The "DCC WAVE" has it influenced your model railroading?

[Anonymous]

Fully DCC since 1998 and have NO regrets. [:D]
Yes converting 75 locos took some time and expense. Took a lot of time too. It has also given me unparalelled realism and freedom of movement, that I never had with DC. I also have gained a lot of first hand knowlege that has given me the confidence to install decoders for others. This in itself has a value that you cannot put a price on and there is an added bonus. Folks pay me to install decoders for them now! This from a guy who has troubles replacing the batteries in the camera or programming the VCR!
For those folks who think that DCC will be replaced in a few years by something else? Dont hold your breath![:(] GE's ASTRAC, Mann Made CTC, and even Dynatrol failed for one primary reason, There was NO industry wide support for any of those systems. DCC was concieved as FREE architecture for the entire industry, so everyone could produce compatable systems. Consumer history is full of "also rans" who died out, until an industry standard was either was selected or mandated, or the competition died out.
2 examples? Railroad track guage and home video recording equiptment.[:0]

[Anonymous]

Hello Karlb,

I was under the impression that the latest NMRA recommendations for DCC covers the 'new' feedback decoders, essentially replacing the old dumb remote control unit with a smart responding computer. Taking advantage of the feedback would require a rather more sophisticated base station to use this new information usefully.

Essentially DCC3 has made DCC2 and DCC1 redundant already so that's twice that it has been replaced by something better. Will it be replaced by something better again? I should bloody well hope so, have you looked at a phone or computer lately. It doesn't resemble last years model much does it. I think we will all see the day when we will read threads such as "How much flash memory does a switcher need" and "When my loco downloads after a session the pictures aren't lined up" and of course my favourite "My Loco's are all Microsoft and my pals layout is Mackintosh, how do I run my trains on his layout?"

[Anonymous]

Mi get DCC for christmas and i LOVE IT![8)]

[Anonymous]

I'm currently building my layout which is DCC.
Ch

[Anonymous]

Tony
The high end DCC system really are computers in their own right! I cannot see replaceing my NCE unit when the technology gets "way out there". It's a simple PROM change.
In years past, we have seen one idea replace another (Astrac/Mann-made CTC16/ Dynatrol. All incompatible with each other. What we are seeing now is evolution of a concept, each step building on what went before. ALL the manufacturers (except maybe one idiot in Maryland) seem to want to continue down this path, as compatability between system means more sales for all.
Regards,

[AntonioFP45]

Kbfcsme,

You really pullued it together regarding DCC. I remember Dynatrol, CTC 16, and CTC 80. While these systems seemed promising, many of us didn't "go for it". I myself, felt intimidated by the electronics involved.

Because of the "free architecture" , NMRA adoption, and easy compatibilty with other DCC manufacturer's products, it will evolve. The modeler will simply " UPGRADE" rather than "RIP OUT & REPLACE" as the technology advances.

Since 1990, my home computer (the one I'm using for this message) has been upgraded from a 386 to a 486, to a Pentium 1, to a Pentium 3, and lastly a Pentium 4 in 2001! The last 2 updgrades each cost less than the original one! About the price of a Kato engine!

[AntonioFP45]

Just wanted to pass this info on. [;)][;)]

Went with two good friends of mine to the H & R Trains show on March 4th. Great show. Mr. Loudon from "TCS" (Train Control Systems) was there presenting DCC demonstrations with an HO locomotive "demo" layout. Very down to earth rep. TCS decoders themselves are pretty good products and come with a great "no questions asked" type of warranty. My friend, Cmarchan, has installed some TCS DCC decoders in some of his HO Athearn and Atlas locomotives. Performance is flawless!

According to info, TCS is currently developing DCC/Sound decoders. For now the plans are for "steam locomotive" sounds. It won't be soon though as the owner of TCS is demanding and wants a top quality product that we would enjoy. [:)][tup]




Regardless, it's good that TCS is on the bandwagon.[:D][:)][;)][8)]

[Anonymous]

i started out with the block control system like everyone else. back in the fifties that's all there was. i graduated to dynatrol about 15 years ago. i installed nce dcc about 4 months ago,and am enjoying it. the dynatrol worked fine but i simply outgrew it . with the wide range of frequencies and functions available nce has opened up a whole new part of the hobby to enjoy. sound , speed control and lighting. the standards make it possible for most users of dcc to mix and match equipment, regardless what brand you use. standard dc works fine too if that is what you prefer.

[Anonymous]

DCC??

Yes. I am building a new layout and already have the system and several locos equipped with decoders, three with sound. After operating sessions at several DCC layouts, I became a big fan off DCC. No more "Who has my block?". Another cool thing is to have helper locos with two separate operators running their engines independently. Also cool to blow the whistle , turn on the bell etc. with a wireless throttle.

While I love DCC there is one layout in the area that is truly a masterpiece that is still DC. I jump at the chance to run there and always have a great time doing so. I think there is room for both.

Guy

[Anonymous]

Went with Digitrax DCC in 1999 and have enjoyed the flexibility over block control. I consider it well worth evey dollar I spent, but I only had 5 locos to euip with decoders at the time. Can understand the reluctance of those with 20 locos to convert $wise. Would never consider going back to block control.

[sparkingbolt]

I have a nice DC layout , don't have immediate plans to change. I'm not a stick in the mud, DCC has it's appeal. I'm keeping the option open, but have many other priorities. Dan

[Anonymous]

keeping with DC now, when I complete my new layout, might consider putting DCC in

[orsonroy]

I've been toying with the idea of switching to DCC for various reasons, but it took the sound issue to tip the balance. I've had the opportunity to operate on all-sound equipped layouts a few times over the past year, and I recently bought one of the BLI heavy Mikes. Considering I'm a steam nut, sound is almost a must. Steam without any sound is pretty boring, now that I've got two engines with it (yes, the BLI engine impressed me enough that I bought a second one, and I don't really need ANY USRA heavies!). Now sound is a must for virtually my entire fleet. In fact, I'll be purging my steam fleet in order to pay for a few sound decoders! Too bad we can't effectively scale down the smoke and steam that goes along with a steam engine....

Starting a new layout from scratch also affected my choice to go DCC. My new layout features a 225' mainline with three major roads and several interchange roads, all feeding into one very large yard. Adding up the costs of multiblock controls (al least seven cabs) and the complexity of blocking and wiring a large engine terminal made me realize that DCC would price out about the same and give me fewer headaches. Adding the sound equation made DCC basically the only choice for me! I now have a Digitrax Empire builder on order (IR equipped).

DCC isn't a magical cure-all however. Frankly, I'm sorta miffed at the lack of choices for DCC sets. You basically have started sets that have very limited operability (MRC), starter sets that won't work well for all DCC applications (Atlas), starter sets that won't power a large layout (Zephry), or mid to high range systems that offer too much for most midlevel users. I want to run lots of trains on a large layout, with the option of sound functions. I could care less about route control, signalling, automation, or computer interfaces, but I can't get a starter set that'll crank out 10-20 amps.

[Anonymous]

I am in process of building a 5'x13' HO layout where I will be the only operator and never run more than 2 trains. There just ain't enough room on a 5x13 for more than 1 freight and 1 passenger train.

When I started planning the layout a year ago I had it broken into blocks and planned to go DC. I am a electronics hobbist and decided to build some circuits that would enhance the central train control (CTC) panel and turnout switching. After reading the "hype" on DCC I priced out the total cost of building my layout DC with electronic enhancements vs an inexpensive DCC system. The Digitrax Zephyr at $169 was cheaper than the cost of the toggle switches and electronic parts which would have cost me about $200. So about 6 mos ago I decided to go DCC and have been saving my nickels and dimes to buy the Zephyr when the time comes to start operations.

However, now that I am ready to start wiring the layout I have come to realize that the switch machines will need to be either DCC controlled or toggle switch controlled. DCC static decoders cost more than toggles but toggles put me back to a CTC panel. Whether I use DCC or toggles to switch turnouts I still need to take action and do the switching. Yes, the switching could be done with a computer controlled DCC layout but can't see buying another computer to have near the layout. Besides if it were computer controlled, what would I do, sit and watch the train go 'round and 'round? The only benefit of DCC that I see at this time would be that I wouldn't need to throw the cab control toggle when I throw the turnout toggle. A DCC system would however reduce finger fatigue by 50%. [:D]

DCCer's please don't stone me, I know there is more to DCC than eliminating a few toggle switches. I am still on the DC or DCC fence. I will need to fall off the fence soon or my layout progress will come to a halt.

After re-reading this reply, maybe DC would be the way to go for a small, one person layout. "Help, I'm falling and I can't..."

[LuthierTom]

With a 4x8 2-track HO layout, I just haven't felt the need to get into DCC. Maybe someday, maybe not. I'm one of these people who just finds sitting back in an easy chair and watching the trains go round and round very relaxing and a good way to unwind after a hard day's work. Sorta like an aquarium but without the fuss, mess, dead fish and constant cleaning! [swg][|)][zzz]

[AntonioFP45]

Orsonroy,
Wouldn't the Digitrax Empire Builder meet your needs, even though it does have a couple of extra "bells & whistles" options?


Snake,

I know what you mean as the layout I will be building won't be large either. It would be about the size of your layout, though folded dogbone style.

What I like about DCC's opportunities is that with the type of layout I'm planning; two trains max would run on the mainline but I could:


[1] Perform local switching at the industries, while carefully avoiding collisions.
[2] Switch locomotives around at the locomotive shop service facility as they fuel up.
[3] Have (sound equipped) locomotives standing by with diesel engines idling at the
engine servicing facility awaiting the next assigments. Headlights or rule 17 lights
would be on. Now that's way too cool!

For me these features add tremendously to the flavor, atmosphere and realism of the railroad that makes it so believable. [C=:-)] So even a 4x6 layout could benefit from DCC!

[:)][:D][tup][swg]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Orsonroy,
Wouldn't the Digitrax Empire Builder meet your needs, even though it does have a couple of extra "bells & whistles" options?

Antonio,

That's the system I've got on order right now, with IR receivers for the mainline crews (yards and interchanges can be tethered for the time being). The problem that I have with DCC systems is that I really don't need more than about 1/2 of what the Digitrax system has to offer. And since I work with electronics on a daily basis (we build 'em here at work) I know that the more bells & whistles you've got, the more things there are to go wrong. My preferred system would have been the Atlas Master system beefed up to three power districts, and maybe a wireless system of some sort. Unfortunately, the ATlas system sends 19 amps to the rails instead of the NMRA RP of 17 amps, and neither Soundtraxx nor QSI sound systems work well with Atlas. In addition, the designed wireless throttle system for the Atlas system is the Lenz XPA, which uses a cordless phone. I don't like that solution to wireless control. Frankly, a Zephyr with a few extra throttles and a bigger power supply would have worked too, but you can't really do that with that Digitrax system.

I don't need most of what DCC has to offer. I like the fact that DCC eliminates block wiring (not blocks), and that you can run multiple trains more flexibly than with block control. I also like sound. I have absolutely no need for stationary decoders, signalling, back EMF, route control, computer interfaces, automation, speed tables, dispatching, etc. I just won't use them on my new system, but I would have liked to have the option of buying a more bare bones system that had more track power output.

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LuthierTom

With a 4x8 2-track HO layout, I just haven't felt the need to get into DCC. Maybe someday, maybe not. I'm one of these people who just finds sitting back in an easy chair and watching the trains go round and round very relaxing and a good way to unwind after a hard day's work. Sorta like an aquarium but without the fuss, mess, dead fish and constant cleaning! [swg][|)][zzz]

Me too. [:)]

The thought of a formal "operating session" with dispatching and rules and timetables etc. gives me the willies. I do enough thinking at work. At home I just want to have fun playing with my trains. [:p]

And you are absolutely right about watching your trains to unwind after work. Even my 27 year-old son remarked how relaxing it was to watch my trains run the first time he saw them.

Now, to get back to the original topic... I don't think I'll be doing DCC anytime soon. The size and lack of complexity of my layout just doesn't justify it.

[:)]

[cjcrescent]

I was brought into DCC kicking and screaming. My club voted to go DCC several years ago. I viewed the cost of converting all my locomotives as prohibitive. Never mind the cost of a base station, controller (throttle, hand held etc) as well as "learning" a new method to wire a layout. As an incentive to get the business my LHS held a sale for the club and any system could be bought at his cost. So since the club was using Digitrax, I got the Empire Builder. I also got as much reading material on DCC as I could. I did find that I have a knack for installing decoders and found out that if you follow the wiring principles for wiring a conventional layout that is NOT using a common rail scheme, the wiring rules are really no different from conventional wiring. The cost has certainly been coming down and now I think that BASED on what I want to do with my layout, it is cheaper than conventional DC. Plus given the flexibility of control I can now concentrate on improving the operations and not upkeep. I now run the trains and not the layout.

[johncolley]

My initial experiences with DCC are on a friend's layout. The first operating session I was able to approach an inbound to pull a block off for switching while he came onto the other end of the A/D track to remove the crummy and pull it to the cabin track. Try that with analog! Yes, I am hoarding my pocket change to get DCC! I have a pair of BLI e-7's that are great on my 14 car Empire Builder! At the same time I am going to convert some of my existing freight equipment. I have a 4 unit Stewart FT that is first on my list. I model Great Northern circa 1947. Sound is the way of the future. johncolley Port Townsend, WA

[jfugate]

If you are at all serious about operation, wireless DCC is a dream come true. I use wireless EasyDCC on my Siskiyou Line and my op crew loves it!

Been using DCC since 1993 and haven't looked back. There are some considerations with using DCC, especially on a larger layout, that make your life simpler. Will be covering those in a clinic at the National in Seattle this July.

Or if you can't make the clinic, will be publishing this material and more in a series of videos ... see: http://model-train-videos.com .

One tidbit you can find on my web site for making your DCC layout more "short resistant" is here: http://siskiyou.railfan.net/wiring.html

[NevinW]

I switched to DCC last year and will never go back to DC. I would leave the hobby and go fly model airplanes first. DCC finally makes a locomotive behave like a real one. The ability to run more than one engine on the same track and double head them with any jerryrigged set-ups like cut off switches has made running trains a real pleasure. With the new Lenz decoders with the ability to run through dirty track, I think we will finally what we have always wanted- freedom to run an engine like a real engine. The sound systems are just an added bonus. - Nevin

[Anonymous]

Other than all the benefits of DCC over DC mentioned by everyone thus far, what is tipping me 'off the fence' into DCC is my wife who said that " being able to operate a locomotive (as opposed to controlling a layout throwing toggles, not being able to operate helpers realistically or switching yards, etc.,) would get her involved in 'working on the railroad' with me and not just a spectator when I dragged her down to the basement to watch the trains go around. . .I've been away from the hobby for approx 10 yrs and have been without a layout for much longer than that. Now I understand just how Rip Van Winkle felt when he woke up from his 20 yr nap. Boy has the hobby evolved! I am in the planning stages now (already started framing RR room in basement) for a 24 X 32 point to point , single track main bridge route w/ a branch line and quarries as online industry set in the late '40s. I plan on having at least one hidden staging yard and two interchanges. I don't care at this point about sound, although that is more a matter of finances. Probably only 2 or 3 trains will be operated at same time, though helpers and double heading will be common practice. Hopefully DCC will follow the trends of most consumer electronics in that as capability increases, prices decrease. It's good that there seems to be a fairly well defined industry standard supported by the NMRA. I for one do not need or want a super sophisticated DCC system and am hoping that in a year or so when I'm at the stage where I'll be able to run some trains, there will be some basic, but capable systems that meet my needs, or even some low mileage pre-owned systems available for sale (or barter, since I have a woodworking business and make hardwood display cases, model railroad benchwork and just about anything else out of wood - sorry about the 'shameless' plug). Any recommendations on a particular system that would meet my needs, as well as a decent book that "de-mistifies" DCC for non-techies types, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

sorry, but at present, DCC is just too rich for my wallet. Maybe if the prices start to decrease (LOL) I will buy one , but if I figured right, it would cost me around $450 to get a system, and the decoders[:0][wow]

[AntonioFP45]

MaineCentral229,

If this helps, quality brand DCC decoders can be purchased from Litchfield Station and Tony's Trains in the $20 range. Prices have really come down in the last 2 years!

I'll be pursuing TCS decoders myself.

[:D][8D][:)][8)][swg][tup]

[randybc2003]

I rember the ASTRACK system of the early '60's, and thought "how prototypical". Trouble was, : expensive, dificult to understand (i thought), BIG (it seemed nothing short of O would swollow it), and somewhat limited. (only 16 channels, etc. I was out of the hobby (more or less) in the early '80's when CTC-16 was published. When I saw DCC, for HO and N yet, I thought: "Now I can run helpers, Snowplows, and switching manuvers prototype fashion."
I bought the Digitrax Chief. Several reasons:
Localy available. Several hobby shops supported it.
Local Experience: Three clubs in the area; two used IT. (the third still may use DC Blocks - I Think)
Seemed to be the most flexable. One thing Computers taught me. Get the biggest, strongest, most powerful you can afford. It will be obsolete shortly. Also, you may not think the "bells and whistles" are important, but you will get accostemed to them.
Two Knobs. I now push my rotary snow plow around with my big steamer. They both have decoders, and I can control both of them at the same time. I have other plans for another rotary and steamer cooking in the back of my mind.
I joined one of the clubs, and regularrly operate my locos and rolling stock on DCC. One of these days I am going to MU something.

[rogerhensley]

I have a 'mature' layout with a number of older locos that are not DCC friendly. I have no inention of changing as I will not scrap the equipment that I have in operation.

Now, that said, I highly recommend DCC for anyone just starting or beginning a new layout. There is so much more that can be done with DCC that DC is no longer a good option for new layouts.

[AntonioFP45]

Roger,

What type of older locos do you have? If they're equipped with open frame motors, there are plenty of low-amp replacement motors available for O, HO, and N scales now. Several of my units are over 20 years old but I will remotor them, one unit at a time as my budget allows.

[Anonymous]

im gonna begin building a 4x8 HO layout hopefully by the end of summer. Im also wanting it to be some thing to be able to just relax and watch trains go by, then switch one or two cars then let the train run some more.

theres not really room to have more than 1 train running on a 4x8 layout, so for that reason, im not gonna invest into DCC unless i see Bachmanns E-Z command at my hobby shop. In my opinion that would be the only DCC system worth it for my layout, since they will be selling it, along with a engine that has a decoder in it.

but for only one engine, or maybe even two engines in the future. DCC wont be worth it.

[Anonymous]

I'm contemplating buying one of the new Bachmann DCC setups when they come out - it'll be able to address 9 DCC locos, 1 analog loco, and will be able to work with other systems as a slave controller unit later on. Decoders will be very cheap by the sounds of it, as will the control unit, though it's all still fully DCC compatible.