I opened my first Campbell's Kit, the Scarlet Slipper. I spent 2 hours cutting the windows and doors. Not only were the cuts crooked and shallow but they walls were so fragile that half of them broke during cutting.
Oh, I'll be able to save them. But next time I'm considering replacing the walls with styrene.
Like I said, for that price, I expected more.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
These kits were state-of-the-art 40-50 years ago.... Think about it........... Appreciate the newer laser kits!
Mark
Chip,
I've heard others say that the tooling for the Campbell kits hasn't changed in many, many years; which may explain the crooked cuts you ran into. That 40+ year old Alexander Scale Models depot kit you sent me a while back had some similar problems but they were fixable, too. Thankfully, the walls were anything but fragile. Even so, I still made sure that I stiffened up the corners (where the walls meet) with 4 x 4 dimensional lumber.
I've put three craftsman kits together so far. I can't think of a single one of them that didn't need at least a little filing, sanding, shimming, or squaring to make things fit or right. I'm beginning to come to the conclusion that it's just part of the fun and "entertainment value" of putting one of these kits together.
Let me also add that those three craftsman kits...are my favorite structures on my layout. Funny how things are like that, huh?
Tom
https://tstage9.wixsite.com/nyc-modeling
Time...It marches on...without ever turning around to see if anyone is even keeping in step.
Funny how I was able to assemble several Campbell kits when I first got back into the hobby without similar problems. As I recall, the window and door openings were partially cut out, one only had to cut through the remaining sections and/or re-cut the originals. Using new X-Acto #11 blades did the work for me. I believe the instructions suggest backing up the openings with masking tape on the inside to prevent splitting of the walls, which I did and it worked for me. Perhaps their kits have changed over the years? Or........?
Bob Boudreau
CANADA
Visit my model railroad photography website: http://sites.google.com/site/railphotog/
Dr. Frankendiesel aka Scott Running BearSpace Mouse for president!15 year veteran fire fighterCollector of Apple //e'sRunning Bear EnterprisesHistory Channel Club life member.beatus homo qui invenit sapientiam
Bob,
Tape would have been a good idea. If it was mentioned in the instructions I missed it. But to say they were partially cut, I would say scored. The cuts barely penetrated the shiplap siding. I was using a brand new #11 for the occasion. And even with the new blade the force to penetrate was considerable.
Perhaps it's my lack of skill. But I've build several Muir Kits without similar incidents.
Mark,
I'd love some laser cut Old West buildings.
Tom,
It'll look good. It's just that next time I run into stamp cuts like these, I'll probably just buy a sheet of styrene and replace them.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Incidentally, the Scarlet Slipper is one of the simpler Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built these kits down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit.
I'll add that those who are troubled by the level of skills required for assembling a Campbell kit would do well to steer clear of any of the high-end, quality kits, many of which are truly challenging to the hobbyist (like FSM, FOS, et al.). These often really are little more than a box of sticks and instructions but the manufacturer has assumed the purchaser has the degree of true modeling skills compatible to the challenge they present.
CNJ831
CNJ831 wrote: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built them down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit. I'll add that those who are troubled by the level of skills required for assembling a Campbell kit would do well to steer clear of any of the high-end, quality kits, many of which are truly challenging to the hobbyist (like FSM, FOS, et al.). These often really are little more than a box of sticks and instructions but the manufacturer has assumed the purchaser has the degree of true modeling skills compatible to the challenge they present.CNJ831
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built them down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit.
How's the altitude up there? I've never seen a horse so tall.
The finished product will speak for itself. I just expected more.
SpaceMouse wrote: CNJ831 wrote: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built them down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit. I'll add that those who are troubled by the level of skills required for assembling a Campbell kit would do well to steer clear of any of the high-end, quality kits, many of which are truly challenging to the hobbyist (like FSM, FOS, et al.). These often really are little more than a box of sticks and instructions but the manufacturer has assumed the purchaser has the degree of true modeling skills compatible to the challenge they present.CNJ831 How's the altitude up there? I've never seen a horse so tall.The finished product will speak for itself. I just expected more.
To expect more, you need to develop some actual modeling skills, which to date your modeling leaves in a highly questionable state, not blame your shortcoming on a long established manufacturer.
TA462 wrote:Chip, I don't think he was trying to come across like you think he was, he was just telling the truth. Those kits are for guys with years of experience that have fine tuned their "craftsman" skills and that have picked up little tricks to build them into a great looking model. To be honest I was way over my head with the first one I built even though I thought I was really progressing with my own skill level. It was very humbling, lol. Don't take this the wrong way or anything but maybe your not up to the level you need to be to build one of their kits yet. I sure as heck wasn't when I built my first one.
I took it the way he meant it.
The finish carpenter that trained me some thirty years ago told me that the difference between an apprentice and a journeyman is that the journeyman makes his screw-ups look like they were meant to be that way.
What I was commenting on is that the window impressions look like they were out of alignment and mashed onto the wood with a dull worn out die that now barely mashes through the relief on the wood. Now if old salts like CNJ has tricks to use that overcome that, I bow to his experience.
I can fix the splits so that not even CNJ can see them with his optivisor.
But like I said, for the price, I expected more. Muir Models are cut much cleaner for instance and I've build and kitbashed several of those.
I'm not an expert, and I'm not a skilled modeler. I've built 2 Campbell kits reasonably successfully, and have 2 kits waiting to be built. I too am surprised at the cut-out scores being crooked. I know when Leo Campbell was running the company, the defective walls would have been replaced upon request without question. Have you contacted Campbell (no web site or e-mail)?
I did not know about the tape on the underside, either. A very good tip I will keep in mind. I do know I had to make multiple passes to get a clean cut-out at the windows and doors, or cut items to length.
yours in building Campbell kits
Fred W
CNJ831 wrote:To expect more, you need to develop some actual modeling skills, which to date your modeling leaves in a highly questionable state, not blame your shortcoming on a long established manufacturer. CNJ831
You know, I think HE was coming across as Chip thought, and as I thought. I have read CNJ in print before not only here but elsewhere. He has a superiority complex as far as I am concerned.
Bob
tatans wrote:OK all you kit builders, Can I ask an honest question? Do you start off building kits(which to me, seem insanely expensive) as a step toward learning how to scratchbuild? or do kit builders never scratchbuild?
I got back into the hobby about 25 years ago, after being a teenage modeler previously. I didn't have the money to buy Campbell kits when I was young, so I wanted to give one a try. I picked the cheapest one I could find so if I screwed it up I wouldn't be out much. It was I believe a machine shop, pretty basic, with cardboard walls that were to be covered with the corrugated aluminum. I remember being somewhat intimidated by all of the instructions, plans and templates, but worked my way through it.
I moved on to other more complicated Campbell kits such as their water tower, coaling tower, supply shed, building under construction and a few I don't remember. Most of these kits I got for good prices at local shows and won a few in model contests.
It didn't take me too long to realise that I was paying a decent price for what has already been described as a "box of sticks" and some great plans and instructions, and I could probably do the same on my own. Which I did - I started scratchbuilding structures using the skills and tricks I had learned in assembling the Campbell kits and a few small Fine Scale Miniatures ones too. I credit these kits with my scratchbuilding skills. It does help to have a background in drafting as I do, being able to visualise and make my own plans and templates.
So whenever I see a mention of someone wanting to get into structure scratchbuilding, I always suggest assembling several kits like the Cambell ones to learn on.
To answer your last question, I build from all levels of kits, and I have scratchbuilt. The best analogy is that Campbell Kits are the collection of materials and plans to scratchbuild a given building model. As far as "insanely expensive," some kits make a museum quality building models, and some look like train set buildings, as well as everything in between. The price tag will usually reflect this, as well as whether the kit is a limited run or not. I did start with kits because preassembled buildings weren't available when I started in model railroading (mid 60's). I've also assembled many locomotives and cars from kit because they were cheaper at the time.
SpaceMouse wrote:I opened my first Campbell's Kit, the Scarlet Slipper. I spent 2 hours cutting the windows and doors. Not only were the cuts crooked and shallow but they walls were so fragile that half of them broke during cutting. Oh, I'll be able to save them. But next time I'm considering replacing the walls with styrene. Like I said, for that price, I expected more.
You're kidding, right?
Campbell was state of the art 40 years ago. With the advent of laser cutting in recent history Campbell kits are relagated to collectors and die hards. What I don't understand is why they haven't come into the 21st century and revised their fab methods. These kits have been in production so long that the costs of developing them were recouped years ago. Anything produced now is pure gravy for them. I mean, how much does it cost to box some "sticks"...
If you want a nice craftsman kit you're better off with the more modern offerings. Leave Campbell kits for the collectors on ebay.
-G-
tatans,
When I first started out in MRRing four years ago, I began with a couple of Walthers kits before tackling a Suncoast FM Coaling tower. Boy, was that an eye opener! I didn't realize what I was getting into when I bought the kit: A box of "sticks" with working drawings that had to converted to HO scale. Even so, I stuck with it. After converting dimensions, measuring, cutting, assembling, painting, and wiring; 100 hrs. later I had myself a decent looking FM Coaling tower.
As I mentioned earlier, I've assembled 3 craftsman kits in all and each one of them holds a warm place in my heart; not only for the amount of time spent in assembling them, but also for the amount of effort I've put into them to add more detailing than originally came with the kit. (Hence, my first kitbashing experiences.)
Since that time I've put together more Walthers kits, a few AMB kits, some resin kits, as well as tried a few scratch-building projects on my own. I've found that kits generally lead to kitbashing (sometimes in lesser or greater degrees), which "can" lead to scratch-building. This was the natural progression for me. I needed to hone my skills first - as well as purchase a few materials and tools - before venturing out and trying things on my own.
The key to kitbashing and scratch-building is to jump right in, give it a try, and not be afraid to make mistakes. And when you do, you do your best to fix and/or hide them. Start with a project that's very simple. Once you develope and hone your "experimentation" skills, increase the complexity and challenge of subsequent projects. Inexpensive kits can be found at MRR shows, if you want to experiment and not spend a lot of money doing so.
Chip's eariler axom is so true: The difference between an apprentice and a journeyman is that the journeyman knows how to cover up his mistakes. And, even the best of them makes mistakes now and then.
The most important thing to remember about a Campbell or any other craftsman kit is TAKE YOUR TIME. We are all so used to the snap together buildings that we aproach these craftsman kits the same way. I started in HO as a kid in the '50s & you had a choice of cardboard kits or scratchbuilding. The cardboard warped so I started scratchbuilding. You could only find balsa sheets meant for model airplanes at the time. The siding had to be scribed & there were no plastic windows, so you had to make frames & sash from toothpicks etc. My first attempts were sad, but the quality improved as I gained more experience. I've had the same problem with crooked windows on Campbell kits. I usually drill a hole in the middle & file the opening to size, generally ignoring the die cut "openings" . keep trying the window in & fill any indentations that show with wood filler.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is easier to go from scratch building to snap together than the other way around.
Lateral-G wrote: Campbell was state of the art 40 years ago. With the advent of laser cutting in recent history Campbell kits are relagated to collectors and die hards. What I don't understand is why they haven't come into the 21st century and revised their fab methods. These kits have been in production so long that the costs of developing them were recouped years ago. Anything produced now is pure gravy for them. I mean, how much does it cost to box some "sticks"...
The original owner of Campbells sold the businsess to another unrelated fellow named Cambell some time ago. His acquisition costs probably have yet to be recouped.
Campbell kits are more valued for their great instructions, plans and drawings, which did take a fair amount of effort to produce.
loathar wrote:Last time I was in HobbyTown USA I noticed THEY had started carrying quite a few Campbell kits. I thought that was kind of odd for H.T. to carry craftsman kits. The price was pretty darn cheap too. Made me wonder if they weren't some new cheaper, lower quality version.
just bought a campbell truss bridge kit for 30.00 at hobby town + it had a 15% discount on all model railroad items and a free tool or paint of 5.00 value for ever $20.00 spent. Haven't opened it yet as I am out of town in training so I guess I will wait another week.
mike
alco's forever!!!!! Majoring in HO scale Minorig in O scale:)
Railphotog wrote: Lateral-G wrote: Campbell was state of the art 40 years ago. With the advent of laser cutting in recent history Campbell kits are relagated to collectors and die hards. What I don't understand is why they haven't come into the 21st century and revised their fab methods. These kits have been in production so long that the costs of developing them were recouped years ago. Anything produced now is pure gravy for them. I mean, how much does it cost to box some "sticks"... The original owner of Campbells sold the businsess to another unrelated fellow named Cambell some time ago. His acquisition costs probably have yet to be recouped.Campbell kits are more valued for their great instructions, plans and drawings, which did take a fair amount of effort to produce.
We agree there. The instructions, plastic details and the rest of the sticks are fine. I can live with that. It will make a great completed model. It's the walls that leave something to be desired. As I said, they will go together faster and easier if you just replace those wood walls with styrene.
This sounds like a case of geezer ranting. Better go to Walmart and get a blood pressure monitor.
I have mine.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.
richg1998 wrote: This sounds like a case of geezer ranting. Better go to Walmart and get a blood pressure monitor. I have mine. Rich
I have mine. Rich
Geezer? I'll give you Geezer.