy everything in fully assembled form and then call themselves "modelers."
can we blame it on the chinese? maybe walthers?
grizlump
CNJ831They also indicate that replacement parts for their steamers is limited to present stock on hand and no further production of these items will be forthcoming.
Are the molds--at least I THINK they'd have them--going to be sold off? If so then better be getting them. I don't like the sounds of this
Any argument carried far enough will end up in Semantics--Hartz's law of rhetoric Emerald. Leemer and Southern The route of the Sceptre Express Barry
I just started my blog site...more stuff to come...
http://modeltrainswithmusic.blogspot.ca/
grizlump9 can we blame it on the chinese? maybe walthers? grizlump
How about people who want cheap trains and ready to run at that?
There's over 300 million people in this country and we're now losing the last locomotive kit manufacturer. At the same time, New Zealand, which has less than half the population of Los Angeles COUNTY in California, is the home of some rather nice kits that ran in places other than New Zealand.
http://www.railmaster.co.nz/railway/loco.htm
Not only that, but you can also get kits for New Zealand prototype steam locomotives.
http://www.ironhorsehobbies.co.nz/index.php?currency=USD&cPath=31_32
Incidentally, the prices shown are in US dollars. The price in New Zealand dollars is double. We have a good exchange rate.
Oh yeah. New Zealand's steam locomotives were built to a maximum height of 11 1/2 feet running on 42" gauge. An Sn3 1/2 NZGR steam locomotive will actually be about the same physical size as its North American standard gauge counterpart.
Andre
I built a fair number of Mantua and Boswer kits over the years, many served well. Today I buy ready to run, not because I don't want to build kits, but because the performance is the same or better, the price is a the same or lower AND (this is the big reason) the detail is better.
By the time you buy a bowser kit (with or without the super details), add some Cal Scale, you have a lot invested and still don't reach the appearance of a Spectrum, Proto or BLI loco.
So it is about value. They are great locos, just not the total value they once where. And while many of us still build a lot of stuff, much growth in the hobby is among those who are more RTR minded.
I still do a fair amount of extra detailing, customizing, kit basing etc. But instead of starting with a kit, I start with a spectrum this or a BLI that. Few if any of my fleet 40+ steam locos are stock, the way they came, but all of the current fleet started as ready to run. And only two are brass.
One more thought about Bowser, most of the line is PRR prototypes, and many that are not are very old outdated models with even less detail than their best pieces. I know a lot of people model PRR, but more don't than do.
Sheldon
I am of the opinion that, as lamentable as this announcement is, the fact is that we, the consumer, are what drives such news. If Bowser can't sell because we won't buy, what does the reactive and proactive business do? They adapt or go under.
Also, my opinion, blaming the Chinese is like blaming the drug pusher for our habits. Pooh widdo meee, I can't hewp but buy dos nasty Chinees engines....oh, hewp meee, hewp meeee!!!! Let's get real, boys and men (and any ladies reading), we in N. America thump our chests about freedoms, self-determination and rights. And by golly, we sure as heck exercise 'em....all the way to (name the toy train manufacturer of choice) for our latest "fix".
Point the finger at thyself for a change.
-Crandell
It's those darn modern modelers with their modern powered boxcars!!!
Seriously, sad news, sorry to hear.
"The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination."-Albert Einstein
http://gearedsteam.blogspot.com/
I think that's the key - Bowser loco kits were state of the art 30-40 years ago. I spent some time modeling in British 4mm finescale, and the kits available are simply beautiful - the good ones build up accurately, with a lot of detail, and look better than RTR (and the best ones are absolute gems - when well built they exceed the quality of even the best brass). I'd LOVE to be able to buy an accurate, modern kit for some of the same prototypes as Bowser. See: http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/4F.htm for an example of what I see as "state of the art". It's a combination of photo etched components combined with a urethane resin firebox/boiler assembly with lost wax brass and whitemetal detail components.
I know there are a lot of people who still build models - see the plethora of resin kit manufacturers out there - however, I think a high percentage of these folks are prototype modelers, and locos with big fat screws sticking out, hamburger sized rivets and compromises throughout aren't worth it for these modelers - especially when a detailed Bowser that won't look as good as the BLI loco sat next to it which cost the same amount!
Up to a point, I agree with you, Crandell. However, the manufacturers of steam locomotive kits (Mantua and Varney come to mind) never made any real attempt to update their tooling and their designs when faced with real competition. When Mantua went out of business around 2001, they were selling stuff that was using 50 year old tooling to make 50's era models they were trying to sell in a 21st Century market. As for Bowser, even with the improvementsmade to the old Penn Line and early Bowser models by the latter day owners, Bowser is still making 50's era kits. Worse yet, most of their models are of Pennsy prototype. The Pennsy is a popular road, but not everyone's an SPF.
In order to sell a product, you have to entice people to buy it. Not long ago, I went through and made a list of every Southern Pacific non-articulated class that could be made using a Bowser chassis. The list surprised even me. A-3 and A-6 4-4-2's (E-6 chassis), P-1, 3, 4, 5, 6 (K4 chassis). P-7, 8, 9, 10, 12(ex EP&SW) could have been done with the USRA 4-6-2 chassis. The P-11 (also ex EP&SW) could have been done with the NYC K-11 chassis. Classes F-1, 3, 4, 5 2-10-2's could have been done using the "USRA" 2-10-2 chassis. The 4-8-4 chassis could have been used to do the Cotton Belt L-1's that eventually became SP classes GS-7/8. The Pennsy M-1 chassis could be used to do SP's 4-8-2's, including the ex EP&SW MT-2's. SP 4-6-0 classes T-23, 28, 31, 32 could have been done with the Pennsy G-5 or "Casey Jones" chassis. Every class of SP Mikado could have been done including the 57" driver MK-2 and MK-4 (Bowser got around to making 56" drivers for the Pennsy B-6)
The Bowser "USRA's" all had some real problems. The "USRA" light Pacific actually used the boiler designed for the USRA light Mike which meant the boiler was oversized. The "USRA" 4-8-2 and 2-10-2 used a boiler that hardly bore any resemblance to anything the USRA actually designed. However, the chassis could have been used to do quite a number of non-USRA and non-Pennsy locos. Following is a partial list:
69/70" Driver 4-8-2's: ATSF, Frisco (1500, 4300, 4400 classes), ( NYC L-1, 2, 3), SBD, Cof G, NYO&W (2 different classes), N&W K-1.
Just about any 63" driver 2-10-2 could have been done with the 2-10-2 chassis.
As for the chassis under the Pennsy engines, the list is endless. The K-4 chassis alone could be used for any Pacific having drivers in the 75-80" range. I wonder what would have happened if Bowser had taken some business risk and put some new boiler/cab combos on those inherited chassis.
The thing that is really disappointing to me is not so much the loss of the kits themselves, but the mechanisms that go with them. No doubt we will be losing all those drive wheels.
I've never built a Bowser kit, but I've seen some of their kits finished into steam locomotives that look as good, if sometimes not better than the current highly detailed plastic RTR steamers. Sure, it took a lot of careful detail work to get them that way, but the result was something that the builder could be very proud of. And more importantly, those well-crafted kits, with careful work, were VERY strong pullers--something that current plastic cannot attain without traction tires.
I'm very sorry to see their steam locomotive line go under. Frankly, I hope someone buys the molds and parts so that those modelers who STILL like to build their own, can have something to work with. As an inveterate kit-basher (yes, even my imported brass locos), I find this news pretty disheartening. Bowser gave you the well-built basics, and it was up to the talent of the individual modeler to make the locomotive what they wanted it to be.
Seems that time and patience in building a steamer is becoming a lost art. Okay, I suppose that I've helped contribute to that by doing my 'bashing' on steamers that have already had the major work (mechanisms) done for me, but I still feel badly for those who prefer to assemble their steamers from the ground up.
It would sure be nice if this thread turned out to be an "April Fool's" message a month early.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
The issue with Bowser dropping out is driven by precisely a market that is at base RTR dominated. I did a not so very good datamining operation just a few minutes ago on a whole raft of sites and found that there has been a steady drop in locomotive kits. Especially of steam based lokes.
Dang it --- I bought a pile of brass pieces from a metals dealer--I might as well get using them--stockpile pieces/bits---
People might pay attention to Yardbird Trains. Dan, the owner deals with a lot of older metal engines including the Bowser. He also has the Yahoo Yardbird trains group. Put the link in your favorites folder.
http://yardbirdtrains.com/index.htm
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
This news sucks.
I left HO so I haven't been in the market for Bowser steam, but I've always liked it and really wish they could have offered a similar PRR steam selection in N. I would love to assemble a pewter locomotive in N; I think the pulling power alone would be worth the effort. The GHQ PRR L1s conversion for the Kato Mike is a challenge and has similar boiler construction to a Bowser kit.
Wow.
The most rewarding thing I've ever done in this hobby besides completing a layout is building steam locomotives from the chassis up. I did it in HO and I do it in N. I guess I can't blame anyone but myself here because I left HO and therefore the market for Bowser PRR steam. I just wish enough other folks would have found it equally rewarding.
Oh, by the way, Bowser steam locomotives are made, from what I understand, right there in Pennsylvania. The Chinese aren't involved.
I'll have to check the Pennsy boards and see if someone else is interested in buying the Bowser tooling. After all, the Pennsy steam kits were started by Penn Line over 50 years ago.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Sad news but on the other hand I was not buying anything from their steam line, so i guess I am partly to blame. The original Bowser (4-8-2 and 4-6-6-4), Penn Line (PRR), and Varney (4-6-0 and 2-8-0 and perhaps Dockside) engines are, as pointed out above, 1950s (maybe late 1940s!) technology. Bowser did a yeoman's job of keeping the detail quality on ancient tooling within plausible modern limits. But obviously there comes a time when folks aren't buying anymore, and the last I looked some of the molds had lost sharpness .....
The saddest news is that they evidently do not intend to keep parts in the line. Armed with their frame, drivers, side rods, valve gear and motor, the basis for a lot of scratch/kitbashing was always right there even if the increasingly crude boiler or tender detail was not being used
Dave Nelson
WAHT!??!1? NONONONONONONONONON0N0!! THIS CAN"T BE HAPPINNING!!
What am I supposed to build if the Bowser kits are gone!?
_________________________________________________________________
We're going to start the great mold hunt-----
This is horrible news, but Andre's right: Bowser hasn't upgraded in decades (their B-6 being the only exception) and frankly, their stuff sucks. Sure it'll PULL, but overall it all looks horrible. I stopped buying Bowser engine kits almost a decade ago not because I couldn't BUILD their stuff (I can), but because I could get more accurate core models from other manufacturers.
Want a high-quality USRA light 2-8-2? Bowser's is on the BOTTOM of the list of the six models available. In terms of prototype accuracy (even with all of the bells & whistles added) the IHC POS is more accurate. How about Bowser's "USRA" 2-10-2? Ugh; who designed that abomination? In ALL cases where there's competition for a Bowser steam engine model the competition wins.
I wonder if Bowser would be shutting down today if 15 years ago they remade their steam kit line in line with the likes of DJH. I drool over those engine models, even if they ARE foreign road prototypes, and will definitely build a couple in the near future. Bowser engines haven't gotten me as excited in 20 years...
I highly doubt they'll be selling their tooling, until old man English finally dies. At that point the entire company will likely be liquidated. Buy your Cal-Scale and Cary parts while you can!
Ray Breyer
Modeling the NKP's Peoria Division, circa 1943
Yes Bowser is getting out of the kit business mainly because they haven't sold ONE this year. BUT everything is being sold to another individual who intends to produce them amd upgrade the drives. There hae been an ongoing discussion in this regard on the PRR boards for about one week now.
Bowser is a throwback to the days when modelers built their own locos. RTR is where it is at now. When I got serious about the hobby back in the late 1970s, Bowser was one of the few companies still offering loco kits. It seemed a little outdated even back then. Frankly, I'm surprised they were able to offer these kits for as long as they did. My own feeling is that building a locomotive from a kit makes about as much sense as using a typewriter. I know there are still holdouts who like the feel of the old typewriters just as there are still a few folks who enjoy the challenge of building things themselves. But realisitically, why would I want to spend all that time building and painting a kit when I know it won't look nearly as good as the RTR loco I take out of the box. Progress is all about finding more efficient ways to get things done.
The only only thing I ever bought from Bowser was an 18" turntable. To say it was sparse on detail would be an understatement. It worked fairly well but it would have required a lot of additional parts and many hours of work and it still would not have looked nearly as good as the comparable sized RTR Walthers turntable I bought a few years ago.
. . . . . THE TIMES THEY ARE A'CHANGIN' . . . . .
This is indeed sad but one really did not need a crystal ball to see what was in the future. Although most of my HO-Scale kits were Cary/Mantuas--7 units--I had assembled five Hobbytown of Boston kits and there were five Bowsers in my stable--two K-11s, two USRA Santa Fe's and one USRA Mountain. The latter was actually finished after I had begun my transition to N-Scale circa 1982. They were perhaps a mite tedious to build but were a lot of fun and gave a great sense of accomplishment when completed. They were, admittedly, noisy but they would pull the walls down and when you added a bunch of superdetailing they could be made nice looking lokes.
I haven't really followed Bowser's line of late and I don't recall reading of any upgraded models; I will speculate therefore that they are pretty primitive compared to some current ready-to-roll models. Nevertheless I have entertained fantasies of a return to HO-Scale and I have always thought that if I did I would assemble a few die-cast metal kits for inclusion on a transition-era layout.
Bowser steam locomotive kits will be missed.
I might add here that these locomotive kits lent themselves to what I call Independent Standardisation. In my case I was about halfway through the installation of Elesco feedwater heaters, Baker valve gear, semi-Vanderbilt tenders and many others. Admittedly just adding a plethora of superdetail parts over-and-above those parts supplied with Bowser's standard superdetail kit could add a considerable expense to the kit itself but it allowed one to create a uniqueness. My fleet was beginning to look like part of a fleet!
From the far, far reaches of the wild, wild west I am: rtpoteet
Folks:
I got that Email this morning, too. This SUCKS.
Now everybody is going to do what they do on the internets when something gets discontinued - jump on the It Sucked Anyway Bandwagon. Very predictable.
You know what sucks? $450 HO locos that run on 24 volts DC. Rubber traction tires everywhere to make locos pull at all. Bowser stuff didn't suck. For under a hundred bucks you could get a US-made loco that would pull like mad and would run fifty years or more. Come back in fifty years and see how much of the competition is still running.
So they didn't have every little miniscule detail. The deluxe kits had plenty, but even the basic ones were fine. That detail isn't obvious at all on a real-life model. We only demand it now because the magazines are full of close-up photos.
Bowser did upgrade things. Their B6 even had a can motor. They weren't hard to build. They were FUN to build. Yes, building things is fun, whatever the do-nothing zero-skill buy-now-pay-later slobs that are wrecking this country think.
Bowser could have done more to promote their stuff, but it was an uphill battle, when everybody was whining about how how horrible it is to do anything or learn anything new. Please hold our hands for us. Please give us our Chinese baby bottle.
Yeah, I'm mad. I've got limited funds and Bowser locos were one way to stretch the dollar, and get something good. Nobody seems to care about economy any more. I guess everybody is rich or something. Ever price those DJH kits that people are unfavorably comparing Bowser to? The cheap, good stuff that took a little enjoyable work just keeps going by the wayside. Nobody cares about domestic production any more. It's all about sucking that Kader nipple, because that's who produces practically all HO steam now - Kader, parent company of Bachmann. (They recently bought Sanda Kan, and Mehano seems to be in trouble).
But at least the lazy skilless slackers have their boring RTR.
It's not all bad, you know. I bet I could sit down and design a die this weekend, find a secondhand zinc casting press, and a lathe, and have a kit line going by summer. And you know...maybe, some day, I'll do just that. Why not? In the shorter term, this might be just the impetus I need to start trying to scratchbuild a steam loco again.
selector I am of the opinion that, as lamentable as this announcement is, the fact is that we, the consumer, are what drives such news. If Bowser can't sell because we won't buy, what does the reactive and proactive business do? They adapt or go under. Also, my opinion, blaming the Chinese is like blaming the drug pusher for our habits. Pooh widdo meee, I can't hewp but buy dos nasty Chinees engines....oh, hewp meee, hewp meeee!!!! Let's get real, boys and men (and any ladies reading), we in N. America thump our chests about freedoms, self-determination and rights. And by golly, we sure as heck exercise 'em....all the way to (name the toy train manufacturer of choice) for our latest "fix". Point the finger at thyself for a change. -Crandell
that is a great statement, but I have modeled (and let me emphasize modeled) the 1989 era since, you guessed it, 1989, which means no steam, dispite their wonderfulness, and nostalgia, and all that stuff.
So your brush paints too wide of a stripe on the modeling community.
Bob
Autobus PrimeBut at least the lazy skilless slackers have their boring RTR.
And that is the main reason why RTR is the name of the game in this coo coo market--I want it yesterday----and I don' wanna do it myself!!!!
Autobus Prime It's not all bad, you know. I bet I could sit down and design a die this weekend, find a secondhand zinc casting press, and a lathe, and have a kit line going by summer. And you know...maybe, some day, I'll do just that. Why not? In the shorter term, this might be just the impetus I need to start trying to scratchbuild a steam loco again.
And same here----I've already found a book on tool and die making that I had in my silly book collection. I'll read up on it and start playing around--I can't seem to find enough vehicles either so----
ndbprrYes Bowser is getting out of the kit business mainly because they haven't sold ONE this year. BUT everything is being sold to another individual who intends to produce them amd upgrade the drives. There hae been an ongoing discussion in this regard on the PRR boards for about one week now.
That is the good news. I still have my Big Boy/Challengers to finish up but their close and I have been focusing on building my layout so its on the back burner. The website doesnt mention this yet.
Bowser actually has upgraded their tooling more than a lot of people might think.
The A-5 0-4-0 shifter has fairly recent (early 90s?) body and tender castings, as well as a very good detail kit and a can motor drive.
The L-1 2-8-2 and K-4 4-6-2 use a boiler that was completely redeveloped in the late 80s, and it still makes an excellent looking model. The tender is fairly new too.
The T-1 4-4-4-4 was completely redeveloped and also makes a nice model. It still uses the old Penn Line method of mounting the boiler, and it's not quite as good as the BLI model, but it's still very nice when finished.
The M1 4-8-2, with its large brass detail kit, makes one of Bowser's best models. A couple more parts and a HH remotor, and it's about as good as any brass model.
The I-1 2-10-0, E-6 4-4-2, H-9 2-8-0, and G-5 4-6-0 have also been redone like the other ones I mentioned, and as another member said before, the B-6 is brand new.
I hope someone continues the line, because it would be a shame if it was gone.
End of an era. I fondly remember assembling my Bowser K4 Pacific which I still have, it was my first locomotive kit. I also still have the E6 Atlantic kit which I never did assemble.
Enjoy
Paul
cacole Practically everyone today wants to buy everything in fully assembled form and then call themselves "modelers."
andrechapelon grizlump9 can we blame it on the chinese? maybe walthers? grizlump How about people who want cheap trains and ready to run at that?
blownout cylinder Autobus PrimeBut at least the lazy skilless slackers have their boring RTR. And that is the main reason why RTR is the name of the game in this coo coo market--I want it yesterday----and I don' wanna do it myself!!!!
OW!! I just pulled an ocular muscle by rolling my eyes too vigorously!
Come on, guys. I'm sorry for you that Bowser's no longer making steam loco kits, but this anti-"RTR Crowd" rhetoric is getting kind of tired. Seems like this kind of "debate" is a staple of this forum, though.
And for those of you who are feeling guilty for not buying any of Bowser's kits and contributing to their demise - give me a break! Circuit City just went out of business. Chrysler might not be around this time next year. Are you blaming yourselves for not buying more electronics and mini vans? Bowser felt the cost of producing and maintaining (and/or upgrading) the product line was not justified by the demand signal from the market. C'est la vie. Would your purchase of a single kit or two have prevented them from discontinuing production? Maybe, but probably not. But your purchasing decisions shouldn't be based on keeping a company or product line afloat just for the sake of having it around (in theory, at least). It should be a personal decision based on your own needs, desires, and values. Is the feeling of satisfaction in completing the loco kit worth the investment in time required to build it? Do you model PRR steam in HO? Are you willing to pay a higher overall price to superdetail the kit to the level of detail of a comparable modern RTR plastic model? For me personally, the answer to all 3 is "no." I concede that it is a shame to see a product line like this being discontinued (for the time being, at least), but I don't feel guilty because of it.
Dan Stokes
My other car is a tunnel motor