The "DCC WAVE" has it influenced your model railroading?

[Anonymous]

My layout will be controlled using Bachmann EZ DCC command, but until I can get that, I'll stick to DC. DC is just fine, DCC does seem a appealing, but with all the lights and sounds, ugh! Sound is great in one or two locomotives but after a while, IT BECOMES NOISE. Bachmann's DCC is the only DCC that's easy to hook up to EZ track. I don't plan on having more than 12 locos anytime soon, anyway.

[Anonymous]

I just use conventional power on my layout and am very happy with it. I have no intention of getting DCC.

[Fergmiester]

Whether I'll have an option in a few years is erelavent. I'll stay with DC cab control as long as I can. I have only so many dollars available and do not feel obliged to cave to the "You must Have This" Gurus. There are more important things to buy then DCC chips for $50s.

[dano99a]

I converted my DC layout to DCC back in January, since then I've converted all my engines over (total of 12) and I'd never go back.

I use Digitrax empire builder and to be honest the hardest part was installing a decoder in a P2K SW9. Digitrax doesn't make a true-plug and play decoder for them so I tried a decoder from NCE (which wasn't plugin play either) 2 hours and a bunch of soldering later it worked fine. Digitrax does make a GREAT (true plug and play) decoder for P2K GP7's & 9's "DH163LO" no bulb replacment what so ever, takes the better part of 2 minutes to install, program and get rolling

So to sum it up, converting was EASY. If you have blocks set up then it will make signaling all the easier in the future. Installing the decoders into the SW9's was the hardest most time consuming project yet. Beyond that I'd reccomend it to anyone.

[Anonymous]

After seeing how well DCC worked at my LHS, I knew that was the way I was going to go. I have one HO layout that has cab-control, and while it's nice, I would like to make my layouts all DCC, from the locomotives, right down to the signalling devices. It would be nice if I had the bucks (and the space) to computerize the system so that when I send a train down a particular track for a particular destination, I can let the computer handle the switches.

I'm not "pressured" into wanting DCC, I see it as a great way for me to control more than one operation at a time. I am somewhat frustrated at times by the lack of DCC-friendly locomotives out there, but I'm glad that there are 'workarounds' for all of them.

I've run DCC in N-scale, I have a very beautiful (in MY eyes!) Norfolk Southern SD80MAC from Kato in HO. I lack the decoder for that, but it's a simple drop-in decoder that's not all that expensive even for the full-features of the decoder (Digitrax, by the way.)

I plan to buy a Digitrax Empire Builder from my LHS, not because he's cheaper, but because he's generally given me good advice on my purchases and he's been extremely generous with his layaway policy. He has offered my choice of freight car from his "premium" display case, all because I helped with a computer problem at his shop. The help I gave certainly wasn't worth the cost of the car, so I declined his offer because he operates on a shoestring budget, anyway. He's helped me, so I figured it wasn't too much for me to help him.

Why Digitrax? I like the design of the controllers, plus, I have the software and cabling for my Palm PDA that enables it to function just like a Digitrax UT2 throttle. I'm not putting down the other manufacturers, I just prefer to go with what I already have.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Fergmiester, [:)]

You're right, no need to feel obligated other than to have fun! [;)][swg][tup]

Don't feel that this poll is about "Gestapo-Like" pressure to cave in to.
No "Got to Have It" gurus here! I also find them annoying!

As I've indicated in other polls, most of our budgets are tight. (By the way, basic DCC decoders are now available for $18! Prices are dropping like flies! )

There's absolutely nothing wrong with traditional DC cabs. The Suncoast Model Railroad Club in Largo, Florida operates successfully with DC cabs, though the club will be switching over to DCC in the next year. Impressive layout! 70 car HO unit trains with 5 locomotives pulling are among the spectacles! Worth visiting if you're ever in Florida. Go to: www.suncoastmrrc.com

Basically DCC is doing today what DC cab did for model railroading decades back, opening new doors for creativity and operation on a different field. That's all.

As I stated on another thread, I was 100% anti-DCC! I felt no need for it and it was too pricey! A simple demonstration by a no pressure TCS rep, a gentleman in his late 50s won me over! He let me run locomotives on his DCC demo layout. Totally independent control, turning lights on and off, total control of sound effects, and three head on collisions!!!!! [;)][:D][:)][:p]

[Anonymous]

After having a layout with several electrical switches working different things, it became too confusing and frustrating to be fun.

[Anonymous]

I only have 5X9ft with a couple of extensions. I have never considered going to DCC. If someday I get the room to build a bigger layout then I'll consider going to DCC.

Thanks,
Jeremy

[Eriediamond]

Having read the above replies, I have to say I agree with 99.9% of them. Am I going to convert to DCC? won't say never, but no intentions of doing so now. Hopefully the price will come down to be more affordable in the future. A statement was made that comparing DCC to cab control years ago. I disagree only in that cab control didn't drive the price up of the rest of the equipment. I'm not anti-DCC by no means and welcome all the new technology being developed today and have little doubt DCC will be replaced by something newer years from now. It seems the aim of manufacturers is to produce "DCC ready" products and this is where I have problem. DCC people say, and rightfuly so, that they are not forcing DCC onto us that by choice, choose not to use it. They are being completely honest in saying that, but we non-DCC people are being forced to spend the extra money to buy locomotives with the extra electonics installed, that we won't use at what cost?? Thats my only "beef" about DCC. In this sense, yes DCC has influenced my model railroading.

[CP5415]

I have no intentions of going DCC. Unless I win the lottery.
The layout I'm presently building & re-inventing as I go, I don't have the need for DCC.
I have 35 locomotives & the list is growing. To convert to DCC would break the bank account.
I know of the bonuses of DCC, I also know that I don't have the patience to solder boards into Athearn locomotives.

Gordon

[BRAKIE]

I have 6 locomotives out of 97 DCC/Sound equipped..The other 91 units will remain DC for club use...
I am just wondering how long DCC will last before a new and improve method comes a long that will replace DCC and one will sooner or later as technology improves.

[CNJ831]

Talk about a tyically DCC biased poll! Nine choices for replies but not one for the guy with a DC layout that thinks DC is just fine and plans to stick with it.

I've had DC layouts for a quarter century. I've seen several DCC layouts in operation. I have no plans whatever to change over. And the way the poll is rigged I am unable to cast any meaningful vote.

CNJ831

[Anonymous]

CNJ831, There certainly is an option for you up there: "Keeping my layout DC, but I'll keep the DCC option open". An option can remain open until the end of time! I have the "option" of running both on my layout and plan to keep it that way. You could have cast a meaning full vote by simply stating DCC SUCKS! That's what you'd want the poll to say anyway, right?

I like my DCC! It's much less expensive then you uninformed folks seem to think.

[Anonymous]

I'll have a 4 by 8 foot layout with a small extension within a year. All locomotives are going to be DCC equipped and evetually Soundtraxx equipped. I'm thinking about using the Digitrax Zephyr system. (nice name to go along with my favorite road, Digitrax!)

[memsd]

As soon as my wife removes a few items from the room, I'll be starting on an L-shaped 8x12 layout. The majority of it will be DCC (DigiTraxx) with a route that I can isolate and switch between DCC and DC (I'm still trying to work out the details). That will allow me to run any of my locos whether DCC equiped or not.

[johncolley]

I am really impressed with the engineering in my two BLI E-7's and I'm looking forward to getting the switchers soon. The hard part for me is deciding how many of my existing DC locos to sell to put the money into converting the others to DCC/sound. I know I will keep my Stewart FT foursome and maybe one or two others, the GP-7's. I am modelling GN in the late '40's/early '50's. Most of my locos that I part with will be later than that period, so that helps me choose. The biggest thing I have found is that DCC and sound make me want to operate realistically instead of just throttle-jockeying.

[AntonioFP45]

CNJ831,[;)]

Thanks for the input. [swg][tup] There is a category I've added that you might feel comfortable with voting now.

As for bias? I am pro-DCC but it's not my intention to try and "shove anyone's face into it. The intention is to see what WE; a cross section of modelers, feel about getting into DCC. Plain and simple. We're all still modelers. There should be no more friction between DC and DCC modelers as there is between N scale and O scale modelers; virtually none! [:p][:)]

In essence; there's plenty of room in the basket for Apples and Oranges! Both taste great! [:D][^][8D][8)][:)][;)][C=:-)][C):-)][swg][tup]

[Anonymous]

NO

1) I can't afford it and my experience with cab control at my friends layout has been good.

2) I'm just barely getting my own layout started (two years after entrance)


This is not a knock against DCC but I don't think its affordable for what it does.

[CNJ831]

AntonioFD45 - Thanks for reworking the choices and providing one that fits my take on the situation.

Unlike what deschane wants to infer from my earlier response, I have nothing against DCC. If you like it, that's fine with me. However, and in spite of the fact that I am quite familiar with DCC, I find no particular advantage for its application on my layout and I am certainly not alone in feeling so. I would remind readers that DC remains the choice of around 80% of all hobbyists and MR itself has indicated that Cab Control is likely to remain the hobby's chief operating system for quite some time to come.

CNJ831

[mls1621]

When I first started planning to build a layout in the early 90's, I had planned to build a simple 4 X 8 N scale spaghetti bowl. I had read some articles about DCC, but didn't think it was in my future.

Then I met my neighbor down the street and expanded my view of what a layout could be.

At our first meeting, his layout, N scale, was an "L" in his garage with staging behind the short leg of the "L".

The big eye opener for me was how he was able to operate using DCC. Once I started running my analog locomotives on his layout in conjunction with his decoder equipped units, I was sold.

Working with him, we expanded his layout, changed some features that reflected the spaghetti bowl principal, and created something that we're both very proud to show at every opportunity. The layout now encompasses most of his two car garage, with the steel mill nearing completion.

In the meantime, my layout plans increased to an "L" shape measuring 10 X 14.
I had been acquiring motive power and rolling stock for several years and finally decided to build something previously unimagined by me. I have a two track mainline with cross overs and a reverse loop. Six tracks of hidden staging behind the scenery, the shortest of which is twelve feet long.

The real magic of N scale for me is the ability to operate trains that more closely resemble the prototype. My longest frieght may only be 45 cars, but it looks great moving through the mountain scenery as I tried to represent Northern Utah.

I purchased a DigiTrax Super Chief, which some may think of as over kill, but I was looking toward the furture and didn't want to be bothered with a need to upgrade.

Now that the bench work is done, all the track is layed, wired and running, I look back and consider the decision appropriate.

I can't imagine trying to operate the layout by any other means than DCC. The flexibility it provides is light years ahead of anything using DC alone.

That's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

[vsmith]

No interest in DCC

Operating DC, Atlas control blocks, manual switches, and a AristoCraft Basic Train Engineer and I love it. [:D]

[Anonymous]

Hmm, nothing on the poll that I could vote for either. The Hairy Otters has 4 DC cabs and I am certainly interested in computer operations but I can make no sense of DCC1 or DCC2. DCC3 seems to finally be a useful development of Command control but it is a bit pathetic as outlined in the new NMRA standards. Now that the dudes at MTH have put the kaibosh on feedback it looks like the useful part is still going to be missing. Without feedback it's just a fancy remote control.

It's not like an embedded system with an IP address is difficult to put together. Yeah yeah, it won't fit in a locomotive without spending lots of cash but it will fit in a tender or box car and it is free of proprietary restrictions.

All of the so called advantages of DCC 1&2 can be achieved easily and automatically using electronics with the exception of head on collisions. I have no tolerance for this behaviour on my layout. A computer in each train however can prevent that from happening, the train can know where it is, how much fuel and water is still on board, where the other trains are, set turnouts and signals and of course unlimited light control and sound, mp3's anyone. Panning and tilting the onboard camera would be trivial, not the nonsense that I have to go through with RC. The train will know which monitor to use for video and which for engineers info, timing, orders and lists.

How do-able is this? Certainly within my reach, resources and abilities.YMMV. I had a look in my train room and figure if I had to purchase at retail all the parts used in my DC system I could have bought a few DCC systems. Getting hold of old used electronic parts for free or little cost is trivial.

One more thought, a few DCCers seem to think they need the system to get a reversing loop to operate automatically. I have a circuit that uses Atlas snap relays that accomplishes this task for about $10.

[Eriediamond]

I hesitate to reply again in that I don't want people thinking I'm putting down what others like and can afford. However I would like to point out that dispite all the advantages I see with DCC operations and all the replies saying "its not that expensive", some of us are on limited incomes, tight budgets and what ever else limits spending on our hobby. Some people buy a new Cadilac every year and some have to buy a used Chevy every five or six years. Yes, the Caddy is a more comfortable car and perhaps more classy, but both the Caddy and the used Chevy get you from piont "A" to point "B". I've looked at the cost of DCC, the locos, the electronics to convert them, the "boxes" required to power them and find that the expence to convert vs what I want my layout to do doesn't warrent spending the extra money I can't afford. Please don't put me in the catagory of putting DCC down as some tend to do because I don't want it. It's just a case of DC supplying my wants and needs on my layout that DCC is not necessary for me. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I was interested in command control since I first read about GE's ASTRAC system way back when. I think that was even before the phrase "carrier control" was coined and it has now been replaced by "command control". I have had the pleasure of operating on a couple of the old analog carrier control systems and I now have DCC on my layout. All have been enjoyable. The cab control layouts I have visited have also been fun to operate. I like the freedom DCC gives you, but DC is still plenty good as well.

Ed

[Anonymous]

Now that I think about, DCC is a bit overated. But, I guess it'd be fun to use 2 locos at once at different speeds, or have one stopped and the other going. It's a pain having to take the pick-up wheels of the loco off the track, if you want to keep it on the track while you run another.

[AggroJones]

My layout is too small to warrant DCC. It is an expensive device I really don't have use for. Being able to control multiple engines on the same rails, sound, lights, and whatever is not a priority to me.

[dragenrider]

DCC hasn't influenced my railroad...yet.

I would love to have light and sound control, but I can't afford the change. I have too much invested in my current fleet of slow geared Athearns and radio cab control set up. At this time I can't justify the expense. That, and I don't feel like messing with all the tiny wire soldering and light bulb changing. [V]

I did see a drop in harness for Athearn which allows the 8 pin plug to fit. That would make if easier! [^] If I ever start over, I will try DCC.

[conford]

Running trains under command control is more fun for me. I have to think about things a little differently due to DCC, but I'd never go back to running trains by throwing toggle switches. The hobby has plenty of room for different scales and methods of controlling a locomotive.

Regards.
Peter

[simon1966]

I am building a moderate basement sized layout. I have 2 young sons and without doubt plan to use DCC. So far the main line and a couple of industrial spurs are constructed. I have devided these up into sub districts ready for DCC, but can use them as simple blocks with my current DC controllers. For me, DCC offers the simplicity and logic for the boys, but will provide me with techncial challenges for signalling and PC control and other computer applications. I am concerned at the cost of converting my locomotive fleet, which is one of the reasons for not going DCC right away. Too much ca***ied up in PECO turnouts to think about getting DCC just yet!

[Anonymous]

Fully DCC since 1998 and have NO regrets. [:D]
Yes converting 75 locos took some time and expense. Took a lot of time too. It has also given me unparalelled realism and freedom of movement, that I never had with DC. I also have gained a lot of first hand knowlege that has given me the confidence to install decoders for others. This in itself has a value that you cannot put a price on and there is an added bonus. Folks pay me to install decoders for them now! This from a guy who has troubles replacing the batteries in the camera or programming the VCR!
For those folks who think that DCC will be replaced in a few years by something else? Dont hold your breath![:(] GE's ASTRAC, Mann Made CTC, and even Dynatrol failed for one primary reason, There was NO industry wide support for any of those systems. DCC was concieved as FREE architecture for the entire industry, so everyone could produce compatable systems. Consumer history is full of "also rans" who died out, until an industry standard was either was selected or mandated, or the competition died out.
2 examples? Railroad track guage and home video recording equiptment.[:0]

[Anonymous]

Hello Karlb,

I was under the impression that the latest NMRA recommendations for DCC covers the 'new' feedback decoders, essentially replacing the old dumb remote control unit with a smart responding computer. Taking advantage of the feedback would require a rather more sophisticated base station to use this new information usefully.

Essentially DCC3 has made DCC2 and DCC1 redundant already so that's twice that it has been replaced by something better. Will it be replaced by something better again? I should bloody well hope so, have you looked at a phone or computer lately. It doesn't resemble last years model much does it. I think we will all see the day when we will read threads such as "How much flash memory does a switcher need" and "When my loco downloads after a session the pictures aren't lined up" and of course my favourite "My Loco's are all Microsoft and my pals layout is Mackintosh, how do I run my trains on his layout?"

[Anonymous]

Mi get DCC for christmas and i LOVE IT![8)]

[Anonymous]

I'm currently building my layout which is DCC.
Ch

[Anonymous]

Tony
The high end DCC system really are computers in their own right! I cannot see replaceing my NCE unit when the technology gets "way out there". It's a simple PROM change.
In years past, we have seen one idea replace another (Astrac/Mann-made CTC16/ Dynatrol. All incompatible with each other. What we are seeing now is evolution of a concept, each step building on what went before. ALL the manufacturers (except maybe one idiot in Maryland) seem to want to continue down this path, as compatability between system means more sales for all.
Regards,

[AntonioFP45]

Kbfcsme,

You really pullued it together regarding DCC. I remember Dynatrol, CTC 16, and CTC 80. While these systems seemed promising, many of us didn't "go for it". I myself, felt intimidated by the electronics involved.

Because of the "free architecture" , NMRA adoption, and easy compatibilty with other DCC manufacturer's products, it will evolve. The modeler will simply " UPGRADE" rather than "RIP OUT & REPLACE" as the technology advances.

Since 1990, my home computer (the one I'm using for this message) has been upgraded from a 386 to a 486, to a Pentium 1, to a Pentium 3, and lastly a Pentium 4 in 2001! The last 2 updgrades each cost less than the original one! About the price of a Kato engine!

[AntonioFP45]

Just wanted to pass this info on. [;)][;)]

Went with two good friends of mine to the H & R Trains show on March 4th. Great show. Mr. Loudon from "TCS" (Train Control Systems) was there presenting DCC demonstrations with an HO locomotive "demo" layout. Very down to earth rep. TCS decoders themselves are pretty good products and come with a great "no questions asked" type of warranty. My friend, Cmarchan, has installed some TCS DCC decoders in some of his HO Athearn and Atlas locomotives. Performance is flawless!

According to info, TCS is currently developing DCC/Sound decoders. For now the plans are for "steam locomotive" sounds. It won't be soon though as the owner of TCS is demanding and wants a top quality product that we would enjoy. [:)][tup]




Regardless, it's good that TCS is on the bandwagon.[:D][:)][;)][8)]

[Anonymous]

i started out with the block control system like everyone else. back in the fifties that's all there was. i graduated to dynatrol about 15 years ago. i installed nce dcc about 4 months ago,and am enjoying it. the dynatrol worked fine but i simply outgrew it . with the wide range of frequencies and functions available nce has opened up a whole new part of the hobby to enjoy. sound , speed control and lighting. the standards make it possible for most users of dcc to mix and match equipment, regardless what brand you use. standard dc works fine too if that is what you prefer.

[Anonymous]

DCC??

Yes. I am building a new layout and already have the system and several locos equipped with decoders, three with sound. After operating sessions at several DCC layouts, I became a big fan off DCC. No more "Who has my block?". Another cool thing is to have helper locos with two separate operators running their engines independently. Also cool to blow the whistle , turn on the bell etc. with a wireless throttle.

While I love DCC there is one layout in the area that is truly a masterpiece that is still DC. I jump at the chance to run there and always have a great time doing so. I think there is room for both.

Guy

[Anonymous]

Went with Digitrax DCC in 1999 and have enjoyed the flexibility over block control. I consider it well worth evey dollar I spent, but I only had 5 locos to euip with decoders at the time. Can understand the reluctance of those with 20 locos to convert $wise. Would never consider going back to block control.

[sparkingbolt]

I have a nice DC layout , don't have immediate plans to change. I'm not a stick in the mud, DCC has it's appeal. I'm keeping the option open, but have many other priorities. Dan

[Anonymous]

keeping with DC now, when I complete my new layout, might consider putting DCC in

[orsonroy]

I've been toying with the idea of switching to DCC for various reasons, but it took the sound issue to tip the balance. I've had the opportunity to operate on all-sound equipped layouts a few times over the past year, and I recently bought one of the BLI heavy Mikes. Considering I'm a steam nut, sound is almost a must. Steam without any sound is pretty boring, now that I've got two engines with it (yes, the BLI engine impressed me enough that I bought a second one, and I don't really need ANY USRA heavies!). Now sound is a must for virtually my entire fleet. In fact, I'll be purging my steam fleet in order to pay for a few sound decoders! Too bad we can't effectively scale down the smoke and steam that goes along with a steam engine....

Starting a new layout from scratch also affected my choice to go DCC. My new layout features a 225' mainline with three major roads and several interchange roads, all feeding into one very large yard. Adding up the costs of multiblock controls (al least seven cabs) and the complexity of blocking and wiring a large engine terminal made me realize that DCC would price out about the same and give me fewer headaches. Adding the sound equation made DCC basically the only choice for me! I now have a Digitrax Empire builder on order (IR equipped).

DCC isn't a magical cure-all however. Frankly, I'm sorta miffed at the lack of choices for DCC sets. You basically have started sets that have very limited operability (MRC), starter sets that won't work well for all DCC applications (Atlas), starter sets that won't power a large layout (Zephry), or mid to high range systems that offer too much for most midlevel users. I want to run lots of trains on a large layout, with the option of sound functions. I could care less about route control, signalling, automation, or computer interfaces, but I can't get a starter set that'll crank out 10-20 amps.

[Anonymous]

I am in process of building a 5'x13' HO layout where I will be the only operator and never run more than 2 trains. There just ain't enough room on a 5x13 for more than 1 freight and 1 passenger train.

When I started planning the layout a year ago I had it broken into blocks and planned to go DC. I am a electronics hobbist and decided to build some circuits that would enhance the central train control (CTC) panel and turnout switching. After reading the "hype" on DCC I priced out the total cost of building my layout DC with electronic enhancements vs an inexpensive DCC system. The Digitrax Zephyr at $169 was cheaper than the cost of the toggle switches and electronic parts which would have cost me about $200. So about 6 mos ago I decided to go DCC and have been saving my nickels and dimes to buy the Zephyr when the time comes to start operations.

However, now that I am ready to start wiring the layout I have come to realize that the switch machines will need to be either DCC controlled or toggle switch controlled. DCC static decoders cost more than toggles but toggles put me back to a CTC panel. Whether I use DCC or toggles to switch turnouts I still need to take action and do the switching. Yes, the switching could be done with a computer controlled DCC layout but can't see buying another computer to have near the layout. Besides if it were computer controlled, what would I do, sit and watch the train go 'round and 'round? The only benefit of DCC that I see at this time would be that I wouldn't need to throw the cab control toggle when I throw the turnout toggle. A DCC system would however reduce finger fatigue by 50%. [:D]

DCCer's please don't stone me, I know there is more to DCC than eliminating a few toggle switches. I am still on the DC or DCC fence. I will need to fall off the fence soon or my layout progress will come to a halt.

After re-reading this reply, maybe DC would be the way to go for a small, one person layout. "Help, I'm falling and I can't..."

[LuthierTom]

With a 4x8 2-track HO layout, I just haven't felt the need to get into DCC. Maybe someday, maybe not. I'm one of these people who just finds sitting back in an easy chair and watching the trains go round and round very relaxing and a good way to unwind after a hard day's work. Sorta like an aquarium but without the fuss, mess, dead fish and constant cleaning! [swg][|)][zzz]

[AntonioFP45]

Orsonroy,
Wouldn't the Digitrax Empire Builder meet your needs, even though it does have a couple of extra "bells & whistles" options?


Snake,

I know what you mean as the layout I will be building won't be large either. It would be about the size of your layout, though folded dogbone style.

What I like about DCC's opportunities is that with the type of layout I'm planning; two trains max would run on the mainline but I could:


[1] Perform local switching at the industries, while carefully avoiding collisions.
[2] Switch locomotives around at the locomotive shop service facility as they fuel up.
[3] Have (sound equipped) locomotives standing by with diesel engines idling at the
engine servicing facility awaiting the next assigments. Headlights or rule 17 lights
would be on. Now that's way too cool!

For me these features add tremendously to the flavor, atmosphere and realism of the railroad that makes it so believable. [C=:-)] So even a 4x6 layout could benefit from DCC!

[:)][:D][tup][swg]

[orsonroy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

Orsonroy,
Wouldn't the Digitrax Empire Builder meet your needs, even though it does have a couple of extra "bells & whistles" options?

Antonio,

That's the system I've got on order right now, with IR receivers for the mainline crews (yards and interchanges can be tethered for the time being). The problem that I have with DCC systems is that I really don't need more than about 1/2 of what the Digitrax system has to offer. And since I work with electronics on a daily basis (we build 'em here at work) I know that the more bells & whistles you've got, the more things there are to go wrong. My preferred system would have been the Atlas Master system beefed up to three power districts, and maybe a wireless system of some sort. Unfortunately, the ATlas system sends 19 amps to the rails instead of the NMRA RP of 17 amps, and neither Soundtraxx nor QSI sound systems work well with Atlas. In addition, the designed wireless throttle system for the Atlas system is the Lenz XPA, which uses a cordless phone. I don't like that solution to wireless control. Frankly, a Zephyr with a few extra throttles and a bigger power supply would have worked too, but you can't really do that with that Digitrax system.

I don't need most of what DCC has to offer. I like the fact that DCC eliminates block wiring (not blocks), and that you can run multiple trains more flexibly than with block control. I also like sound. I have absolutely no need for stationary decoders, signalling, back EMF, route control, computer interfaces, automation, speed tables, dispatching, etc. I just won't use them on my new system, but I would have liked to have the option of buying a more bare bones system that had more track power output.

[Roadtrp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by LuthierTom

With a 4x8 2-track HO layout, I just haven't felt the need to get into DCC. Maybe someday, maybe not. I'm one of these people who just finds sitting back in an easy chair and watching the trains go round and round very relaxing and a good way to unwind after a hard day's work. Sorta like an aquarium but without the fuss, mess, dead fish and constant cleaning! [swg][|)][zzz]

Me too. [:)]

The thought of a formal "operating session" with dispatching and rules and timetables etc. gives me the willies. I do enough thinking at work. At home I just want to have fun playing with my trains. [:p]

And you are absolutely right about watching your trains to unwind after work. Even my 27 year-old son remarked how relaxing it was to watch my trains run the first time he saw them.

Now, to get back to the original topic... I don't think I'll be doing DCC anytime soon. The size and lack of complexity of my layout just doesn't justify it.

[:)]

[cjcrescent]

I was brought into DCC kicking and screaming. My club voted to go DCC several years ago. I viewed the cost of converting all my locomotives as prohibitive. Never mind the cost of a base station, controller (throttle, hand held etc) as well as "learning" a new method to wire a layout. As an incentive to get the business my LHS held a sale for the club and any system could be bought at his cost. So since the club was using Digitrax, I got the Empire Builder. I also got as much reading material on DCC as I could. I did find that I have a knack for installing decoders and found out that if you follow the wiring principles for wiring a conventional layout that is NOT using a common rail scheme, the wiring rules are really no different from conventional wiring. The cost has certainly been coming down and now I think that BASED on what I want to do with my layout, it is cheaper than conventional DC. Plus given the flexibility of control I can now concentrate on improving the operations and not upkeep. I now run the trains and not the layout.

[johncolley]

My initial experiences with DCC are on a friend's layout. The first operating session I was able to approach an inbound to pull a block off for switching while he came onto the other end of the A/D track to remove the crummy and pull it to the cabin track. Try that with analog! Yes, I am hoarding my pocket change to get DCC! I have a pair of BLI e-7's that are great on my 14 car Empire Builder! At the same time I am going to convert some of my existing freight equipment. I have a 4 unit Stewart FT that is first on my list. I model Great Northern circa 1947. Sound is the way of the future. johncolley Port Townsend, WA

[jfugate]

If you are at all serious about operation, wireless DCC is a dream come true. I use wireless EasyDCC on my Siskiyou Line and my op crew loves it!

Been using DCC since 1993 and haven't looked back. There are some considerations with using DCC, especially on a larger layout, that make your life simpler. Will be covering those in a clinic at the National in Seattle this July.

Or if you can't make the clinic, will be publishing this material and more in a series of videos ... see: http://model-train-videos.com .

One tidbit you can find on my web site for making your DCC layout more "short resistant" is here: http://siskiyou.railfan.net/wiring.html

[NevinW]

I switched to DCC last year and will never go back to DC. I would leave the hobby and go fly model airplanes first. DCC finally makes a locomotive behave like a real one. The ability to run more than one engine on the same track and double head them with any jerryrigged set-ups like cut off switches has made running trains a real pleasure. With the new Lenz decoders with the ability to run through dirty track, I think we will finally what we have always wanted- freedom to run an engine like a real engine. The sound systems are just an added bonus. - Nevin

[Anonymous]

Other than all the benefits of DCC over DC mentioned by everyone thus far, what is tipping me 'off the fence' into DCC is my wife who said that " being able to operate a locomotive (as opposed to controlling a layout throwing toggles, not being able to operate helpers realistically or switching yards, etc.,) would get her involved in 'working on the railroad' with me and not just a spectator when I dragged her down to the basement to watch the trains go around. . .I've been away from the hobby for approx 10 yrs and have been without a layout for much longer than that. Now I understand just how Rip Van Winkle felt when he woke up from his 20 yr nap. Boy has the hobby evolved! I am in the planning stages now (already started framing RR room in basement) for a 24 X 32 point to point , single track main bridge route w/ a branch line and quarries as online industry set in the late '40s. I plan on having at least one hidden staging yard and two interchanges. I don't care at this point about sound, although that is more a matter of finances. Probably only 2 or 3 trains will be operated at same time, though helpers and double heading will be common practice. Hopefully DCC will follow the trends of most consumer electronics in that as capability increases, prices decrease. It's good that there seems to be a fairly well defined industry standard supported by the NMRA. I for one do not need or want a super sophisticated DCC system and am hoping that in a year or so when I'm at the stage where I'll be able to run some trains, there will be some basic, but capable systems that meet my needs, or even some low mileage pre-owned systems available for sale (or barter, since I have a woodworking business and make hardwood display cases, model railroad benchwork and just about anything else out of wood - sorry about the 'shameless' plug). Any recommendations on a particular system that would meet my needs, as well as a decent book that "de-mistifies" DCC for non-techies types, would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

sorry, but at present, DCC is just too rich for my wallet. Maybe if the prices start to decrease (LOL) I will buy one , but if I figured right, it would cost me around $450 to get a system, and the decoders[:0][wow]

[AntonioFP45]

MaineCentral229,

If this helps, quality brand DCC decoders can be purchased from Litchfield Station and Tony's Trains in the $20 range. Prices have really come down in the last 2 years!

I'll be pursuing TCS decoders myself.

[:D][8D][:)][8)][swg][tup]

[randybc2003]

I rember the ASTRACK system of the early '60's, and thought "how prototypical". Trouble was, : expensive, dificult to understand (i thought), BIG (it seemed nothing short of O would swollow it), and somewhat limited. (only 16 channels, etc. I was out of the hobby (more or less) in the early '80's when CTC-16 was published. When I saw DCC, for HO and N yet, I thought: "Now I can run helpers, Snowplows, and switching manuvers prototype fashion."
I bought the Digitrax Chief. Several reasons:
Localy available. Several hobby shops supported it.
Local Experience: Three clubs in the area; two used IT. (the third still may use DC Blocks - I Think)
Seemed to be the most flexable. One thing Computers taught me. Get the biggest, strongest, most powerful you can afford. It will be obsolete shortly. Also, you may not think the "bells and whistles" are important, but you will get accostemed to them.
Two Knobs. I now push my rotary snow plow around with my big steamer. They both have decoders, and I can control both of them at the same time. I have other plans for another rotary and steamer cooking in the back of my mind.
I joined one of the clubs, and regularrly operate my locos and rolling stock on DCC. One of these days I am going to MU something.

[rogerhensley]

I have a 'mature' layout with a number of older locos that are not DCC friendly. I have no inention of changing as I will not scrap the equipment that I have in operation.

Now, that said, I highly recommend DCC for anyone just starting or beginning a new layout. There is so much more that can be done with DCC that DC is no longer a good option for new layouts.

[AntonioFP45]

Roger,

What type of older locos do you have? If they're equipped with open frame motors, there are plenty of low-amp replacement motors available for O, HO, and N scales now. Several of my units are over 20 years old but I will remotor them, one unit at a time as my budget allows.

[Anonymous]

im gonna begin building a 4x8 HO layout hopefully by the end of summer. Im also wanting it to be some thing to be able to just relax and watch trains go by, then switch one or two cars then let the train run some more.

theres not really room to have more than 1 train running on a 4x8 layout, so for that reason, im not gonna invest into DCC unless i see Bachmanns E-Z command at my hobby shop. In my opinion that would be the only DCC system worth it for my layout, since they will be selling it, along with a engine that has a decoder in it.

but for only one engine, or maybe even two engines in the future. DCC wont be worth it.

[Anonymous]

I'm contemplating buying one of the new Bachmann DCC setups when they come out - it'll be able to address 9 DCC locos, 1 analog loco, and will be able to work with other systems as a slave controller unit later on. Decoders will be very cheap by the sounds of it, as will the control unit, though it's all still fully DCC compatible.

[fmilhaupt]

To quote a buddy of mine, "I'd go back to Baker couplers before I'd give up command control."

My friends and I like to run timetable and train order-- there's enough to think about just running the train and handling paperwork that having to concern ourselves with power-routing controls would seriously detract from the experience.

I really dislike doing wiring work on the layout. But, I've found that I quite enjoy installing decoders and don't mind engineering the lighting arrangements (all three of the roads I model used Gyralights...). For this reason, DCC has been a good fit for me.

[randybc2003]

YES. I find that in planning layout, I am THINKING like a RR engineer. (trackwork, not loco - although that is comming.)
Existing layout is DC, but I have a "DCC Cab". Local club - DCC. Digitrax decoders work either DC or DCC. Also, DC locos can work on Digitrax DCC. I can MU/Helper my consists, and control my Rotary Snow Plow along with my (pushing) steamer.
Slowly converting all locos to DCC. Remoter and gear as necessary.
Once you've tried it, you won't go back.
Randy

[Anonymous]

Where are you at DOUG?

[robengland]

Why do several responses here say the Zephyr won't scale? That's what boosters are for. I'm not aware of any constraint on scaling up the Zephyr

[IRONROOSTER]

I'll probably go dcc wireless, if I get more space for a bigger layout. Right now my 11x18' layout doesn't need it and I'd rather spend the $$$ on some more locos and buildings.
Enjoy
Paul

[Anonymous]

I am running a bigboy and a y6 mallet
is there any one who can tell me a place
an inexspensive decoader for them.
I love whatm dcc dose it is quite neat.
who has agood but easy sytem.

[AntonioFP45]

Hello Deanbrunnet,

Click on this:

www.LitchfieldStation.com/s/i/ho/hods/hods.html

Decoder prices are listed. Very reasonable. [:)][:D][8D]

By the way, consider updating your profile and filling in the "Bio" and "Hobbies" categories. This will help modelers in the future respond better to you if they have an idea of your interests and age group.[;)][4:-)][C):-)][tup]

Hope this helps, Amigo!

[Anonymous]

Eventually I would like to get into it. But for right now I'm still using the old DC method. Though I love operating my trains, most of my enjoyment comes from the construction side of the hobbie, the contructing of the mountains, canyons, water, buildings, sidewalks, roads etc. I find it very relaxing.

Georgia Boy

[Anonymous]

Atoio fp45
dean brunnet here with a word of thanks for the web
site it will help me grately. this is one reason I like mrr, everybody
will try to help each other, if I run into a problem I know I can come
here and have my prolem solved,thank you agin and keep up the
good everyone.

[AntonioFP45]

DeannBrunnet,

Hello to you, and very glad that this was helpful!

Looking forward to your future posts!

[jrbernier]

I have noticed that several folks talk about the expense of converting all of their engine 'fleet' to DCC(97 engines, etc...) 10 years ago I had over 100 engines, now I have under 30. The reason is not financial(like lost my job, divorce, etc...). I got into DCC about 10 years ago and started converting the engines I really needed to run my railroad. The plan was to convert ALL my engines. What I realized was that a lot of those other engines hardly ever get run(even in DC). The plan then changed to build more display cases to view them. Eventually, I started selling off the older engines that were not detailed as well, or there were newer/better models available(Athearn vs P2K).
I now have 23 DCC equipped engines(3 with sound), and the rest are mainly display models and have no decoders. Since I only really need 11 engines to 'run' the railroad, a lot of the DCC engines are in the display case as well.
I suspect a lot of folks have engines they 'just had to buy', but never run them or even take them out of the box. A lot of older 'brass' would need a lot of gearbox/motor work just to get them to run on good DC, let alone adding a decoder! I have 3 brass engines left in my collection, and really have no to plans to convert them(2 are half painted, one is still in natural brass). DCC has made me think about what I really 'need' for my layout, and I have more fun running trains. For example, I used to use two GP9's on road freights, mainly because a single GP9 could not pull the 'hill' with a full road freight. Now I use a single GP9 and have a 'helper' engine at the bottom of the grade. The helper operation is so simple; never could do it very well with DC cab control.

Jim Bernier

[jwmurrayjr]

After 20+ years away from MRR, relatively affordable DCC is what got me back into MRR. I love it! [:)]

[aluesch]

QUOTE: Originally posted by orsonroy
I could care less about route control, signalling, automation, or computer interfaces, but I can't get a starter set that'll crank out 10-20 amps.

Yes you can get a 16A system from Zimo. And even though you have no interrest in all the features you mentioned they are still there, just in case you change your mind later like so many others [;)]

Regards,
Art
http://www.mrsonline.net/

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jrbernier

I have noticed that several folks talk about the expense of converting all of their engine 'fleet' to DCC(97 engines, etc...) 10 years ago I had over 100 engines, now I have under 30. The reason is not financial(like lost my job, divorce, etc...). I got into DCC about 10 years ago and started converting the engines I really needed to run my railroad. The plan was to convert ALL my engines. What I realized was that a lot of those other engines hardly ever get run(even in DC). The plan then changed to build more display cases to view them. Eventually, I started selling off the older engines that were not detailed as well, or there were newer/better models available(Athearn vs P2K).
I now have 23 DCC equipped engines(3 with sound), and the rest are mainly display models and have no decoders. Since I only really need 11 engines to 'run' the railroad, a lot of the DCC engines are in the display case as well.
I suspect a lot of folks have engines they 'just had to buy', but never run them or even take them out of the box. A lot of older 'brass' would need a lot of gearbox/motor work just to get them to run on good DC, let alone adding a decoder! I have 3 brass engines left in my collection, and really have no to plans to convert them(2 are half painted, one is still in natural brass). DCC has made me think about what I really 'need' for my layout, and I have more fun running trains. For example, I used to use two GP9's on road freights, mainly because a single GP9 could not pull the 'hill' with a full road freight. Now I use a single GP9 and have a 'helper' engine at the bottom of the grade. The helper operation is so simple; never could do it very well with DC cab control.

Jim Bernier

10-4 on that Jim!

I actually have fewer locomotives than I did a decade or so ago. I'm excited about building an HO layout, but I plan on having 20 or less powered units total. As much as I like various locos and paint schemes, I doubt if I would run all of the units regularly, and some would wind up with "stiff gears" and sporadic electrical contact from years of storage. (Talk about "Sputtering and Growls!") This is the problem with some of my old Athearns and Atlas units that I've had stored since the late 1980s. On my Athearns only the FP45s and SCL U-Boat will be converted to DCC/sound. The FP45 has the advantage of having a decent amount of internal space.

If I get new locomotives, they'll very likely be P2Ks and P1ks. It seems that the Proto series units have become the "Athearn of the 21st century". Reasonably priced, nice looking, heavy, tough, and actually quieter than Athearns. From what my good friend tells me, DCC/Sound installations in these units can be challenging, though as the weights take up quite a bit of room.

Peace out!

[Anonymous]

My local club uses DCC, so I installed some decoders in a couple engines, after I got tired of waiting my turn to use 00. I loved DCC a lot. We used a Digitrax Chief, and it was really good. And a lot of fun to use. But alas for my 1 engine switching layout I'll be using DC. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me to go DCC for a one engine, one person layout. If I had more operators, I'll go for DCC.

Alvie.

[dano99a]

WOW, who brought this thread back to life?? Still, it's good to see so many supporting the DCC wave.

[jfugate]

I started using Command Control back in 1990, and switched to DCC in 1993 ... which means I've been using DCC on the Siskiyou Line for 11 years now.

Command Control is the way to go, and I would not use anything else. With wireless DCC, things go to even the next level -- you literally assign the throttle to your locomotive lashup and then go! A dream come true!

I talked about my experiences with DCC over the last 11 years and what I've learned at my clinic in Seattle last month. If you'd like to watch the clinic on video, you can get it here at: http://model-trains-video.com.

I firmly believe the day is quickly approaching when DCC will be like radio control for model airplanes. Who would think of building and flying a model airplane without radio control? And who will think of building and operating a model train layout without DCC? It's almost here ...

[tatans]

dcc,dcc.dcc. What is dcc?? am I missing something? you mean to tell me I have a layout that actually runs without dcc, how can this be? what is the next expensive gimmick thay you MUST have? is the next wave of electronic "stuff"
(in the next 3 months) going to antiquate dcc. I've got to get back to scratchbuild my $1.25 yard sale tank car and take my mind off 5 pages of dcc.

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

dcc,dcc.dcc. What is dcc?? am I missing something? you mean to tell me I have a layout that actually runs without dcc, how can this be? what is the next expensive gimmick thay you MUST have? is the next wave of electronic "stuff"
(in the next 3 months) going to antiquate dcc. I've got to get back to scratchbuild my $1.25 yard sale tank car and take my mind off 5 pages of dcc.

No must have to it. Will have is more like it. The locos you buy will have DCC decoders in them out of the box.

Having tried to do prototype operations on a regular DC layout and also operating on a wireless DCC layout, I can tell you which one is easier to operate like the prototype.

Sure, you can run trains on a straight DC layout, but to operate without having to give even one tiny thought to how the train's getting its power, its going to be DCC.

So enjoy you DC layout while it lasts. One day it will be as common as non-radio equipped operating model airplanes.

[Anonymous]

You betcha! It totally reformed and enabled our operations at our club, generating more purchases of new locomotives in a short time than ever before, just 'cause there's so much new stuff out there with great detail, high quality, suitable for installation of not only DCC operating decoders, but sound as well. It's like any other phenomenon....once it gets up a "head of steam" (pun intended) it seems to grow by leaps and bounds. It makes operating so much more fun that it gets me away from the work bench and back onto a throttle again.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

dcc,dcc.dcc. What is dcc?? am I missing something? you mean to tell me I have a layout that actually runs without dcc, how can this be? what is the next expensive gimmick thay you MUST have? is the next wave of electronic "stuff"
(in the next 3 months) going to antiquate dcc. I've got to get back to scratchbuild my $1.25 yard sale tank car and take my mind off 5 pages of dcc.

Tatans, Why the sarcasm?
No "gimmick-ery" involved. Just a feature that allows modelers to run and enjoy model locomotives with more freeedom and realism. DCC has been standardized by the NMRA, is an adopted technology. As advances are made, the equipment will still be "backward compatible". So you won't have to run out and keep buying equipment every time there is an improvement.

BTW: I was very "anti-dcc" myself. Once I saw locomotives running independently of each other, super smooth running due to the continuous track voltage, and the features offered by DCC Sound; I started reading about it and had a change of heart.

[Anonymous]

Old Farts arise. I built the CTC-16e following the series published in MR. I still use this system and find it works just fine for operating the layout. I am not going to spring for the new DCC equipment just yet. I am trying to find a way to get the high zoot sound systems available today to work with my system. Big problem is I am not into electronics sufficiently to be able to determine if what I seek is even feasible. I am getting there. Taking night classes at community college to learn about electronics. Good information to be learning, but just might be a heartbreaker if I cannot get sound to work with my system. If things don't work out, then and only then would I consider the purchase of the newer edition stuff. By the way, I do have the steam chuff sound. What I am looking for is the bell, whistle, compressor and brakes squealing sounds. I do hope I can keep the present system with upgraded sound, I have grown to understand it and can even do some trouble shooting on those rare occasions a gremlin comes to visit.

Tom

[AntonioFP45]

Tpaulsen,

Salute to ya!

I remember reading about the CTC-16 in MRR back in the 80s with Dr. Richard Kamm and MRR Staffer Keith Gutierezz (is Keith still around?). This was the foundation that led to today's DCC. There was even a PBS show called "ALL ABOUT TRAINS" back in the early 90s. Doc Kamm demonstrated a layout run by the CTC system.

Contact [e-mail] and see if Bruce can give you any pointers.

Hope this helps!

[jfugate]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
I remember reading about the CTC-16 in MRR back in the 80s with Dr. Richard Kamm and MRR Staffer Keith Gutierezz (is Keith still around?).

Antonio:

What planet have you been on? Keith G. is the brains behind CVP, RailCommand, and EasyDCC. See: http://www.cvpusa.com ...

CVP had the largest DCC booth of just about anyone at the National Train Show in Seattle last month, and Keith was there in the flesh. They are pioneering battery powered DCC with their AirWire900 product -- you can see Keith explaining it on video here: http://model-trains-video.com . So he's certainly "still around" and still pioneering in the hobby!

P.S. Also, I don't believe Keith was ever on the payroll at MR. Just a frequent contributor with ground-breaking electronic project articles. I believe he's an EE for Texas Instruments.

[AntonioFP45]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jfugate

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45
I remember reading about the CTC-16 in MRR back in the 80s with Dr. Richard Kamm and MRR Staffer Keith Gutierezz (is Keith still around?).

Antonio:

What planet have you been on? Keith G. is the brains behind CVP, RailCommand, and EasyDCC. See: http://www.cvpusa.com ...

Hey guy! Hmmmmm..I've been on the messed up planet Earth in the 21st century where:
[1] UP, MTH, QSI, and Lionel either sue or get sued
[2] HO & N scale locomotives are sold as "Limited Runs"
[3] Where many modelers and railfans think graffitti on freight cars is cool !

Man! Wish I could "time warp" back.

Seriously, I haven't kept up with who's who in model railroading as I had stopped subscribing to MRR about 1993. I started again in 2003. I'm very glad that Keith is still contributing. I still remember the picture of him in a MRR magazine holding a microfphone against the engine compartment of an idling Union Pacific SD40-2 as he was involved in advancing the sound technology for modeling. Is Dr. Kamn still around?

Thanks for the heads up!

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 

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