I've been Penn-Centralized!

[Dave Vollmer]

Tom,

I re-worded that post to be a little more diplomatic.  That first draft was a little harsh to Paul.  I know he feels strongly about his viewpoint.  However...

When I get down to it I guess I don't hate any railroad so much that I'd start talking it down in someone else's thread.  Sure, I kid about CSX, but I'm not out to get any thread about it.

Anyway, this is my fun thread about my new modeling direction.  Anyone not holding a ticket to come along with me can get off at the next stop!

[twhite]

Dave V.,
1). You can buy jade green 'till the cows come home, paint GG-1's bright pink, or pretend the PC never died.  It makes no difference to me.  It's not what I would do, but that's my call.

2). So far, all I've said is that the PC should never have happened (which you agreed with), that there should have been two "Conrails" roughly along the lines of NYC and PRR (as in today), that my youth would be boring to model for me, that I find the 1970's depressing and I won't model that era, and that the PC was not exactly railfan friendly.

3). Not to put to fine a point on it, but at no point did I "object" to whatever you wanted to model, therefore there's nothing to be "noted", and nothing to be "overruled".  Please don't put words in my mouth...I get into enough trouble with the things I actually do say.    Thanks.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

Okay, fine...

But if you despise PC and the 70s so much, I guess I'm not sure why you're participating in this thread.  'Cause you're being kind of a downer whether you mean to be or not.

I'm excited about this transition for me.  If you're not, that's your call.  But please don't try to bring my thread down.  You're quite free to start your own.

Dave--

Let me jump in here if I might--if we were to model nothing but railroads at the height of their historical prosperity, a lot of us would probably all be modeling nothing but the 1890's or the 1920's.  Your decision to model a railroad that you remember growing up with is just fine in my book.  Okay, let me get this out of the way right now--perhaps it was not the most prosperous time for the era you're choosing, but it's WHAT YOU REMEMBER. 

I'm modeling WWII era.  If I had chosen to model the Rio Grande ten or fifteen years earlier, I'd be modeling a railroad that was going in and out of recievership so fast you couldn't keep up with it.  Sub-par trackage, locomotives too heavy for a lot of the mainline, really LOCAL traffic--a railroad that was still paying off WP debts--not a pretty sight at all.  But I model WWII, because that's the era that I remember, and the tracks were being replaced as fast as they could, the rails were so shiny you had to blink if the sun was at the right angle, and a train crashing by every fifteen minutes. 

I think we're COMFORTABLE modeling what we remember, whether it's the 'forties, 'eighties, or five years ago.  It's probably what made the initial impression to cause us to BECOME model railroaders.  So we can capture (or re-capture) that part of wonder.  And when it really comes down to it, historically it doesn't really matter the financial condition of the road we choose to model.   

Despite my somewhat facietous first post (which I meant in good humor) I'm really in YOUR camp, my friend!  Go for it!  Your terrific modeling skills will win out in the end, anyway.   

Tom

[twhite]

Tom,

I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know.

Chip--

That's cool--that's somewhere around the builder's date of both my C-48 Consol and T-31 Ten-Wheeler, and they're both still doing yeoman local service.  Just put a diamond stack on one of yours so we can film a train robbery, LOL!   Right now I'm trying to adapt some WS figures to look somewhat like a Hollywood production crew so I can have an excuse to run my back-dated Roundhouse 2-8-0 and some turn-of the 20th century freight cars.  After all, Hollywood filmed a lot of westerns on the "Rio Grande".  Might as well film a few on mine. 

Hey, it all works, LOL!

Tom

[Dave Vollmer]

Paul,

Resistance is futile...  See? 

I guess my point of contention is that if you feel so negatively about it, why even bother to comment?  That's the issue that comes up with WPF.  I'm surprised you'd even stop by a thread marked "Penn Central."  Were I you I'd probably have just driven past.  But, as you pointed out, you're not.  I'm excited about all of this, so I'm not looking for a downer.

My interest in all of this lies primarily in the very interesting equipment and weathering involved.  People don't talk too fondly of the Depression, either, do they?  Yet many people really enjoy modeling the 30s (i.e., George Sellios and countless narrow gaugers).

I can't really say I remember the 70s as well as I'd like (again, having been born in '74)...  Maybe it's because I viewed them with the wonder of a child, whereby any train, no matter how dilapidated or defiled by peeling PC logos, seemed like an awesome machine to a very young me.

[Paul3]

Dave V.,
1). You can buy jade green 'till the cows come home, paint GG-1's bright pink, or pretend the PC never died.  It makes no difference to me.  It's not what I would do, but that's my call.

2). So far, all I've said is that the PC should never have happened (which you agreed with), that there should have been two "Conrails" roughly along the lines of NYC and PRR (as in today), that my youth would be boring to model for me, that I find the 1970's depressing and I won't model that era, and that the PC was not exactly railfan friendly.

3). Not to put to fine a point on it, but at no point did I "object" to whatever you wanted to model, therefore there's nothing to be "noted", and nothing to be "overruled".  Please don't put words in my mouth...I get into enough trouble with the things I actually do say.    Thanks.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[Dave Vollmer]

For clarification (this is an edited post):

I started this thread to explore:

1.  Adding another era to make my layout more interesting

2.  The attraction to the trains of one's formative years

3.  The modeling possibilities open to an early Conrail modeler (i.e., locos in 7 paint schemes, etc.)

The purpose was not to:

1.  Ask anyone's permission.

2.  Debate the merits/demerits of PC and how the latter should preclude anyone from wanting to model it.

So, Paul, again...  Your objection has been noted.  And overruled.  I'm modeling Conrail and late PC.  My wife may have soemthing to say about it, but alas, you don't!

[Paul3]

Antonio,
When the PC took over the NH, the PC "bulls" (RR police) started to chase off railfans in former NH territory where before, it was not a problem.

The NH was active in preserving their own history...the PC cut it up for scrap and threw it all in the dumpster in the 1970's.  Know why there are no preserved DL109's anywhere?  You can thank the PC for that.

Go back and read Trains mag from the 1970's.  It wasn't a friendly time in the northeast on the RR's.  Tough times.

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[Dave Vollmer]

[wm3798]

I grew up during the 70's, too, so there are lot's of family pictures with the avocado green striped sofa, the Bicentennial-themed wallpaper, the basement clubroom with the Scan furniture (Remember Scan?  It was Ikea before Ikea was...)

I learned how to parallel park in a Dodge Monaco...  Not unlike docking a ship.  And I recall the blood in the streets when gasoline went from 29 cents a gallon to 55.

My brother is three years older, so he got swept up in the disco era...  I laid low until the Ramones, Devo and the B-52's hit the scene...  No Jack and Diane for me, either, thank you very much.

The most garish and unpleasant icon of the decade for me, though, was this...

I mean, my GAWD, what were they thinking?!?  I'll take a beat up old PC paint out any day!

Lee 

[AntonioFP45]

Nice one, Dave.

BTW: Don't forget that even after the Conrail creation, a number of ex-NYC cabooses in the jade green scheme lingered on for a couple of years.

[Dave Vollmer]

Stopped at the LHS on the way home from work today and bought myself this guy right here:

[Dave Vollmer]

It's nice when you can find a "niche" community.  In this case it's N scalers modeling northeastern roads.  I've been running with the PRR crowd for a while, but it's nice to expand my horizons a bit.

Seems the idea of adding an early Conrail era to my layout has gotten me completely re-energized in the hobby.

The downside is I'm a few short weeks away from packing up my layout in preperation for a house sale and move...

Nevertheless, I'll have this very small layout for a long time (probably the next 8 years until I can reach military retirement), meaning it would be with me for a full decade (having been constructed in 2006).  This is a great way to keep that little 3' by 6'8" piece of Styrofoam real estsate interesting for 10 years.

Two sets of lineside structures (one set well-maintained with PRR signage, the other weatherbeaten or abandoned with PC signage) and two sets of automobiles would allow me to essentially operate two layouts, one at a time.

[AntonioFP45]

From Paul3:  

Antonio,
The 1970's were something we made fun of in the 1980's and 1990's.    Therefore I've felt this way a lot longer than just 3 years.  The TV, music, fashion, and RR business were almost all awful, IMHO.  Not much you can say can change my mind about that.  I know it wasn't all bad, but neither were the 1930's.  I still don't want to model either decade.

If you lived the '70's, then you have my sympathies!    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%27s  How big were your bell bottoms? 

Paul A. Cutler III

 

Yes, Paul I understand.  No, I'm not going to change your mind or am going to try. Just trying to open your eyes or mind a bit.  Funny, it's just as today, many of us make fun of the 1980s (I sure do!).  Flat top and mohawk hair styles, awful music (the song "Jack & Diane" comes to mind), too many bleeding heart chick flick and corn ball movies.  

Sympathies?  I forgot to mention.........it was the 70s when I got my first of several CAB RIDES!  It was also the era of the railfan friendly SCL where you could walk into a number of yards in Florida and be greeted with a friendly "Hi there".   Wasn't just me.  I spoke to railfans that got and photographed their cab rides on other roads. Too cool!  That steadily disappeared in the 1980s (along with cabooses) as many of the friendly, WWII-era railroaders were quickly retiring and a much sterner, liability-worried generation of railroaders were taking over. 

Nope, no need for sympathy, but thanks.  As I stated, it's you "younger guys" that by no fault of your own, missed out on a lot of fun.  

BTW:  Bell bottoms? Hmmmmm; that was actually in fashion only a few years, then it went to straight leg. My jeans pretty much resembled today's and my hair was almost always cut short.  Be careful with Wikipedia as it's been documented more than once that quite a bit of info found on the website is inaccurate. 

Peace

 

[SpaceMouse]

I'll have to double check, but I think it's July 18-19-20.  We usually have a meet up of a bunch of guys from The Railwire forum, and the CR Historical Society. 

Was that MOW truck incident 2 years ago?  If so, I was probably there with my family, too.  There was heat kink down on the mountain someplace. 

I explained to my wife that it's just like a model railroad... when you bring someone by to watch the trains run, the gremlins take over!

Lee 

It was two years ago.

If that is the weekend, I think I can make it. I'll just be back from vacation and my son will be back from a month-long whirlwind US tour of the South US.

[wm3798]

I'll have to double check, but I think it's July 18-19-20.  We usually have a meet up of a bunch of guys from The Railwire forum, and the CR Historical Society. 

Was that MOW truck incident 2 years ago?  If so, I was probably there with my family, too.  There was heat kink down on the mountain someplace. 

I explained to my wife that it's just like a model railroad... when you bring someone by to watch the trains run, the gremlins take over!

Lee 

[SpaceMouse]

...Just don't miss Railfest, and you'll be fine...

Lee 

When is it this year? I could bring the kid.

(Once at the curve we had been waiting about an hour for the first train. Pretty rare actually. Finally a MOW GMC pick-up truck came around the curve and honed his horn. My son yells, "I want my money back.")

[wm3798]

...Just don't miss Railfest, and you'll be fine...

Lee 

[SpaceMouse]

After this one, you may not want us to make a movie for you...

Cecil B. Dimented 

Let me get this straight. You make a lovey-dovey movie for Dave, but if you made one for me it would be mean and spiteful?

I guess that shows me for making fun of those itty-bitty trains.

[wm3798]

After this one, you may not want us to make a movie for you...

Cecil B. Dimented 

[SpaceMouse]

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

Oooo, that's hot!!!

That's actually quite sweet. No one ever made me a movie.

[Dave Vollmer]

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

Oooo, that's hot!!!

[AltoonaRailroader]

 Just remember to make your rails sag at the joints, toss litter everywhere, and cover everything with a healthy layer of Woodland Scenics Bag O' Grime.

Ahhhhhh! Woodland Scenics Bag-o-Grime LOL I gotta get me some of that.

 

For CSX maybe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRraRJB1d7Y

Conrail for ever

Tjsingle

Holy #$@#, what would have done that without completely trashing the ties and plates around it?  That would have had to been pretty hot!!!!

[SpaceMouse]

What's all this fuss about Dave being pen centric? If a man born into the age of computers wants to model the limitations of ink, then let him. He knows the power of word processing but chooses going back to the roots, back to the days of John Quincy Adams and the session of Congress that over ran so long that they had to provide special funding for a home for 40 unwed pregnant women left in the wake, then let him.

I prefer a pencil myself because you can erase it and you don't have to wad up the paper and throw it away when you want to make a change. Besides all the extra waste of time it's a waste of trees. But then again if the paper gets rained on or you're crying tears because some company with the world's ugliest paint scheme buys up all the bloody noses and black widows and paints them like puke, the ink won't run.

And it's not like you can't get pens in different colors. You can get ink in black or blue or red like you got scribbled all over your paper when you turned in your excellent historical treatise on the merger of the CP and the SP after the meeting with the UP in UT to the home ec teacher.  

So when you start to ridicule Dave for choosing the PEN, remember the Pen was the Standard...

Huh? What? Penn Central? Spell it P-E-N-N  C-E-N-T-R-A-L  

uh, never mind 

[SpaceMouse]

Tom,

I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know.

[Paul3]

Antonio,
The 1970's were something we made fun of in the 1980's and 1990's.    Therefore I've felt this way a lot longer than just 3 years.  The TV, music, fashion, and RR business were almost all awful, IMHO.  Not much you can say can change my mind about that.  I know it wasn't all bad, but neither were the 1930's.  I still don't want to model either decade.

If you lived the '70's, then you have my sympathies!    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%27s  How big were your bell bottoms? 

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************

[wm3798]

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

[AntonioFP45]

For the record I was born in 1974.  Obviously I grew up in the 80s.  But my earliest (and therefore most profoundly formational) memories would have ben in the 1978-1982 era.  I remember clearly the East Broad Top Winter Spectacular in 1978 (the 4-year-old me appears with my dad and older brother in a Green Frog movie by Emory Gulash during a very snowy runby).

I vaguely remember GG1s in black.  I remember riding the Amtrak Broadway Limited.  I remember mostly blue, but a little black Conrail.

Trains of my youth?  Maybe that's a stretch.  I wasn't quite 2 when Conrail was born.  But I associate memories of the late 70s with my now deceased grandparents whom we would visit in Lancaster several times a year, sometimes by rail, but always with a hearty helping of railfanning.

EDIT:  Paul, once again, your objection has been noted...  and overruled!

[Dave Vollmer]

For the record I was born in 1974.  Obviously I grew up in the 80s.  But my earliest (and therefore most profoundly formational) memories would have ben in the 1978-1982 era.  I remember clearly the East Broad Top Winter Spectacular in 1978 (the 4-year-old me appears with my dad and older brother in a Green Frog movie by Emory Gulash during a very snowy runby).

I vaguely remember GG1s in black.  I remember riding the Amtrak Broadway Limited.  I remember mostly blue, but a little black Conrail.

Trains of my youth?  Maybe that's a stretch.  I wasn't quite 2 when Conrail was born.  But I associate memories of the late 70s with my now deceased grandparents whom we would visit in Lancaster several times a year, sometimes by rail, but always with a hearty helping of railfanning.

EDIT:  Paul, once again, your objection has been noted...  and overruled!

[AntonioFP45]

Good grief, Paul. 

I have a lot of respect for you but man.........I'm amazed that you comment so negatively on an era that you didn't really live and interact with. Paul, I respected your earlier posts, but your "slant" sounds totally depressing......not the 1970s.  

Everything was depressing?  To you, definetly, but to many of us that LIVED IT have a totally different view.  I remember enjoying the Doobie Brothers, Jackson 5, Seals & Croft, KC, Jim Croce, and Isaac Hayes.  Also enjoyed tv shows like Starsky & Hutch, Mod Squad, Welcome Back Kotter, Good Times, Captain Kangaroo, SWAT, All in The Family, the Six Million Dollar Man, Shazam, and The Flip Wilson Show. 

Trains? The Southern Crescent was still run by "Southern" and the Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and Champion, under Amtrak's banner, were clean trains run by streamliner era crews that still cared.  Santa Fe "F-units" were still providing power on Amtraks "Chief" series trains.

Ah, yeah.......not all was depressing, hum-drum, and doom&gloom as you have been pointing out for the past 3 years.  Certainly was a fun time for me. 

Bad times.......for some.  But great times and memories for many of us that choose to model this time period.  You were born in 1975.  You certainly missed out on some cool stuff (plenty of E units, Alcos, Fairbanks Morses, Baldwins, and more passenger trains than today. 

 My sympathies to you.

[Paul3]

wm3798,
Not all those FA's on the LIRR were from the WM.    The NH also had a pair of those (namely, ex-NH's 0401 and 0428) which are now at the Rail Museum of New England and the Danbury Railroad Museum, respectively.

Dave V.,
I hear what you're sayin' and all about modeling what you grew up with and all, but to me it was a boring time (I was born in '75, so the early 1980's 'til the early 1990's for me).  Everything was the same between Boston and Providence: F40PH's in either Amtrak or MBTA colors, & B23-7's in Conrail blue.  Equipment consisted of Amtubes and Bombardier-type coaches.  Ho-hum.  Oh sure, there were some FP10's around in MBTA colors, some Boise Budds, and other oddballs around.  But what I remember are F40PH's and B23-7's.

If I wanted to model modern operations, I'd have to electrify (not happenin'...I love electrics, but I don't want to string catenary wire on my home layout).

Another choice could be the 1970's...but everything was so depressing back then (RR's, music, fashion...ick).  For me, to model a railroad, I have to read up on the history.  I can't just go out and buy stuff without learning more about it.  I don't want to "live" in the 1970's (gas lines, stagflation, etc.) on my layout.  I'd rather go back even further...tho' even the 1960's were not something I want to model much of, either.

Nope, I try to stay in the 1950's with occasional diversions into the 1940's (and sometimes, the 1920's).  I don't do much in the 1930's for mostly the same reasons why I don't want to model the 1970's...bad times.

I can't understand why folks want to spend their hard earned money on modeling the sad times (paging Mr. Sellios)...but then I can't understand why folks watch "reality" TV, either.  Oh, well. 

Paul A. Cutler III
************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
************