Trains.com

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

I've been Penn-Centralized!

8718 views
131 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: New Milford, Ct
  • 3,232 posts
Posted by GMTRacing on Tuesday, April 8, 2008 6:14 AM

Dave,

   For sure if you're going to model anything past the 60's in the northeast you'll have to deal with the lot of it PC, Conrail and Amtrak. For most of us that remember the era before, PC was a nightmare of lousy service, poor maintainence and filthy equipment, the unavoidable result of government indifference and changing times and insufficient capital. At least you'll be able to run anything patched or unpatched from NYC, PRR or NH as it was all scrambled together along with other stock from all over the U.S. In the early Amtrak era we even have pics of passenger trains in Connecticut with a virtual smorgasboard(sp) of cars (PRR, Rio Grande, Sante Fe, etc) all surplussed off and pressed into service unaltered.

   As a New Haven fan, my one comfort these days is seeing the modern "heritage" paint jobs on ConnDot equipment - possibly the only way the new Genisis power units will ever look ok and a thrill when the FL-9's are filling in on the local commuter runs. If it keeps your kids happy and involved and makes sense to you, go for it.  J.R. 

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Joizey
  • 1,983 posts
Posted by SteamFreak on Monday, April 7, 2008 11:11 PM
 Kenfolk wrote:

 

Dave, beware of the slippery slope ---

  • Pennsy > Penn Central
  • Penn Central > NS with PRR reporting marks
  • Horrors!  No steam!
  • Steam?  611, 1218...
  • Before you realize what happened, you'll be modeling the Norfolk & Western!

And then what.....Freelancing!?!

No, it's far worse...

TYCO collecting!  Shock [:O]

So remember, if someone offers you some Penn Central - just say no.

  • Member since
    December 2006
  • 266 posts
Posted by jep1267 on Monday, April 7, 2008 9:33 PM
 SteamFreak wrote:
 Just remember to make your rails sag at the joints, toss litter everywhere, and cover everything with a healthy layer of Woodland Scenics Bag O' Grime.

Ahhhhhh! Woodland Scenics Bag-o-Grime Laugh [(-D] LOL I gotta get me some of that.

  • Member since
    October 2007
  • From: Tennessee
  • 665 posts
Posted by Kenfolk on Monday, April 7, 2008 9:21 PM

 

Dave, beware of the slippery slope ---

  • Pennsy > Penn Central
  • Penn Central > NS with PRR reporting marks
  • Horrors!  No steam!
  • Steam?  611, 1218...
  • Before you realize what happened, you'll be modeling the Norfolk & Western!
And then what.....Freelancing!?!

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: Greencastle, PA
  • 462 posts
Posted by OzarkBelt on Monday, April 7, 2008 1:38 PM

Dave,

I think you should go for it. As a pennsylvanian native, I've often been tempted to change from a midwestern road to the PC, CR, or NS. mostly because that's the era I'm familar with and enjoy. It's your railroad. Do what you want. Lookinf forward to some good pics though!!!

BTW, I don't like RGS.

*ducks out of the door due to swarm of angry RGS fans*

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot Visit my blog! http://becomingawarriorpoet.blogspot.com

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, April 7, 2008 11:20 AM
 Paul3 wrote:

I've been biting my toungue pretty hard here, but I will say this...

The Penn Central should never have happened.  It took 30 years to undue it with the cleaving of Conrail into CSX and NS.

Paul A. Cutler III
************

************

True, but again it's what I remember from my childhood.  Really, it was early Conrail by the time I have vivid memories of railroading.

So your objection is duely noted.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    May 2002
  • From: Massachusetts
  • 2,899 posts
Posted by Paul3 on Monday, April 7, 2008 11:13 AM

I've been biting my toungue pretty hard here, but I will say this...

The Penn Central should never have happened.  It took 30 years to undue it with the cleaving of Conrail into CSX and NS.

Paul A. Cutler III
************

************

  • Member since
    December 2004
  • From: Rimrock, Arizona
  • 11,251 posts
Posted by SpaceMouse on Monday, April 7, 2008 10:08 AM

On my office layout, I've made it a timeless Western Pennsylvania layout. I have no turnouts so the only variety will come from running different trains.

My first train is already made up. It's a modern Buffalo and Pittsburgh coal drag that is made up of scavenged 90-ton hoppers.

My next train will be a modern NS mixed freight.

The third train will be a Hoodlebug.

And the 4th train will be a PRR 2-8-0 pulling 40 footers.

******************************************

You know, it never once occurred to me to run Penn Central. Must be because I don't have a fever.   

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

  • Member since
    February 2007
  • 649 posts
Posted by AltoonaRailroader on Monday, April 7, 2008 10:06 AM

Very nice Dave and welcome to the Darkside!!!! Sign - Welcome [#welcome] I was going to do an older layout and do PRR Steam in HO, but then again, I really like diesels better anyhow and since I grew up on the mainline and had relatives that worked on both I decided to do the PC/CR transition days. That really gave me the freedom to do what I wanted in that era, but I could still put a M-1 or K-4 on there and make it like and excursion train or something. I'll me anxious to see what you do with some more modern equipment since your steam stuff is so good.

 Good luck Dave, I'll be waiting to see.

Here is a pic of aGP-7 that was Union Pacific I redid in PC and painted it that very very dark PRR green. I'm not fond of all black loco's as was most of the PC fleet.

And here's one of my GP-9's double headed with a PC green but CR decaled Highcube from Proto1K.

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Good ol' USA
  • 9,642 posts
Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, April 7, 2008 9:58 AM

I hear ya Dave!

I was bitten by the Penn Central bug years ago.  I was born in New York City and lived there thru the early 70s. As a little kid, I remember spending so much time looking out of my parent's 3rd story apartment window below the Bruckner Expressway.  Across the street, in a ditch, was that famous 4-track mainline with trains running by day and night. 

I had no way of knowing that I was watching railroad history unfolding as the New Haven and Pennsy were transitioning to the PC.  I just enjoyed watching the trains cruise by. 

I still am planning on putting Penn Central "worms" on 3 of these puppies here and a "Keystone" on another one.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, April 7, 2008 9:05 AM

One additional thought here...

Standing derailments, washouts, engine failures, patchy paint jobs, poor service, decaying track, service delays, carload tariffs, unprofitable passenger service, etc...

When it's Penn Central, people condemn it is an awful prototype.

When it's the Rio Grande Southern, people rush to make a model of every car, loco, Galloping Goose, and structure on the line.

Just food for thought...!  FWIW, I once modeled the RGS in HOn3.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Monday, April 7, 2008 8:53 AM

Great inputs, everyone!

I'm still leaning toward 1977 plus or mins 3 years as my second era, so I can run everything from solid PC (1974, the year I was born) to 1980, with lotsa Conrail blue and Amtrak Phase III.  For reference, Conrail started operations in, I believe, April of 1976.

I love the PRR to death...  but somehow, the thought of reproducing the eastern PA/NJ/NY I remember as a kid is really exciting!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: On the Banks of the Great Choptank
  • 2,916 posts
Posted by wm3798 on Monday, April 7, 2008 8:39 AM

The best part about modeling the PC is, when guests come over and your layout is overcome by gremlins (it only happens when people visit the layout, you know...) you can just tell them that you are strictly following prototype practice! (mechanical failures, derailments...Big Smile [:D])

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Elyria, OH
  • 2,586 posts
Posted by BRVRR on Monday, April 7, 2008 8:34 AM

Go for it Dave. I model the NYC, mostly in the 50s. I have several videos which show th PC on the pointy end - on the rails in the Midwest.

It was a busy vital link for many businesses and towns. Before the actual end of passenger service they ran dozens of passenger trains. Some are fascinating, with PRR, NYC and PC E units on the point. Sometimes all three!

I too have thought about changing eras to the PC. It is tempting, they ran virtually every type diesel of locomotive available at the time. So virtually anything in my roster would still be usable. And paint-outs/patch jobs would be fun and easy to do. We'll see.

I wish you luck.

 

Remember its your railroad

Allan

  Track to the BRVRR Website:  http://www.brvrr.com/

  • Member since
    January 2008
  • From: Elizabeth City, NC
  • 155 posts
Posted by V&AL on Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:12 PM

REPENT! REPENT!! FOR THE PENSY RETURNETH AT AN HOUR WHICH YOU DO NOT KNOW!!!  (i.e. late as usual:)

 I like the PRR so much I had to change history, I merged it with the Virginian, and The V&AL was born.  I had some PC equipment, but it had to go, no PC in my version of history.  PRR equipment still runs as heritage units:

Virginia and Alleghenny Railroad Texas and Gulf Coast Railroad (The Dixie Road) PACE: Pittsburgh Area Commuter Express Texas Express
  • Member since
    June 2003
  • From: Culpeper, Va
  • 8,204 posts
Posted by IRONROOSTER on Sunday, April 6, 2008 7:52 PM

Yep, it's hard to stick to one era.  Personally, I'm looking to go the other way.  Have a 50's Ma&Pa and a 20's version of rolling stock.

Enjoy

Paul 

If you're having fun, you're doing it the right way.
  • Member since
    February 2008
  • From: Potomac Yard
  • 2,767 posts
Posted by NittanyLion on Sunday, April 6, 2008 5:00 PM
 jrbernier wrote:

Dave,

  My interests are Milwaukee Road in the late 50'.  My son was interested in 'Amtrak' and those flashing FRED's on the back of freight trains.  I guess it has a lot to do with what you think you remember when you were a kid!

Jim

That's how I think, I guess.  I remember when the local stuff I saw was SD38s and SD40T-2s, with the daily local to the steel mill in town was behind a pair of SD9s and the pre-winter rush to Lake Erie brought a few ancient F units out of hiding.  Nothing had a wide cab either.  Any future layout I build will have a healthy core of SD40-2s. 

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • 3,139 posts
Posted by chutton01 on Sunday, April 6, 2008 3:19 PM

SecretWeapon, what is the deal with that Passenger Platform height in that second image you posted?  It looks higher than the passengers?

Actually I think the later Penn Central years might well be worth modeling - say 1973/1974.  Consider that the Penn Central (and CNJ, and Reading et al - maybe not Erie Lackawanna, although Hurricane Agnes certainly mucked them up) was operating like a shoe-string operation - yet it owned a significant amount of the US rail freight car fleet, and generated quite a bit of traffic.  During those years (when nobody was quite sure of the end-game), it still carried a lot of freight - deregulation had not occured, there were still lots of factories and facilities in the North East (although the rust belt concept was beginning to get notices), the coming failure of the (vertically integrated) US steel industry was probably not on everyone's radar screen...plenty of local freight and old time railroading, mixed with the new forms of freight cars that started to emerged during the 1960s - Centerflow hoppers, outside Post Boxcars (sans roofwalks), pneumatic Covered hoppers, 70t mech reefers, 100ton hoppers, steel coil cars, frameless tankcars, TOFC/COFC and so on - (plus experimental 'few offs' like Pregnant Whale tank cars or NYC Clamshell coil cars), and best of all these relatively new cars could be heavily weathered (unless owned by BN, or Santa Fe, or UP, or some of the railroads of the period who still cared).  Throw in beat looking 1st generation F-Units and GP9s, and somewhat used looking 2nd Gens like GP38s and SD40s, and have a blast (and take those steam engines and 'stuff and mount' them in big town parks along your layout - make sure you model kids climbing over them during the day, and teens doing some dubes in the cab at night).
Best of all, you get to use all the cool looking HO scale vehicles from the late 1960s and early 70s that manfacturer's are turning out.

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: New Joizey
  • 1,983 posts
Posted by SteamFreak on Sunday, April 6, 2008 2:04 PM

Ah, yes, the Nixon-Carter years... those were good times. Whistling [:-^]

Just remember to make your rails sag at the joints, toss litter everywhere, and cover everything with a healthy layer of Woodland Scenics Bag O' Grime.

http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=193019&nseq=75

I grew up during the PC era as well. I remember filthy GG1's hauling freight. Kind of sad, but interesting too. 

  • Member since
    January 2004
  • From: EL country
  • 65 posts
Posted by SecretWeapon on Sunday, April 6, 2008 1:14 PM

Here's mine. I love it.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Sunday, April 6, 2008 12:33 PM
 NeO6874 wrote:

I guess I'm an outlier on that "model what you grew up with" trend.  If that was the case, I'd be modelling the '90s... modern diesels are just too ugly for my tastes (though I can live with some of the 1st generation ones... barely Wink [;)])

I'm in the same boat right now, modeling 1956.  I do love steam.  And the 50s were really the last great decade of the PRR...  The long slide had already begun, but outwardly it still appeared healthy.

But other than seeing the cold carcasses of the PRR great steam fleet at the RR Museum of PA (and riding behind PRR 1223 and 7002 when they still ran on the Strasburg), PRR steam was a distant dream to me.  One I wish were memory, but a dream only.

My formative years were the painful re-birth of Northeastern railroading from the ashes of bankrupcy.  That rebirth was not without death; many thousands of miles of track were abandoned to make Conrail profitable.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Sunday, April 6, 2008 12:25 PM
 cf-7 wrote:

 Dave - Here is an N scale Kato SD40 that I did about 5 years ago. 

That's exactly what I had in mind.  Awesome!!!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    June 2006
  • From: Baltimore, MD
  • 1,726 posts
Posted by CSX_road_slug on Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:40 AM

There's a member on the Atlas forum who models the PC, his signature contains an interesting slogan that sums it all up:

"Penn Central - no way to run a railroad, but fun to model!"

 

-Ken in Maryland  (B&O modeler, former CSX modeler)

  • Member since
    January 2006
  • From: Northeast OH
  • 2,268 posts
Posted by NeO6874 on Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:32 AM

I guess I'm an outlier on that "model what you grew up with" trend.  If that was the case, I'd be modelling the '90s... modern diesels are just too ugly for my tastes (though I can live with some of the 1st generation ones... barely Wink [;)])

 

-Dan

Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site

  • Member since
    July 2006
  • From: Third rock from the sun.
  • 337 posts
Posted by D&HRR on Sunday, April 6, 2008 9:15 AM
  I think the era you are talking about is perfect. I have several PC diesels and CR diesels and some early patch jobs. There is something about those PC patches. You have my support, do it.
  • Member since
    January 2001
  • From: SE Minnesota
  • 6,847 posts
Posted by jrbernier on Sunday, April 6, 2008 8:27 AM

Dave,

  My interests are Milwaukee Road in the late 50'.  My son was interested in 'Amtrak' and those flashing FRED's on the back of freight trains.  I guess it has a lot to do with what you think you remember when you were a kid!

Jim

Modeling BNSF  and Milwaukee Road in SW Wisconsin

  • Member since
    May 2006
  • From: Texas
  • 64 posts
Posted by cf-7 on Sunday, April 6, 2008 7:37 AM

 Dave - Here is an N scale Kato SD40 that I did about 5 years ago. 



                                                                                                

  • Member since
    November 2003
  • From: Colorado Springs, CO
  • 2,742 posts
Posted by Dave Vollmer on Sunday, April 6, 2008 6:53 AM

Folks have strong feelings about the PC, and they're rarely good.

I'm really leaning toward doing very early Conrail which was still heavy w/ PC stuff.

The ideal train would be a blue CR diesel with a black PC/CR paint-out behind with maybe a RDG paint-out for a third, with a mix of cars from the Northeast bankrupts, and a CR cabin.

I love the Pennsy and am not giving up a single piece of my PRR roster.  Allowing a second era (namely the mid- to late-70s) gives me the chance to model what I remember as a young boy (I was born too late for Pennsy), as well as to strike a balance with my 5-year-old, who loves Conrail and Amtrak.  Of course, he'd rather run P42s and Superliners and doesn't quite realize that the Conrail diesels he sees around here are owned by CSX and will be repainted in due time, but...

The attraction to model what one remembers as a child is a very strong one.  If only I'd been more aware of the GG1s and all of the rainbow Conrail paint-outs I took for granted when I was so young...  All gone now, even Conrail.

I did Conrail railfanning from Penn State as a college student...  ...so the day they moved a Conrail (ex-PC ex-PRR) GP30 into the Railroad Museum of PA (along with the Silverliner cars I rode with my mother from Lancaster to Philadelphia), I began to realize how much had changed.

Speaking of PC and Lancaster...  Anyone remember the pair of PC baggage cars that sat next to the head house at Lancaster station well into the 90s?  They finally came out to Strasburg for restoration.  It'll be interesting to see if they come back PC or NYC.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

  • Member since
    August 2004
  • 2,844 posts
Posted by dinwitty on Saturday, April 5, 2008 11:47 PM

I dunno I could ever do the PC, after the greatness for what the NYC and Pennsy were, it feels like the doldrums and that the 2 could even think about merging, the great competitors. When that happened just about everybody was WHUT?!?!?!

But maybe its like modeling a beat up backwoods logging line, there gets to be a certain frugalness about it, and yes your right, track maintenance wasn't always best, rockin and rollin cars, I got film to prove it. Consider modeling that..err..hehehe  (/me carves out a few dips into the roadbed)

!960's after thru the 70's is kinda like also the shock of no more steam either on the railroads.  I think the railroad world was going thru an adjustment. Its also the time of favorite lines abandoning or edging on abandonment like the North Shore and the C&O letting the South Shore cars rust out on thinking they will abandon the electric.

Lots of Doldrums and bailouts and recovery (or losses)

 

 

 

  • Member since
    March 2007
  • From: On the Banks of the Great Choptank
  • 2,916 posts
Posted by wm3798 on Saturday, April 5, 2008 8:00 PM
Yes, I too have a bad case of "worms".... Whistling [:-^]

My original layout concept was an early Conrail theme, with lots of PC power and paint outs, Amtrak phase 2, and a spin-off shortline with a live interchange. When I see Ed's growing collection of paint outs, I sometimes pine for those days. I cut my railfanning teeth back in the late 70's with trips to Enola and the Middle Division. Those big stone arches, the lousy track, Trailvans with six geeps up front...

(They did that to make sure that at least 3 of them were still working by the end of the trip...)

Between the historic landscape built by the Pennsy (and the other CR predecessors of course...) the corporate intrigue that created and ultimately brought down the PC, and the determination that Conrail and its people had to bring it all out of the ashes, and literally changed the way the nation's railroads did business... makes for some fascinating stuff.

We're with you 100%, Dave!
Lee

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

Subscriber & Member Login

Login, or register today to interact in our online community, comment on articles, receive our newsletter, manage your account online and more!

Users Online

There are no community member online

Search the Community

ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT
Model Railroader Newsletter See all
Sign up for our FREE e-newsletter and get model railroad news in your inbox!