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I've been Penn-Centralized!

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Posted by twhite on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 2:33 PM

Dave---WHOA!!!

After picking myself up off of the floor at your post, I just hope you 'preserve' those nifty N-scale Pennsy steamers of yours and have a LOT of fan trips for those N-scale railfans on your layout. 

For myself, I couldn't be more shocked than if I had suddenly decided to model Union Pacific, LOL!Shock [:O]

TomBlush [:I]

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 2:37 PM

...oh boy...

Guys, I wasn't really looking for permission, nor was I trying to condone the massive failures in foresight, givernment regulation, and management that led to the Penn Central disaster, nor am I saying I'm happy that Bruswick Green was replaced by Conrail Blue.

No...  My point in all this is to explore my recent nostalgia for my youth.  Recently I find myself listening occasionally to music from the late 70s/early 80s (except disco, although my wife loves disco - ack!).  I think it's because I now have children that age, and I remember what it was like for me then.  We even bought them some DVDs of that 70s PBS childrens' show The Electric Company.  Talk about retro!

So PC/Conrail and Amtrak, as well as a Long Island Rail Road running FAs (that's right, FAs!) and LIRR freight service complete with yellow and orange cabins are the trains of my youth.

Would I rather have memories of triple-headed K4s on a 4-track main?  You bet!  But I don't.

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 2:39 PM
 twhite wrote:

Dave---WHOA!!!

After picking myself up off of the floor at your post, I just hope you 'preserve' those nifty N-scale Pennsy steamers of yours and have a LOT of fan trips for those N-scale railfans on your layout. 

For myself, I couldn't be more shocked than if I had suddenly decided to model Union Pacific, LOL!Shock [:O]

TomBlush [:I]

Tom,

Don't worry!  The idea is to eventually have two seperate rosters.  The PRR right-of-way remained pretty much the same until the early 80s when track reductions and signal upgrades were done (after Conrail started making money).  That means the same layout can host two eras.

I figure a few interchangeable buildings and a seperate set of autos, and I have pretty much 2 layouts in one.

Nope, the Penny's not going away.  But I want to keep my little layout interesting.  Alternating eras every few weeks ought to do that nicely!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by twhite on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 2:55 PM

Dave--

Believe me, friend, if ANYONE understands Nostalgia, it's me!   Actually, I broke down and got a set of Rio Grande F-3's last year, which absolutely STUNNED my son when he came down over Christmas.  He just stared at them, then at me, then back to them and I said, "Hey, kiddo, I WAS there, remember?  I was sixteen when Rio Grande and Espee ran their last steamers." 

He just grinned and said, "Oh.  Actually, I didn't think you REMEMBERED diesels, Dad."

Whatever that means, LOL!

Tom

 

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Posted by NittanyLion on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:04 PM

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
I figure a few interchangeable buildings and a seperate set of autos, and I have pretty much 2 layouts in one.

Then that neat little station of yours will have to go from this:

To this:

The horror of it (or if you're a youngster like me the neutral feeling of it) 

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Posted by wm3798 on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:14 PM

You know where those LIRR FA's came from, don't you...

Mmm-hmmm... That's Right...  WM sold theirs back to GE to be converted into power cabs for the Long Island.  302 is sitting in the weeds in upstate NY right now, waiting for CP Rail and CSX to bring her home to WM Country for cosmetic restoration...

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:16 PM
 wm3798 wrote:

You know where those LIRR FA's came from, don't you...

Ya know, they mention that in this month's Trains.  Had to buy it for the Strasburg article, of course!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:17 PM

Tom,

This is only a minor hijack of a thread, but just thought I'd warn you that it looks like the Rock Ridge Branch of the SP just might be winding up the Yuba River. Kindly let me know if you see any slightly out of time phase trains running across your layout.

Please return to your regularly schedule outrage at Dave's delirium.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by V&AL on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:24 PM

ahh nostalgia....

 (Disclamer: I'm 25, I was born in 1983, the same year the MP and WP dissapeared under Monster Pacific forever)

 Right now I have 2 MP diesels pulling a 3 car stack train on my Fred's loco module.  I remember the "blue diesel trains" switching the GMAC auto unloading facility by my house.  (I was 3 at the time) Then the "yellow diesel trains" started showing up... I was able to put 2 and 2 together. I remember asking my dad (yes at age 3) "Did the yellow train company (UP) take over the blue train company (MP)??

 

ahhh the good ol' days.

Virginia and Alleghenny Railroad Texas and Gulf Coast Railroad (The Dixie Road) PACE: Pittsburgh Area Commuter Express Texas Express
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Posted by Flashwave on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:36 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 twhite wrote:

Dave---WHOA!!!

After picking myself up off of the floor at your post, I just hope you 'preserve' those nifty N-scale Pennsy steamers of yours and have a LOT of fan trips for those N-scale railfans on your layout. 

For myself, I couldn't be more shocked than if I had suddenly decided to model Union Pacific, LOL!Shock [:O]

TomBlush [:I]

Tom,

Don't worry!  The idea is to eventually have two seperate rosters.  The PRR right-of-way remained pretty much the same until the early 80s when track reductions and signal upgrades were done (after Conrail started making money).  That means the same layout can host two eras.

I figure a few interchangeable buildings and a seperate set of autos, and I have pretty much 2 layouts in one.

Nope, the Penny's not going away.  But I want to keep my little layout interesting.  Alternating eras every few weeks ought to do that nicely!

get out of my head. I've been thinking the same idea. Tell us how it goes

-Morgan

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Posted by dmitzel on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 3:57 PM

I miss PC, for the fact that Conrail Day spelled the end of active rail in my hometown. No CR trains ever moved through town, and the abandoned rail was pulled up by '79. GTW didn't make it much farther, only lasting until '83.

Now it's just bike paths and weeds where an active junction once stood. Today, if I want to see any trains, it's 15 miles north by highway to watch NAFTA traffic on CN's Flint Sub. The irony is apparent while paralleling the old NYC grade north on State Hwy. 24 to Lapeer.

With gas prices the way they are, I don't get out railfanning like I used to during the '90s era of cheap oil. Guess walking or riding the rail trail is healthier for me anyway.

D.M. Mitzel Div. 8-NCR-NMRA Oxford, Mich. USA
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Posted by Tjsingle on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 4:57 PM
 NittanyLion wrote:

 Dave Vollmer wrote:
I figure a few interchangeable buildings and a seperate set of autos, and I have pretty much 2 layouts in one.

Then that neat little station of yours will have to go from this:

To this:

The horror of it (or if you're a youngster like me the neutral feeling of it) 

you see that alot in old coal/steel towns in Pennsylvania, its pretty sad. Also in Johnstown PA i saw a local with 2 ex conrail SD60I's pretty sad, once road diesels reduced to NS local power :(

Tjsingle

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Posted by twhite on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 5:52 PM
 SpaceMouse wrote:

Tom,

This is only a minor hijack of a thread, but just thought I'd warn you that it looks like the Rock Ridge Branch of the SP just might be winding up the Yuba River. Kindly let me know if you see any slightly out of time phase trains running across your layout.

Please return to your regularly schedule outrage at Dave's delirium.

 

Chip--

Let's see--1880's, right?  If they suddenly appear near Sierra City, I'll just tell the passengers on the Yuba River Express that we loan the trackage out to movie trains on a regular basis, just like the Sierra Railway, LOL!Evil [}:)]  Besides, SP already has trackage rights on the Sub, so you're welcome up the canyon anytime, Chip!Big Smile [:D]

Tom

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Posted by Paul3 on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 9:33 PM

wm3798,
Not all those FA's on the LIRR were from the WM.  Wink [;)]  The NH also had a pair of those (namely, ex-NH's 0401 and 0428) which are now at the Rail Museum of New England and the Danbury Railroad Museum, respectively.

Dave V.,
I hear what you're sayin' and all about modeling what you grew up with and all, but to me it was a boring time (I was born in '75, so the early 1980's 'til the early 1990's for me).  Everything was the same between Boston and Providence: F40PH's in either Amtrak or MBTA colors, & B23-7's in Conrail blue.  Equipment consisted of Amtubes and Bombardier-type coaches.  Ho-hum.  Oh sure, there were some FP10's around in MBTA colors, some Boise Budds, and other oddballs around.  But what I remember are F40PH's and B23-7's.

If I wanted to model modern operations, I'd have to electrify (not happenin'...I love electrics, but I don't want to string catenary wire on my home layout).

Another choice could be the 1970's...but everything was so depressing back then (RR's, music, fashion...ick).  For me, to model a railroad, I have to read up on the history.  I can't just go out and buy stuff without learning more about it.  I don't want to "live" in the 1970's (gas lines, stagflation, etc.) on my layout.  I'd rather go back even further...tho' even the 1960's were not something I want to model much of, either.

Nope, I try to stay in the 1950's with occasional diversions into the 1940's (and sometimes, the 1920's).  I don't do much in the 1930's for mostly the same reasons why I don't want to model the 1970's...bad times.

I can't understand why folks want to spend their hard earned money on modeling the sad times (paging Mr. Sellios)...but then I can't understand why folks watch "reality" TV, either.  Oh, well.  Big Smile [:D]

Paul A. Cutler III
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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:07 PM

Good grief, Paul. 

I have a lot of respect for you but man.........I'm amazed that you comment so negatively on an era that you didn't really live and interact with. Paul, I respected your earlier posts, but your "slant" sounds totally depressing......not the 1970s.  

Everything was depressing?  To you, definetly, but to many of us that LIVED IT have a totally different view.  I remember enjoying the Doobie Brothers, Jackson 5, Seals & Croft, KC, Jim Croce, and Isaac Hayes.  Also enjoyed tv shows like Starsky & Hutch, Mod Squad, Welcome Back Kotter, Good Times, Captain Kangaroo, SWAT, All in The Family, the Six Million Dollar Man, Shazam, and The Flip Wilson Show. 

Trains? The Southern Crescent was still run by "Southern" and the Silver Star, Silver Meteor, and Champion, under Amtrak's banner, were clean trains run by streamliner era crews that still cared.  Santa Fe "F-units" were still providing power on Amtraks "Chief" series trains.

Ah, yeah.......not all was depressing, hum-drum, and doom&gloom as you have been pointing out for the past 3 years.  Certainly was a fun time for me. 

Bad times.......for some.  But great times and memories for many of us that choose to model this time period.  You were born in 1975.  You certainly missed out on some cool stuff (plenty of E units, Alcos, Fairbanks Morses, Baldwins, and more passenger trains than today. 

 My sympathies to you.Wink [;)]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:17 PM

For the record I was born in 1974.  Obviously I grew up in the 80s.  But my earliest (and therefore most profoundly formational) memories would have ben in the 1978-1982 era.  I remember clearly the East Broad Top Winter Spectacular in 1978 (the 4-year-old me appears with my dad and older brother in a Green Frog movie by Emory Gulash during a very snowy runby).

I vaguely remember GG1s in black.  I remember riding the Amtrak Broadway Limited.  I remember mostly blue, but a little black Conrail.

Trains of my youth?  Maybe that's a stretch.  I wasn't quite 2 when Conrail was born.  But I associate memories of the late 70s with my now deceased grandparents whom we would visit in Lancaster several times a year, sometimes by rail, but always with a hearty helping of railfanning.

EDIT:  Paul, once again, your objection has been noted...  and overruled!Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by AntonioFP45 on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 10:25 PM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:

For the record I was born in 1974.  Obviously I grew up in the 80s.  But my earliest (and therefore most profoundly formational) memories would have ben in the 1978-1982 era.  I remember clearly the East Broad Top Winter Spectacular in 1978 (the 4-year-old me appears with my dad and older brother in a Green Frog movie by Emory Gulash during a very snowy runby).

I vaguely remember GG1s in black.  I remember riding the Amtrak Broadway Limited.  I remember mostly blue, but a little black Conrail.

Trains of my youth?  Maybe that's a stretch.  I wasn't quite 2 when Conrail was born.  But I associate memories of the late 70s with my now deceased grandparents whom we would visit in Lancaster several times a year, sometimes by rail, but always with a hearty helping of railfanning.

EDIT:  Paul, once again, your objection has been noted...  and overruled!Smile,Wink, & Grin [swg]

Sign - Ditto [#ditto]Sign - Ditto [#ditto]Thumbs Up [tup]

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


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Posted by wm3798 on Wednesday, April 9, 2008 11:48 PM

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by Paul3 on Thursday, April 10, 2008 12:42 AM

Antonio,
The 1970's were something we made fun of in the 1980's and 1990's.  Tongue [:P]  Therefore I've felt this way a lot longer than just 3 years.  The TV, music, fashion, and RR business were almost all awful, IMHO.  Not much you can say can change my mind about that.  I know it wasn't all bad, but neither were the 1930's.  I still don't want to model either decade.

If you lived the '70's, then you have my sympathies!  Big Smile [:D]  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1970%27s  How big were your bell bottoms?  Laugh [(-D]

Paul A. Cutler III
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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:16 AM

Tom,

I'm doing 1909 now. It has been a few years you know.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:19 AM

What's all this fuss about Dave being pen centric? If a man born into the age of computers wants to model the limitations of ink, then let him. He knows the power of word processing but chooses going back to the roots, back to the days of John Quincy Adams and the session of Congress that over ran so long that they had to provide special funding for a home for 40 unwed pregnant women left in the wake, then let him.

I prefer a pencil myself because you can erase it and you don't have to wad up the paper and throw it away when you want to make a change. Besides all the extra waste of time it's a waste of trees. But then again if the paper gets rained on or you're crying tears because some company with the world's ugliest paint scheme buys up all the bloody noses and black widows and paints them like puke, the ink won't run.

And it's not like you can't get pens in different colors. You can get ink in black or blue or red like you got scribbled all over your paper when you turned in your excellent historical treatise on the merger of the CP and the SP after the meeting with the UP in UT to the home ec teacher.  

So when you start to ridicule Dave for choosing the PEN, remember the Pen was the Standard...

Huh? What? Penn Central? Spell it P-E-N-N  C-E-N-T-R-A-L  

uh, never mind 

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by AltoonaRailroader on Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:50 AM
 Tjsingle wrote:
 jep1267 wrote:
 SteamFreak wrote:
 Just remember to make your rails sag at the joints, toss litter everywhere, and cover everything with a healthy layer of Woodland Scenics Bag O' Grime.

Ahhhhhh! Woodland Scenics Bag-o-Grime Laugh [(-D] LOL I gotta get me some of that.

 

For CSX maybe

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRraRJB1d7Y

Conrail for ever

Tjsingle

Holy #$@#, what would have done that without completely trashing the ties and plates around it?  That would have had to been pretty hot!!!! Shock [:O]

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Posted by Dave Vollmer on Thursday, April 10, 2008 6:59 AM
 wm3798 wrote:

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

Oooo, that's hot!!!

Modeling the Rio Grande Southern First District circa 1938-1946 in HOn3.

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:21 AM
 Dave Vollmer wrote:
 wm3798 wrote:

How about a nice warm cup of Conrail?

Just a little something to tempt you, there Dave...  Courtesy of your good friends from You Know Where...

Lee 

Oooo, that's hot!!!

That's actually quite sweet. No one ever made me a movie.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by wm3798 on Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:39 AM

After this one, you may not want us to make a movie for you...

Big Smile [:D]

Cecil B. Dimented 

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 7:58 AM
 wm3798 wrote:

After this one, you may not want us to make a movie for you...

Big Smile [:D]

Cecil B. Dimented 

Let me get this straight. You make a lovey-dovey movie for Dave, but if you made one for me it would be mean and spiteful?

I guess that shows me for making fun of those itty-bitty trains.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by wm3798 on Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:20 AM

...Just don't miss Railfest, and you'll be fine...Evil [}:)]

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:34 AM
 wm3798 wrote:

...Just don't miss Railfest, and you'll be fine...Evil [}:)]

Lee 

When is it this year? I could bring the kid.

(Once at the curve we had been waiting about an hour for the first train. Pretty rare actually. Finally a MOW GMC pick-up truck came around the curve and honed his horn. My son yells, "I want my money back.")

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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Posted by wm3798 on Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:52 AM

I'll have to double check, but I think it's July 18-19-20.  We usually have a meet up of a bunch of guys from The Railwire forum, and the CR Historical Society. 

Was that MOW truck incident 2 years ago?  If so, I was probably there with my family, too.  There was heat kink down on the mountain someplace. 

I explained to my wife that it's just like a model railroad... when you bring someone by to watch the trains run, the gremlins take over!

Lee 

Route of the Alpha Jets  www.wmrywesternlines.net

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Posted by SpaceMouse on Thursday, April 10, 2008 8:57 AM
 wm3798 wrote:

I'll have to double check, but I think it's July 18-19-20.  We usually have a meet up of a bunch of guys from The Railwire forum, and the CR Historical Society. 

Was that MOW truck incident 2 years ago?  If so, I was probably there with my family, too.  There was heat kink down on the mountain someplace. 

I explained to my wife that it's just like a model railroad... when you bring someone by to watch the trains run, the gremlins take over!

Lee 

It was two years ago.

If that is the weekend, I think I can make it. I'll just be back from vacation and my son will be back from a month-long whirlwind US tour of the South US.

Chip

Building the Rock Ridge Railroad with the slowest construction crew west of the Pecos.

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