loathar wrote:I've never built any craftsman kits for trains but I used to build and fly the airplane kits made out of balsa and covered in tissue paper. (the more complex kits too) How hard are these Campbell kits compared to those? I'm assuming the construction process is similar. The prices I saw at HobbyTown make me tempted to try one.
I've done both; rubber powered Gullows airplane kits and Campbell crafstman kits.
I think the Guillows have the edge in ease of assembly...but not by much. Guillows suffered terribly from what we call "die crushing". I don't think Guillows have replaced their dies in 40 years. They are expensive after all...
Just another reason why the rubber and RC airplane guys prefer laser cut kits. Laser cut airplane kits (if they are well designed) literally fall together. It's gotten so your average garage/cottage industry can crank them out. While a good set up is around $15K you can aslo get a decent CNC router for even less. I guy I work with has a CNC router and with his CAD program and a PC he can crank out any airplane he wants.
I'm surprised that Campbell's hasn't updated their line with all the new technology available. They could be so much more competitive. they have some really nice structures but their build methods are archaic. That's the reason they have the reputation they do for being so challenging. 50 years ago that was OK but not today....
-G-
Capt. Grimek wrote:I've given up largely on scuba forums due to the "chest beating" that goes on thereand was enjoying a respite with a forum and hobby where everyone was kind, helpful,and encouraging. I'd sure hate to see that change now!
This sort of behaviour occurs on any forum. It's not peculiar to any hobby or activity.
You should have seen the usenet newsgroups before the advent of the forums as we know them today. You would need a nomex suit and a hide two inches thick.
Raised on the Erie Lackawanna Mainline- Supt. of the Black River Transfer & Terminal R.R.
Well, seems some folks have gon off on a tangent here.
As per typical for an internet forum
Anyways.
Being an O scaler, one winds up doing both craftsman type kits and scratchbuilding. One hint I have used when those pesky windows and door openings have not been cut out is to saw 'em out!
I drill a small hole, near one corner of the opening, and use a Xacto saw blade (just like a prototype SawZall) to cut out the opening. Patience and a vee-cut backer to hold the work down, if I do get any splits, I'll CA the crack, and back up the area with some bond paper to add structral rigidity.
I have built several "craftsman" kits, rolling stock and buildings, and didn't find them too tough to build.
The Hy-Cubes are Quality Craft kits, and the building in the background is a Gloor-Craft Bryan's Farm Supply. The Farm Supply had no windows cut at all, I used the "O scale SawZall" method of cutting in the openings.
Chip, this coming October, the Somerset (Pa.) Club is hosting a show, with a seminar on kit/scratchbuilding on the schedule. Why don't you come down and see us?
Over the years, I've certainly built my share of 'bundle of sticks' kits--usually rolling stock from Ambroid or LaBelle, but I've never attempted a craftsman building kit--well, okay, one--a laser-cut sandhouse that wasn't that bad to construct, but ended up looking just not right in my engine terminal (it now belongs to my grand-nephew). Both my LHS carry a pretty fair inventory of Campbell kits, and I was looking at one of their mine kits, thinking that it might make a fair replica of the actual mine in Sierra City with a lot of kit-bashing. Then I looked just a little to the right on the shelf, and lo and behold, there WAS a model of the mine in Sierra City in a styrene craftsman's kit. Needless to say, the Campbell mine is probably still on the shelf at Bruce's, but that doesn't stop me from examining them when I'm there. Unfortunately, I'm just about out of space for additional buildings, or I'd probably try one. I know they've been around since I was skinny and had hair (THAT long!) and I'd really like to try one.
Perhaps the ice house and dock? Well, let's see what I can come up with for some additional space. Only problem is that I don't think there's such a thing as Ambroid wood glue anymore, and joint-filling CA is too messy, and most other wood glues take too darned long to set up. Now Ambroid wood glue--THERE was a product!! Stuff made your wood models absolutely INDESTRUCTABLE! Oh well--
Chip, keep at it. I know you will.
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Paul,
I love craftsman kits. I can already see where this is going and it will look spectacular.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Chip,
It seems like you've let your nose get bent out of shape because you didn't get the response you were looking for from your original post. Instead of getting a bunch of people agreeing with you that Campbell kits were of poor quality, you got the opposite response. People disagreed with you and said that they were good kits that took, perhaps, a higher skill level than where you are currently at and you took offense with those comments. Another example where its wrong for someone to provide an open, honest perspective????
Ce la vie!
I love those old craftsman kits. My first was a LaBelle flatcar, from there I went on to build a Central Valley caboose and then scratch/parts built two boxcars using the car sides from the NMRA Bulletin. My first scratchbuilt structure was a handcar/section building with 2 windows, regular door and handcar door following an article and plan in one of Kalmbach's books. My second attempt at scratchbuilding a structure was a disaster - I was following an article in MR for freight house in O scale, but doing it in HO. I was halfway along when I realized that all my door and window openings were way too large - yep I forgot to convert them to HO size. And I had used the O scale size siding.
Sure those kits were a "box of sticks", but the advantage of the kits was getting instructions/plans, castings,wires, and correct size strip wood/wood shapes/wood siding all in one box. Once you figured out where to get those you could scratchbuild as easy as kit build. What little time I have now for the hobby is focused on building the layout - but I keep an eye out for those old kits and I have a stash of them for retirement in a couple of years.
Enjoy
Paul
SpaceMouse wrote: I give up.Yep, they're way over my head. I don't know what possessed me to think I could handle such master modeler stuff. Where my Plasticville?
I give up.
Yep, they're way over my head. I don't know what possessed me to think I could handle such master modeler stuff.
Where my Plasticville?
Chip,Don't be like me and give up on these wonder kits.Continue building that kit..
Remember every master modeler started the same as you..Some perhaps like me by completely wrecking a Campbell kit the only difference they didn't give up like I did..
Larry
Conductor.
Summerset Ry.
"Stay Alert, Don't get hurt Safety First!"
HEdward wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: I give up.Yep, they're way over my head. I don't know what possessed me to think I could handle such master modeler stuff. Where my Plasticville?Great, another Presidential candidate with serious flaws. I gues I'll just have to get my perfect wife to run instead!
Great, another Presidential candidate with serious flaws. I gues I'll just have to get my perfect wife to run instead!
LOL!
What do you think has more political clout, the Plasticville demographic or the Master Modeler demographic.
SpaceMouse wrote: I opened my first Campbell's Kit, the Scarlet Slipper. I spent 2 hours cutting the windows and doors. Not only were the cuts crooked and shallow but they walls were so fragile that half of them broke during cutting. Oh, I'll be able to save them. But next time I'm considering replacing the walls with styrene. Like I said, for that price, I expected more.
I opened my first Campbell's Kit, the Scarlet Slipper. I spent 2 hours cutting the windows and doors. Not only were the cuts crooked and shallow but they walls were so fragile that half of them broke during cutting.
Oh, I'll be able to save them. But next time I'm considering replacing the walls with styrene.
Like I said, for that price, I expected more.
Chip,Sorry but,unlike the common plastic kit the Campbell kits takes skill and tricks that many hasn't learn.A gentle hand on the old modeling knife as well.
I lack those skills and know none of those tricks and after wrecking my first Campbell kit years ago I haven't tried my hand with wooden "Craftsman" kits since.
SpaceMouse wrote: Bob,Tape would have been a good idea. If it was mentioned in the instructions I missed it. But to say they were partially cut, I would say scored. The cuts barely penetrated the shiplap siding. I was using a brand new #11 for the occasion. And even with the new blade the force to penetrate was considerable.Perhaps it's my lack of skill. But I've build several Muir Kits without similar incidents. Mark,I'd love some laser cut Old West buildings. Tom,It'll look good. It's just that next time I run into stamp cuts like these, I'll probably just buy a sheet of styrene and replace them.
Bob,
Tape would have been a good idea. If it was mentioned in the instructions I missed it. But to say they were partially cut, I would say scored. The cuts barely penetrated the shiplap siding. I was using a brand new #11 for the occasion. And even with the new blade the force to penetrate was considerable.
Perhaps it's my lack of skill. But I've build several Muir Kits without similar incidents.
Mark,
I'd love some laser cut Old West buildings.
Tom,
It'll look good. It's just that next time I run into stamp cuts like these, I'll probably just buy a sheet of styrene and replace them.
When I was a kid, Willie Mays was the guy we all looked up to. The guy could do anything. He could catch a ball on a dead run away from the plate, spin on one foot and throw the ball back to the infield so quick runners couldn't advance. He'd would spend hours after the game signing autographs and talking the game with kids.
Now we got Barry Bonds, Willie's godson. Barry is mean to kids.
Some pros help where-ever they can. Others just thump their chest and say how great they are.
CNJ831 wrote: There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Incidentally, the Scarlet Slipper is one of the simpler Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built these kits down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit. I'll add that those who are troubled by the level of skills required for assembling a Campbell kit would do well to steer clear of any of the high-end, quality kits, many of which are truly challenging to the hobbyist (like FSM, FOS, et al.). These often really are little more than a box of sticks and instructions but the manufacturer has assumed the purchaser has the degree of true modeling skills compatible to the challenge they present.CNJ831
There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quality, or minor level of construction difficulty, presented by Campbell kits. Incidentally, the Scarlet Slipper is one of the simpler Campbell kits. Many thousands of seasoned modelers have very successfully built these kits down through the years without ever encountering any significant problems. However, and simply put, such kits are old-school and thus intended for the craftsman hobbyist - a term that used to be synonyous with the words model railroader. One needs to be prepared to expend some real time, care and work effort to get quality results from any of these kits, they do not simply fall together and look great. But once completed, there is an obvious world of difference between a well constructed wood and cardstock craftsman model and a slapped together, styrene structure kit.
I'll add that those who are troubled by the level of skills required for assembling a Campbell kit would do well to steer clear of any of the high-end, quality kits, many of which are truly challenging to the hobbyist (like FSM, FOS, et al.). These often really are little more than a box of sticks and instructions but the manufacturer has assumed the purchaser has the degree of true modeling skills compatible to the challenge they present.
CNJ831
Too many so called "modelers" today aren't.
tatans wrote:OK all you kit builders, Can I ask an honest question? Do you start off building kits(which to me, seem insanely expensive) as a step toward learning how to scratchbuild? or do kit builders never scratchbuild?
I started with trains as a kid, then went into model railroading in the early 60's, then Control Line airplanes, then back to trains, then to R/C airplanes, then back to trains. Everything was in kits. The last time I moved to trains again, it was for good in 1982 after I retired from the Navy. If I found the plans for a building or anything else that I liked, and there was no kit or the kit was too expensive, I scratch-built it. My first MRR scratch building project was a Straining Beam Pony Truss bridge. The same one that John Allen built for his first G&D layout. Everything after that was simple.
Elmer.
The above is my opinion, from an active and experienced Model Railroader in N scale and HO since 1961.
(Modeling Freelance, Eastern US, HO scale, in 1962, with NCE DCC for locomotive control and a stand alone LocoNet for block detection and signals.) http://waynes-trains.com/ at home, and N scale at the Club.
I actually find scratchbuilding much easier and more relaxing than building craftsman kits. If a craftsman kit just has a box of sticks and plans, I might as well buy my own wood, get the plans, and build it MY way (cheaper too). Many plans and construction articles are available in older MR magazines, NGSL, RMC, and online for free. I'm in G scale so I can use the common sizes of stripwood and many other common objects.
Thanks. I suspect it is brittle wood as well.
Anyway, it is just a hiccup. Here's the workaround. I simply glued it to a piece of scrap paper. It will give it flexability and strength. Don't mind the excess glue, I'll cut it away while it is still soft. I wanted the paper like a second skin. It's drying with weight on it now.
Not knowing if you bought a recently produced kit or a kit that was produced years ago. Old kits have a way of surfacing many years later. One problem with old kits is the wood can become brittle and split when you attempt to cut through it. Warpage is another common problem with old kits.
The present owner may have produced this kit, or it could have been produced by the original owner. I would take a chance and contact Campbells by mail and see if you can get a replacement piece. Most manufacturers will bend over backwards to keep/help a customer, if you approach them in a nice way.
Doug T wrote: The one thing I have learned over the years is patience. It was something that I aquired over time. Sometimes I just need to walk away and return another day.
The one thing I have learned over the years is patience. It was something that I aquired over time. Sometimes I just need to walk away and return another day.
Walk away is what I did (that and post this rant thread). I don't believe I lack for patience. I once took six weeks to paint an HO scale church.
And I agree. The issue is worn dies.
Having worked for a major greeting card company years ago making steel rule dies for greeting cards. It is very possible the cutting edge of the steel rule could have broken or wore down. We usually put a nicks (every so often) in the cutting edge to keep the center of the piece from falling out.
I have built my share of Campbell kits over the years. I always thought they were great kits. I now model in G scale and build my structures from pictures or plans. My lumber yard supplies me with my material and my table saw cuts my sticks and pieces. I do buy some doors and windows.
richg1998 wrote: This sounds like a case of geezer ranting. Better go to Walmart and get a blood pressure monitor. I have mine. Rich
This sounds like a case of geezer ranting. Better go to Walmart and get a blood pressure monitor.
I have mine. Rich
Geezer? I'll give you Geezer.
I have mine.
Rich
If you ever fall over in public, pick yourself up and say “sorry it’s been a while since I inhabited a body.” And just walk away.