Rant: I expected more from Campbells--fix pic

[ho modern modeler]

......but the shingles are delicious!!!!

[sfcouple]

When I was a kid, Willie Mays was the guy we all looked up to. The guy could do anything. He could catch a ball on a dead run away from the plate, spin on one foot and throw the ball back to the infield so quick runners couldn't advance. He'd would spend hours after the game signing autographs and talking the game with kids. 

Now we got Barry Bonds, Willie's godson. Barry is mean to kids.

Some pros help where-ever they can. Others just thump their chest and say how great they are.

SpaceMouse,

You are absolutely right with your baseball analogy, I've watched both of them play for many years and your perceptions are very accurate.  In fact, Barry Bonds is (was) so rude that he wouldn't show up for team photos and was not that well liked or respected off the playing field.

Your second point is well taken, not only will pros help where ever they can, they will explain their skills in a way that is easy for one to understand.  A truly talented individual, who truly understands his subject, should be able and willing to explain his expertise in a simple and straightforward manner without resorting to jargon or sarcasm.     

Good luck with the Campbell Kit and I would love to see a photo of the finished structure,

Wayne  

[HEdward]

......but the shingles are delicious!!!!

 

Was that another soup joke or are you part termite?

[jackn2mpu]

The one thing I have learned over the years is patience. It was something that I aquired over time. Sometimes I just need to walk away and return another day.

I'm doing that with the Downtown Deco Grimm's Funeral Home kit I have. When I first opened it and checked the parts I was severely depressed with the quality of the castings (little chunks missing here and there, etc. with no loose pieces floating about in the packaging). This may well be on purpose by the maunfacturer, I don't know. What I do is take hydrocal and patch what I want to patch and let it sit, sometimes for weeks at an end. It's one of those things I really have to have my head in the right space to work on it.

Granted one expects value for money spent, and some of the 'craftsman' kits are worth it, especially the research some manufacturers put into them. Good pictures and instructions really help here. Ditto for templates or drawings of same. When a product has defects in it I'll try and make it work somehow. That's happened with some of the Micro Scale Models kits I have. Fine kits, but sometimes the instructions, drawings and pictures don't match. I'll fix it and then I'll have a building that no one else has even though they may build the same kit.

[NevinW]

There is a steep learning curve to these kits. I know the first few I ever tried were disasters. Then you start figuring out what tools work best and how to cut some thing without breaking it. And how to paint it....... Before you know it, you have one completed and it looks so much better than any plastic shake the box kit. I did a small FOS Scale models kit for a coal distributor last year. The whole thing was less than 3 inches long but it really popped out when it was put on the layout. Keep at it and be patient. - Nevin

[C&O Fan]

I opened my first Campbell's Kit, the Scarlet Slipper. I spent 2 hours cutting the windows and doors. Not only were the cuts crooked and shallow but they walls were so fragile that half of them broke during cutting.

Oh, I'll be able to save them. But next time I'm considering replacing the walls with styrene.

Like I said, for that price, I expected more.  

Chip,

You know, many of these Campbell kits have been sitting on the shelf for years.  The boxes are anything but airtight; the wood probably dried out on you.

I bet a "fresher" kit would have cut more easily without breaking.

I built a Campbell kit when I was in HO.  I also built an American Model Builders kit and scratchbuilt a number of buildings from basswood; I found the Campbell kit no more difficult than either the AMB or scratchbuilding...  ...hence my guess that you got a "stale" kit.

 

Dave is right on the money with this one !

last time i did one i spread out the pieces in the kit and ran our humidifier over night

BIG difference in the way it cut

[sfcouple]

SpaceMouse,

After reading the 2 posts from Dave and Terry my fading memory got a boost and I too remember a recent problem with a Campbell Kit constructed last year.  This Kit was their "Freight Platform" and was very easy to assemble and did not have any windows to cut out.  However, it was sitting in my "to do box" for a few decades and there were some minor issues that I attributed to the age of the kit.  

So hang in there with your kit and like I said before, please post a picture of the finished structure,

Wayne  

[Dave Vollmer]

Interesting...

My suggestion was that neither Chip nor Campbells was at fault (i.e., the kit may have dried out), and that was the thread killer.  Seems it was far livelier when it was poor manufacturing versus poor modeling.  Why is that?

Sometimes I wonder if these fora thrive more on personal rancor and controversy than on simple explanations and modeling techniques.

[Paul3]

Dave V.,
I've been on the 'net over 12 years, and what you said is exactly right.  The more livelier discussions are always tinged with controversy and/or person rancor.  It's like the old newspaper line, "If it bleeds, it leads."

People don't pay much attention to good news, but give them some kind of bad news and they'll always be back for more.  Fires, scandals, wars, crime, natural disasters, etc., these stories can go on for weeks.  Meanwhile, "good news" gets quickly buried in the next news cycle.  It's just the way people are.

Same goes for internet discussions.  Without some kind of contradictory statements, a modeling thread will quickly drop off the front page.  But if you add someone taking pot shots at the topic of choice, you'll get a thread that will be active for days on end.  A debate needs conflict to survive, and if there's only agreement you won't get much debate.  For example, if you started a thread tomorrow about how good Kadee couplers are and how to install them on just about anything, it would get a few comments but would quickly sink to obscurity when the next "the future of the hobby is doooooomed!" thread pops up.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

 

[Dave Vollmer]

When I work w/ wood, I always pop in a fresh #11 blade just to be sure.

Chip could have popped back in and said "yep, the wood was very brittle and dry," or "no, Dave, you're out to lunch; this wood was fresh!"  It's not as "interesting" I guess as watching CNJ, who I assume has never met Chip or seen his work in person, call all of his modeling "questionable" after Chip has a bad experience with a kit. 

Rudeness makes for more posts.  Modeling apparently does not.  Again, I am reminded why I go elsewhere on the 'net for modeling, and come here for the banter.

[Dave Vollmer]

 It's not as "interesting" I guess as watching CNJ, who I assume has never met Chip or seen his work in person, call all of his modeling "questionable" after Chip has a bad experience with a kit. 

Rudeness makes for more posts.  Modeling apparently does not.  Again, I am reminded why I go elsewhere on the 'net for modeling, and come here for the banter.

I must have missed that, from the pics Chip has posted I would guess he is a better modeller then most here.  Far from questionable in my opinion.  You want to see rudeness on the net?  Go to any street racing forum, you even get to type all the bad words without these things, ***** poping up, lol. 

Check the first page; you'll see it.

Eh, I know it's worse elsewhere...  but that doesn't make ill-will right.  The Internet is simply a reflection of (and probably amplification of) society's ills.  Some people feel better about themselves when they can point out how they're better than someone else.  You'd think we'd have a more mature, enlightened group than most, and perhaps we do, but it's not without its share of mean spirit.

Oh well.  It's nothing I can change.

[jktrains]

When I work w/ wood, I always pop in a fresh #11 blade just to be sure.

Chip could have popped back in and said "yep, the wood was very brittle and dry," or "no, Dave, you're out to lunch; this wood was fresh!"  It's not as "interesting" I guess as watching CNJ, who I assume has never met Chip or seen his work in person, call all of his modeling "questionable" after Chip has a bad experience with a kit. 

Rudeness makes for more posts.  Modeling apparently does not.  Again, I am reminded why I go elsewhere on the 'net for modeling, and come here for the banter.

Dave et al,

While I hate to barge in on this, I'd suggest you go back and re-read the first page.  The first shot came from Chip.  CNJ's first response didn't call all of Chip's modeling questionable, he pointed out that these are craftsman kits and not shake the box styrene kits; that they take some time and experience to properly build.  Chip's response was rude - basically telling CNJ to get off his "high horse" and calling him stuck up.  It was only after Chip's rude comment/reply that CNJ questioned his modeling skills.  Quite frankly I can see why he would do so, especially when looking at his 'fix' pics on page with all the glue everywhere.  The way the fix was done doesn't come right out and say "craftsman" quality work.

This was Chip's first experience with a Campbell kit and his first reaction to having a problem was to blame it on poor quality from the manufacturer, not his own lack experience with similar kits.  As evidenced by the many following posts, many people said that their first attempt at such a kit was not good either but that with some experience under their belt subsequent builds were much improved.  As with many things in this hobby, you can't expect perfection the first time out.  And as with this forum, you can't expect everyone to follow your level enlightenment.

[chutton01]

Modeling apparently does not.  Again, I am reminded why I go elsewhere on the 'net for modeling, and come here for the banter.

Actually I find the modelling info on this forum pretty decent - sometimes it veers off course, but usually it's rather good.
Wondering where else you get your modeling info from (Message board-wise); railroad.net has been rather quiet on it's scale modeling forum lately, and usenet...forget it.

[Dave Vollmer]

That's true, JK...  I think both guys were a bit out of line.

I get pretty tired of the "high horse" comment.  Happens whenever someone suggests how someone could have done somthing better.  But I also don't think CNJ needed to attack Chip's modeling, thereby getting down from the horse to beat it to death.  Addressing the "high horse" comment would have been sufficient.

And no, I'm not exactly the beacon of enlightenment.  I'm not (nor do I want to be) the trains.com Hall Monitor.  But good gosh, look at the play a thread like this gets versus any modeling technique or project threads I've ever started.  Really makes you wonder...

I'm starting to feel silly anyway since Chip has apparently moved on to bigger and better things.

[Blue Flamer]

Two years ago I overheard a kid at a show say, "It's just a box full of little sticks!" when looking in a Campbells box. I'm not that old, but I remember when the kits were a solid block of wood that you had to cut the little sticks from, the instructions were Latin, the LHS was 20 miles away, snow was chest deep, up hill.....

Both ways? 

Blue Flamer. 

[Blue Flamer]

My goodness. You young whipper-snappers don't know how easy you have it  with your stamped out kits and your laser cut kits. Back in the VERY EARLY  '50's, (that's 1950's  not 1850's), my Dad & I built a balsa flying model of a Cesna airplane with rubber band power. The wingspan was 48". All the internal framing for the body and the wing ribs came PRINTED on sheets of balsa wood and all the outside framing was individual strips of balsa. It took all winter to cut out all the individual pieces and glue everything together on the full size plans and assemble them. After it was all together and the tissue paper skin put on and sealed, it was balanced. On the first nice day of spring, we took it down to the park to test fly it. Wonder of wonders, it flew perfectly for a couple of hundred feet and landed safely. It flew on and off for several years with only minor repairs to tears in the fabric until it was irreparably damaged during a house move.

As a 12 year old, I will never forget my Dad teaching me the patience to cut out all the little notches around the outside of the body framing members that the 1/8"X1/8" stringers fit snugly into and glued in place. That patience and the striving for accuracy and doing it right helped me many times through my working career.

Thanks Dad.

By the way. That kit cost over $15.00 and  Dad was earning $28.50 a week.

Blue Flamer. 

[SpaceMouse]

Sorry I didn't pop back in after Dave's post. I have actually been fairly busy. Although someone earlier meantioned the dry wood and I commented back then.

I would also say that I did make multiple passes with a brand new #11 blade only increasing in force when nothing seemed to be happening. It is not like I rushed into the job.

Now I admit that I should have taken more restraint with CNJ, except that anytime I post a comment about modeling of any sort, he takes the same shot at me and has for a couple years now. This time, it just ticked me off more than most. I should have taken the same tact as I did when Jk made his multiple comments this thead which was to ignore them.

 

[markpierce]

Except for its corrugated siding/roofing and wood-simulated shingle-strips, I've never been a fan of Campbell kits.  Several decades ago, I found that its wood products, particularly the walls, to be made of poor-quality wood (soft, "pithy", can't hold a sharp angle, etc.)  My most successful Campbell kit was a V&T rectangular water tank, with cardboard sides and wooden support timbers.

I do obtain satisfaction assembling "wood stick" kits from other manufacturers, as for instance a speeder shed and a wood cutter's shed, where one assembles 2x4 framing and individual boards to construct the walls, and an HOn3 wedge plow similarly manufactured which took me a summer of Thursday evenings to complete.

Mark

[alco49]

To expect more, you need to develop some actual modeling skills, which to date your modeling  leaves in a highly questionable state, not blame your shortcoming on a long established manufacturer.

CNJ831

In other words, he's calling you a dabbler.

One should hope so! Say, did that horse grow 10 feet in one minute? I'm sorry, this might sound mean, but I do not sees why you choose to spit acid at Spacemouse.

[WP 3020]

Hey Blue, I heard that some of the early (way before my time) kits didn't come with the wood but had a seed for planting the tree that you would get the wood from. Talk about learning patience! Sounds like you were lucky in more than one way. I can't imagine spending all that time and then the plane not flying well or destroyed in a crash on the first flight. Some of my friends tried building some plane kits that their Dads had squirreled away for 20years. They were gas powered free-flights but they couldn't get them to fly worth anything. Looking back, they never did consider where the plane would've ended up or how they would get it back if they did fly OK. Good Times! A couple of years back I kick myself for not picking up what was probably the last wood Nscale car kit produced. It was, NO KIDDING, a 50' high cube plug door Rail Box. Talk about a box of sticks.

[steinjr]

That's true, JK...  I think both guys were a bit out of line.

I get pretty tired of the "high horse" comment.  Happens whenever someone suggests how someone could have done somthing better. 

 

 See any word of advice on techniques in CNJ's first post ? I don't. Basically he says something like (paraphrased): "There is nothing wrong with the kit. Skilled modellers have not trouble whatsoever with these kits. The kit you have there is one of the simplest Campbell kits."

 I obviously cannot know what CNJ intended to communicate. But the way I read him, his post was not advice on how to do it better. It was just a way of implying that the original poster is inferior to Real Modellers, since Real Modellers would have no trouble with these kits.

 In contrast, helpful advice gathered from the five pages of this thread can be summarized as:

• Cover the back of the wood with tape before cutting to prevent splintering
• Use a fresh #11 blade and score gently many times instead of using more force
• Old wooden kits that have dried out in the box might be "rehumidified"
• Muir models wooden kits might be easier to build than Campbell models
  

 Answers from Chip indicate that 

• he was using a fresh blade and first tried gently scoring before increasing pressure
• the wood being brittle may very well have been part of the original problem,
  
• he hadn't seen anything about using tape on the back in the instructions,
  
• he would remember the tape on back trick for later
• he is taking steps to fix the problem by gluing paper to the back of the broken walls.

  Unless anyone else has any more helpful advice on techniques for Campbell kits, maybe it is now time to let this thread die a natural death, without any more sniping from anyone about the relative skill levels of their horses ? 

 Grin,
 Stein

 

[chutton01]

A couple of years back I kick myself for not picking up what was probably the last wood Nscale car kit produced. It was, NO KIDDING, a 50' high cube plug door Rail Box. Talk about a box of sticks.

In the past Walthers listed a manufacturer of wood freight car kits - OK, makes sense, except at least one of the kits was of a Tri-Level auto-rack. Now, wood representing wood (as in stock cars or reefers etc), makes perfect sense - but at that time using wood to represent steel just boogled my mind (and I later read that that kit, and similar ones, were indeed nightmares, as you had to sand and seal the wood pieces over and over again until they were smooth enough (no grain showing) to represent metal - no thanks, I'd rather stick with plastic or metal or even cardstock (the other choices back then).

[Dave Vollmer]

Unless anyone else has any more helpful advice on techniques for Campbell kits, maybe it is now time to let this thread die a natural death, without any more sniping from anyone about the relative skill levels of their horses ? 

 Grin,
 Stein

Actually, yes.

I have a humidor for cigars.  I got into the habit of smoking cigars during the war, although now if I smoke one inj a month it's a lot.  Nevertheless, I've found that dried out cigars can be brought back to life with a few vigorous re-chargings of the humidifier in the humidor.

Small humidors can be had for less than $50 online, and can be used to keep your modeling wood fresh.  Oh, and if someone gives you cigars, you have a place to keep them too.

Now how's that for helpful?

[tattooguy67]

Roses are red, SpaceMouse is blue!

He bought him a kit and thought it would be true!

what he found was shallow cuts,brittle wood and

windows unstraight!

well you can imagine this left him in quite a state!

he went to his computer to share his insights!

and oh my goodness that started a fight

From aloft on the high horses the scorn it did rain!

til the comments they did hurt his brain!

"your skills are subpar, your cuts are to hard!

 "what were you thinking, your skull is filled with lard"!

now some of the tips were delivered with tact!

"next time do this, and never do that"!

and my gosh don't use a wiffle ball bat"!

what i think Chip was trying to say was,

" I expected better quality, good cuts et. al."!

"has this happened to others, is this the norm"!

what he got was some help some derision and some scorn!

and that after all is about average on the forum!

"if it bleeds it leads" it was said with insight!

how sad and how true we all love a good fight!

now i must end this post, yes i must flee!

to another thread to see what trouble i can be!!!

Caboose.

Chuck

[ShadowNix]

Chip,

I haven't read the whole thread, but if you are REALLY disappointed with the quality of the kit, I would contact the owner, Duncan.  He responds to phone calls VERY well...email doesn't seem to work as well.... He is very responsive and fixed a problem I had without delay.  Good luck.

Brian

[Don Z]

TattooGuy,

That is without a doubt absolutely the best post I have ever read while here.....excuse me while I go wipe the laughter tears from my eyes...

Don Z.

[4merroad4man]

TattooGuy:  THAT is hilarious!  What a fitting end to this thread.......