Antonio,The 1970's were something we made fun of in the 1980's and 1990's. Therefore I've felt this way a lot longer than just 3 years. The TV, music, fashion, and RR business were almost all awful, IMHO. Not much you can say can change my mind about that. I know it wasn't all bad, but neither were the 1930's. I still don't want to model either decade.
If you lived the '70's, then you have my sympathies! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%27s How big were your bell bottoms?
Paul A. Cutler III
Yes, Paul I understand. No, I'm not going to change your mind or am going to try. Just trying to open your eyes or mind a bit. Funny, it's just as today, many of us make fun of the 1980s (I sure do!). Flat top and mohawk hair styles, awful music (the song "Jack & Diane" comes to mind), too many bleeding heart chick flick and corn ball movies.
Sympathies? I forgot to mention.........it was the 70s when I got my first of several CAB RIDES! It was also the era of the railfan friendly SCL where you could walk into a number of yards in Florida and be greeted with a friendly "Hi there". Wasn't just me. I spoke to railfans that got and photographed their cab rides on other roads. Too cool! That steadily disappeared in the 1980s (along with cabooses) as many of the friendly, WWII-era railroaders were quickly retiring and a much sterner, liability-worried generation of railroaders were taking over.
Nope, no need for sympathy, but thanks. As I stated, it's you "younger guys" that by no fault of your own, missed out on a lot of fun.
BTW: Bell bottoms? Hmmmmm; that was actually in fashion only a few years, then it went to straight leg. My jeans pretty much resembled today's and my hair was almost always cut short. Be careful with Wikipedia as it's been documented more than once that quite a bit of info found on the website is inaccurate.
Peace
"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"
It's nice when you can find a "niche" community. In this case it's N scalers modeling northeastern roads. I've been running with the PRR crowd for a while, but it's nice to expand my horizons a bit.
Seems the idea of adding an early Conrail era to my layout has gotten me completely re-energized in the hobby.
The downside is I'm a few short weeks away from packing up my layout in preperation for a house sale and move...
Nevertheless, I'll have this very small layout for a long time (probably the next 8 years until I can reach military retirement), meaning it would be with me for a full decade (having been constructed in 2006). This is a great way to keep that little 3' by 6'8" piece of Styrofoam real estsate interesting for 10 years.
Two sets of lineside structures (one set well-maintained with PRR signage, the other weatherbeaten or abandoned with PC signage) and two sets of automobiles would allow me to essentially operate two layouts, one at a time.
Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.
Stopped at the LHS on the way home from work today and bought myself this guy right here:
Nice one, Dave.
BTW: Don't forget that even after the Conrail creation, a number of ex-NYC cabooses in the jade green scheme lingered on for a couple of years.
I grew up during the 70's, too, so there are lot's of family pictures with the avocado green striped sofa, the Bicentennial-themed wallpaper, the basement clubroom with the Scan furniture (Remember Scan? It was Ikea before Ikea was...)
I learned how to parallel park in a Dodge Monaco... Not unlike docking a ship. And I recall the blood in the streets when gasoline went from 29 cents a gallon to 55.
My brother is three years older, so he got swept up in the disco era... I laid low until the Ramones, Devo and the B-52's hit the scene... No Jack and Diane for me, either, thank you very much.
The most garish and unpleasant icon of the decade for me, though, was this...
I mean, my GAWD, what were they thinking?!? I'll take a beat up old PC paint out any day!
Lee
Route of the Alpha Jets www.wmrywesternlines.net
Antonio,When the PC took over the NH, the PC "bulls" (RR police) started to chase off railfans in former NH territory where before, it was not a problem.
The NH was active in preserving their own history...the PC cut it up for scrap and threw it all in the dumpster in the 1970's. Know why there are no preserved DL109's anywhere? You can thank the PC for that.
Go back and read Trains mag from the 1970's. It wasn't a friendly time in the northeast on the RR's. Tough times.
Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
For clarification (this is an edited post):
I started this thread to explore:
1. Adding another era to make my layout more interesting
2. The attraction to the trains of one's formative years
3. The modeling possibilities open to an early Conrail modeler (i.e., locos in 7 paint schemes, etc.)
The purpose was not to:
1. Ask anyone's permission.
2. Debate the merits/demerits of PC and how the latter should preclude anyone from wanting to model it.
So, Paul, again... Your objection has been noted. And overruled. I'm modeling Conrail and late PC. My wife may have soemthing to say about it, but alas, you don't!
Dave V.,1). You can buy jade green 'till the cows come home, paint GG-1's bright pink, or pretend the PC never died. It makes no difference to me. It's not what I would do, but that's my call.
2). So far, all I've said is that the PC should never have happened (which you agreed with), that there should have been two "Conrails" roughly along the lines of NYC and PRR (as in today), that my youth would be boring to model for me, that I find the 1970's depressing and I won't model that era, and that the PC was not exactly railfan friendly.
3). Not to put to fine a point on it, but at no point did I "object" to whatever you wanted to model, therefore there's nothing to be "noted", and nothing to be "overruled". Please don't put words in my mouth...I get into enough trouble with the things I actually do say. Thanks.
Paul,
Resistance is futile... See?
I guess my point of contention is that if you feel so negatively about it, why even bother to comment? That's the issue that comes up with WPF. I'm surprised you'd even stop by a thread marked "Penn Central." Were I you I'd probably have just driven past. But, as you pointed out, you're not. I'm excited about all of this, so I'm not looking for a downer.
My interest in all of this lies primarily in the very interesting equipment and weathering involved. People don't talk too fondly of the Depression, either, do they? Yet many people really enjoy modeling the 30s (i.e., George Sellios and countless narrow gaugers).
I can't really say I remember the 70s as well as I'd like (again, having been born in '74)... Maybe it's because I viewed them with the wonder of a child, whereby any train, no matter how dilapidated or defiled by peeling PC logos, seemed like an awesome machine to a very young me.
SpaceMouse wrote: Tom,I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know.
Tom,
I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know.
Chip--
That's cool--that's somewhere around the builder's date of both my C-48 Consol and T-31 Ten-Wheeler, and they're both still doing yeoman local service. Just put a diamond stack on one of yours so we can film a train robbery, LOL! Right now I'm trying to adapt some WS figures to look somewhat like a Hollywood production crew so I can have an excuse to run my back-dated Roundhouse 2-8-0 and some turn-of the 20th century freight cars. After all, Hollywood filmed a lot of westerns on the "Rio Grande". Might as well film a few on mine.
Hey, it all works, LOL!
Tom
Tom View my layout photos! http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm310/TWhite-014/Rio%20Grande%20Yuba%20River%20Sub One can NEVER have too many Articulateds!
Dave Vollmer wrote: Paul3 wrote: Dave V.,1). You can buy jade green 'till the cows come home, paint GG-1's bright pink, or pretend the PC never died. It makes no difference to me. It's not what I would do, but that's my call.2). So far, all I've said is that the PC should never have happened (which you agreed with), that there should have been two "Conrails" roughly along the lines of NYC and PRR (as in today), that my youth would be boring to model for me, that I find the 1970's depressing and I won't model that era, and that the PC was not exactly railfan friendly.3). Not to put to fine a point on it, but at no point did I "object" to whatever you wanted to model, therefore there's nothing to be "noted", and nothing to be "overruled". Please don't put words in my mouth...I get into enough trouble with the things I actually do say. Thanks.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************Okay, fine...But if you despise PC and the 70s so much, I guess I'm not sure why you're participating in this thread. 'Cause you're being kind of a downer whether you mean to be or not.I'm excited about this transition for me. If you're not, that's your call. But please don't try to bring my thread down. You're quite free to start your own.
Paul3 wrote: Dave V.,1). You can buy jade green 'till the cows come home, paint GG-1's bright pink, or pretend the PC never died. It makes no difference to me. It's not what I would do, but that's my call.2). So far, all I've said is that the PC should never have happened (which you agreed with), that there should have been two "Conrails" roughly along the lines of NYC and PRR (as in today), that my youth would be boring to model for me, that I find the 1970's depressing and I won't model that era, and that the PC was not exactly railfan friendly.3). Not to put to fine a point on it, but at no point did I "object" to whatever you wanted to model, therefore there's nothing to be "noted", and nothing to be "overruled". Please don't put words in my mouth...I get into enough trouble with the things I actually do say. Thanks.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Okay, fine...
But if you despise PC and the 70s so much, I guess I'm not sure why you're participating in this thread. 'Cause you're being kind of a downer whether you mean to be or not.
I'm excited about this transition for me. If you're not, that's your call. But please don't try to bring my thread down. You're quite free to start your own.
Dave--
Let me jump in here if I might--if we were to model nothing but railroads at the height of their historical prosperity, a lot of us would probably all be modeling nothing but the 1890's or the 1920's. Your decision to model a railroad that you remember growing up with is just fine in my book. Okay, let me get this out of the way right now--perhaps it was not the most prosperous time for the era you're choosing, but it's WHAT YOU REMEMBER.
I'm modeling WWII era. If I had chosen to model the Rio Grande ten or fifteen years earlier, I'd be modeling a railroad that was going in and out of recievership so fast you couldn't keep up with it. Sub-par trackage, locomotives too heavy for a lot of the mainline, really LOCAL traffic--a railroad that was still paying off WP debts--not a pretty sight at all. But I model WWII, because that's the era that I remember, and the tracks were being replaced as fast as they could, the rails were so shiny you had to blink if the sun was at the right angle, and a train crashing by every fifteen minutes.
I think we're COMFORTABLE modeling what we remember, whether it's the 'forties, 'eighties, or five years ago. It's probably what made the initial impression to cause us to BECOME model railroaders. So we can capture (or re-capture) that part of wonder. And when it really comes down to it, historically it doesn't really matter the financial condition of the road we choose to model.
Despite my somewhat facietous first post (which I meant in good humor) I'm really in YOUR camp, my friend! Go for it! Your terrific modeling skills will win out in the end, anyway.
I re-worded that post to be a little more diplomatic. That first draft was a little harsh to Paul. I know he feels strongly about his viewpoint. However...
When I get down to it I guess I don't hate any railroad so much that I'd start talking it down in someone else's thread. Sure, I kid about CSX, but I'm not out to get any thread about it.
Anyway, this is my fun thread about my new modeling direction. Anyone not holding a ticket to come along with me can get off at the next stop!
Dave Vollmer wrote: Tom,I re-worded that post to be a little more diplomatic. That first draft was a little harsh to Paul. I know he feels strongly about his viewpoint. However...When I get down to it I guess I don't hate any railroad so much that I'd start talking it down in someone else's thread. Sure, I kid about CSX, but I'm not out to get any thread about it.Anyway, this is my fun thread about my new modeling direction. Anyone not holding a ticket to come along with me can get off at the next stop!
Tickets all punched and I'm ready for the ride. Go for it!
Enjoy it! My first N scale engine was a PC GP30 when I was a teen. Dave - born in 74 - oy - that was the year I joined the Air Force
I am re-thinking the make up of my new layout - HO Reading mid-70's. I also have EL RS2, LV RS18 and such so there may be some BLUE engines sneaking in some time soon.
Go Air Force!
Dave V.,If you don't want public comments on your thoughts, don't post them on a public forum.
twhite wrote: SpaceMouse wrote: Tom,I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know. Chip--That's cool--that's somewhere around the builder's date of both my C-48 Consol and T-31 Ten-Wheeler, and they're both still doing yeoman local service. Just put a diamond stack on one of yours so we can film a train robbery, LOL! Right now I'm trying to adapt some WS figures to look somewhat like a Hollywood production crew so I can have an excuse to run my back-dated Roundhouse 2-8-0 and some turn-of the 20th century freight cars. After all, Hollywood filmed a lot of westerns on the "Rio Grande". Might as well film a few on mine. Hey, it all works, LOL!Tom
I know they did a lot of filming in your area--just south of your layout I believe--big tourist trap now--I forget the name. It wouldn't be stretch to yank them north a little.
Since I hijacked this thread earlier, I got possession of my basement. That means I can go back to my original dream of building the California Western in 1917. It means the demise of the Rock Ridge and Train City, I'm afraid.
Chip
Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.
Paul3 wrote: Dave V.,If you don't want public comments on your thoughts, don't post them on a public forum.Paul A. Cutler III************Weather Or No Go New Haven************
Honestly, man, the comment about "having a ticket to come along" was a joke, per the smiley emoticon.
I don't mind debate, but it's just frustrating that whenever the topic of PRR or PC comes up, you come in with the negative vibes. I know where you stand on PC and people who talk about how great PRR was. But, that's your opinion to which you're entitled.
Think about it this way; it's like you're talking smack about my favorite team. You have every right to do so, but you may expect I won't be all that happy with it.
But you're right... Because I posted it, you have every right to say what you need to.
I'm willing to negotiate a cease-fire if you are...
I look at it this way... You're at a bus stop in Harrisburg. A bus pulls up, and the sign board says "Pittsburgh", but you want to go to Philadelphia. So you get on the bus to Pittsburgh, and then complain that you're not going to Philadelphia for the whole trip.
Or you're on the Atlas Forum, which has separate rooms for HO and N scale. You're an HO guy, so you spend all your time on the N forum complaining about N scale.
Choose your battles.
On a lighter note...
Here's my new Conrail cabin in service on the PRR Middle Division:
Dave Vollmer wrote: On a lighter note...Here's my new Conrail cabin in service on the PRR Middle Division:
"Hey george, can we see over the Autoracks up front yet?"
"Uh... yeah..."
-Morgan
Well, Dave, as they say... "It's Your Railroad, Run What You Want!"
You better check that maintenance stencil, though... I think one of the dates is wrong for that road number.
Well, I took a shot at weathering that PC boxcar... ...and destroyed it.
I tried the Tom Mann white wash technique to fade the paint, only I put it on too thick. It looked like a frosted cake. I tried to remove the paint gently with some brush cleaner, with predictable results. The factory paint lifted right off.
I'm very, very, very angry right now.
EDIT:
I was using thinned PolyScale...
It's not like I've never weathered before. But I guess if it's a new technique I should try it out on a junk shell.
No way in heck I'm touching that Conrail cabin anytime soon.
Now...
My wife's not happy because my reaction was "buy another one." Even though it's a little off-prototype, the combo of white and black, NYC and PC-style lettering is very cool.
Turns out I have a Paypal balance due to some N scale boxes I sold, so I ordered a new one from N Scale Supply along with a Trainman Railbox car.
Huh-huh... I think I'll use a much more conservative, reversable technique on the next one!
Dave, if the factory paint lifted right off as you say, it sounds like you're headed in the right direction just the same. Certainly that would be the effect of rust eating away with a bit different paint ? Any chance you can post a pic or two to have others give ideas on what to do next ?
Ooooo, no... It looks horrible. I ended up with the white-wash half-stripped, and it just looks horrific.
Trust me, I know a junker when I see it.
I appreciate the offer for help. But this guy's out to pasture. Besides, I have a new one on the way (I have this bad habit of re-ordering stuff right away after I mess it up)...
The good news is, I bnow have a carcass to prectice on!
Or... better yet, I'll finish stripping off the bad wash, and then turn the car into a Conrail paint-out. Brilliant!
I need to get a camera and post some pics of my early "weathering" attempts. Im sure yours isnt that bad=)
That being said, a nice, easy way to get started in weathering is to do some very simple light drybrushing. Easy to learn and you can apply as much grime or as little as you like. \
Try it on some cheapies and get a feel for it. Light grey can look like dust, red on roof panels to simulate rust. You can do an awful lot with just drybrush. Still my most used weathering technique.
Dave Vollmer wrote:Huh-huh... I think I'll use a much more conservative, reversable technique on the next one!
A blowtorch?
Maybe it's a sign Dave -- get out of the PC era while you still can . Maybe you should go for the factory paint being stripped to bare (rusty) metal. Or maybe the repair guys replaced a ruined panel with a sheet of galvanized steel as a quick 'n dirty temp fix til the car meets with the scrapper's torch (say someone really botched loading it with a forklift or something).
-Dan
Builder of Bowser steam! Railimages Site
NeO6874 wrote: Maybe it's a sign Dave...
Maybe it's a sign Dave...
That was my FIRST thought!
Naw, just means I need to work on my technique. I have a couple of old Atlas and MP boxcars(foobie cars in foobie schemes I have no intention of running) who are about to donate their bodies to art!
This picture popped up on "newest" when I veiwed RP. This is what your going for Dave, right?
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=231210&nseq=29
I hope you next try at weathering the PC boxcar will work out this time. can't wait to see pictures.
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/JR7582 My Flickr Photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wcfan/